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[mattiewheels]

People like her hate all diversity, because diversity inherently harms the most powerful group.

Yeah, just paint someone with the broadest brush possible when you know that's not how they really feel, just so you can put them in a easy compartment in your brain.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Here's what my input is. I don't think we should meet a quota of black peoples being nominated it just shouldn't be that way. The awards should be about art and that's it. If there are no black people nominated then damn I guess white people destroyed that year. If all black people are nominated then damn I guess black people destroyed that year. Do you get what I'm saying.

Now best actor doesn't matter because Leo gots it in the back. But what is fishy is why yo boy from beast of no nation didn't get a nomination. He was fucking fantastic in that movie and should get a nomination. Same with idris Elba who was fantastic as the supporting role. So for those two reason I can see why this whole thing is fishy. But the way to solve it is not to meet a quota. It's to get rid of the old racist farts that vote and get some new blood in.

So what you're saying is that only one black actress has ever won Best Actress in nearly 90 years of the Academy's existence because only one black actress has ever been good enough to win? Seriously, I have no idea why people think this. Do you think that the Academy was biased against black people in its very first year? If so, why do you think that the bias is no longer there?

Yea because people never lurk before joining..nice condescension though.

Fair point.

Yeah, just paint someone with the broadest brush possible when you know that's not how they really feel, just so you can put them in a easy compartment in your brain.

Sorry, I'll just pretend she didn't say super problematic shit.

 

[ANDS]

1. She suggested that two years of POC snubbing was because hey what if they weren't good enough

And that's racist because. . .

Too many of you are arguing your point as if the antecedent has already been conceded.

 

[PBY]

Yeah, just paint someone with the broadest brush possible when you know that's not how they really feel, just so you can put them in a easy compartment in your brain.

Sure, I don't know her. But she was pretty clear in her comment.

 

[Flying Toaster]

You should google diversity equals white genocide.

FML I am drinking for the rest of the weekend. This is... There are no proper words.

Don't google this.

 

[Slayven]

Yeah, just paint someone with the broadest brush possible when you know that's not how they really feel, just so you can put them in a easy compartment in your brain.

I wouldn't call her hateful

But going by her comments she is incredible ignorant on the subject..

 

[Bobby Roberts]

A point she made, which isn't hard to agree with, is that demanding their be diversity/minority nominations simply for the sake of diversity isn't the answer.

Nobody's really demanding that, though. And it's also not about "meeting a quota" and never has been.

So far as the industry itself goes, it's about producers/directors exercising their privilege and influence to be more inclusive and give more non-white actors/writers/directors chances to do the work in front of larger audiences. Sorta like how Kathleen Kennedy is doing over at Lucasfilm, for example.

So far as the voting blocs at the Academy goes, it's about getting people to stop settling for the same spoonfed Oscar Bait bullshit they've been dribbling onto their bibs for the past 20-30 years ever since the Weinsteins turned this particular game into a literal political battleground.

Basically: You don't have to worry about quotas when you have older, Whiter audiences making the effort to set aside their internal biases and connecting with these films and these stories on their level.

You know, like every other person who isn't a white guy has to do when they head out to the movie theaters to watch a movie starring some heroic white guy doing a heroic white thing.

Oscar voters don't really do this. A lot of people don't really do this. In fact, they'll make excuses for why they don't feel inclined to attempt engagement at all, or explain why it's not worth their time to engage.

 

[wachie]

A point she made, which isn't hard to agree with, is that demanding their be diversity/minority nominations simply for the sake of diversity isn't the answer.

But that isnt the issue with the oscars. When there are noms/wins just for the sake of diversity, then this point can be made.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

The age of the people in the judging pool indicates that they have been in the Academy since the "olden days", which suggests that they retain the biases of that era.

That is age-ism and disrespecting any actual working experience in the art of cinema or editing (family friend worked as an editor). Fun to hear him yell at cinematography or lighting in more CG heavy films. Can't even bring up the use of digital video.

 

[ANDS]

But that isnt the issue with the oscars. When there are noms/wins just for the sake of diversity, then this point can be made.

Did you bother reading the context of the statement? No one said that's how the Oscars are.

