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Orphan Black Season 4 |OT| Paul Free Since 2015 Thursdays at 9/10c on BBC America
- Thread starter Dereck
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KibblesBits
Member
Interesting...
edit: Now we finally have an answer for why Kendall.
edit 2: Now it's getting serious.
edit 3: Yep, lots of answers tonight.
edit: Now we finally have an answer for why Kendall.
edit 2: Now it's getting serious.
edit 3: Yep, lots of answers tonight.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Why keep
alive?
Cosima or any of the clones
KibblesBits
Member
Twitter and Tumblr are probably crying right now.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Evie's apparently evil enough to twist the knife by
, but not evil enough to just kill her?
The villains on this show are basura. Rachel was the only believably threatening one, and now she's reduced to sending messages through a toddler.
telling Cosima that Delphine was shot just as Cosima is reeling from Kendall's murder
The villains on this show are basura. Rachel was the only believably threatening one, and now she's reduced to sending messages through a toddler.
KibblesBits
Member
I'm thinking Evie just wanted to GTFO after such unpleasant activity. She's not the kind to just go around murdering a bunch of folk. Dyad is now properly fucked, from Evie's point of view, and she is poised to move on to better things. Plus the clones are a vipers nest. No need to agitate it more right now after dealing such a crushing blow.
Mark, Helena, MK, Ferdinand will all be gunning for her and those are the really dangerous ones.
Mark, Helena, MK, Ferdinand will all be gunning for her and those are the really dangerous ones.
Jay Shadow
Member
Yeah, pretty much this. Evie's moves over time have been to stop the cloning program. She accomplished it. She hasn't really targeted the clones themselves cause in her mind they're obsolete tech anyways. Even if they went public at this point, it would just be exposing a project 30 years ago from a defunct branch of her parent company. If they tried to expose Brightborn, they probably have contingencies for that anyways with so many outside donors involved.
And I think she just takes satisfaction in them dying off slowly. Much like Rachel was, she thinks she's so far above them that they're nothing to her. Sure, it's dumb to think that way, but arrogance getting the best of people is a continuing cycle on this show.
KibblesBits
Member
The thing is...
<--speculation
Which will be interesting to see play out.
Neolution has now saved the clones due to their germ line editing tech...
Which will be interesting to see play out.
Alright, so Evie's
Really interesting turn of events.
I didn't completely understand what the device in Sarah was supposed to do though. Was it that
Separately I'm guessing that
entire motive from the very beginning was to get to Kendall, and she agreed to take the device out of Sarah for the price as long as she was also able to destroy all of Cosima's research in the process?
Really interesting turn of events.
I didn't completely understand what the device in Sarah was supposed to do though. Was it that
it was supposed to make her sick and die once implanted, but because of Sarah's genetic makeup (that probably also allowed her to have a child), the sickness was ineffective? Do we know when specifically the device was put in, in the first place?
Separately I'm guessing that
Delphine is definitely still alive. Krystal said she saw her get shot, and Evie had motive to lie, but perhaps Krystal somehow helped prevent her from dying after she was shot? Are we just supposed to believe that Krystal happened to be there when she was shot because she was already investigating things herself? Kind of a retcon if so.
Jay Shadow
Member
It was trying different methods of inducing the sickness in her, but it hadn't figured out a way around the defect yet. Eventually it would have killed her and they'd have the information they were looking for to reverse engineer a fix. At least that's as far as Susan knows. Maybe Evie just wanted her dead. Regardless of motive, it sounds like it could at least contain some info that could help them start again. I think it can be assumed that Dr Nealon put it in her when she was in Dyad captivity in season 2. But that's just an assumption.
I can somewhat understand that since she was uncomfortable in the scene and especially since she knows Cosima is dying anyway but it was still odd. The ruthlessness to obliterate Kendall just so Dyad couldn't compete is just so bold that not to go a step further to kill Cosima is jarring. Not to mention that Cosima is only one of two (three if Delphine is alive) people who has any knowledge of what was on the hard drive, she's a loose end. I was expecting at least that Evie would try to recruit her since she's has the aptitude for the research and Evie can also dangle the cure in front of her but it just seems like plot armour now.
And it's not like this will somehow pacify clone club. Besides the revenge angle, Evie still has the hard drive with all the research and all the bot related tech. If anything, this unifies them, Rachel, Ira, Susan, etc even further.
hodayathink
Member
In her mind,
killing Kendall effectively kills the clone project. Castor and Leda both die, there can be no more made, and the whole thing is back to square one. Everything else would just be unnecessary.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, that made no sense at all.
