• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue

Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Fire

Member
I think that Drowzee guy is a troll. Everytime i see some of his posts it's some negative bullshit and his arguments don't even make sense.

Zou is easily in my top 3 arcs. It was just magical. Great and different narrative, incredible moments (raizo is safe) and a HUGE load of relevant information. Also the atmosphere and the humour were great.

Also zou introduced the greatest character, NEKOMAMUSHI

Punk hazard is by far my least favorite arc

Whole Cake Island has been great so far
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I was really against the idea of Jinbe joining at one point. Would you believe me if I said that back in 2008 a guy I used to post with brought up this huge theory as to why Jinbe was most likely to be the next crew mate? 9 years later almost everything he said back then holds up today and and and... He gave this theory before Jinbe was actually seen on panel with Ace in Impel Down?

I think about it now and its just incredible to me. I completely look at the series entirely differently now since then. Though it took 2 years for him to convince me that Jinbe would join. Eventually I just realized everything added up way too much and I was simply biased because I thought Jinbe was ugly and too strong. I can't imagine many folks can admit they are biased and wrong. It's a tough pill to swallow.

I can find the super epic post if anyone is interested.
I bet he thought Paulie, Kaku, or (longshot) Iceberg was going to be the shipwright!
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I like this phrasing from B-Dubs because you could use it to say that the WG left the last one with the giants to protect it. I find it incredibly unlikely that these stones exist and the Admirals/Celestial Dragons don't have at least 1 of them. A quick strike by all of the Admirals would pull it off (hell, Kizaru could get rubbings really quickly if he wanted to). The WG has got to get involved in these stones somehow, but I also could see the last one on Elbaf. Combine those two and I think it works the best.

I mean, it'd depend on how willing they were to leave Marine HQ and Mariejois undefended for an extended period of time and how strong the giants on the island are. If it's anything like Amazon Lily it might not even be worth their effort to go get it, imagine having to deal with an island of warrior giants who could use haki. Even the admirals might not be enough to deal with that.

But yea, you could make the argument it's either on Mariejois or Elbaf. Personally I lean towards Elbaf because if the Marines had it there'd be some rumors about it, I doubt they could keep it a total secret.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Besides considering how Usopp dream has ties to Elbaf and such I imagine that the Strawhats would have to visit it for some reason.

Yeah that guy really doesn't know his stuff. I'd like to see him pull that at Arlong Park.

Once people get emotionally invested in something its hard for them to denounce it in any way.

I was really against the idea of Jinbe joining at one point. Would you believe me if I said that back in 2008 a guy I used to post with brought up this huge theory as to why Jinbe was most likely to be the next crew mate? 9 years later almost everything he said back then holds up today and and and... He gave this theory before Jinbe was actually seen on panel with Ace in Impel Down?

I think about it now and its just incredible to me. I completely look at the series entirely differently now since then. Though it took 2 years for him to convince me that Jinbe would join. Eventually I just realized everything added up way too much and I was simply biased because I thought Jinbe was ugly and too strong. I can't imagine many folks can admit they are biased and wrong. It's a tough pill to swallow.

I can find the super epic post if anyone is interested.

Post it.
 
This is a mirror of impel down. Impel down was a prison designed to break people with physical torture and hardship. Whole cake island is a prison designed to break people with mental torture and empty calories. In both the character at the centre is Jinbei who resists with discipline. Luffy's hunger reflects the time when Ivankov had to help his recovery.
 

NSESN

Member
It's interesting that on this food-themed island, we've seen Luffy at both his most stuffed state and at his most hungriest state.

Food for thought.

To be fair, there isn't much time that Luffy ate. He probabbly spent more time without food before. The difference now that he isn't eating by choice and not by lack of food.
 

Tizoc

Member
Hold up, so after wataer 7 the gang were supposed to go to fishman island right? But they ended up dealing with duval, then the whole thriller bark thing and then sabaody and impel down, then u had the two year skip.
How long does a log pose stay pointing to a destination for?
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Hold up, so after wataer 7 the gang were supposed to go to fishman island right? But they ended up dealing with duval, then the whole thriller bark thing and then sabaody and impel down, then u had the two year skip.
How long does a log pose stay pointing to a destination for?
It's crazy how the series took a years-long giant detour like that.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Hold up, so after wataer 7 the gang were supposed to go to fishman island right? But they ended up dealing with duval, then the whole thriller bark thing and then sabaody and impel down, then u had the two year skip.
How long does a log pose stay pointing to a destination for?

