It's flavor.
Either way, it's such an insignificant thing that I'm not sure why it's worth attitude. There's actually a lot to complain about with this chapter, people being named after numbers definitely isn't on my list.
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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue
- Thread starter Cloud Strife
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It's flavor.
Either way, it's such an insignificant thing that I'm not sure why it's worth attitude. There's actually a lot to complain about with this chapter, people being named after numbers definitely isn't on my list.
That is not what flavor is either.
It's self referential trivia.
Then why is it worth notice or praise?
maybe you're not a real fan then
Point, but it's not like I would admire this stories I do like. Like, if in Harry Potter, every time a new family member was introduced on a page containing the number 25 (Ron introduced on page 25, his brothers in the next book page 125, the weasely family in book 3 on page 325), I wouldn't find it impressive either.
its not that serious bruh. its a funny chapter.
Oh, are you referring to the chapter number thing? I thought you were just talking about the fact that they all use numbers in their name. Yeah, the chapter number thing is either a coincidence or just trivia.
Yeah, them using numbers for their names is just a thematic naming thing. I'm not particularly impressed with that either, but that's just a one piece thing now. If you are a group that's not part of the strawhats, you have a theme of some kind for whatever reason. Kid with the rockstar theme, the underworld with the card theme, big mom with the alice in wonderland theme....It's just the nature of the beast of OP and I don't really question that even if I don't think much of it.
Why bother making this piece of trivia though...this I just view as being pointlessly meticulous. Oda's subtle nature serves him well when he puts it toward narrative use, but in this case, it's fairly pointless.
RomanceDawn
Member
For once I agree with you on every point. It's like the chapters were Gear 2 or 3 were first revealed and then the numbers switched up for Gear 4. Just a little something Oda threw in.
I am reading for some fishman karate.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Its just something the fandom like to find and bring up whether its a coincidence or not its pretty much a gag within the fandom which after he gets called goda
..u guys suck the fun outta stuff.
..u guys suck the fun outta stuff.
that is what makes it so fun. Going full on detective to see if he referenced something in a previous chapter.
I don't think he means to make a lot of his references serious, just a bone he throws to the fans.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Lol I like seeing people go full detective another recent one was the color spread had the outfits that would later be wore for film gold. I'm sitting there like how did you people notice that lol
right! OP has the most hardcore fans when it comes to that stuff. I would have never caught these things if wasn't for this thread.
Why is this even a complaint? Every story out there does this ranging from ancient to modern. Why would you even consider questioning it?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Speaking of where's romanceDawn at all this sanji/vinsmoke news I wonder if he has anything to add to his theory
it is a Veelk thing.
guess he is discussing theories on one of those onepiece forums.
It shouldn't be a thing whether it's a Veelk thing or not. It's like asking why the Jedi in Star Wars are modeled after samurai. It's because they are. There's no reason to try questioning it or being confused to why they're modeled after samurai. And dont' get me wrong, there's thematic reasons that are put to use with the Jedi in the series, but the same can be said about One Piece and all of it's little references as well.
Not at all. Jedi being visually similar to Samurai characterizes their order in a certain way, evoking a sense of an old warrior. If they were modeled after, say, court jesters, they'd evoke quite a different characterization. Furthermore, they are later established as to why they do the things they do, something I feel I rarely get with OP.
With OP, I typically find that their aesthetics are more arbitrary. Like, Moria's theme of Nightmare Before Christmas doesn't evoke a particularly different kind of characterization than it would if it instead took Big Mom's. It evokes a different atmosphere, but not characterization. As a result, I find it's aesthetic themes much more arbitrary.
eh first part was on point but second paragraph isn't.
A lot of the times the themes of a villain match there personality and characterization in one piece. Then the other times is just a cool theme because
1.they are pirates
2. The crew is going to model themselves after their captain
3. The themes are based off their powers.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
There definitely are, and I think we've seen glimpses already. Sanji is "three o' clock," or the third son, while Yonji is "four o' clock" and is his younger brother, which would make Niji (two o' clock) and Ichiji (one o' clock) his older brothers. Reiji can also mean "midnight" (zero o' clock). Looks like Oda went with "ju" because she's female (and I suppose that's how... clock names... work in the OP world)
Then Sanjidad has a clock beard.
I love the Vinsmokes already. Everyone was joking when they said Ichiji and Niji would be their names but then that actually ended up being their names complete with a clock theme. Not only that, they all have Power Ranger colors. Also of note...
