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[Imperial Bishop]

One of the few times I agree with Veelk.

All of the villains post-timeskip (Hody, Caesar, Doffy, Big Mom) have some kind of insecurity that drives their actions.

 

[LotusHD]

Smoothie turned a live giraffe and woman into juice as they screamed in agony and DRANK THEM while having an Amazoness body and rocking booty but let's cherry pick about how there's no strong evil sexy women

There's also that other swordswoman with the big ass hat. On mobile atm, what's her name again?

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

So people are mad that instead of getting a one-dimension character we got someone with some texture? None of what happened in this chapter makes her a good guy now. It makes her a complicated bad guy. She's still a bad guy, just not a one-dimensional one.

Also, are we just ignoring the 400-pound pirate in the room who is unambiguously evil and deserves to get her ass kicked? Or are we ignoring her because she's not sexy?

Because it's the same kind of depth every beautiful woman gets recently in One Piece. In literally any other medium, or any other section of this forum, people would be in on this criticism. It's only because OP is anime, and a generally excellent one, that it gets a pass on sexist BS.

They ignore her because she's not sexy. But also ignore Smoothie who is sexy. It's weird and like they're picking and choosing their points.

Only "ugly" women get their asses kicked, with the sole exception being Ms. Doublefinger (and even she was beaten with lightning, not fists). We haven't seen Smoothie do anything yet, so counting on her to be an exception is like when everyone thought Rebecca would be a cool physical fighter because she's a gladiator.

Compare pre-DF Alvida, Ms. Merry Christmas, and other "ugly" women, who are left visibly swollen and roughed-up (just like the male villains) at the end of their fights. This never happens to the attractive women.

 

[NSESN]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that people are associating insecurity with goodness?

Because that's all it is.

Sanji stumbled on an emotional pressure point. Almost everyone has those, good and bad.

I agree with you now. There is no sign that she turned good.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I can't wait to see the world's reaction to what happens after this arc

 

[Tathanen]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that people are associating insecurity with goodness?

Because that's all it is.

Sanji stumbled on an emotional pressure point. Almost everyone has those, good and bad.

I don't think it's that she appears "good," just that this is the first chink in the armor she's really showed, and people want so badly to turn her into a Straw Hat that they assume this is the first step on the way there.

 

[caliph95]

There's also that other swordswoman with the big ass hat. On mobile atm, what's her name again?

You mean big mom's daughter that chopped the homie in half.
That's amande

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

We aren't associating insecurity with goodness. We are appreciating Pudding reveling in her humanity who previously had shown herself to be a stone cold bitch. Her struggle to kill the person who complimented her for the first time ever, her expectation of how he would react, it's such a nice moment. She knows she has to kill him too. We know what happens when you defy Big Mom. We saw it at the beginning of the arc when she killed her own son! She wants to kill Lola and treats Lola's twin like shit! But let's convince ourselves that Pudding struggling with killing Sanji is not justified after what we know about BM and Pudding's relationship with her.

I want Pudding to turn good so while she's clearly not good YET, this is a good first step and I really like it.

 

[LotusHD]

I mean, I rather see more girls fight the guys, tends to feel so convenient when the few women on opposing sides end up fighting one another.

You mean big mom's daughter that chopped the homie in half.
That's amande

Ah yes, thanks

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

There's also that other swordswoman with the big ass hat. On mobile atm, what's her name again?

Yeah I like her.

 

[Ray Down]

I mean, I rather see more girls fight the guys, tends to feel so convenient when the women end up fighting one another.

Same but it sucks Oda writes to avoid it.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

I can't wait to see the world's reaction to what happens after this arc

My favorite thing about the worldwide reactions is that Luffy's hometown is always celebrating when Luffy's bounty goes up.

 

[caliph95]

We might get straightforward female fights soon with Amande and Smoothie, at least i hope

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

My favorite thing about the worldwide reactions is that Luffy's hometown is always celebrating when Luffy's bounty goes up.

One day the mayor will join in!

 

[NSESN]

I mean, I rather see more girls fight the guys, tends to feel so convenient when the few women on opposing sides end up fighting one another.

This and giving Robin more fights.

 

[Ray Down]

I agree with you now. There is no sign that she turned good.

She not going to turn good just from this, if anything is just may lead to more about her, Sanji talking to her about it and where her character might go.

It's basically a jumping off point to where she can possible be reddened and such.

 

[Veelk]

I don't think it's that she appears "good," just that this is the first chink in the armor she's really showed, and people want so badly to turn her into a Straw Hat that they assume this is the first step on the way there.

If she has to give up what makes her cool to become a strawhat, then whats the point?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I'm actually really hopeful for Smoothie, but then I was hopeful for Rebecca, and that turned out to be so sexist, Don Draper would've complained.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that people are associating insecurity with goodness?

Because that's all it is.

Sanji stumbled on an emotional pressure point. Almost everyone has those, good and bad.