It points to an island until it's reoriented by another grand line island's magnetic field. Given Thriller Bark isn't a grand line island and Sabody isn't an island at all, there was never a chance for it to reset.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
To be fair I understand Paulie, that arc showed we need a shipwright and he was one.

He's basically a giant red herring.
Before Lucci and co. are revealed to be villains it could have been any of them.

I loved that. They said they needed a shipwright and head to an island that has a TON of quirky and battle ready shipwrights. None of them join. Instead, the would-be villain of the arc ends up being sympathetic and joins, while most of the shipwrights end up being bad guys. Paulie was even there as a red herring until Enies Lobby.

Water 7 -> Enies Lobby was such a giant roller coaster ride. Still the highlight of the entire series IMO.
 

Metal B

Member
It points to an island until it's reoriented by another grand line island's magnetic field. Given Thriller Bark isn't a grand line island and Sabody isn't an island at all, there was never a chance for it to reset.
Also Nami, who always wears the log, was send to a artificial sky-Island. That's why you have to love Oda. Sometimes he really is smart about avoiding plot-holes.
 

RomanceDawn

Member
This is Jinbe Genesis.

The first Jinbe was Brennen.exe of Arlong Park forums. A class act. Very nice guy who knows his stuff. Unlike those jerks who know their stuff.

Mega Post incoming. He first proposed this December of 2008. 2008! This was first brought up before Jinbe was actually seen on panel. Brennen was struck with the idea when Sengoku said Jinbe was being bad and got imprisoned. Then there are a few follow up posts when absolutely everyone including me was like "no way, too soon, too powerful, too ugly, to everything" so please enjoy!

Not everything holds up but you can really see how on the mark he was during a time when it just seemed absolutely impossible.

This debate goes back just short of 10 years! I'm old now!

Feel free to dip me in tar, throw feathers on me, and then light me on fire for saying this, but-- Given Jinbei's build-up over the years, his comparison in "stature" to Arlong (who we know isn't incredibly powerful), the fact that he was captured and thrown in jail, the fact that he is a fishman, the seemingly possible fact that he no longer has a crew, the fact that Luffy essentially did was Fisher Tiger did (I presume Jinbei idolized Fisher Tiger), and the high chance that Luffy will break him out of prison lead anyone to believe he might actually be the next nakama? I mean, sure, I have said in the past that a Shichibukai would overshadow Luffy's position as captain, but that was when we were talking about Hancock, who I felt had other reasons behind that. No, I am not saying JINBEI 4 NAKAMA!?!#@#?@$@BBQ!#@1!? Rather, does anyone else find it to be a possibility that given Jinbei's stance on the war, the fact that he would need to be released from the prison, the fact that the crew is still short two people, the fact that Fishman island is next, and a few other things that Jinbei might be a contender for the position?

Keep in mind I have no current "desire" for Jinbei to join (especially since he is still so mysterious), and I am not saying he should join or that it would be cool if he did. Given that, for the sake of discussion let me give the basic reasons why I considered it:
Jinbei (I assume) idolized or looked up to Fisher Tiger for who he was and what he did. Luffy just did essentially the same thing to the Tenryuubito, and would now be breaking Jinbei out of prison to save Ace and (indirectly) stop the war that Jinbei was obviously "going wild" about.
Jinbei is a Shichibukai, yes, but we do not know exactly how strong he is. The crew definitely needs more powerhouses, and a Fishman is a great choice if you ask me. Jinbei was compared (perhaps outdated and unfair) to Arlong in terms of social standing, so I am going to assume Jinbei is more like Moria/Crocodile/Hancock level strength rather than Blackbeard/Mihawk. Pure speculation, but enough to assume that he might not be much (if at all) stronger than Zoro and Sanji. In fact, I think he would be a nice addition to the top tier, having infamy similar to Zoro's "Pirate Hunter" past. And of course Sanji has something similar, being the apprentice of 'Red Leg' Zeff and having his own similar title now ('Black Leg' Sanji). Not to mention that -- while we don't really know the circumstances -- he was caught and thrown into Impel Down against his will when he went on his rampage. If he can get caught, I cannot imagine him being godly like some people make him out to be.
I assume -- due to the terms for becoming a Shichibukai for him and the splitting of Arlong and co -- that by now Jinbei has no active crew. Given that, he is essentially a one man deal, so (again) were Luffy to break him out of prison and let him know what is going on I can definitely see him (at least) helping Luffy out until the end of the arc. At the end of the arc, he would learn they were heading to Fishman Island and would probably offer up to be a guide since Hachi is injured still.
Assuming again that he assists Luffy at all, his title as Shichibukai would be stripped. Combine that with Luffy's goals, past actions, current actions, next destination, ultimate goal, and stance with the WG I can see him "looking up to" Luffy in the same way he once looked up to Fisher Tiger. Add that to his lack of crew and status, and why not!?
Jinbei must have a sad past (as a slave?), and could easily have a flashback. More Fisher Tiger anyone?
Jinbei would be another role to help complete the whole Tenryuubito ordeal. Especially since we know Hancock will need to return to her island after the "War" and would lose her position if she were spotted assisting Luffy.
Aside from the Tenryuubito issue, if Jinbei joined or helped guide the SHP's through FI, he could also be the main conflict in that arc. Some issue with the locals and who he is and such. Though I would assume he would be respected, you never know considering he "sided" with the Government for years as a Shichibukai.
Assuming Jinbei is the 'Martin Luther King' type, and thus wants to smooth things over between Human and Fishman, his dream could be to show that they can coexist together by traveling with Luffy. (A stretch, but I thought I would toss it in).

