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Orange is the New Black - Season 2 on Netflix - *Spoilers for all of S2*
- Thread starter Cornballer
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sixteen-bit
Member
Me all this weekend.
lol, pensatucky was in this movie
krameriffic
Member
It was a really good final episode. For me, the way things came together was really excellent, and it helped to ratchet the comedy up another notch. So much of the show can feel aimless with too much of a focus on characters who I don't care about, but enough stuff finally happened that really mattered that the show got a lot better.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I feel that season 2 is weaker--or at least less impactful--than the first season, largely because I find it to be a less cohesive work. Obviously when you have an ensemble cast it's quite difficult to ensure that there's a wide variety of character pairings emerging organically rather than being shoehorned, but I felt as though season 2 felt more explicitly segmented than the first season and that hurt the experience of feelling like I was "in" the prison.
I will spoiler tag plot elements that begin in season 2, but not general themes. I am not spoilering plot elements from season 1. I am not spoilering character names or very general observations about the size of their role in the season. Everything that is spoiled is spoiled through the end of the season.
Themes that I felt worked:
- Piper's relationship with her ex-fiancée Larry, but I am not confident that there's much worth exploring here going forward. Other than the season premiere, I don't feel like Piper really learned or experienced much this season. Having adjusted to prison, she now has relatively little to contribute to the audience's engagement.
- Chronic underfunding of the prison and corruption - although I felt that this hewed a bit too narrowly; what could have been a discussion of systematic issues in prison funding became a relatively narrow
- Growing old in prison, and the overall lack of support for inmates facing age or health challenges
- What it means to be a good person trying to effect change in a system laden by inertia. Healey, Piper, Bennett, Caputo, Figueroa, Pennsatucky, Sister Jane, and to a lesser extent Soso explore this. I want to see more of it. One of the best scenes for me was
- Everything involving Morello.
- Everything involving Rosa.
- The C-story running throughout the season involving Ruiz and her boyfriend/husband/baby daddy on the outside.
- Poussey; although I felt her flashbacks were a little messy, this actress is quite talented and beautiful and the way
- Vignettes involving the bigger male CO and the sort of tough, butchy female cop. Both characters are occasionally used for sort of gross-out comic relief, but when they aren't, they provide very interesting perspectives. The plotline with the male CO in the last episode is excellent and reminds me a little bit of Kohan's sharper digs in Weeds.
- Reconciling Healey's hatred for lesbians with his otherwise less cruel demeanor by having him
was great. It really gave the impression of an otherwise-normal dude with a serious hangup.
Things that I thought required a little more elaboration:
- Boo's motivations; she's a great actress and an interesting character, but her most pivotal plot role in the season goes unexplained and unexplored until a contrived appearance in the final episode.
- Nicky. Setting aside her character's nymphomania, everything about her story appears to be Natasha Lyonne. So I was hoping they'd get more material. Occasionally notes felt good, and I think the performance is fine, but her character deserves more involvement in the thick of things.
- Morello's racial hangups. They keep having Morello do or say plainly racist things and no one really bothers to stop and question it. Maybe this is supposed to be commentary on how racism is so thoroughly embedded in prison that it becomes invisible, but it feels more underdeveloped.
- Alex's comments on absent parole officers and lack of post-prison support systems.
- Sophia. She was a standout in the first season and as an issue her issues are both timely and interesting. Squandered this season.
Things that I thought didn't work:
- Daya's storylines; both her relationship with the women around her and especially the storyline involving her pregnancy. They didn't feel logical or realistic, her character is written very unsympathetically, she's detached from everything else going on in the prison, and she has no character outside of her pregnancy. Unmitigated failure.
- The first episode of the season plays to none of the show's strengths and all of its weaknesses. The
felt more like something out of Weeds' more cartoonish moments. It was only when the episode ended that I realized it wasn't a dream because so many moments felt poorly elaborated on, confusing, disorienting, or sort of vaguely magical. Even the running theme of having to pee is a common trope used to represent dreaming. For a show that feels very believable, this didn't. I hate blaming a director because television isn't really a director's medium, but I feel like Foster didn't do a strong job here.