We know that Reiju is Poison Pink, which is self explanatory, but what could Winch Green be? A winch is like a tether or a rope... seems pretty abstract in comparison.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Lol his siblings look more like heroes instead of assasssins
Elaborate on the last point please. In what way does Star Wars outdo One Piece in establishing it's characterization? And if so, why does it matter to the larger story?
Both Moria's theme as well as Big Mom's are both meant to be arbitrary and important to the characters at hand. One Piece operates in the same structure as the Oz books do in that the characters, the setting, and etc. is full of arbitrary elements meant to invoke the readers to get a sense of nostalgia from their childhood and/or invoke the sense of being generally weirded out by the characters. The focus of the Oz books is by and large the central character (most famously Dorothy) getting placed in strange situations and figuring out how to assess that situation.
A story like One Piece and Oz doesn't need the type of characterization that warrants explaining the intricate details to why characters are a certain way. We already get that with the core cast aka the Strawhats and some of the side characters like Law. However, the characters that are "arbitrary" are important to the characters at hand because they create different challenges for the characters to assess that leads to character interactions that involve humor, character growth, drama, and action sequences. Of course by and large why these characters have these "arbitrary" features in the first place is due to Oda's various influences in the real world. But again, why is that an issue? Every story ever made has arbitrary influences. Even real life is full of arbitrary influences. Why did the Greeks wear togas that looked the way they did? Because they could. It could've been tailored differently, but it wasn't, because it wasn't in their fashion sense to do so. Why did people in ancient times believe that turtles carried the Earth on it's back? Because they could. They could've believed it was giant rats instead, but nope.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Wait wait. I was re-reading the chapter, and Reiju has 0-esque designs on her cloak and clothing, but on her legs is the number... 6?
This is fascinating. Maybe there's a Goji as well? Or is it 6 just as in "Germa 66?"
This is fascinating. Maybe there's a Goji as well? Or is it 6 just as in "Germa 66?"
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Nah I'm thinking the two sixes are tattoos to represent germs 66Wait wait. I was re-reading the chapter, and Reiju has 0-esque designs on her cloak and clothing, but on her legs is the number... 6?
This is fascinating. Maybe there's a Goji as well? Or is it 6 just as in "Germa 66?"
Imperial Bishop
Banned
It's more of fun running joke within the One Piece community.
"This number equals x which ties back to y and Oda planned it all bbqftw"
Nothing to take so serious.
They are all Sentai heroes.
Maybe another time. It's not a debating point I'm particularly invested in and I'm currently busy anyway. My main point of that was that I didn't see the point of trivia like naming referencing Sanji's intro chapter. It's a layer of meticulousness that is impressive in itself, but not really purposeful to the story. I only talked about the larger aesthetic themes of general groups as a point of clarification.
I don't feel it would be particularly helpful to go into the minutia of SW though. There has been plenty of literature that detailed every single detail present in the SW films, and there's a lot of inference material in the films themselves. And It's a vastly different kind of story than OP is, lets not forget. It's hard to isolate any one element and meaningfully contrast it.
Yeah, that does absolutely nothing for me. I've never had an instance within a story that referenced some other external story (or object in general) unless they put that to good use within the narrative of the ongoing story itself, not just in OP, but in any manga, comic, game, book or movie. It's not an effective narrative technique unless you incorporate it properly. Stuff like Moria's theme just tell me "Oda saw Nightmare Before Christmas and decided to play around with the aesthetic", but it didn't meaningfully use NBC elements in itself. YMMV on what is 'meaningful', so you might disagree, which is fine, but I feel like I get a lot less out of what OP does than how SW took the archtype of a samurai, and implemented it's own twist on not just the aesthetic, but the actual characterization to make turn it into it's own identity.
Uh...no, they all had reasons for that. Reasons that would require me to go hunt down probably hard to find anthropological data that I have neither the time nor inclination to find, reasons that anthropologists may have never even fully discovered, but for every cultural norm, there is an explanation somewhere out there. People don't just 'randomly choose' something as culturally significant as creation myths. Toga's are easier to explain. My guess would be a combination of available material, climate, and ease of making. But nobody just went "Hey, guys, why don't we all just wear togas?!" out of no where, for no reason, and went along with it. That's ridiculous. And it's why I find OP's world to be so unconvincing. Everything just....is, with little explanatory power behind it. It makes for a world with very weak verisimilitude, and as a result it's impossible, despite my best efforts, for me to actually invest in it.