I still think that if any human has a chance of smoothing things over between any Fishman/men, it's Luffy. Not only because Luffy is who he is, but also because he immitated (well, not intentionally) Fisher Tiger by knocking the Tenryuubito down a peg or two, but also by openly opposing the WG and now infiltrating Impel Down (similar to scaling Red Line for Fisher Tiger) despite the insane odds against him. 'Course, Luffy is a dumbass and Fisher Tiger was likely a smart guy, but given the opportunity anyone can see Luffy has a heart of gol...d. I could see Jinbei befriending him for those reasons (plus Luffy freeing him from prison, plus his war-opposing notion to save Ace), and then becoming the conflict at Fisman Island because he took sides with the WG as Shichibukai and then shows up with a group of Human cronies.

I did always assume that Yosaku's statement about Jinbei's status and "letting Arlong loose" was meant to show that Jinbei forsook his crew (Arlong included) in order to gain his status with the WG. That would piss off the Fishman community (Arlong included) a good amount, and it would make perfect sense too. If the WG takes away the current leader (Jinbei, formerly Fisher Tiger) of the Fishman Pirates, who are a beacon of hope for the Fishman community, and in doing so makes the agreement under the condition that he leave his crew behind, then they successfully break up that "beacon of hope" and no longer have to worry that much about the Fishman community rising up against them more. Given the natural strength of the Fishman community, that would have been a large accomplishment. So making Jinbei Shichibukai gives them more strength, breaks up a troublesome pirate crew, dissipates any building hope or strength the Fishmen might have had, and forces Arlong to seek out a weaker zone to terrorize since he lost a lot of his backbone (Jinbei and such).

Quote Originally Posted by brennen.exe View Post
Here is what we know:

Quote Originally Posted by Stephen's Trans: Chapter 69
Yosaku: The problem is one of those Seven Armed Seas. The leader of the Fishman Pirates, "Jinbeh"!! In exchange for Jinbeh's participation in the Seven Armed Seas, he has set someone terrible loose in East Blue [...] known as "ARLONG"!!!

Quote Originally Posted by Stephen's
Trans: Chapter 506
Rayleigh: Hachi helped me out when I was stranded at sea, over 20 years ago. [...] We were good pals, up until he joined the Pirates of the Sun.

Quote Originally Posted by Stephen's Trans: Chapter 521
Hancock: Tiger formed the "Pirates of the Sun" out of ex-slaves and left the area! What you most likely mistook for my symbol was in fact the sun mark of the fishman pirates.

So, given that:
Jinbei was captain of the Fishman Pirates (read: "Pirates of the Sun")
Jinbei must have been captain over Arlong since he was "let loose" as a term.
The Fishman Pirates (of the sun) were likely disbanded when Jinbei became Shichibukai, as a term of joining, and thus some of the ex-crew joined with Arlong and sought out easier waters since they lost a lot of their power.
The Fishmen probably have some enmity towards Jinbei for doing that.
My theory checks out.