- Excessive focus on the mechanical execution of prison smuggling. I get that it's a major storyline, and I liked most of the character beats, but the season really got bogged down with just too much story connected directly to this. If you try to retrace all the steps that actually occurred in this plot, it's just too much. You don't need 25 plot beats to tell a satisfying season long arc.
- The Latina role in the conflict between the other factions in the main plot of season 2, and the kitchen more generally. I don't think time was judiciously used here. Lots of time, little payoff, a bunch of pretty non-descript characters.
- Pennsatucky; I have no idea why she was promoted from recurring to a main cast member. She gets essentially no screen time, her two main plot beats (her old friends are jerks to her + her back-half plot
) are totally half-baked. Mostly it seems like they found her performance and character scary and memorable in season 1, but they didn't give her material this time around.
- Crazy Eyes; The manic intensity of her performance in season 1 gave way to a pretty flat and uninteresting space case. I don't want to see her Homerized. I thought she was at her best in season 1 when she put Piper in her place, and suddenly the one we thought was crazy actually seemed saner than the character we thought was sane. In season 2, she's definitely crazy. Reducing her to nervous tics really robs the character of any sense of surprise.
- Figueroa's
. It's telegraphed so plainly earlier in the season. It's executed in such a cliché way. Her subsequent meltdown is well done, but come on.
- The younger, skinny, shy CO's story.
- Mendez / "Pornstache";
Wow that's more than I intended to write.
This is still a show that I think is very well done with a lot of interesting and thoughtful meditations on important issues that TV should explore. It's also filled with a fabulously diverse cast, many of whom seem to bring parts of themselves to the table. I just don't feel like the execution was quite there this season the way it was last.
(If you're going to reply please don't quote all of this, and especially not one line at a time responding to each, I don't want to nuke the thread.)
I will spoiler tag plot elements that begin in season 2, but not general themes. I am not spoilering plot elements from season 1. I am not spoilering character names or very general observations about the size of their role in the season. Everything that is spoiled is spoiled through the end of the season.
Themes that I felt worked:
- Piper's relationship with her ex-fiancée Larry, but I am not confident that there's much worth exploring here going forward. Other than the season premiere, I don't feel like Piper really learned or experienced much this season. Having adjusted to prison, she now has relatively little to contribute to the audience's engagement.
- Chronic underfunding of the prison and corruption - although I felt that this hewed a bit too narrowly; what could have been a discussion of systematic issues in prison funding became a relatively narrow
- Growing old in prison, and the overall lack of support for inmates facing age or health challenges
- What it means to be a good person trying to effect change in a system laden by inertia. Healey, Piper, Bennett, Caputo, Figueroa, Pennsatucky, Sister Jane, and to a lesser extent Soso explore this. I want to see more of it. One of the best scenes for me was
Caputo visiting the hunger strikers, quickly assessing that most of the demands were superfluous, stressing his commitment to resolving actual quality of life issues, and then leaving. Professional, humane, and responsible.
The tension of the house break-in is very palpable, but the real payoff is in her flashback episode. After two seasons of hearing her go on like a love-struck Grease character, we get the build-up of her and Christopher's relationships, her planning to go on a weekend vacation, and then... wait, he's testifying in court? "He's so dramatic". Holy shit. That's the absolute high point of the season.
The cut that happens as she drives the van away at the end of the season and reverts to her younger self is very splendid. It very much embodies the relief and freedom we might imagine that she would feel. What's interesting here is that many of the show's most sympathetic characters are either repentant about their crimes or at least had sympathetic motivations for doing them. Rosa is unrepentant and has a very glamorous view of her crimes, right until the end. I thought her flashbacks really captured the sort of romance of Bonnie and Clyde, which is both a triumph on the part of the show and a little disturbing when you consider the real-life impact of those types of crimes.
This one really sneaks up on you, because the first few vignettes are played for laughs, with her babbling on to the baby and about all sorts of nonsense and the guy just sitting there in stern silence; but when they ramp it up and it becomes clear that he's not a shitheel, he's just in over his head and emotionally wrecked by her incarceration and later the risk of her transfer. The two vignettes back to back where she yells at him to talk to the baby... and then the next time he visits he's smiling and talking to the baby and to her about the future. Man, devastating.
she struggles with her attractive to Taystee which is not reciprocated, as well as the way she is the emotional core of the Vee story by virtue of being the audience's clearest guide to the fact that Vee is manipulating the other characters, both touched me.
- Reconciling Healey's hatred for lesbians with his otherwise less cruel demeanor by having him
hawk some lunatic anti-feminist book and go on a rant about the decline of men in society
Things that I thought required a little more elaboration:
- Boo's motivations; she's a great actress and an interesting character, but her most pivotal plot role in the season goes unexplained and unexplored until a contrived appearance in the final episode.
- Nicky. Setting aside her character's nymphomania, everything about her story appears to be Natasha Lyonne. So I was hoping they'd get more material. Occasionally notes felt good, and I think the performance is fine, but her character deserves more involvement in the thick of things.
- Morello's racial hangups. They keep having Morello do or say plainly racist things and no one really bothers to stop and question it. Maybe this is supposed to be commentary on how racism is so thoroughly embedded in prison that it becomes invisible, but it feels more underdeveloped.
- Alex's comments on absent parole officers and lack of post-prison support systems.
- Sophia. She was a standout in the first season and as an issue her issues are both timely and interesting. Squandered this season.
Things that I thought didn't work:
- Daya's storylines; both her relationship with the women around her and especially the storyline involving her pregnancy. They didn't feel logical or realistic, her character is written very unsympathetically, she's detached from everything else going on in the prison, and she has no character outside of her pregnancy. Unmitigated failure.
- The first episode of the season plays to none of the show's strengths and all of its weaknesses. The
cockroach smoke smuggling
- Excessive focus on the mechanical execution of prison smuggling. I get that it's a major storyline, and I liked most of the character beats, but the season really got bogged down with just too much story connected directly to this. If you try to retrace all the steps that actually occurred in this plot, it's just too much. You don't need 25 plot beats to tell a satisfying season long arc.
- The Latina role in the conflict between the other factions in the main plot of season 2, and the kitchen more generally. I don't think time was judiciously used here. Lots of time, little payoff, a bunch of pretty non-descript characters.
- Pennsatucky; I have no idea why she was promoted from recurring to a main cast member. She gets essentially no screen time, her two main plot beats (her old friends are jerks to her + her back-half plot
involving her bonding with Healey and sort of engaging in self-reflection
- Crazy Eyes; The manic intensity of her performance in season 1 gave way to a pretty flat and uninteresting space case. I don't want to see her Homerized. I thought she was at her best in season 1 when she put Piper in her place, and suddenly the one we thought was crazy actually seemed saner than the character we thought was sane. In season 2, she's definitely crazy. Reducing her to nervous tics really robs the character of any sense of surprise.
- Figueroa's
gay husband
- The younger, skinny, shy CO's story.
Her interactions with Caputo worked as all of his material did this season, but then randomly firing her didn't really pay off
Wasted opportunity.
Wow that's more than I intended to write.
This is still a show that I think is very well done with a lot of interesting and thoughtful meditations on important issues that TV should explore. It's also filled with a fabulously diverse cast, many of whom seem to bring parts of themselves to the table. I just don't feel like the execution was quite there this season the way it was last.
(If you're going to reply please don't quote all of this, and especially not one line at a time responding to each, I don't want to nuke the thread.)
BoboBrazil
Member
So the goal of this show is to hate Piper right? She has no redeeming qualities at all. I just finished season 2 and thought it was very good. Overall I'd say I liked it better than season 1. Damn Polly has some nice tits.
Black Republican
Member
the ending of Ep 8, ohhhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
what a great season so far, really surprised the backstories are even better than S1's
Hes motherfuckin back!
what a great season so far, really surprised the backstories are even better than S1's
Femmeworth
Banned
Season three better be the Sophia and Nicky Show. Laverne Cox must have had scheduling issues or something because it doesn't make sense why they wouldn't have included her more this season. I haven't watched the finale but Vee and Sophia aren't even in a scene together.
I wonder if each season is going to focus on a different group. First season was the whites, this season was the black ladies, next season focus on the Latinas. I'd love to get some more insight into them.