Hm...fair enough, I guess, I thought people were seriously going Goda in this case. And, again, don't get me wrong, it's impressive he remembers this stuff, it's just pointless in this case.
You can break down anything like people have broken Star Wars down, One Piece included. Stories are made up of ideas afterall, and all ideas stem from something, somewhere, sometime. Every idea has some significance to the story if that idea manages to resonate with the audience in some form or another, which is by and large the goal of storytelling in the first place.
The problem you're facing here is that you're expecting something that's completely unnecessary to tell the story at hand. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for Oda to explain why Geckoh Moria looks like a character from Nightmare Before Christimas in any context to the story. Oda wasn't trying to accomplish that more-so than he was trying to accomplish the Oz formula I spoke about; which is, creating strange obstacles for the protagonists to get through to move the story forward. That's the goal of Geckoh Moria, Big Mom, Doflamingo Pirate, Baroque Works, the CP9, and similar villain groups as well as corresponding locations. One Piece doesn't try to explain the intricacies of why characters are designed a certain way, because One Piece has no defined rules or guidelines to how characters are supposed to look or behave other than the established character arcs of the Strawhat Pirates and various other active side characters. It isn't necessary for a story to even divulge such information to be a great story.
I never said the choice is random, but the things I listed are genuinely arbitrary or lead to arbitrary things. Giving arbitrary reasons does not make it less arbitrary in it's nature.
If something is based in arbitrary reasons, it's functionally random.
Whatever the reasons people chose to believe the earth was on the back of a turtle, it wasn't arbitrary. It was based on whatever was meaningful to them. Wearing a toga was practical. We only perceive them as arbitrary as we are outsiders of their cultures, but no, those things were chosen for precise, well supported reasons within their community, whatever they were.
Well, good that you percieve it that way, I guess. For me, those are major issues that interfere with the verisimilitude of the world, which I feel is the most important part of pretty much any story. Implementing things meaningfully, having them have some kind of explanatory power behind them, is important, and I definitely don't think of OP a great story when it lacks it. Having it wouldn't fix all my problems with OP, but it would do a lot.
The function of the toga was practical, but the actual design itself didn't need to look the way it did. The design is arbitrary, not the clothing itself. Even if there's a reason behind it, it's functionally the same reason you're suggesting the character design themes in One Piece are arbitrary in that they're based on something but don't ever get put to use in the context of what it's based on. But like clothing, they're functional and serve a purpose. They're not supposed to be anything more than that.
There isn't a single fictional story ever made that has a functional and truly believable world by your standards, then. Because you're more concerned with the meaning behind a character's clothing aesthetic and the aesthetic of a location rather than what those function to the story itself. If you're concerned about why a character looks like a cowboy in a science fiction story, then you're missing the entire point of why those clashing elements are there in the first place.; ultimately to be strange and outlandish.
But there's a difference between getting a 'sense' of an origin and not having an origin at all. With OP, I feel everything just, arbitrarily, is. Based on what I knew about Greece (it's climate) as well it's history, and so on, I can get a sense of it's history, even if I don't know the exact reason, I know there IS a reason. I don't think there is a reason with much of OP's design.
If you're taking my meaning to have a character sit down and explain each article of clothings origin, then yeah, but that's not what I'm talking about. We just used it as an exaggerated example because those are simplest to explain a general concept.
Stories like Better Call Saul, which are already based in the real world and follow strict real world rules for the most part come with this sense of verisimilitude built in, because the reasons why things are the way they are in that fiction are the same why they are in real life, and it's strengthened by the shows understanding of the New Mexico legal system. Meanwhile, there are many fantasy and sci-fi and otherwise fantasist series go out of their way to world build in various ways, from outright infodumping to casually mentioning seperate clothing, food, customs in different areas. It has reasons why things are the way they are all over. All that works to create a genuine sense of being.
Now, has there ever been a perfect 1:1 simulation of reality? No shit, no, because then we'd have entered the matrix. A scale model of something is always going to be an imperfect version of something, and that's what a story fundamentally is to a hypothetical experience. But of the many fictional series I've read, OP is among the least believable worlds I've ever seen, and that's a huge problem for me. I can work with a series, meet it halfway, to get immersed in it, but I've found it an impossibility with OP because it doesn't even try to make it's world believable.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
One Piece is zany for the purpose of being zany and it's intentional. You can complain about it, but I hope you realize you're dampening everyone else's enjoyment in this thread when you go on these rants. You're preaching to the anti-choir, here.
