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Oscar Nominations 2011 (Jan 25, 8:30am EST/5:30am PST)
- Thread starter BowieZ
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I'll look up the link but not sure how it got that title.Skiptastic said:
To be clear I love Pulp Fiction, but the influence had more to do with Tarentino than it did on that particular movie, but I'll check it out.
Ebert said Hurt Locker was revolutionary so not everything he says is gold.
EDIT: Yeah, he doesn't explain why
Anything but that fucking facebook movie needs to win Best Picture. I despised that "anything but Avatar" crowd last year, but fuck it, I'm an "anything but TSN" hater this year.
Inception, Black Swan or True Grit all the way. Still haven't had a chance to watch The King's Speech.
Inception, Black Swan or True Grit all the way. Still haven't had a chance to watch The King's Speech.
Battersea Power Station
Member
I just watched Exit through the Gift Shop, finishing minutes ago. It's a great movie... but it's fake, no? How is it nominated as a documentary?
WyndhamPrice
Member
Battersea Power Station said:
If it's fake nobody has been able to prove it. Mr. Brainwash is a real person and those art shows did happen.
10 movies for Best Picture is so god damned stupid.
Anyways, I think both "Inception" and "The Social Network" were pretty overrated. It's like Hurt Locker....but twice. They were both great movies but no way in hell do I think they're Best Picture-worthy. But if they are indeed deserving being nominated, I think that just speaks to the lack of depth in last year's movies; just a slew of slightly above-average films. The only other movie I've seen in the category was Toy Story 3 and I honestly thought that it was better than both of them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing "Black Swan" and "127 Hours"...and hoping that I'm not disappointed given the hype. "True Grit"....meh, I hate westerns but I'll probably see it anyone. I remember watching "The Assassination of Jesse James" and being BORED TO TEARS (even though it was a decent movie).
Anyways, I think both "Inception" and "The Social Network" were pretty overrated. It's like Hurt Locker....but twice. They were both great movies but no way in hell do I think they're Best Picture-worthy. But if they are indeed deserving being nominated, I think that just speaks to the lack of depth in last year's movies; just a slew of slightly above-average films. The only other movie I've seen in the category was Toy Story 3 and I honestly thought that it was better than both of them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing "Black Swan" and "127 Hours"...and hoping that I'm not disappointed given the hype. "True Grit"....meh, I hate westerns but I'll probably see it anyone. I remember watching "The Assassination of Jesse James" and being BORED TO TEARS (even though it was a decent movie).
Battersea Power Station
Member
That's freakin' amazing. I definitely believe that MBW's whole existence is engineered by Banksy, and that Guetta is just some dude acting as a face. The Oscar nom is a cherry on top.WyndhamPrice said:
Amazing.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
Xun said:
As another fellow animator, I am laughing at your pretentiousness.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
Battersea Power Station said:
WyndhamPrice said:
I still don't think it should be nominated as a "documentary" it is still kind of an insult to "real" documentaries.
My question is (I'm flying on zero Google research on this ) did Mr. Brainwash exist before this film? or only during and after? and did he really make millions? (or over a million bucks or whatever they mention he made in the movie?) or ...Was the words "million dollars" was thrown out there in the movie just to make the film more intense?
I mean, give me a week or two and I can give myslef an artistic nickname and throw an art show over a weekend at my local art gallery and even sell a few pieces...I can even get a guy with a camera to "document" all that...
But would it be fair to call it a "documentary" still, if I took that raw source material and made it a part of a greater film, with other stories and scripted material?
MIMIC said:
Best Picture winners in the past have included the likes of Chicago, Crash and The English Patient. I'd say both The Social Network and Inception are vastly superior to any of those. I could name tens of nominees that weren't that great if I wanted to put in a bit more effort.
True Grit is fantastic, although I might be alone in preferring the John Wayne original. The new one is more nuanced, I guess, and there are some fantastic shots at times. Really superb acting. Although I've never met a 14 year old as smart and verbose as the main character is supposed to be, and I've met some highly intelligent youngsters in my time.
Discotheque
Banned
I Push Fat Kids said:
Same here. For me:
Pulp Fiction > Quiz Show > Gump > Shawshank
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah the Oscars should just use greater than signs now. Would be a lot more interesting and competitive lol
Skiptastic
Member
Discotheque said:
That would be so amazing. It's not just "Oh, X movie won" but you could get an actual gauge on the Academy's thinking behind it all. Would be extremely fascinating (and probably result in even more targeted Oscar bait lol).
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
blame space
Banned
are those animators gonna fight?
always wanted to see an animator fight
always wanted to see an animator fight
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
(._.) said:
I didn't realize that she was the queen of the SAG hive-mind.
Battersea Power Station said:
It's almost certainly staged but plenty in it is real enough to fit the bill of a documentary.