 

[Thewonandonly]

The truth is that the Academy and the film industry doesn't want to nominate television performances. So there is probably more to those snubs than racism

Which is dumb. It should be about the art. The a movie is fantastic and comes out only on vhs it still should be nominated if good enough. Beast of no nation was good enough and that's what I'm more pissed about. Havnt seen concussion yet tho so I can't way in on how will smith acted but I heard he was really good in it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And that's racist because. . .

Too many of you are arguing your point as if the antecedent has already been conceded.

Oh, right. Clearly, for the past eight decades, one black woman was good enough to win Best Actress, and only one. Thanks for clarifying.

There is legitimate willful ignorance if you truly think that the dominance by white people is the product of superior acting rather than a 94% white, 77% male group with a median age of 65.

That is age-ism and disrespecting any actual working experience in the art of cinema or editing (family friend worked as an editor). Fun to hear him yell at cinematography or lighting in more CG heavy films. Can't even bring up the use of digital video.

It is acknowledging that the lack of age diversity inevitably would lead to bias. It is not me saying "older people are incompetent", and even more strongly does it not mean "all these people are racist because they're old."

 

[Voysa Reezun]

Another person who doesn't actually understand the definition of racism saying dumb shit? Nothing to see here.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

If she wanted to keep things as they are, wouldn't the best course of action be not saying anything at all?

Also, she sucked in Dexter.

 

[PBY]

A point she made, which isn't hard to agree with, is that demanding their be diversity/minority nominations simply for the sake of diversity isn't the answer.

Actually for me that's pretty fucking hard to agree with.

 

[Kurtofan]

finally someone standing up for white people

 

[Enzom21]

The truth is that the Academy and the film industry doesn't want to nominate television performances. So there is probably more to those snubs than racism

Beasts of No Nations had a theatrical release and two documentaries from Netflix were nominated.

A bit redundant given your Junior status, but I think that speaks more to your lack of exposure to this forum. Even if what he said was racist, I've actively seen:

1. Literal white supremacy;
2. An anonymous white supremacist teacher who cheated a black student out of graduating; and
3. Patrol

I think you mean Speedline... Patrol was subtle with his racism, Speedline said shit like, "Good luck finding a nice white man after this in the Danny Brown bj thread. There was also another poster who made a joke about black women flies and watermelon. There are plenty of racists here, some just know how to hide it better than others.

 

[Lego Boss]

You should google diversity equals white genocide.

OK. But perhaps it should be used as it's properly meant. I.e. the entire extermination of a race of people.

It's so out of context that it doesn't even prove a point. It's obscene. In any context.

 

[djplaeskool]

When the interviewer explains that black members of the film industry feel like a minority, Rampling replies: “No comment.”

What a strange hill to choose to die on.

 

[Thewonandonly]

Nobody's really demanding that, though. And it's also not about "meeting a quota" and never has been.

So far as the industry itself goes, it's about producers/directors exercising their privilege and influence to be more inclusive and give more non-white actors/writers/directors chances to do the work in front of larger audiences. Sorta like how Kathleen Kennedy is doing over at Lucasfilm, for example.

So far as the voting blocs at the Academy goes, it's about getting people to stop settling for the same spoonfed Oscar Bait bullshit they've been dribbling onto their bibs for the past 20-30 years ever since the Weinstein's turned this particular game into a literal political battleground.

Basically: You don't have to worry about quotas when you have older, Whiter audiences making the effort to set aside their internal biases and connecting with these films and these stories on their level.

You know, like every other person who isn't a white guy has to do when they head out to the movie theaters to watch a movie starring some heroic white guy doing a heroic white thing.

Ya that's why Star Wars is setting a whole new president in the film industry and should get better praise for it. There 3 main actors are black, Hispanic, and a female. That's huge and is going in the right step for the industry.

 

[Bold One]

Is it actually possible no black or ethic actors were actually good enough to make the list? I mean it's an actually possibility right?

whats that old saying all ethnic parents tell their kids?

'You gotta work twice as hard to be considered half as good'

 

[A Link to the Past]

Beasts of No Nations had a theatrical release and two documentaries from Netflix were nominated.


