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Orange is the New Black - Season 2 on Netflix - *Spoilers for all of S2*
- Thread starter Cornballer
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She's so rude
YES ROSA YES
O'neill is also the hero we deserve. Move along sisters.
That kid looks cg.
Am I the only one who didn't like Vee's character, as a villian I mean?
I know we're supposed to hate her, but I just don't believe that Watson and Cindy would stick with her for so long when she's systematically ousting each and every one of "her girls". Not to mention how she kept talking about how the black women used to run the place, and she only ever bothered to talk to 5 of them.
The ending was very satisfying regardless.
I know we're supposed to hate her, but I just don't believe that Watson and Cindy would stick with her for so long when she's systematically ousting each and every one of "her girls". Not to mention how she kept talking about how the black women used to run the place, and she only ever bothered to talk to 5 of them.
The ending was very satisfying regardless.
Actually a bomb pop is a popciscle not ice cream so RJ was lying. That's why he got killed.
My biggest problem was that it was all so predictable, every episode became "I wonder how Vee will alienate another one of her posse today", but the beginning of the story was very strong, and her manipulation of Suzanne was great(and heartbreaking).
Vee is a straight-up psychopath. There's actually just no story to tell there. All emotion is a lie designed to manipulate.
I'm disappointed we never saw her downfall on the outside, or at least her slide into irrelevancy before deciding she had to go back to prison as a last ditch effort at recognition.
Would have helped humanize her a bit more, we only heard her talk about getting old, and she still had enough power/influence to have RJ killed. Its kinda sad she felt the need to go to prison to feel good about herself, but we never really had a chance to sympathize with her like the others.
Just want to add that Morello KILLED IT this season.
indigo-cyclops
Member
I think the last conversation her 'girls' had with her particularly vindicates why there was no side to her story. She's absolutely a complete psychopath with no redeeming qualities.
She's my favorite on the show besides Piper. Yael is a fantastic actress and her character is so interesting. Was definitely a sad episode when the reality became clear.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
yeah, I was really impressed by Yael's performance as well. The early-season phone conversation was really impressive.
I liked that every character was given more focus this season, but at the end of the day I felt that the Vee story fell flat. The second half of this season felt a little too "Weeds" to me, in a bad way. The Caputo blowjob scene was definitely one. Just the idea that Vee was a villain who would die the way she did was lame to me. I wanted more closure than her just dying. No characters gained much from this season.
I missed Piper. I hope the next season focuses on her MORE. I feel that the transition from her as a main character to the ensemble approach was too jarring. Her story was uninteresting this time, but solely because they gave her nothing to work with. I love the actress that plays her and I sympathize with her plight a lot. I also love that she is able to maintain relationships with many people within the prison. I like Piper a lot.
I loved learning more about Morello, but we lost focus off some of the more interesting characters from last season. Without their backstory episodes, they became more characterized and 2 dimensional.
Season 1: B+
Season 2: B-
I missed Piper. I hope the next season focuses on her MORE. I feel that the transition from her as a main character to the ensemble approach was too jarring. Her story was uninteresting this time, but solely because they gave her nothing to work with. I love the actress that plays her and I sympathize with her plight a lot. I also love that she is able to maintain relationships with many people within the prison. I like Piper a lot.
I loved learning more about Morello, but we lost focus off some of the more interesting characters from last season. Without their backstory episodes, they became more characterized and 2 dimensional.
Season 1: B+
Season 2: B-
Just finished the season. Vi's death followed by the "so rude", satisfying as that was, felt a bit too "TV" for me for some reason. It all felt a little too clean and everything seems to be neatly set up for the next season. Caputo is about to face the consequences of all the crazy shit that went down, everyone is buddies again, Red has her market back, etc.
I'm also disappointed that Alex is coming back. It was a terrible thing for Piper to do (even though Alex kind of had it coming) and just feels kind of contrived to get her back on the show. I just don't like Alex. Don't like her dialogue or her personality at all for some reason, dunno why. Oh well.
Taystee was unfathomably stupid this season. Pretty much all of the black girls were. Vee's "manipulation" was so predictable and obvious that it just seemed odd that they would so readily abandon their closest friends for her. The only time I didn't see right through her trick was when she called it a truce with Red and later tried to kill her. She's an evil bitch but there's not much to her besides that and I just didn't find her very engaging as a result. I've seen this kind of character done all the time.
On the bright side though Morello was brilliant this season. Easily still my favorite character on the show. Her flashback episode was just incredible - that bomb at the end where we find out why she's in prison just blew me away.