While I don't disagree that the "complicated battle history" Yosaku mentions might very well mean that Jinbei and Arlong butted heads, Yosaku says that part of Jinbei's terms were to let Arlong go. That's why I think it would make perfect sense if the WG thought they could kill two birds with one stone by eliminating the threat that Jinbei and the Fishmen give off by inspiring other Fishmen, while at the same time dispersing their crew entirely. In fact, I will expand on this by "theorizing" further about Jinbei: If Jinbei were a more 'Martin Luther King' Fishman, then perhaps he thought he could ease the tension between Humans and Fishmen by cooperating with the World Government. This would probably be misconstrued by his ex-crew as being a sellout, but perhaps he did it nonetheless in those hopes. That attitude would be reflected in not only his decision to not participate in the war, but also Sengoku's response. Where Sengoku might have assumed he would be all for the "cooperation", he didn't factor in that Jinbei would have wanted it to be made without spilling the blood of someone else (Whitebeard). Of course, that is all just a stab in the dark. I think we are taking this theorizing a little far, but I think most of the base speculation on this has enough information to at least be worth thinking on.

Edit: Oh snap! Jinbei's dream could be to show the world that Man and Fish(man) can coexist! O_O

Originally Posted by brennen.exe View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 528
Jinbei: Ain't nobody runnin' away, a'ight?!!!
Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 528
Jinbei: It ain' my body as hurts, Ace-san.........!!!
Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 528
Jinbei: I'll tell ya what's really hurtin'....!!! It's my heart... it's burstin' to deal out justice!!! My Shichibukai title be damned. I'd toss it out in an instant!!! I'd gladly give my own life if it meant puttin' an end to this fighting!!!
Confirmation he is still adamantly opposed to the war. Confirmation he is human-friendly; or at least can be. Confirmation he definitely still wants to take action, just not in cahoots with the WG/Marines. He is willing to throw away his title and status if it meant the chance to deal out justice. If he is willing to give his life for that and willing to give up his position, then surely he would have no issue with being released from prison and then following or assisting a guy who is opposing the WG and aiming to be the Pirate King, knocked in a few Tenryuubito heads, is friends with another Fishman, and busted into a prison to save his brother. Among other things. Not to mention he has a lower bounty -- albeit frozen -- than Luffy's.

Jinbei might have risen to the ranks of Captain and even Shichibukai, but right now he is locked in prison without a crew and title. He has fallen from what he might have had, and if anything his introduction is reminiscent of Zoro's. Remember Zoro already had a name for himself and fame enough to instill fear and or knowledge of "Pirate Hunter" Zoro all the way to Arabasta. Robin? Robin's name still puts fear into people; "The Demon of Ohara", and she was wanted and hated by the WG/Marines. Brook? ex-Captain with a bounty on his head; though old, he had established his own place in the world, so to speak. Franky was just as much a gangster as Jinbei might be, and was an actual enemy when he was introduced; not to mention he was apprentice to the world's greatest shipwright and was well known on Water 7. I thought that by now it was clear that there is no established theme outside flashback, sad past, dream, and unique trait / design / personality / style. I don't see how Jinbei would fall out of any of those categories. Well, granted he doesn't exactly have all of those established yet, he is well in line for them all.

Originally Posted by brennen.exe View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 440
[Dragon's Hideout; Example: Reputation]

Revolutionary: That's Straw Hat Luffy. The guy responsible for taking out Crocodile in Alabasta, as well as the latest Enies Lobby news. His crew's gotten so big, the government can't hide them anymore.
Quote Originally Posted by Chapter 500
[Saboady Amusement Park; Example: Looks]
People: {Look at that...It's Straw Hat Luffy, from East Blue!!}

^^ An example that Luffy and his crew are known all over the world for their reputation and that even regular people recognize their looks. There are a ton more, but those are two simple examples off the top of my head. The Shichibukai might have years of infamy and fear behind them, but the Strawhats have a ridiculously huge combined bounty -- everyone on the crew has a bounty -- with two members over 100mil. Not to mention Luffy's bounty is higher than most of the Shichibukai. I'm not saying that he is more scary or more renowned, just that in any given place he is -- as far as we know -- just as likely to be recognized as any Shichibukai, if not feared as well. If not for having a crazy ass crew, then for having huge bounties and having done crazy ass things like single handedly destroying a huge fortified Marine island/base. In short, having someone like Jinbei join might have seemed crazy years ago, but having him join with their current fame wouldn't be that big of a deal. Luffy could easily become a Shichibukai with his current fame and power -- I mean, he did take out two already -- and has goals to be the Pirate King, so having someone of Jinbei's caliber makes sense. Again, Jinbei joining couldn't be at a more perfect time since Luffy has now taken down two Shichibukai, made strong impressions with two other Shichibukai, and seduced yet another Shichibukai. Having one of the last ones join his ranks -- the last introduced, to boot -- because he lost his title, was stuck in prison, and still had goals to accomplish makes good sense and good timing, and adds to the fame and influence that "Straw Hat" Luffy has.