I enjoyed this season even though it didn't see to have the highs of last season, but that's probably because it had so much to live up to. I really don't mind having a ton of characters that don't get a lot of screen time but are just there for a moment or two. Like Stump said above, the small plot with the woman and her silent boyfriend had an amazing payoff that I absolutely did not see coming.
I'm probably in the minority but I'm looking forward to having Alex back next season. I was never all that crazy about Hot Donna but for some reason, Alex makes me happy. Their dynamic will be weird, especially when she realizes that Piper is the reason she got busted. I also hope to see more of Nicky and a return to Taystee and Poussey as bffs.
I also thought it was pretty awesome that they went all out for Morello's backstory. It was noted in the first season that there were problems in her "relationship" with Cristopher but damn. I think it's worth noting that the show gave someone a backstory that wasn't so sympathetic like most of the others but could still humanize her.
I guess the only story I didn't care for was the nuns. I'm not sure why but it was easily my least favorite. Even Soso was more interesting.
I enjoyed this season even though it didn't see to have the highs of last season, but that's probably because it had so much to live up to. I really don't mind having a ton of characters that don't get a lot of screen time but are just there for a moment or two. Like Stump said above, the small plot with the woman and her silent boyfriend had an amazing payoff that I absolutely did not see coming.
I'm probably in the minority but I'm looking forward to having Alex back next season. I was never all that crazy about Hot Donna but for some reason, Alex makes me happy. Their dynamic will be weird, especially when she realizes that Piper is the reason she got busted. I also hope to see more of Nicky and a return to Taystee and Poussey as bffs.
I also thought it was pretty awesome that they went all out for Morello's backstory. It was noted in the first season that there were problems in her "relationship" with Cristopher but damn. I think it's worth noting that the show gave someone a backstory that wasn't so sympathetic like most of the others but could still humanize her.
I guess the only story I didn't care for was the nuns. I'm not sure why but it was easily my least favorite. Even Soso was more interesting.
Sapiens
Member
So
, is Rosa some kind of shapeshifting vampire who's power was being drained by the chemo and the oppressive nature of the prison? Kind of weird for the show to go all True Blood at the end there.
The only other hint at the supernatural was with the candles/curse and then later on with the potion.
Can we expect young Rosa to come back in season 3?
The only other hint at the supernatural was with the candles/curse and then later on with the potion.
Can we expect young Rosa to come back in season 3?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I don't think it was shape shifting.
It was some spooky age reversal trick.
I can't wait to see where she ends up though.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
lol
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You know, normally I'd laugh, but there was a guy in the Breaking Bad finale thread (spoilers for the Breaking Bad finale)
who actually thought that the ending was open-ended because we didn't know if Walt lived or died. Even though he was days away from death from cancer, off his meds, preparing to die, said goodbye to everyone, got shot in the gut, stumbled, the song in the background playing said "you get what you deserve", and the final shot of the show has him collapsing onto the floor as the camera pulls up through the rafters like a soul leaving a body. Yes but what if the very next thing that happened was that a doctor got there and saved his life and the cancer went into remission what then????
Cornballer
Member
Woodchipper
Member
I loved Weeds. Will I like this series?
Femmeworth
Banned
Maybe? I haven't watched Weeds but I get the impression that they are similar in tone.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Finished the season.
I really liked it for a lot of reasons
BUT
I can see this thing starting to rock back and forth on its rails in lots of the same ways that Weeds used to do.
I'm starting to think it's a question of whether Kohan's learned any lessons from that show's decline, or if the show ends before the imminent derailing.
I really liked it for a lot of reasons
BUT
I can see this thing starting to rock back and forth on its rails in lots of the same ways that Weeds used to do.
I'm starting to think it's a question of whether Kohan's learned any lessons from that show's decline, or if the show ends before the imminent derailing.
flaxknuckles
Member
"Is it cold for Amazon to underprice books just to capture market share?"
??????????????????THE FUCK????????????????????
??????????????????THE FUCK????????????????????
I haven't watched Weeds, what problems did the show have?
Im fairly certain this is left open ended to some extent... the Breaking Bad story is over once walt gets caught not when he gets killed..... so walts story did end it didnt necessarily end with his death
After you saw the first 2 or so seasons, you've basically seen it all.