The other characters I liked were great too, alongside some others. I love every single scene with Red and Sophia respectively, Poussey was fantastic, Gloria really shined in comparison to last time, Rosa was great, and even Sister Ingall was nice to learn about this time around.
All in all it was a pretty good watch, but I don't think it ended up as good as Season 1.
S1: A
S2: B
I'm also disappointed that Alex is coming back. It was a terrible thing for Piper to do (even though Alex kind of had it coming) and just feels kind of contrived to get her back on the show. I just don't like Alex. Don't like her dialogue or her personality at all for some reason, dunno why. Oh well.
Taystee was unfathomably stupid this season. Pretty much all of the black girls were. Vee's "manipulation" was so predictable and obvious that it just seemed odd that they would so readily abandon their closest friends for her. The only time I didn't see right through her trick was when she called it a truce with Red and later tried to kill her. She's an evil bitch but there's not much to her besides that and I just didn't find her very engaging as a result. I've seen this kind of character done all the time.
On the bright side though Morello was brilliant this season. Easily still my favorite character on the show. Her flashback episode was just incredible - that bomb at the end where we find out why she's in prison just blew me away.
The other characters I liked were great too, alongside some others. I love every single scene with Red and Sophia respectively, Poussey was fantastic, Gloria really shined in comparison to last time, Rosa was great, and even Sister Ingall was nice to learn about this time around.
All in all it was a pretty good watch, but I don't think it ended up as good as Season 1.
S1: A
S2: B
That's a very harsh judgmental opinion on the black girls. If you're going to label anyone stupid it should be Red for falling for Vee's ruse twice (or yourself for not seeing through that trick). The black girls didn't actually have any knowledge of Vee's doublecrossing ways unlike Red/the audience
Dirtyshubb
Member
Damn your right, at first it looks like just his head is shopped on but as it goes on the whole thing looks strange
Just watched the finale last night and liked it a lot.
This season was a major improvement over the first one for me (which I still liked anyway). I enjoyed the added depth for the COs and prison admins, especially Caputo and Fig, so that they weren't caricatures anymore. Also liked a lot of the other inmate characters, *except* for Crazy Eyes, who I'm totally fucking over right now. She was a pretty frustrating character to deal with this season anyway but I'm also just tired of her scenery chewing. But Morello, Poussey, Taystee, Red, Rosa, the nun, even Vee -- all really well drawn and exceptionally acted characters.
I also liked the de-emphasis on stories I didn't care about, like the baby or Larry/Polly. Hopefully the stage is set to have those last two written out of the show entirely next year.
My only major complaint of the season? Not nearly enough Nicky. She's far and away my favorite but it didn't seem like she had much to do this season. I also hope they don't spend too much time on the inevitable heroin subplot for her next year.
This season was a major improvement over the first one for me (which I still liked anyway). I enjoyed the added depth for the COs and prison admins, especially Caputo and Fig, so that they weren't caricatures anymore. Also liked a lot of the other inmate characters, *except* for Crazy Eyes, who I'm totally fucking over right now. She was a pretty frustrating character to deal with this season anyway but I'm also just tired of her scenery chewing. But Morello, Poussey, Taystee, Red, Rosa, the nun, even Vee -- all really well drawn and exceptionally acted characters.
I also liked the de-emphasis on stories I didn't care about, like the baby or Larry/Polly. Hopefully the stage is set to have those last two written out of the show entirely next year.
My only major complaint of the season? Not nearly enough Nicky. She's far and away my favorite but it didn't seem like she had much to do this season. I also hope they don't spend too much time on the inevitable heroin subplot for her next year.
From Taystee's perspective, she'd already left her out to dry without doing anything to help her not that long prior. Suddenly she marches in and tells her to turn against her long time best friend who had always been there for her, and that's perfectly logical? What sense does that make?
As for the other girls, why would they be so ready to abandon their friends and watch them be horribly beaten to be in a "family" with a complete stranger? I suppose an argument could be made for the power they gained, so fair enough on that front, but that's not an excuse I think is really acceptable for Taystee.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
You say Vee's manipulations were obvious, but I didn't always find them that way. However, I did see the Red betrayal coming a mile away.
I think her trickery is similar to how it's difficult to write smart characters without everyone else looking dumb. There's a bit of it you just have to go along with.
Taystee's loyalty made sense to me, since Vee was basically her mom that she never had. Black Cindy was strung along for money. Watson made less sense, but was also in for the money.
I think her trickery is similar to how it's difficult to write smart characters without everyone else looking dumb. There's a bit of it you just have to go along with.