I think you mean Speedline... Patrol was subtle with his racism, Speedline said shit like, "Good luck finding a nice white man after this in the Danny Brown bj thread. There was also another poster who made a joke about black women flies and watermelon. There are plenty of racists here, some just know how to hide it better than others.

Never saw Speedline, but I listed Patrol because even with his subtlety, it was all too apparent when he came to the defense of white police officers until it was a black officer, who he conveniently was critical of.

OK. But perhaps it should be used as it's properly meant. I.e. the entire extermination of a race of people.

It's so out of context that it doesn't even prove a point. It's obscene. In any context.

These people actually think that white people are going to go extinct, they mean it literally.

 

[LegendofLex]

A point she made, which isn't hard to agree with, is that demanding their be diversity/minority nominations simply for the sake of diversity isn't the answer.

This would actually be far more difficult to prove than a long-standing bias toward white-dominated films, white performers, and white filmmakers.

Even then, the presence of that bias actually admits a need for intentionally aiming nominations away from white-dominated films, white performers, and white filmmakers, as minority-led films have not only failed to get nominations but been consistently excluded from receiving them.

 

[djplaeskool]

whats that old saying all ethnic parents tell their kids?

'You gotta work twice as hard to be considered half as good'

My grandfather told me this a multitude of times in my younger years.
My dad was far more stoic about it.

 

[Staccat0]

.

There is no such a thing as inverted racism, period.

I think that is an over simplification. Reverse racism isn't really a thing, for reasons already stated, but if you have ever been a dirt poor white kid going to an all black school you know what it is to be treated poorly based on the color of your skin.

It's an edge case, but on a community level, exceptions can exist.

 

[Infernostew]

Beasts of No Nations had a theatrical release and two documentaries from Netflix were nominated.

Hollywood gives 0 fucks about documentaries. What Hollywood does give a fuck about is an alternative distribution network not playing by their rules. I truly believe that Beast of No Nation was completely disregarded from all categories because they feel threatened and wanted to make a statement.

 

[Lynn616]

racism is the power structure that allows "others" to be held down. Prejudice and bigotry are just two sides of the same coin. Which is why whites are considered racists even when they claim not to be, because they inherently profit from our broken system which relies on institutional racism to keep the engine going.

Are you saying all whites are racists?

 

[Thewonandonly]

So what you're saying is that only one black actress has ever won Best Actress in nearly 90 years of the Academy's existence because only one black actress has ever been good enough to win? Seriously, I have no idea why people think this. Do you think that the Academy was biased against black people in its very first year? If so, why do you think that the bias is no longer there?



Fair point.



Sorry, I'll just pretend she didn't say super problematic shit.

Damn I actually didnt know that it was so little. That's fucking terrible and it shouldn't be that way. Like I said we need to go into the new age with the oscars and hire new poeple to vote for this movies. Also I need new people to stop voting for clear oscar bait.

 

[generic_username]

Aren't we going a bit too far now? Hasn't this something to do with US demographics? I mean, otherwise I don't see why no one is complaining why Japanese, Indian or Chinese cinema doesn't feature more diverse casts. IIRC Chinese and Indian cinema are even bigger than Hollywood at this point.

Current Bollywood is one of the most racist movie industries out there. The obession with white skin in that industry is terrible. Most leads there have to be white to see big funding. Pathetic really but not surprised considering they still sell shit like this in India

 

[ANDS]

Oh, right. Clearly, for the past eight decades, one black woman was good enough to win Best Actress, and only one. Thanks for clarifying.

There is legitimate willful ignorance if you truly think that the dominance by white people is the product of superior acting rather than a 94% white, 77% male group with a median age of 65.

Again. How is that RACIST? No one is denying a lack of diversity. A lack of diversity is not a preponderance of racism. You've been all over these threads throwing out the same lines over and over again and you've yet to actually come out and point to "proof" that The Academy is racist by design other than a dearth of black acting wins (and completing ignoring the actual nominations or other prominent award bodies).

You can argue there is some ipso facto relationship here, but you sure as hell haven't demonstrated it.

 

[Gastone]

What point is valid? Is it the one where she claims that everyone is more-or-less accepted? Or that "what if black people just weren't talented enough this year?"