And_Gignac
Member
Overall a weaker season than S1 (episodes from 5 to 9 were a drag, I was almost about to stop watching) but maaaan that season finale
and overall all the story line of Rosa. I love her, seriously my favorite character in the whole show. That ending was magnificent, the shape shifting, the music, the "let me go out with a bang". I loved it.
Diprosalic
Banned
hated Weeds, love this.
I just started watching this - will take a two week break since I'll be out of town for work and I'm not watching this on a phone or a laptop.
I really liked the first episode until the end
.
I'm also watching episode 2 right now, and it's just a technical thing, but the obvious ADR (redubbing) they had to do on Pennsatucky is so poorly meshed with the scenes that it's horrendously distracting
. I wonder what Taryn Manning was doing with the voice to warrant the ADR - if it wasn't a technical problem - maybe playing up her loss of even more teeth too much in the initial recording?
I really liked the first episode until the end
when Piper makes yet another boneheaded decision.
I'm also watching episode 2 right now, and it's just a technical thing, but the obvious ADR (redubbing) they had to do on Pennsatucky is so poorly meshed with the scenes that it's horrendously distracting
this is a huge problem in the scene in Healey's office when she first appears
Steelyuhas
Member
Episodes 8 and 9
Pornstache's return to the prison was just the right level of absurd, loved that!
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
My biggest complaint about the show is often they use the sound cell door being shut sound effect that is directly ripped from GoldenEye for Nintendo 64. It's played like every 2 minutes, almost makes it unwatchable.
Listen for yourself: The sound is around the 1:20 mark in the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K9ccetBFLc
Listen for yourself: The sound is around the 1:20 mark in the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K9ccetBFLc
blue_phazon
Member
Episode 1:
I was also pretty tired and it was hard to focus lol
Uh...can someone explained what happened at the end? Piper was supposed to tell the truth that she knew the guy to get less time in prison or something, right? So why did she say the opposite, and what did Alex do? I'm so confused.
Continued Episode 1
Piper was supposed to tell the truth to aid the persecutors for the case. On the way to the courthouse, Alex convinced her to lie since the guy was a druglord not above killing the two of 'em out of revenge. In order for lying to work, both of 'em would have to lie, otherwise their stories wouldn't work. So Piper lies. Alex then tells the truth, having been convinced to do so in order to lessen her sentence. Alex gets to walk, Piper doesn't.
real_slime
Banned
Just finished the season. It was fine. Basically how I felt about the first season - mostly fine, with a few really low points, but generally ambles along in it's light drama kinda way.
Anyone else annoyed by how pop-reference heavy the dialogue is in the show? It really takes me out of the world when, like, Flaca is talking about Morrisey and all those little instances where characters who basically wouldn't say this stuff are saying it basically just cos the writers think it's a funny or quirky reference to make. It just comes off are stupid. Similarly Flaca (dunno why I'm picking up on her so much) and that whole bit about the difference between 'could care less' and 'couldn't care less' was so dumb. It wasn't just her - that conversation with Piper and someone else I forgot who was a good example of how transparent and artificial the dialogue on this show can be at times.
Also yeah,
Character like-to-boring gradient:
My favourite characters were Nicki, Morello, Piper, Red, Rosa, Vee, the Kirsten Schaal looking guard whose name I never caught. Soso was okay. . Healy is a hilarious MRA. Caputo's actor is charasmatic.
Flaca and her friend are fucking gorgeous and I have a thing for Natasha Lyonne.
Well I've run out of steam to write about this. Anyway, yeah, decent show. Had good moments. Will watch season 3.
Anyone else annoyed by how pop-reference heavy the dialogue is in the show? It really takes me out of the world when, like, Flaca is talking about Morrisey and all those little instances where characters who basically wouldn't say this stuff are saying it basically just cos the writers think it's a funny or quirky reference to make. It just comes off are stupid. Similarly Flaca (dunno why I'm picking up on her so much) and that whole bit about the difference between 'could care less' and 'couldn't care less' was so dumb. It wasn't just her - that conversation with Piper and someone else I forgot who was a good example of how transparent and artificial the dialogue on this show can be at times.