Taystee's loyalty made sense to me, since Vee was basically her mom that she never had. Black Cindy was strung along for money. Watson made less sense, but was also in for the money.
It's probably this. Everyone falling for everything she said just seemed like a bit much for me - stuff like killing RJ and turning on Poussey was believable for me, but Taystee throwing herself at her feet and abandoning Poussey like it's nothing just seemed like too much.
I'm really conflicted on this season. I have to mull over it a bit more before I make a big ass post about it, but there were some things I REALLY felt they misfired on. Crazy Eyes character I felt was sort of decimated in my view. I can't believe how bad that went.
I have to think it over some more.
I have to think it over some more.
Dead Prince
Banned
the only thing i didn't really like was EA's UFC glitch on Vee.
I really disliked that ending of the woman with cancer hitting Vee with the van. Felt too perfect and pandering.
I really hated her this season, up until the last episode. She really is just mentally unstable and latched onto Vee as a mother figure, trusting her and willing to do almost anything for her.
Kano on the Phone
Member
I feel like it's just the opposite, I think it really made her character. The last shot of her made the audience really feel awful and completely understand what her motivations are.
I liked her arc a lot.
I actually think they represented people's mistrust of Vee quite well. Other than Taystee who saw her as a mother, the other black girls were just there for the benefits and importance they got all of a sudden. They were reluctant to get on Vee's bad side but I don't think they actually trusted her.
Vee started off as very convincing but before the first half of the season was over everyone pretty much had her figured out. Red was truly the only one being fooled, and I like that they made her character more humane-like.
Vee started off as very convincing but before the first half of the season was over everyone pretty much had her figured out. Red was truly the only one being fooled, and I like that they made her character more humane-like.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
I didn't like her arc but thats because I really like her character and wanted the best for her, which is just naive on my part.
I thought they did it in such a good way though, the vee mother thing coupled with her backstory made it all very convincing
Oh god that would be terrible. Even if she survived, what little believability the show has would be thrown out the window if she was sent back to the same prison she broke out of.
I know people say that Weeds went to shit after the first few seasons, but nothing like that ever happened, did it? Hopefully the fact that the show will only be 3 or 4 will stop them from coming up with BS plots like the return of Vee.
sixteen-bit
Member
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
If somebody dot pointed out the plot beats of this season, without assigning an episode structure or specific interactions, I'd essentially be okay with it. My problem with this season was entirely in the execution. A mix of unconvincing acting, under-baked dialogue and super-contrived excuses to put characters in the same room.
Who knows, I could be projecting a little here, but it seems like they just needed some more time; another draft or two.
Who knows, I could be projecting a little here, but it seems like they just needed some more time; another draft or two.
Well we saw her mom insist on treating her like everyone else, wouldn't surprise me to see her ignoring Suzanne's condition until it was too late.
Didn't they imply it was battery? "Violent tendencies" and "the incident with the neighbor" or something.
the_firewithin
Member
Not enough porn stache this season even though his return was magnificent
I had to go back and immediately watch it again. It was that good.
I don't think Taystee is unlikable either. She's a smart girl who has been dealt a rough deal in life and makes the most of it. Plus she's really funny.
But I would agree that her relationship with Vee made her look awfully cruel.
Well obviously there may be a redemption coming around but I do put Taystee in this unlikable category right now. I also found it weird that we got like two flashbacks for Crazy Eyes that just sort of were there and don't mean anything yet.
sixteen-bit
Member
Is Poussey's German girlfriend the Campbell's au pair from Mad Men?
Oh, I agree but I blamed it on Vee. It is obvious we are meant to see Vee is very manipulative and able to brig the worst out in people. Though I also agree they made it a bit unbelievable with some of the characters not seeing through her sh**. Red in particular really should have seen through that last part as Vee had already displayed to her how she can act like everything is hunky dory and then turn around and beat the crap out of you. Tastee was a little more excusable as Vee was like a mother figure to her but it made a character I really like become unlikable in how quickly she turned on her friend. But what I found most unbelievable is despite being stubbern about being blind to Vee Tastee just as quick is wise to her ways just by being thrown out. And I mean fully wise to her ways including with no new evidence suddenly realizing that Vee had RJ killed.
All in all I liked season 2 and I loved the ending though I agree it was obviously pandering to the audience (I still loved it as they did do a good job of making me hate Vee. Mainly cause she made likable characters unlikable and she made conditions worse for everyone by making the lines between groups even harder). But it does remind me of weeds in a way and not in a good way (how weeds got worse and worse as an effort to become more hardcore and all the characters became unlikable and unsympathetic).