Originally Posted by MagneticMonkey View Post
We need to see what Jimbei's dream is. If we take the fact that he loves humans and hate wars and say that his dream is to stop the hate between the fishmen and the humans, and also take care of the slavery and stuff like that then i must say that his dream is not (IMO) enough to be a SH. Every SH has a unique dream which make them travel the whole GL.

Back to Brennen.
Very true, but first you have to think about what intentions Jinbei might have had for joining the WG. If Jinbei's dreams are that, then likely he joined the Shichibukai to show the world that a fishman could work alongside them in a peaceful manner. If that isn't working out, then why not show the world by being part of the next Pirate King's crew? Travel the world and show people that you can live alongside humans just the same. Surely that news would spread as they travel. That's just my guess though. All of that is pure speculation and hypothesis.
 

Tizoc

Member
It just now dawned on me that kuma's bible isnt a bible in the religous sense but rather a bible of the locations he had been to and marked with his paw paw powers.
Edit- ah unless i am misremembering how his power works but he just 'pushes' them to a destination he knows?
 

smurfx

get some go again
It just now dawned on me that kuma's bible isnt a bible in the religous sense but rather a bible of the locations he had been to and marked with his paw paw powers.
Edit- ah unless i am misremembering how his power works but he just 'pushes' them to a destination he knows?
i think so. i imagine he has a page for every destination he has been to and writes down the name of the person he wants to send there and pushes them there.
 

Tizoc

Member
Hah
After brook's flashback at the end of thriller bark he pulls open his skull and brings out a dial from it

Edit- oh yeah one more thing- are corcus and clover related?
 

Ray Down

Banned
Back in 2008 they also didn't know he was a coward.

tumblr_inline_mi575oLrLE1qz4rgp.gif
 
I mean, it'd depend on how willing they were to leave Marine HQ and Mariejois undefended for an extended period of time and how strong the giants on the island are. If it's anything like Amazon Lily it might not even be worth their effort to go get it, imagine having to deal with an island of warrior giants who could use haki. Even the admirals might not be enough to deal with that.

But yea, you could make the argument it's either on Mariejois or Elbaf. Personally I lean towards Elbaf because if the Marines had it there'd be some rumors about it, I doubt they could keep it a total secret.

I'm fully on the Elbaf train. I just think it was given to the giants there by the Marines as protection. Sort of like the end of Thor 2 when they give an Infinity Stone to the Collector just to hide it.
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I'm think oda needs to just tell ua everything. I don't think we have enough time. The nyt article in off topic is scaring me again :(
 

Raonak

Banned
I was wondering carrot's purpose in this arc.
I was initially thinking new member, but that seems unlikely based on how little she's done in the arc so far, she's mostly just interacts with bropper.

Chopper getting blasted by nami's thunder made me think...
what if she teaches chopper the mink static ability?
He's been quite overdue for a powerup.
 

Ray Down

Banned
I was wondering carrot's purpose in this arc.
I was initially thinking new member, but that seems unlikely based on how little she's done in the arc so far, she's mostly just interacts with bropper.

Chopper getting blasted by nami's thunder made me think...
what if she teaches chopper the mink static ability?
He's been quite overdue for a powerup.

I think she mentions only Minks can do it.

Guys why do you think Oda did so much with Barto, Sai and Canvendish last arc...because he cut the crew size down and they need help to get out of there current trouble.

Plus add more charcter to people who are just going to be part of the fleet.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Holy shit Arlong Park Next Straw hat thread reaches a whole new level when people are making Monet fanfiction about how she's a good person whole really into astronomy.
 

Chase17

Member
Brook delivered! The attempts to rescue brook were fairly amusing. Also after everything that's happened it would have been funny if the random dog was able to successfully poach Luffy's meal.
 

Veelk

Banned
Brook delivered! The attempts to rescue brook were fairly amusing. Also after everything that's happened it would have been funny if the random dog was able to successfully poach Luffy's meal.

And then, with no other food to offer him, Sanji would cut off his leg and feed it to Luffy as a callback to his true father Zeff.

And then after they get back together, Chopper says "Whose the emergency rations now?!"
 

Raonak

Banned
Speaking of snimation, when the anime's animation wuality start going down? After or during skypiea?

I mean.... the east blue had some pretty bad animation too.

But Water7 - Shabody was probably the most consistent animation-wise.

Recent stuff can look very good in parts, and very bad too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom