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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue

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Raonak

Raonak

Banned
Fucking oda.... made me 180.
fuck it, Im on team pudding now.

They make a pretty good couple. I just made the connection that they both cover one eye with hair.
They also both had fucked up upbringing where they were discriminated by friends/family for being different.
Except in Pudding's case, she didn't have the caring parent that sanji's mother was.

The eye thing seems stupid at first, but there's a lot of context around it which makes me appreciate it.
Especially with how it reinforces sanji's character traits rather than throwing it all away.
In the same way God Ussop's lies come true, sanji's kindness pays off (from time to time)


I am super curious to see if they actually end up getting married by the end of the arc.


Good to see sanji getting some wins, that haki dodge was hype as fuck.
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
MugiwaraCole said:
Sanji might've finessed the draws off a woman who wanted him dead seconds before, and then dodged a bullet from a man who can see into the future.

His year has begun.
Click to expand...

2017 was rough af lmao


Kreed said:
We had Luffy and Brooke heal from drinking milk, but Pudding crying from her first compliment is where folks are drawing the line? Ok.
Click to expand...

I always see this false equivalency pop up when it comes to anime/manga. One Piece has from Day 1 taught us to just roll with the superhuman stuff and obvious gags, so we generally do just that.

Regarding character interactions and personalities and such, I don't see the issue with someone wondering if it is inconsistent or even nonsensical.

Also we are not a monolith!
 
K

Kreed

Member
Sibersk Esto said:
It's a false equivalence to compare the logic of a gag to major character development.
Click to expand...

LotusHD said:
I always see this false equivalency pop up when it comes to anime/manga. One Piece has from Day 1 taught us to just roll with the superhuman stuff and obvious gags, so we generally do just that.

Regarding character interactions and personalities and such, I don't see the issue with someone wondering if it is inconsistent or even nonsensical.

Also we are not a monolith!
Click to expand...

I don't see how healing "non gag" battle damage with a gag makes it a false equivalency, but what ever. I know I've done my fair share of complaining about One Piece/Oda's writing a lot in this thread and the manga threads over the years, from how he's handled Robin and her "battles", to Sabo and the Ace pregnancy thing. I just don't get the problem with Pudding crying. It's not like she is a good person now.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Chapter was hype, the prince charms another princess​. One piece is a gag manga mascarading as a Shounen. Next chapter is going to be the full of chaos.
 
R

Ray Down

Banned
Viola was secretly always good, just working with Dofla as a means to take him down hopefully one day so she doesn't really count as someone who was evil turned good.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Ray Down said:
Viola was secretly always good, just working with Dofla as a means to take him down hopefully one day so she doesn't really count as someone who was evil turned good.
Click to expand...
She was actively working for Doffy until Sanji came along and offered her a way out.
 
M

Metal B

Member
Tathanen said:
If we take the flashbacks at face value, unflinching acceptance of the third eye is probably enough to indeed give her pause. This is the first person in her life to give her this kind of validation, but I think the exact circumstances of the moment probably play into the severity of her response. If Sanji had said this to her elsewhere, I bet she'd be shook, but maybe not collapse-in-a-fit shook. Because right now she's having to process this while literally SECONDS away from having planned to blow his fucking brains out, with everyone watching expecting it to happen. It's a short-circuiting of expectations, she can't just process it at her own pace, she has to process it AND fight with the fact that she's expected to be killing him right this instant.

It was supposed to be so easy to just kill him right then and there, and then he had to go and do that. It's not just tears from "oh man he's validating my fundamental flaw," it's ALSO tears from "why now, why does this have to become difficult at the last second."
Click to expand...
I would also add, how Pudding would had justify the killing:
She planed on shocking Sanji with her third eye. Similar how the kids in the her past turned on her, she was sure, that Sanji would also be disgusted of her. Then she could turn her self hate against him and kill him, like she tried to kill those bullies.
This was also a moment of weakness of her. Even before the wedding started, Pudding was already uneasy. She planed to leading her guard down to attack him with her worst secret. ... But the attack failed! Sanji's positive and honest reaction hit her off guard. Her reality and ego brock.

Thinking it in this way, it is an actually strong moment. It's maybe a little to subtle. I believe Oda will go into more details in the next chapters.

Kreed said:
I just don't get the problem with Pudding crying. It's not like she is a good person now.
Click to expand...
That's right. This is a tuning point for her, but it isn't over yet. The battle will also be a fight about Pudding's soul. We have two troubled children surrounded by there terrible parents in an all out brawl. The perfect moment to make life-changing decisions. This would be a boring fight, if there wasn't some emotional battles added to the mix.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Kreed said:
I don't see how healing "non gag" battle damage with a gag makes it a false equivalency, but what ever. I know I've done my fair share of complaining about One Piece/Oda's writing a lot in this thread and the manga threads over the years, from how he's handled Robin and her "battles", to Sabo and the Ace pregnancy thing. I just don't get the problem with Pudding crying. It's not like she is a good person now.
Click to expand...

It's never about her being a 'good' person so much as a weak person.

The reaction here is far too extreme. In the space of a nanosecond, she went from cold, sadistic murderer to weeping and useless. She fell apart instantly. I would think much less harshly of this moment if this was something lesser, like instead of absolutely falling apart, she just hesitated. As if she were processing the comment and did not yet know what to make of it. But to have her fall to her knees in utter uselessness like this is just pathetic.

And this isn't a complaint of "It can't happen because it's logistically impossible" like the Ace pregnancy thing, or just an unwillingness to write the possible like Robin. This is just "What does this action signify about this character?" And what it does is take a character that's been portrayed as an emotional manipulator and have her beaten in her own game in the dumbest way possible. So, apparently, Pudding is happy to make people dance by preying on their emotional sentimentality, but she is so insecure that she falls apart at the mere mention of her eye? Because that's all this was, Sanji being Sanji.

And people are trying to validate that. No, Sanji's pathological compulsion to find everything attached to a woman gorgeous isn't a good thing. It was never a good thing and he's still a shitheel for it. This is just Sanji continuing to value the physical beauty over the person underneath, who he at this point has every reason to believe is as vile as ever. And while the manga doesn't imply that Pudding isn't necessarily turning good as a result of it, it's rewarded it by it breaking apart Pudding's plan and stability.

It's hard for me to think of a worse resolution to Pudding, who've I liked specifically because she worked as an cold emotional manipulator who didn't give a fuck about the insipid sentimentality that went on between the strawhats, be this destroyed emotionally by a typical, every day compliment that Sanji would have given any woman he happened to walk by on any day of the week. And there are a million ways this could have worked like if Sanji said it because he knew it was something personal to her because he got to know her or if she wasn't in tears over it, but just surprised by it instead or something. We've already established that Pudding is liable to slip up if she's indulging her sadism, so take advantage of that maybe. There are plenty of ways to introduce weakness to Pudding, but this?

This is just so laaaame. It's like having the Joker (Batman, not Doffy) leave crying because he can't take someone making fun of him. It's like an Indianna Jones movie where, when confronted with his fear of snakes, Indy just leaves and doesn't come back, and then it's revealed their all rubber toy snakes. It's quite possibly the lamest thing One Piece has ever done, and that is a goddamn competitive list.
 
R

Ray Down

Banned
Just gonna leave this here I'm sure it means nothing:

pudding2.png
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Inclined to agree with Vleek on this one. It's a gag, but a gag that's too important to the story for me to really enjoy.

We all knew a gag was coming, but it ended up just being not funny instead.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Metal B said:
db3fda05ff9ef9078e9c4f12da20e3be.jpg

Crazy, troubled and extreme people react in crazy, troubled and extreme ways. Go figure.
Click to expand...

I don't see him running or crying, nor was Batman making fun of him. Not to mention that the entirety of that comic built up to that moment, with both sides trying to make an empathetic connection. So, not really comparable, no.

As I said, I'm not opposed to Pudding having weakness. I'm not even opposed to her breaking down and crying. But you gotta earn it. This? No. Too sudden, too extreme, against the principle of the character, born out of the typical character flaw that Sanji always had. It's laaaaaaaaaaame.
 
D

dabig2

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
She was actively working for Doffy until Sanji came along and offered her a way out.
Click to expand...

But she wasn't an evil person he turned good, she was more a hostage he helped free. Huge difference there. She was always plotting Doflamingo's downfall or at least was hoping he'd screw off somewhere else and leave her family alone. She was always good, and that's what Sanji recognized in her despite not knowing a thing about her beyond she was an Doffy executive who had just betrayed him.

Pudding situation is more like Baby 5 if we are to draw a parallel to a Dressrosa face turn. It's not that they're actually good people putting on act, but more people who shown a little bit of honest compassion for once in their lives might have a chance for redemption.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Yeah had Oda ever built towards this, it might be better, but holy hell. Go read those Pudding chapters where she's laughing at how much fun it'll be to murder people. She literally cried tears of joy when she told Luffy and Nami her plan.

This isn't how you turn a character around. I legit had to check that I didn't accidentally miss a chapter because it's so jarring and badly written.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
I don't see why it's so surprising. We saw Pudding go from sweetheart to murdering psycho in one chapter. It's pretty clear there are different sides to her character. How about we wait and see?
 
C

caliph95

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
Yeah had Oda ever built towards this, it might be better, but holy hell. Go read those Pudding chapters where she's laughing at how much fun it'll be to murder people. She literally cried tears of joy when she told Luffy and Nami her plan.

This isn't how you turn a character around. I legit had to check that I didn't accidentally miss a chapter because it's so jarring and badly written.
Click to expand...
Honestly the same i don't hate it but i would have been fine with it if it has been hinted more towards it. Like i don't know her stabbing a guard for making an eye joke or something
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Veelk said:
It's never about her being a 'good' person so much as a weak person.

The reaction here is far too extreme. In the space of a nanosecond, she went from cold, sadistic murderer to weeping and useless. She fell apart instantly. I would think much less harshly of this moment if this was something lesser, like instead of absolutely falling apart, she just hesitated. As if she were processing the comment and did not yet know what to make of it. But to have her fall to her knees in utter uselessness like this is just pathetic.

And this isn't a complaint of "It can't happen because it's logistically impossible" like the Ace pregnancy thing, or just an unwillingness to write the possible like Robin. This is just "What does this action signify about this character?" And what it does is take a character that's been portrayed as an emotional manipulator and have her beaten in her own game in the dumbest way possible. So, apparently, Pudding is happy to make people dance by preying on their emotional sentimentality, but she is so insecure that she falls apart at the mere mention of her eye? Because that's all this was, Sanji being Sanji.

And people are trying to validate that. No, Sanji's pathological compulsion to find everything attached to a woman gorgeous isn't a good thing. It was never a good thing and he's still a shitheel for it. This is just Sanji continuing to value the physical beauty over the person underneath, who he at this point has every reason to believe is as vile as ever. And while the manga doesn't imply that Pudding isn't necessarily turning good as a result of it, it's rewarded it by it breaking apart Pudding's plan and stability.

It's hard for me to think of a worse resolution to Pudding, who've I liked specifically because she worked as an cold emotional manipulator who didn't give a fuck about the insipid sentimentality that went on between the strawhats, be this destroyed emotionally by a typical, every day compliment that Sanji would have given any woman he happened to walk by on any day of the week. And there are a million ways this could have worked like if Sanji said it because he knew it was something personal to her because he got to know her or if she wasn't in tears over it, but just surprised by it instead or something. We've already established that Pudding is liable to slip up if she's indulging her sadism, so take advantage of that maybe. There are plenty of ways to introduce weakness to Pudding, but this?

This is just so laaaame. It's like having the Joker (Batman, not Doffy) leave crying because he can't take someone making fun of him. It's like an Indianna Jones movie where, when confronted with his fear of snakes, Indy just leaves and doesn't come back, and then it's revealed their all rubber toy snakes. It's quite possibly the lamest thing One Piece has ever done, and that is a goddamn competitive list.
Click to expand...
I disagree, in all her actions as the "real" evil pudding she was always going over the top, like a caricature of what an evil person would do in a given moment. She was always overcompensating and now we know that. Don't get mad cause you fooled yourself into seeing something that wasn't there. It's lame to you as a function of your expectations.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
I too didn't like the sudden oh you have three eyes? Disgusting.

What the shit? All these weird humans ain't disgusting too?

Only redeeming thing is Sanji's OP haki.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
thehypocrite said:
I disagree, in all her actions as the "real" evil pudding she was always going over the top, like a caricature of what an evil person would do in a given moment. She was always overcompensating and know when now that. Don't get mad cause you fooled yourself into seeing something that wasn't there. It's lame to you as a function of your expectations.
Click to expand...

Again, this is less about her being good or evil and more about her being strong or weak. I don't really care of she's evil or not, but we never really had a reason to believe she was so pathetic. She's lame because she's laaaaaaaaaaaame.

And what the hell is "over the top" even supposed to mean in the context of One Piece? Everybody is over the top and a caricature here.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Most plot points can work with proper set up.

This did not have proper set up. Like I said above, if a movie did this, it'd be in the running for a Razzie.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Veelk said:
Again, this is less about her being good or evil and more about her being strong or weak. I don't really care of she's evil or not, but we never really had a reason to believe she was so pathetic. She's lame because she's laaaaaaaaaaaame.

And what the hell is "over the top" even supposed to mean in the context of One Piece? Everybody is over the top and a caricature here.
Click to expand...
I don't think that moment there defines her as weak or strong as it does for you. I think you are rushing for a overall judgement based on 5? pages of a chapter. There's still plenty to be seen of her in my opinion. Over the top means she gave the impression of being a tryhard once her third eye was open. At least to me.
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Cindi Mayweather said:
How about we wait and see?
Click to expand...

True.

Honestly, so long as she keeps that snark of hers, she'd still be awesome to me.

caliph95 said:
Honestly the same i don't hate it but i would have been fine with it if it has been hinted more towards it. Like i don't know her stabbing a guard for making an eye joke or something
Click to expand...

Yea, like I guess in hindsight you could wonder why she doesn't reveal her eye to everyone (thought it was because of her precious hidden powers), but meh, I didn't know it was because she got bullied.

I overall liked it, just wished they built it up more.
 
B

Blackleg-sanji1

Banned
No one gonna talk about how luffy just destroyed one of the two things big mom was super excited for?

Or if pudding is the last of her clan that's why she was laughed at?

Or how sanji out Haki'd a man with a billion and 50 million man beli

No? Alright
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Blackleg-sanji1 said:
No one gonna talk about how luffy just destroyed one of the two things big mom was super excited for?

Or if pudding is the last of her clan that's why she was laughed at?

Or how sanji out Haki'd a man with a billion and 50 million man beli

No? Alright
Click to expand...

It's always easier to focus on the negative tho

Not much to really say other than:

- Big Mom is about to go HAM
- Sanji got his first W in a minute, bout time
- Pudding as a kid is still quite violent, which is adorable in its own fucked up way
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Blackleg-sanji1 said:
No one gonna talk about how luffy just destroyed one of the two things big mom was super excited for?

Or if pudding is the last of her clan that's why she was laughed at?

Or how sanji out Haki'd a man with a billion and 50 million man beli

No? Alright
Click to expand...

Honestly man, as far as Sanji goes....

You enjoy it.

We've been crapping on Sanji for the better part of a year now. And while I see it as soundly deserved, and I certainly don't see what happened with Sanji and Pudding to be positive, vindication has been a long time coming for you.

I can't partake in the celebration because of my position on Sanji, but I'm happy that you finally have your moment, and more are probably coming as the arc goes on.
 
B

Blackleg-sanji1

Banned
Veelk said:
Honestly man, as far as Sanji goes....

You enjoy it.

We've been crapping on Sanji for the better part of a year now. And while I see it as soundly deserved, and I certainly don't see what happened with Sanji and Pudding to be positive, vindication has been a long time coming for you.

I can't partake in the celebration because of my position on Sanji, but I'm happy that you finally have your moment, and more are probably coming as the arc goes on.
Click to expand...
Why thank you Veelk
 
Tathanen

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Let's not get TOO crazy here anyway, Pudding's having a bit of a crisis but she isn't suddenly a straw hat. I dunno how much focus there'll be on her in the next chapter considering the cake just exploded with a million Luffys, but I suspect she's got more evil to ply before her inevitable heel turn.

THAT SAID

she might make a pretty fun straw hat now that I'm thinking about it, just in terms of interaction with the crew. If we assume that over the rest of this arc she ends up warming to Sanji and they become a real couple, I can imagine that she'll be nice to him, but maybe still a total shit to the rest of the crew. Lotta third-eye glowering at people, maybe threatening to kill Sanji when he inevitably still leers at Nami. Could be some silly stuff there, shades of Ceasar Clown Gangster Gastino's interactions with the crew.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Blackleg, my friend, how you feel about your man dodging a bullet from a man who can see the future? HYPE

Tathanen said:
Let's not get TOO crazy here anyway, Pudding's having a bit of a crisis but she isn't suddenly a straw hat. I dunno how much focus there'll be on her in the next chapter considering the cake just exploded with a million Luffys, but I suspect she's got more evil to ply before her inevitable heel turn.

THAT SAID
Click to expand...

Face turn you mean.

Face - good
Heel - bad
 
K

Kreed

Member
Veelk said:
It's never about her being a 'good' person so much as a weak person.

The reaction here is far too extreme. In the space of a nanosecond, she went from cold, sadistic murderer to weeping and useless. She fell apart instantly. I would think much less harshly of this moment if this was something lesser, like instead of absolutely falling apart, she just hesitated. As if she were processing the comment and did not yet know what to make of it. But to have her fall to her knees in utter uselessness like this is just pathetic.

And this isn't a complaint of "It can't happen because it's logistically impossible" like the Ace pregnancy thing, or just an unwillingness to write the possible like Robin. This is just "What does this action signify about this character?" And what it does is take a character that's been portrayed as an emotional manipulator and have her beaten in her own game in the dumbest way possible. So, apparently, Pudding is happy to make people dance by preying on their emotional sentimentality, but she is so insecure that she falls apart at the mere mention of her eye? Because that's all this was, Sanji being Sanji.

And people are trying to validate that. No, Sanji's pathological compulsion to find everything attached to a woman gorgeous isn't a good thing. It was never a good thing and he's still a shitheel for it. This is just Sanji continuing to value the physical beauty over the person underneath, who he at this point has every reason to believe is as vile as ever. And while the manga doesn't imply that Pudding isn't necessarily turning good as a result of it, it's rewarded it by it breaking apart Pudding's plan and stability.

It's hard for me to think of a worse resolution to Pudding, who've I liked specifically because she worked as an cold emotional manipulator who didn't give a fuck about the insipid sentimentality that went on between the strawhats, be this destroyed emotionally by a typical, every day compliment that Sanji would have given any woman he happened to walk by on any day of the week. And there are a million ways this could have worked like if Sanji said it because he knew it was something personal to her because he got to know her or if she wasn't in tears over it, but just surprised by it instead or something. We've already established that Pudding is liable to slip up if she's indulging her sadism, so take advantage of that maybe. There are plenty of ways to introduce weakness to Pudding, but this?

This is just so laaaame. It's like having the Joker (Batman, not Doffy) leave crying because he can't take someone making fun of him. It's like an Indianna Jones movie where, when confronted with his fear of snakes, Indy just leaves and doesn't come back, and then it's revealed their all rubber toy snakes. It's quite possibly the lamest thing One Piece has ever done, and that is a goddamn competitive list.
Click to expand...

I can see where you're coming from with Sanji. If it was Zoro saying this for example, you're right that it would hold more weight from the male character's perspective, vs Sanji who compliments all "attractive" humanoid women characters in his age range.

I also have to admit that I don't "care" about Pudding anymore since her reveal as a villain, especially after Oda "faked out" the audience IMO with the flash back/showing Pudding crying. So I can understand not being pleased with this situation if you liked seeing Pudding being cold and manipulative. Part of the reason I liked this interaction with Sanji and Pudding is because it made that "fake out" flashback more than just a "fake out" IMO. Prior to this, as you said, Pudding was a "cold emotional manipulator", so that flash back with Lola and Big Mom back when Pudding was talking to Luffy and Nami made no sense to me outside of Oda throwing out a "maybe she really is good" false flag, whereas now those flashbacks were hints towards what just happened.
 
I

Imperial Bishop

Banned
HAHAHAHAHA Pudding stans getting blown out. lol

This is why I don't read spoilers. Because I wasn't in the slightest expecting Pudding to break down like that after Sanji called her third eye beautiful.
She's still nowhere close to pulling a heel-face-turn, but this adds another layer to her character and how she perceives herself.

The two parts that got me the most hyped were Sanji dodging Katakuri's jellybean and Luffy bursting out of the wedding cake with a bunch of mirror clones.
HOLY SHIT THAT WAS...YOOOOOOO!

That's so Oda. He couldn't have Luffy just burst out of the cake alone. He needed to make it 10x more crazier.
 
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