I think many are (not unjustifiably) using their knowledge of both One Piece and manga/anime to assume that a break like this will lead to a turn.

There are...three distinct possibilities that I can see Pudding's character going from here:

1) Full-on face turn. Not totally out of the realm of possibility because like I said, it's not uncommon.

2) This is an emotional shock for Pudding. It will lead to her lashing out and doing something drastic.

3) This is a four-dimensional chess game by Pudding to either a) draw out the strawhats and stay loyal to Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding is so hostile or b) to intentionally foil Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding wants to turn on her family (Although this last option runs the risk of being a bit too convoluted).

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

If she has to give up what makes her cool to become a strawhat, then whats the point?

She can still be a psychopath to everyone not Sanji. Robin is still kind of a loner for example. Nami is still obsessed with berries. I'm not sure what your point is as if to suggest Strawhat's still don't have their core traits even after joining.

 

[LotusHD]

If she has to give up what makes her cool to become a strawhat, then whats the point?

Ya, no matter what happens, so long she keeps that nasty snark (Although maybe you also want her more violent tendencies as well), I'm more than fine with it. I'd be surprised if that just totally went away out of nowhere.

I doubt it would though, even as she went down on her knees, she still found the time to call him an idiot lol

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

I'm actually really hopeful for Smoothie, but then I was hopeful for Rebecca, and that turned out to be so sexist, Don Draper would've complained.

It helps that Smoothie has one of my favorite designs of any OP character ever, but I'm with you. I doubt we'll get anything special from her.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I'll be honest. Considering the number of times we've discussed this topic by now, I kinda don't givens shit about it anymore.

 

[LotusHD]

Says here's 4 possibilities, uses 3a and 3b, damn it all

 

[caliph95]

I'll be honest. Considering the number of times we've discussed this topic by now, I kinda don't givens shit about it anymore.

It's my first time at least

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Says here's 4 possibilities, uses 3a and 3b, damn it all

lol yeah I changed my mind in the middle and forgot to change it to three.

 

[Ray Down]

I'll be honest. Considering the number of times we've discussed this topic by now, I kinda don't givens shit about it anymore.

Women in OP or Pudding?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Women in OP or Pudding?

Women in OP, of course!

 

[caliph95]

We will never be tired of sweet pudding

 

[Veelk]

3) This is a four-dimensional chess game by Pudding to either a) draw out the strawhats and stay loyal to Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding is so hostile or b) to intentionally foil Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding wants to turn on her family (Although this last option runs the risk of being a bit too convoluted).

I want either of these.

She can still be a psychopath to everyone not Sanji. Robin is still kind of a loner for example. Nami is still obsessed with berries. I'm not sure what your point is as if to suggest Strawhat's still don't have their core traits even after joining.

Well, if we're going to maintain the core traits of a character, this would result in Pudding continue trying to control Sanji through lies and manipulation through an emotionally abusive but genuinely affective relationship. She'd do shit like lay in conditional love on him, like tell him if he doesn't get his bounty higher than Zoro's, she doesn't see why Zoro wouldn't be the better man for her. Basically just try to control him at every turn, since that is what her relationship has been up to now: Control through lies.

You can parse Pudding into having a kind of twisted love for Sanji, but yeah, you'd have to abandon the true core of what makes Pudding Pudding into something less horrific if Oda wanted to depict it in a non-horrific light. I mean, I guess he could make a gag out of it, but it'd be uncharacteristically mean spirited of him.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I'll be honest. Considering the number of times we've discussed this topic by now, I kinda don't givens shit about it anymore.

Cindi doesn't give a shit, shut it down folks

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Cindi doesn't give a shit, shut it down folks

You can talk about it. I didn't say you couldn't. But I think it's overdone at this point and I don't see what's wrong with stating that.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

This and giving Robin more fights.

Robin not getting a single fight after almost 13 years is a travesty.

 

[BatDan]

You can talk about it. I didn't say you couldn't. But I think it's overdone at this point and I don't see what's wrong with stating that.

Agreed.
It's beyond annoying now.

 

[Ray Down]

Robin not getting a single fight after almost 13 years is a travesty.

That's not true...she fought random grunts and I think Gladius.....

 

[Veelk]

Agreed.
It's beyond annoying now.

You're implying there was a time when people didn't consider it beyond annoying. If we only talked about it when nobody raised an objection to it, we'd never talk about it.

Nevertheless, for my part, I'm not focusing on the sexism reading of Pudding's reveal. I'm just mourning the death of a good villain. Whatever happens from here on out, it's going to be hard to forget the moment Pudding broke down because Sanji Sanji'd himself all over it.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I think many are (not unjustifiably) using their knowledge of both One Piece and manga/anime to assume that a break like this will lead to a turn.

There are...three distinct possibilities that I can see Pudding's character going from here:

1) Full-on face turn. Not totally out of the realm of possibility because like I said, it's not uncommon.

2) This is an emotional shock for Pudding. It will lead to her lashing out and doing something drastic.

3) This is a four-dimensional chess game by Pudding to either a) draw out the strawhats and stay loyal to Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding is so hostile or b) to intentionally foil Big Mom and the flashback stands as a reason for why Pudding wants to turn on her family (Although this last option runs the risk of being a bit too convoluted).

Oda has been mostly subverting expectations in this arc, so I expect to get a few more twists and turns in the climax.

If Pudding starts falling for Sanji, becomes a fully good person, or worse, joins the crew, then I'll be very upset.

That's not true...she fought random grunts and I think Gladius.....

That was more of a scuffle than a fight. She barely interacted with Gladius.

 

[caliph95]

It's hard to write fights for robin i guess. She either snaps your neck and spine or she doesn't.

Though you would think Oda will give her a logia fight or something

 

[BobTheFork]

It's hard to write fights for robin i guess. She either snaps your neck and spine or she doesn't.

Though you would think Oda will give her a logia fight or something

He did. She tried to fight Aokiji and break his neck with predictable results.

 

[caliph95]

He did. She tried to fight Aokiji and break his next with predictable results.

Forgot about that, i meant a full fight though where she would have to figure how to deal with one and does.

Though i guess due to the sheer number of characters, some are getting the shaft. Too bad for the robin fans

 

[B-Dubs]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that people are associating insecurity with goodness?

Because that's all it is.

Sanji stumbled on an emotional pressure point. Almost everyone has those, good and bad.

Yup. Sanji happened on a weak point and got a critical hit. That's all that happened. Pudding is still a baddie, just one that has more than one dimension.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

It's hard to write fights for robin i guess. She either snaps your neck and spine or she doesn't.

Re-read the Yama fight and you'll understand why that statement is BS.

 

[Veelk]

It's hard to write fights for robin i guess. She either snaps your neck and spine or she doesn't.

Though you would think Oda will give her a logia fight or something

It's really not. All you really need to do is "Oh, I can't snap his neck? Then let me do this other thing I can do." And work from there. Maybe the enemy has another weakness she needs to figure out. Maybe she needs to do something else before she can snap his neck. It's a silly argument, especially since One Piece places attack creativity over practicality, so Robin could make up...well, literally anything and Oda just has her do it as if that were the most practical thing she could do to an opponent, even if it wasn't.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Robin not getting a single fight after almost 13 years is a travesty.

She had a 1 on 1 fight on fish man island but it was lame.

Forgot about that, i meant a full fight though where she would have to figure how to deal with one and does.

Though i guess due to the sheer number of characters, some are getting the shaft. Too bad for the robin fans

This also true when look at other characters .

 

[Lunar15]

I think the thing with pudding for me in this chapter is that it's so predictably lame. When Pudding flipped a heel turn, I thought that was interesting (if not also a bit predictable). But the whole time I was sitting there thinking "oh god, oda's going to do this thing where she falls madly in love with Sanji anyway". Not only did that exactly happen, it happened for a really, really stupid reason "oh he likes my third eye!".

It's just a lame joke without even going into inherent sexism or anything like that. The payoff wasn't satisfying. Pudding was evil for all of 8 chapters.

 

[B-Dubs]

I think the thing with pudding for me in this chapter is that it's so predictably lame. When Pudding flipped a heel turn, I thought that was interesting (if not also a bit predictable). But the whole time I was sitting there thinking "oh god, oda's going to do this thing where she falls madly in love with Sanji anyway". Not only did that exactly happen, it happened for a really, really stupid reason "oh he likes my third eye!".

It's just a lame joke without even going into inherent sexism or anything like that. The payoff wasn't satisfying.

She didn't heel turn though. She didn't fall in love with him, that we know of. None of what happened this chapter makes her a good guy now. Sanji scored a critical hit, that's all.

 

[Seesaw15]

The Yama vs Robin fight was a fluke. Literally every other battle Robin had before and after has either been a team battle or she's used her power to quickly immobilize/evade an enemy.

That's why I hope Carrot joins the crew so we at least have 2 female fighters.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Even if pudding work with the SH that don't make her good.
More like she has a chance to fuck over Big Mom .

 

[Ray Down]

The Yama vs Robin fight was a fluke. Literally every other battle Robin had before and after has either been a team battle or she's used her power to quickly immobilize/evade an enemy.

That's why I hope Carrot joins the crew so we at least have 2 female fighters.

Both Nami and Robin can fight though.

 

[Lunar15]

She didn't heel turn though. None of what happened this chapter makes her a good guy now. Sanji scored a critical hit, that's all.

I didn't say that though. The "heel turn" in that we thought she was nice, but she turned out to have ulterior motives. I'm not concerned that she's turned nice, it's more just that the joke of her being shocked by sanji's kindness is a lame and predictable joke.

I mean, a gag's a gag. It's not going to work for everyone. I personally just don't think Oda earned this gag like he's earned past gags.