In the context of the Oscar noms, i think both her points are valid. I think that people overlook the REAL problem with the Oscars..which is about, as a mentioned, lobbying, brown nosing and knowing the right people. Voters are not sitting on their couch, watching their mediocre screeners going "I'm not gonna vote for him/her, cause he's/she's black!".

This is kind of a non-sequitur, ain't it? There's a lot of fucking dumb actors. Just because they're good at acting doesn't actually make them immune to stupidity. The two aren't necessarily linked at all.

I'm also curious as to what about her point you actually agree with.

See above. And, yes of course there are dumb actors, and she might be one. But imo, her statement here doesn't qualify her to fit into that category.

What the hell is this.

My thoughts on the matter.

 

[aeolist]

Again. How is that RACIST? No one is denying a lack of diversity. A lack of diversity is not a preponderance of racism. You've been all over these threads throwing out the same lines over and over again and you've yet to actually come out and point to "proof" that The Academy is racist by design other than a dearth of black acting wins (and completing ignoring the actual nominations or other prominent award bodies).

You can argue there is some ipso facto relationship here, but you sure as hell haven't demonstrated it.

do you think it's even possible to "prove" racism to your satisfaction?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Racism is a structure where white people is at the top of the hierarchy thus when viewing racism as a structure there can be no racism to white people.

This.


Not in America where the ideology is white supremacy anyways.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Again. How is that RACIST? No one is denying a lack of diversity. A lack of diversity is not a preponderance of racism. You've been all over these threads throwing out the same lines over and over again and you've yet to actually come out and point to "proof" that The Academy is racist by design other than a dearth of black acting wins (and completing ignoring the actual nominations or other prominent award bodies).

You can argue there is some ipso facto relationship here, but you sure as hell haven't demonstrated it.

So what you're saying is that I need to find examples of the Academy saying "we don't nominate black people as a general principle"

Seriously, this is the most ridiculous argument. The Academy is racist because 96% of the judges are white, and judges are invited. That alone is enough to claim that there is racial bias. Further, logically speaking, the simplest explanation is the one that we should give more credence to. To me, it's a pretty complex explanation to claim that hey, maybe black people just got beat this year, and the year before, and decades before.

Like I asked earlier, do you think that the Academy was racist at one point in its existence?

 

[ANDS]

do you think it's even possible to "prove" racism to your satisfaction?

Sure. Show me a voting member or give me an anecdote of a voting member suggesting that white actors generally deliver more Oscar worthy performances. In a town that size, with that much booze running through it it can't be that hard to get someone to slip.

 

[aeolist]

so people are totally willing to admit that oscar noms and wins are a result of politicking, cronyism, snobbery, and ad campaigns but any amount of racial bias is beyond the pale for some reason? because we can't prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?

we can't prove that other shit either but everyone accepts that it's there

 

[PBY]

Sure. Show me a voting member or give me an anecdote of a voting member suggesting that white actors generally deliver more Oscar worthy performances. In a town that size, with that much booze running through it it can't be that hard to get someone to slip.

Lol damn; you'll just never see this from the other side I guess.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

A lack of diversity is not a preponderance of racism.

Explain how the lack of diversity occurs without an element of racial bias coming into play.

I've explained above how low-key and relatively innocently said biases can factor in (and become cemented) when it comes to recognition, much less the actual consideration of casting non-White actors for a wider variety of roles. Please explain how an unquestionable lack of diversity can be divorced from racial biases in this industry.

 

[aeolist]

Sure. Show me a voting member or give me an anecdote of a voting member suggesting that white actors generally deliver more Oscar worthy performances. In a town that size, with that much booze running through it it can't be that hard to get someone to slip.

What no one wants to say out loud is that Selma is a well-crafted movie, but there's no art to it. If the movie had been directed by a 60-year-old white male, I don't think that people would have been carrying on about it to the level that they were. And as far as the accusations about the Academy being racist? Yes, most members are white males, but they are not the cast of Deliverance — they had to get into the Academy to begin with, so they're not cretinous, snaggletoothed hillbillies. When a movie about black people is good, members vote for it. But if the movie isn't that good, am I supposed to vote for it just because it has black people in it? I've got to tell you, having the cast show up in T-shirts saying "I can't breathe" [at their New York premiere] — I thought that stuff was offensive. Did they want to be known for making the best movie of the year or for stirring up shit?

i'd call that openly racist

 

[Siegcram]

I see we're back to Htown's popular quantum racism theorem. Fascinating.