KibblesBits
Member
That moment/picture was hilarious.
Why the hell you guys using spoiler tags for? Episode already aired.
They just want to end cloning. Cosima living, or the rest of the clones living, doesn't matter to her/them. Without the original no new clones can be made right? Thats what i thought their entire goal was.
that seemed pretty obvious.
theres a reason cosima took the bot and whats his name had the line about feeding it.
They just want to end cloning. Cosima living, or the rest of the clones living, doesn't matter to her/them. Without the original no new clones can be made right? Thats what i thought their entire goal was.
that seemed pretty obvious.
theres a reason cosima took the bot and whats his name had the line about feeding it.
Jay Shadow
Member
So Sarah saves Ferdinand cause she needs his help to get the bot out of her face. Then she never talks to Ferdinand again and still gets the bot out of her face. So she ruined Mika's 12 year revenge plan for nothing. Whoops.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Yeah, and it was a total plot contrivance because the samples were just lying there.
She could've simply stopped the handover instead of pouring bleach everywhere like a wild Cookie Lyon.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
But surely they know that the clones and their friends are not going to just stand there and take it. They'll retaliate. They're ruthless enough to murder the old lady, they would certainly eliminate potential threats too.
Yup plus this:
I know that Sarah's impulsive but that was ridiculous. She screwed over Cosima completely now?
Jay Shadow
Member
Screwed over everyone that's not her or Helena. Cosima is just the one that it's gonna happen to the quickest.
But to be slightly fair on the decision, since we're basing it on the entire episode's events, Cosima and Scott at the time had all that genetic information already. She destroyed those samples before their research was wiped, so she thought they had all the information they ever needed for themselves and she was just denying Duncan the materials.
Jay Shadow
Member
TheVampire
Banned
So is this season any good
Always thought this show was kinda meh but watched it any way and havnt seen the new season yet
Always thought this show was kinda meh but watched it any way and havnt seen the new season yet
Jay Shadow
Member
Easily the best season since the first one.
Leona Lewis
Banned
It's been consistently good.
The latest episode is a bit questionable pending how the writers deal with the fallout and the characterization's been lacking because some clones are being neglected at the moment, but there's a clear forward momentum and a kinetic energy that hasn't been there since S1.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I thought that one was quite good. The revelations were pretty darn satisfying - Beth's reason for suicide, especially.
eyeball_kid
Member
I really don't like Sarah much anymore. She's pretty much screwed up everything this season with her impulsiveness and lashing out. Poor Cosima. 
Hopefully Scott can recover the hard drive data and maybe Cosima and Susan will end up working together.
The cop guy is turning out to be an interesting character. You can tell he's a bit conflicted and not quite the robo-killer I thought he was.
It was nice to get a fuller picture of Beth's ending, but really, I hope her story is done now because it takes valuable screentime away from our more interesting current clones.
Helena needs to hurry up and have her baby so she can tear up Evie and the gang Kill Bill style.
Hopefully Scott can recover the hard drive data and maybe Cosima and Susan will end up working together.The cop guy is turning out to be an interesting character. You can tell he's a bit conflicted and not quite the robo-killer I thought he was.
It was nice to get a fuller picture of Beth's ending, but really, I hope her story is done now because it takes valuable screentime away from our more interesting current clones.
Helena needs to hurry up and have her baby so she can tear up Evie and the gang Kill Bill style.
This season is really good. Way better than season 3 and maybe even better than season 1. Very much enjoying it so far.
It's good, b ut I'm finding it confusing as hell.
Been tired this week, so catching up on Netflix probably hasn't helped.
Liked the backstory around Beth, not so sure about Felix's 'sister'.
S04E07 Promo on Space
Spoiler tag any discussion
Some people in here might be interested in this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/orphanblac...ne_help_me_out_with_all_the_different/d3d00oj
Kendall - Siobhan's mother, went to prison for killing John Sadler. Ethan found her there. She's a human chimera meaning she absorbed her brother in the womb and has two sets of DNA; being the original for both Ledas and Castors. She's a mix of the two and thus is not played by Tatiana or Ari.