I literally cannot be more neutral about this than I am being now. Big One is the one who has initiated this discussion, after I made it clear that I intended to let it lie after nitpicking the 043 piece of trivia. I'm not responding to his full posts because I'm busy with something else, and I'm even careful to phrase everything in a subjective statement, that it doesn't work 'for me' and it's perfectly alright if it works for you guys. This isn't a even rant, it's a straightforward question-response debate. Big One believes one thing, I another, and he's grilling me to try to find a weakness with my argument by asking questions. It's a basic tactic that virtually every thread on gaf engages in.
I can't even tell if I'm asking this sincerely or rhetorically, but definitely exasperatedly: What the hell am I supposed to do to not step on anyone's toes while expressing my opinions here? I'm willing to be accommodating, and I've stayed silent on a lot of stuff because I know it's pointless to bicker over every little thing that annoys me about OP, but it feels like any negative word from me about OP is dampening the mood.
Edit: Okay, look, it doesn't matter. Some users here find me alright, and some don't, and that's fine by me, because I'm not convinced I'm not doing anything wrong. If there is an actual thing you want me to do to be more considerate and polite, I'll do it. But I think I'm already doing all I can, and it's just the fact that I don't like OP in general that much and am stating so, even though it's at the prompting of another user, that you find issue with. That, I cannot help, because the alternative is you're just asking me not participate, and I don't think that's a fair request of anyone. But yeah, if you have some specific suggestion on what to do, I'm all ears otherwise.
Edit 2: and this all isn't antagonistic, just kind of exasperated. No idea how else I'm supposed to phrase stuff here, you know?
Bots are better than you
Banned
So, if this clock-naming-theme would be true ... does this mean that Sanji could have 11 siblings tin total? Sanji's parents were really diligent then.
Didn't Jinbe already get a sad backstory?
I guess actually it was more of Fisher Tiger's sad backstory now that I think about it.
Dat Reiju. She didn't kiss Luffy btw, but she did probably tongue fuck his insides
Either way, Hancock probably got extremely angry all of a sudden wherever she is and doesn't even know why, like when you sneeze if someone gossips about you Funny to see the whole Sanji family naming thing finally confirmed after all these years of speculation. Wonder how many more brothers and sisters Sanji has. And since Germa 66 has been invited to the reverie, will they be able to attend Sanji's wedding? Are they still happening concurrently? And with the family being so technologically advanced, I wonder if they have a connection with Vegapunk...
And great to see Aladdin again. Hope we see more of the Sun pirates so Jinbei can ally them properly with the Strawhats.
inb4 that's my fetish!
Funny to see the whole Sanji family naming thing finally confirmed after all these years of speculation. Wonder how many more brothers and sisters Sanji has. And since Germa 66 has been invited to the reverie, will they be able to attend Sanji's wedding? Are they still happening concurrently? And with the family being so technologically advanced, I wonder if they have a connection with Vegapunk...And great to see Aladdin again. Hope we see more of the Sun pirates so Jinbei can ally them properly with the Strawhats.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Honestly Yonji is by far my fav aspect of this chapter. He's a much more brazen and headstrong Sanji with a great design. Love how he wears his cape sideways, lol. I bet he has insecurity issues that contribute to his standoffish personality - Reiju didn't seem to treat him with much respect.
Bots are better than you
Banned
Maybe the lower your "number"-name, the lower you rank among the siblings? Or just simply elder sibling overpowering younger sibling.
Just imagine if Sanji was named Naruto like originally intended
Does that mean Yonji was originally Boruto?
More Fun To Compute
Member
He very much seems to be working some sort of cheesy Super Sentai parody into this arc. Sanji already has his Sentai colour code, Black Leg. Honestly I find Jinbe and Big Mom more interesting but the start of arcs always seem less interesting to me. Takes time to add enough details for new characters to seem worthwhile.
And how about the 66? You do a quick 6+6=12, 12 hours on a clock? Maybe?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
That's very possible! We'll have to wait and see. I hope there aren't 12 siblings, though - that'd be a bit much.
Sanji with both eyes visible is weirding me out.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Actually I like it! That should be his look after this arcThat's very possible! We'll have to wait and see. I hope there aren't 12 siblings, though - that'd be a bit much.
Sanji with both eyes visible is weirding me out.
Edit: not worth it
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