A) Mr. Brainwash actually did hold those art exhibits that you see in the film, and plenty of people did show up to them and buy shit (which is a critical part of the satire)
B) The footage of some of the bigger street artists doing their thing is legit, and rare
EricHasNoPull said:
Nonsense. There is considerable actual documentary footage in Exit Through the Gift Shop. There's probably no better insight into the street art scene out there.
brianjones
Member
id be surprised if portman does anything as good as black swan again.
i'm still not convinced she's a great actress so much as played the perfect role.
maybe her jennifer connelly requiem role.
i'm still not convinced she's a great actress so much as played the perfect role.
maybe her jennifer connelly requiem role.
UltimaPooh
Member
Anth0ny said:
I would say their acting has more to do with his inability to be a Director.
Although the writing also blew.
The biggest joke of all is Hailee Steinfeld being nominated for best actress in a supporting role rather than in a leading role. She is the main character and appears in pretty much every scene in the film, how much more "leading" can a role get??
She should win, but she should have won even in the other category... it's like there were two deserving winners, Portman and Steinfeld, so they put them in different categories so both could win.
I'm not exactly sure why people are so in love with Steinfeld. She was good, don't get me wrong, especially for a kid (who, 9 times out of 10, are just insufferable to watch or listen to) but there was nothing about her performance that was so incredible/powerful/poignant/etc. as to merit an Oscar for it. Especially if you're talking about the best actress category, where she doesn't even come close to Portman and (especially) Williams.
xbhaskarx said:
That's exactly what they did (though I disagree Steinfeld is as deserving as Portman). It's all political. The studio campaigned for Steinfeld in supporting simply because that's where she has the best chance not only to win, but also to have been nominated in the first place.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
Zeliard said:
Like I said, there is certainly a quite a bit of documentary footage in the film, it also shows a good insight on "the street art" scene no doubt, but the film is really not a documentary, there is dialogue that clearly seems scripted, there is some footage that is clearly set up, it is a great "mockumentary" it's even a better Art film! But I'm not sure if it should be categorized as a documentary at the Oscars...but hey!
UltimaPooh
Member
EricHasNoPull said:
Most Documentaries have set up scenes or dialogue.
EricHasNoPull said:
It's categorized as a documentary because it is officially a documentary. There is no evidence within the film or outside of it that suggests it's false. The idea that Exit Through the Gift Shop is fiction is born entirely from viewers, with nothing substantial behind it other than people wanting to believe that it's just a big prank by Banksy.
Blader5489 said:
I thought Steinfeld's performance was hugely critical because if she doesn't work, then the entire film doesn't. The Coens, casting director and company must have gone through a ton of candidates before settling on her. She was essentially as perfect as she could have been, delivering every line with verve and passion. She was the film's rock - steady and keeping everything anchored. I liked her performance a lot.
EricHasNoPull said:
That's splitting hairs a bit. The film features tons of archival documentary footage. It uses that as a jumping off point to try and be a bit more subsersive and send a message about hype in the art scene, rather than simply laying out a bunch of footage (which would have still been cool, but less fulfilling ultimately). But it would never work unless there was that element of realism.
Thierry Guetta/Mr. Brainwash being staged or not is actually completely irrelevant to the whole documentary aspect, because the typical people in the film reacting to him and his shows are entirely legit non-actors, and the exhibits were legitimately staged and held with the same process as any other exhibit would be. Mr. Brainwash's art exhibits actually got some play in printed newspapers and such, with nobody really the wiser.
My personal suspicion is that Thierry Guetta at first really did want to document the street art scene, and when he came across Banksy and/or Shepard Fairey in his travels, they decided to do something a bit more subversive and satirical. They used Thierry Guetta because he was just a regular joe and thus the perfect foil to show how easily false hype could be built, and also that "art" doesn't really mean anything since it speaks entirely different things to entirely different people. Guetta's art still sold for plenty, even though it was purposefully created (likely by Banksy himself) to be inferior and derivative. That's basically the message of the film, and it blurs a few lines in order to get that across. But in terms of the simple observance of life, and as an insight into a world few of us are familiar with, it fits the documentary bill.
Blader5489 said:
Que? Hell, just the original home video Guetta "made" should be telling enough. Nobody would actually make an absurdist, hyperkinetic video like to be demonstrated to others as documentary unless they are literally insane. Guetta's French, yes, but I don't think he's crazy.
Zeliard said:
Are you talking about Life Remote Control? Whose co-producer, who helped Thierry edit it, is now suing Banksy for not being credited for the clips of LRC that were used? Unless that, too, is also part of the whole hoax.
Besides, Exit Through the Gift Shop makes it pretty clear that Thierry is an idiot. Passionate, yeah, but just flat out not smart.