Dyad - Level 1 of the Leda clone project, Leekie and Rachel ran it. Marion and Rachel decided Leekie should die for mishandling the reappearance of Ethan Duncan. Rachel let Leekie have a chance to run,nobody knows he was shot by Donnie and is under the Hendrix garage. After Leekie died and they disabled Rachel, Marion Bowles made Delphine the leader of it. With Delphine MIA now, its seems the clones have caused too many problems so the Neos are dealing with them more directly.Apparently Rachel grew up thinking both her parents died in a lab explosion. Both survived and while Susan became more of a Neolutionist, Ethan ran away and hid Kendall so nobody could make more clones. Ethan killed himself in front of Rachel in S2 to make sure they couldn't get the key to making more clones but he left it behind in a book Rachel knew how to read, perhaps hoping Rachel would eventually start helping her sisters find a cure for the clone sickness. Sarah and Helena's surrogate birth mother Amelia ran away from the Duncans before anyone knew she was carrying twins. Dyad assumed they lost one clone who became Helena. Rachel came later as the Duncans replacement baby. In exchange for letting Siobhan's people hide him, Kendall had Ethan arrange for the one free clone Sarah-to be raised by Siobhan. Siobhan knew Sarah was some kind of "medical experiments" child to protect, but didn't know about the clones until she met Alison in Season 1. Didn't know about the connection to her own mother until last year.
Proleathans - Religious cult. Tomas and Maggie trained Helena to kill all clones as abominations. Maggie was apparently part of the team who made the clones but was a traitor. Henrick and his side think the clones are a gift from God to breed from-had Tomas killed. Henrick is the father of Gracie and Helena's baby-killed by Helena. His wife Bonnie seems to be leader now, but after kicking Gracie out for miscarrying another baby, they seem out of the picture for the moment. Helena has the canister of other eggs at the Hendrixes right now which have expired and withered away so she buried it. Henrick was Ethan's lab assistant and tried to have a son from a stolen Castor sample but Abel died shortly after birth. Paul blew up Abel's bones with a grenade when he died.
Topside - shadow group controlling Dyad, Marion Bowles is part of it, started caring about the clones as people when raising little Charlotte but the rest of Topside like Ferdinand just see the Ledas as tools. Ferdinand may have changed now that he knows the Neolutionists were playing him too and he likes Rachel. Marion is dead based on Veera's research and Susan's saying Charlotte had unfortunate guardians.
Helsinki-A group of clones executed in 2001 by Ferdinand and Topside with Marion's approval. Why and how, plus another connection still to be revealed on the show is actually in a comic series focused on Veera. Final issue out May 25th. Veera's burn scar is not from Ferdinand and she has another reason to be pissed at Clone Club.
Neolutionists - Publicly thought to be just hipster science nerds that admired Leekie but it turns out they were running both Leda and Castor and are apparently the top dogs. Rachel's mother Susan appears to be leader. Evie Cho, Detective Duko and the paramedic couple all appear to be new Neo underlings. What they think happened to Leekie is unclear. As we saw last night, Evie, Duko and the paramedics are tired of all the time and resources the clones are taking, thinking the Brightborn babies and Maggot-Bots are more efficient and better, thus betraying Susan and content to just let all the clones get sick and die. Susan views these methods as savage substitutes when they should ideally have as many clones as they need to advance the science.
The clones were intended as a test to perfect the human genome to advance evolution and cure disease and study humans in different circumstances. The clone sickness has derailed that plan somewhat, especially for the Castors.
Castor - Military branch that ran there own male cloning project, also pawns of the Neolutionists. They had Paul spy on the Ledas/Dyad for the first two seasons to look for a cure for the clone sickness. Ferdinand captured their leader Dr. Coady at the end of last year. Coady wanted to cure the Castors and though Sarah/Helena's healing factor might help but she also wanted to turn the sickness into a bio-weapon which turned Paul against the military. Mark was their spy on the Prolethans for the same reason but betrayed them for Gracie. Ira was raised as a Neo insider by Susan, the other Castors don't know him at all. As far as we know, only Mark and Ira are left of the Castors. Based on Paul and Mark's conversation last year, they had a connection to Sammy; Tony's dead friend and probably monitor who had that message for Beth. It might come back up this year given how Beth centric we are.