Also yeah,
Piper's episode 1 monologue was very bad. I don't blame it on the actress, though. The writing is extremely blunt and is basically like I AM SAD BECAUSE I MIGHT HAVE KILLED SOMEONE AND I DON'T KNOW IF SOMETHING BAD GREW INSIDE ME OR IF I ALWAYS HAD IT IN ME THAT'S MY INTERNAL CONFLICT OH MY GOD. I think I'm even underplaying how blunt it was.
Character like-to-boring gradient:
My favourite characters were Nicki, Morello, Piper, Red, Rosa, Vee, the Kirsten Schaal looking guard whose name I never caught. Soso was okay. . Healy is a hilarious MRA. Caputo's actor is charasmatic.
Taystee and Poussay were good at the start but as the Vee story amped up, they became less fun to watch - that's fine, they weren't my favourite part of the show. Suzanne as Vee's muscle was kind of a shame.
Actually forget the gradient - I really enjoyed Red and Vee's rivalry but come to think of it Vee kinda cannibalised all the black characters on the show. Since Vee was clearly the villain it made them all villainous by extension which means for almost the whole season a character like Suzanne wasn't really herself which was a bit of a waste.
Actually forget the gradient - I really enjoyed Red and Vee's rivalry but come to think of it Vee kinda cannibalised all the black characters on the show. Since Vee was clearly the villain it made them all villainous by extension which means for almost the whole season a character like Suzanne wasn't really herself which was a bit of a waste.
Flaca and her friend are fucking gorgeous and I have a thing for Natasha Lyonne.
Well I've run out of steam to write about this. Anyway, yeah, decent show. Had good moments. Will watch season 3.
hahahaha I know what you mean it distracts me for the exact same reason every time it's used!
They honestly got me to hate Vee because (overall season spoilers)
Still a good season. I enjoyed it, but I feel like the writer's intentions were to purposely change the dynamics with a great deal of characters.
she fucked up so many characters I liked. Suzanne is probably my favorite character, and I think her arc this season was pretty much wasted compared to the first season. I also love Taystee and Watson, and their charm was mostly squandered as well.
Still a good season. I enjoyed it, but I feel like the writer's intentions were to purposely change the dynamics with a great deal of characters.
Finished it yesterday. Overall I enjoyed it more than Season 1. I think it's a very strong finish, but I'm wondering if they can keep it going. I kind of feel like the stories that were there to tell were told, and we don't really need to revisit most of the recurring characters' anymore.
Ovreall I really liked: Gloria, Rosa, Vee, surprisingly Soso and thought they were the standout characters in this season.
I also feel like SPOILERS ABOUT LAST FEW EPISODES:
Ovreall I really liked: Gloria, Rosa, Vee, surprisingly Soso and thought they were the standout characters in this season.
I also feel like SPOILERS ABOUT LAST FEW EPISODES:
Maybe they should have just let Piper get on that plane. It really feels like as a character she's learned nothing. Yes, prison has changed her but she's still the childish, over-privileged girl that she was in Season 1, just less attached to the outside world. And while initially I thought Soso was going to take her place and serve as her foil I found myself liking Soso much more than Piper.
Also disappointed that the Administration story ended the way that it did. I kind of wanted to see the campaign fallout a bit. Maybe in Season 3.
Also disappointed that the Administration story ended the way that it did. I kind of wanted to see the campaign fallout a bit. Maybe in Season 3.
JonathanEx
Member
Ep6:
"Would the moon do this?" is my new favourite line and I think it should be said before attempting any stupid thing.
Not much. Felt like a couple months at most.
I don't know what it is about that show, but every episode has my attention from start to finish. There's no low points for me (even this bad
storyline), I'm always entertained.
It helps that each character fascinate me.
I'm on episode 11, and I don't want it this season to end so quick.
Larry + Paulie
It helps that each character fascinate me.
I'm on episode 11, and I don't want it this season to end so quick.
Buckethead
Banned
Episode 12
Did Vee really have sex with her son or was it a son-like figure? I never got that
Son like figure. Don't unspoil the next part if you haven't watched the next episode.
It displays her tendency to gain the trust of her target, make them vulnerable, and strike when they least expect it.
TheVampire
Banned
I think Piper has 8 months left?
- Status