.Like House of Cards, the show feels cheaper and hastily shot in it's second season.
The plot with the pregnant inmate was boring and went nowhere.
The return of pornstache went nowhere.
The biggest problem is with the writing. First we are told how smart Red is. Then we are shown how cool, calm and calculated Vee is. If Vee is so calm and calculated why would she go crazy on her own crew? We had no reason to believe she would do that. Just like we have no reason to believe Red would trust her. Vee knows the importance of having a gang, if we are to go by character she would do everything to preserve that gang. Just doesn't make sense.
Just like house of cards, second season was poorly written, seemed cheaper and had worse acting.
The plot with the pregnant inmate was boring and went nowhere.
The return of pornstache went nowhere.
The biggest problem is with the writing. First we are told how smart Red is. Then we are shown how cool, calm and calculated Vee is. If Vee is so calm and calculated why would she go crazy on her own crew? We had no reason to believe she would do that. Just like we have no reason to believe Red would trust her. Vee knows the importance of having a gang, if we are to go by character she would do everything to preserve that gang. Just doesn't make sense.
Just like house of cards, second season was poorly written, seemed cheaper and had worse acting.
Name me a person who is a drug smuggler that would not go crazy if someone stole their whole supply? Just because someone is calm and collected doesn't mean their emotions eventually don't get the best of them.
That was really weirdly done. One flashback Tastee has no idea Vee had him killed, then a few episodes later she seems to know everything.
crazygambit
Member
My issue here is that there's no way Vee would jump Red and not kill her. We saw he had her "adoptive" son killed without remorse, why would she stop short of killing Red?
It was just the writers not having the balls to kill one of the main characters. I guess that's why I like Game of Thrones. Red would have never survived her mistake there.
Vee. When she found one her own betrayed her, she didn't go crazy. She very calmly took her time and had the guy shot. We were shown this on a flashback.
Like the other poster said, if we are to believe the show and follow the characters, Vee would have killed Red.
Vee did not have to go crazy about RJ because the issue was not pressing. This is not the same situation. She doesn't know where the stash is, who has it and if she will find it. Not the same situation at all. As far as Red goes, Vee had already explained eariler why she would not have Poussey snuffed out. It would have brought outside attention that could possibly discover her operation.
crazygambit
Member
Assaulting her would (and did) bring the same attention though. She either would have done nothing at all and just take over her business (which as the character was written I think it's what she would have done) or kill Red outright.
That half measure of attacking her, but not killing here is just so out of character. What was the point of that? Intimidation? What for? Red had already surrendered. Vee had already won. It was contrived so she would be alienated from everyone, but we could still keep Red for next season, which made it weak IMO.
Not as much as a murder. People get the crap beat out of them all the time in prison. I would assume she wanted to get Red's guard down and then attack, that's why. That doesn't mean she doesn't still see Red as an obstacle. I don't want Red gone anyway. Games of Thrones is great, but not every show has to be like it.
I honestly agree Vee probably would either not attack Red at all or outright kill her (though I think you do bring a good argument why it was believable she'd just attack instead).
I do agree with you that not every show needs to be Game of Thrones and I honestly would be pissed if they killed Red, even if it was more believable. I really like her and I think the show would be missing something without her. I mean part of why I like the show is that they make these characters more human and you can see they aren't just criminals to not care about and throw away. Red shows some one who can be tough and look like the tough guy on the outside but who truly cares about the people she brings under her wings (even if she goes overboard sometimes and ends up getting them hurt).
I really hope the show director doesn't do the same thing with weeds where at first the characters are sympathetic but in an effort to make more and more drama she ended up making almost all characters unlikable in Weeds. Even the one guy I though innocent I started disliking cause he kept coming back for more abuse and didn't just finally put his foot down. Kinda like how she did with Red and Red being stupid again to Vee and letting her guard down. Nothing written about Red or their history says that Red should have not realized Vee was just faking again. She's not written as stupid or unwise, in fact she's written as very smart, and they wrote her as already realizing Vee was tricky/manipulative so there was no reason Red should have fallen for Vee suddenly being like, "yeah, we're all good, this is stupid, we should stop fighting".
Even if Vee is super convincing if you know her well, you should have seen that coming. The only person I can excuse for that is Tastee who grew up with Vee as mother figure so has an excuse thinking Vee wouldn't do that to her (though if she found out about RJ she'd no longer have that excuse cause that proves no one is safe from Vee and that Vee is a true psychopath, realizing that people have emotions and using that to manipulate, but unable to feel them herself).
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