Spoiler tag any discussion
Some people in here might be interested in this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/orphanblac...ne_help_me_out_with_all_the_different/d3d00oj
Kendall - Siobhan's mother, went to prison for killing John Sadler. Ethan found her there. She's a human chimera meaning she absorbed her brother in the womb and has two sets of DNA; being the original for both Ledas and Castors. She's a mix of the two and thus is not played by Tatiana or Ari.
Dyad - Level 1 of the Leda clone project, Leekie and Rachel ran it. Marion and Rachel decided Leekie should die for mishandling the reappearance of Ethan Duncan. Rachel let Leekie have a chance to run,nobody knows he was shot by Donnie and is under the Hendrix garage. After Leekie died and they disabled Rachel, Marion Bowles made Delphine the leader of it. With Delphine MIA now, its seems the clones have caused too many problems so the Neos are dealing with them more directly.Apparently Rachel grew up thinking both her parents died in a lab explosion. Both survived and while Susan became more of a Neolutionist, Ethan ran away and hid Kendall so nobody could make more clones. Ethan killed himself in front of Rachel in S2 to make sure they couldn't get the key to making more clones but he left it behind in a book Rachel knew how to read, perhaps hoping Rachel would eventually start helping her sisters find a cure for the clone sickness. Sarah and Helena's surrogate birth mother Amelia ran away from the Duncans before anyone knew she was carrying twins. Dyad assumed they lost one clone who became Helena. Rachel came later as the Duncans replacement baby. In exchange for letting Siobhan's people hide him, Kendall had Ethan arrange for the one free clone Sarah-to be raised by Siobhan. Siobhan knew Sarah was some kind of "medical experiments" child to protect, but didn't know about the clones until she met Alison in Season 1. Didn't know about the connection to her own mother until last year.
Proleathans - Religious cult. Tomas and Maggie trained Helena to kill all clones as abominations. Maggie was apparently part of the team who made the clones but was a traitor. Henrick and his side think the clones are a gift from God to breed from-had Tomas killed. Henrick is the father of Gracie and Helena's baby-killed by Helena. His wife Bonnie seems to be leader now, but after kicking Gracie out for miscarrying another baby, they seem out of the picture for the moment. Helena has the canister of other eggs at the Hendrixes right now which have expired and withered away so she buried it. Henrick was Ethan's lab assistant and tried to have a son from a stolen Castor sample but Abel died shortly after birth. Paul blew up Abel's bones with a grenade when he died.
Topside - shadow group controlling Dyad, Marion Bowles is part of it, started caring about the clones as people when raising little Charlotte but the rest of Topside like Ferdinand just see the Ledas as tools. Ferdinand may have changed now that he knows the Neolutionists were playing him too and he likes Rachel. Marion is dead based on Veera's research and Susan's saying Charlotte had unfortunate guardians.
Helsinki-A group of clones executed in 2001 by Ferdinand and Topside with Marion's approval. Why and how, plus another connection still to be revealed on the show is actually in a comic series focused on Veera. Final issue out May 25th. Veera's burn scar is not from Ferdinand and she has another reason to be pissed at Clone Club.
Neolutionists - Publicly thought to be just hipster science nerds that admired Leekie but it turns out they were running both Leda and Castor and are apparently the top dogs. Rachel's mother Susan appears to be leader. Evie Cho, Detective Duko and the paramedic couple all appear to be new Neo underlings. What they think happened to Leekie is unclear. As we saw last night, Evie, Duko and the paramedics are tired of all the time and resources the clones are taking, thinking the Brightborn babies and Maggot-Bots are more efficient and better, thus betraying Susan and content to just let all the clones get sick and die. Susan views these methods as savage substitutes when they should ideally have as many clones as they need to advance the science.
The clones were intended as a test to perfect the human genome to advance evolution and cure disease and study humans in different circumstances. The clone sickness has derailed that plan somewhat, especially for the Castors.
Castor - Military branch that ran there own male cloning project, also pawns of the Neolutionists. They had Paul spy on the Ledas/Dyad for the first two seasons to look for a cure for the clone sickness. Ferdinand captured their leader Dr. Coady at the end of last year. Coady wanted to cure the Castors and though Sarah/Helena's healing factor might help but she also wanted to turn the sickness into a bio-weapon which turned Paul against the military. Mark was their spy on the Prolethans for the same reason but betrayed them for Gracie. Ira was raised as a Neo insider by Susan, the other Castors don't know him at all. As far as we know, only Mark and Ira are left of the Castors. Based on Paul and Mark's conversation last year, they had a connection to Sammy; Tony's dead friend and probably monitor who had that message for Beth. It might come back up this year given how Beth centric we are.