Blader5489 said:
The entire film portrays him as a buffoon, including things that seem clearly purposeful (the wheelbarrow?). It's very difficult for me to imagine that it isn't intended, especially since Guetta himself seems to have no problem with this being out there for everyone to see. Also, the entire purpose of Life Remote Control's inclusion in the film was for Banksy to mock it as yet another piece of insipid Mr. Brainwash trash, and he essentially uses it to give us ETGS's origin story: Banksy thought Guetta's street art doc was a piece of shit and decided to take matters into his own hands. Banksy continually lambasts Guetta's work to get across that he's a sham, yet one who can still make some impact on the art scene.
Take a long, hard look at Banksy. This is a man whose entire claim-to-fame is highly subversive and satirical street art. What's a film if not another form of art? Exit Through the Gift Shop is a Banksy art piece in the medium of film.
Zeliard said:
Yes, thank you for summarizing the whole point of the film.
But that wasn't my point. If Life Remote Control is, as you say, just another part of the hoax and couldn't possibly be real, then why is Thierry's co-editor from that "film" now suing Banksy? Is that also part of the hoax? If so, how does that even serve Banksy's hoax? Is Banksy the new Andy Kaufman?!Your last paragraph is exactly why people believe the film is fake. Because, despite any lack of evidence proving that the film is fiction, people want to believe that it is because, oh, that's just the kind of thing that Banksy would do. But the facts say otherwise.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
...Zeliard said:
Zeliard said:
Right...Yet you still think this is a raw documentary without the heavy influence and manipulation of the filmmakers to get their message across?
Yes it's kinda obvious by the end that Bansky and Thierry just trolled us and showed us a glimpse of Bansky's "professional" career in a form of an hour and a half long film through the..."character" of "Mr. Brainwasher" basically a character created/symbolized to be Bansky himself.
Yes we also learn a thing or two about "Street Art" through real archival footage shot by Thierry back in the day, But again, the film has a very deliberate and personal message to send out to it's viewers.
The filmmakers are totally in control of this message and even are manipulative about it, that type of style and approach to film-making doesn't ring true to the genre of documentary to me.
It's a great art film, it's an awesome experiment, but I donno about it being a documentary since the film doesn't freely explore and follow the lives of many different street artist;
It only explores the few artists who also happen to have a direct and great influence in the fabrication of the film itself (the final product).
This wasn't "obvious" at all. Not even in the slightest. Banksy and crew have gone on record multiple times to say that they didn't create Mr. B.EricHasNoPull said:
Oh boy. You have the wrong idea of what a documentary is.
Documentaries have never been 100% true and they are always manipulated by the filmmaker to deliver a message. It's a fact of the genre, not something excluded from it. Sure, they're supposed to be real events, but the filmmakers control the editing, to some extent the camera work, the narration, the music, etc. They still choose what to show you and what not to show you. And even beyond that, so many of the events in every documentary you've seen were still staged. Definitely not every scene ever. But every documentary has the filmmakers influencing what is being captured from the very beginning.
With that, we can only speculate whether or not Exit can be considered a documentary. By every single standard that's been used for docs since their beginning, it is one. If the story was set up outside of the film by Banksy, then it wouldn't meet the criteria. You can't prove that either way, so it's a documentary for now.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
big ander said:
I am saying it's obvious to it's viewers, I am merely talking about my own viewing experience, By the end of the film I walked out of the theater thinking that this was all a hoax that symbolized Bansky's Street Art Career and success through pop culture.
If only all movie going audience had to wait to hear what the filmmakers had to say about their film after watching it, the general public doesn't go see a movie for that reason, they go see a movie to be entertained and get something out of it for themselves. And what I got from ETGS was that it was designed to symbolize the general public's attitude towards contemporary "art" or simply question "what is art?" is it the execution of it? is it the artistic intention? among many other questions etc. etc.
The film definitely raised those questions for me after it was finished and coincidentally
I found those questions to be very reflective of Bansky's actual street art that he's been famous for for the past few years. Am I not allow to get that from this movie? "am I doing it wrong" or something? I'm sure I'm not alone in having this opinion about the movie so hence "the obvious".
Yes I think I know what can be categorized as a "documentary" and we can argue till the cows come home that most documentaries out there these days are merely just personal film projects.big ander said:
I understand that every documentary doesn't have to be a CNN, live raw news footage. It's important that documentaries have a central message and most documentaries for better or worse are manipulated and fine tweaked by the fimmaker(s) to help get that message across to it's audience but... there's a fine line between all that and a work of fiction, scripted film.
The film is label as a "documentary" everywhere sure, but I seriously did not feel like it was one when I finished watching it, but hey!... that's just my personal take on it. take it or leave it.
It's just like a movie being categories as a psychological thriller, but once you done watching it, it maybe feel more like a shallow, horror slasher to you. (just to be clear this is just an example I am using detached from the film in discussion, not saying that I felt that ETGS was the "slasher of "documentaries")
The Culture Vulture
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is why I loved Exit Through the Gift Shop so much.
Is why I loved Exit Through the Gift Shop so much.
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