KibblesBits
Member
All that should be obvious from watching the show and paying attention but I will say it is a good resource if you can do neither.
Leona Lewis
Banned
This show sometimes lays on the information dumpage a little thick, even by sci-fi television series standards.
Topside was around where I started losing track, so I personally appreciated the summary
KibblesBits
Member
This show sometimes lays on the information dumpage a little thick, even by sci-fi television series standards.
Topside was around where I started losing track, so I personally appreciated the summary
Rewatching Tatiana Maslany doing amazing things is more than enough incentive for a refresher on the lore.
As I mentioned, this is a useful tool but I just don't find the show that hard to follow. I see things coming before they are presented too. Maybe it's made for a logic and science based mind.
Now if only a few more Castors would show up, but given fan reaction to them I don't know how that would go over. Seems like everyone wants them to die.
Or sometimes it's OK to just let people not understand things, ask questions, and get info they want to understand things. You don't need to reply with bewilderment every time someone misses a detail on the show.
Orphan Black is a great show, but it's also a great example of sci-fi shows about endless conspiracies and changing allegiances with extremely convoluted storytelling sometimes.
Sometimes it's difficult to remember the purpose of a character who was randomly introduced out of nowhere two years ago, was on screen for a total of 5 minutes, and then practically never seen again.
I'm always late watching the show, but I caught up on Friday anyway, so that's not too late.
I might need to re-watch it again, or re-read that overall summary on Reddit since I had a moment where I couldn't follow a story thread since I forgot about it. I think the show greatly benefits from being binge watched with how tight the storylines are. I might end up doing this when the season is done.
In a way, I sort of didn't want Beth's suicide explained in such detail, if only to preserve some of her mystery. But I'm glad it was ultimately revealed though.
I might need to re-watch it again, or re-read that overall summary on Reddit since I had a moment where I couldn't follow a story thread since I forgot about it. I think the show greatly benefits from being binge watched with how tight the storylines are. I might end up doing this when the season is done.
In a way, I sort of didn't want Beth's suicide explained in such detail, if only to preserve some of her mystery. But I'm glad it was ultimately revealed though.
KibblesBits
Member
It's a discussion board, we're all allowed to present our opinions here. I'm sorry you're salty at my bewilderment of people being unable to follow the progression of the show.
I'm definitely going to mention I don't need any cliffnotes because this show is top tier awesome.
*shrug*
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah; in a way I wish they would just settle on a main villain rather than shuffling the decks twice every season. It feels like every time there's an evil corporation as the main villains they wait until the end of the season, pull another curtain back and "You thought [insert here] were the main villains, but the real villains are..."
Anyway, I am enjoying it, but it needs more Alison and Donnie, and Art and Felix are actually a really fun team as well.
These screenshots are hilarious brehs.
Spoilers
https://todaynewsshow.com/orphan-black-episode-4-07-the-antisocialism-of-sex-promotional-photos/
Spoilers
https://todaynewsshow.com/orphan-black-episode-4-07-the-antisocialism-of-sex-promotional-photos/
Jay Shadow
Member
Last issue of the Helsinki comic came out today after being delayed a few months. Well that was sure a lot of clone murder from cover to cover.
KibblesBits
Member
Awesome performance by Peaches.
edit: OMG that birthday party.
edit: OMG that birthday party.
Jay Shadow
Member
So for anyone that saw the clip from next week on After the Black I'd like to say... SPOILER-> Nailed It!
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
So that's who that was. I was wondering why they kept cutting to the singer in the club.
eyeball_kid
Member
Sistras are freaking out this week. Please bring back Helena for a dose of sanity!
I feel sorry for the beard. Poor guy is just trying to help his friends and Sarah keeps shitting on him. I hope she's got the self-destructive BS out of her system because there's about to be another Helsinki.
This episode felt really jarring, jumping from coked-out sex to a children's birthday party to Cosima slicing herself open. I felt like I was on a bender just watching it.
I feel sorry for the beard. Poor guy is just trying to help his friends and Sarah keeps shitting on him. I hope she's got the self-destructive BS out of her system because there's about to be another Helsinki.
This episode felt really jarring, jumping from coked-out sex to a children's birthday party to Cosima slicing herself open. I felt like I was on a bender just watching it.
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