 

[Sapiens]

The Oscars are complete bullshit - and wow at Michael Cain...jesus.

 

[ANDS]

So what you're saying is that I need to find examples of the Academy saying "we don't nominate black people as a general principle"

Something. Anything other than a weak association that you have at the moment.

Seriously, this is the most ridiculous argument.

My thoughts exactly.

The Academy is racist because 96% of the judges are white, and judges are invited. That alone is enough to claim that there is racial bias. Further, logically speaking, the simplest explanation is the one that we should give more credence to. To me, it's a pretty complex explanation to claim that hey, maybe black people just got beat this year, and the year before, and decades before.

Or maybe, just maybe the two are confounded by something else. Since you're all about that logic and all.

Like I asked earlier, do you think that the Academy was racist at one point in its existence?

I never suggested they aren't racist; just that you haven't demonstrated it one way or another and that because SOC and Sam Jackson didn't get a wink and a nod doesn't make it so.

 

[Johndoey]

Thus thread has taught me the only real racism is overt and ingrained racism simply is a myth. Nope racism is never a factor in a persons decision making unless they are the type to shout slurs from the rooftops.

 

[aeolist]

Explain how the lack of diversity occurs without an element of racial bias coming into play.

people like to say that it's bias on the production side, not the awards

ignoring the fact that the people voting for academy awards are the same ones that run hollywood

 

[El Topo]

I never suggested they aren't racist; just that you haven't demonstrated it one way or another and that because SOC and Sam Jackson didn't get a wink and a nod doesn't make it so.

How could you possibly prove racism in this case, other than general statistics? Don't get me wrong, it is a complex matter and properly interpreting data is very difficult, so I am not accusing the Academy of racism, but it does not seem particularly farfetched, given the nature of awards, that race is a factor, if only unconsciously (e.g. due to social circles or the composition of the Academy).

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I never suggested they aren't racist

What are you doing then?

I don't get this: If you're allowing (and apparently open to the idea) that racial biases can (and do) factor into the decisionmaking behind both the casting of non-White faces, and the voting for the industry's awards, why are you arguing against the suggestion said biases are a huge part of the very observable lack of diversity?

 

[Slayven]

Explain how the lack of diversity occurs without an element of racial bias coming into play.

I've explained above how low-key and relatively innocently said biases can factor in (and become cemented) when it comes to recognition, much less the actual consideration of casting non-White actors for a wider variety of roles. Please explain how an unquestionable lack of diversity can be divorced from racial biases in this industry.

Maybe minorities are just not good enough.

Hollywood is a true merit based industiry

 

[A Link to the Past]

Or maybe, just maybe the two are confounded by something else. Since you're all about that logic and all.

What is that "something else"?

people like to say that it's bias on the production side, not the awards

ignoring the fact that the people voting for academy awards are the same ones that run hollywood

Exactly. Those Oscar bait movies aren't going to cast black people because the Academy predominantly nominates white people.

 

[jorgeton]

Explain how the lack of diversity comes about without an element of racial bias coming into play.

I've explained above how low-key and relatively innocently said biases can factor in (and become cemented) when it comes to recognition, much less the actual consideration of casting non-White actors for a wider variety of roles. Please explain how an unquestionable lack of diversity can be divorced from racial biases in this industry.

Just have to say I love your posts in this thread. Really lucid and well said.

In the US at least, racism is a lot more insidious than just "I hate you because of your race." It's a structural and systemic institution that keeps people of color as a "less than" below white people (white men, really), but until recently its been swept under the carpet or outright dismissed, like Charlotte Rampling does in her interview. So I am glad people are calling out the Oscars on this BS. At the end of the day, the Oscars are a dumb award show, but they have enough pull in the public eye to hopefully shine a light on the larger discourse of race and privilege in this country.

 

[LegendofLex]

Something. Anything other than a weak association that you have at the moment.

Isn't one of the basic assumptions behind the idea of systemic racism that overt intent doesn't matter as much as the results do? That is, even if you can't prove that the system is intentionally discriminating against minotiries, the fact that the awards exclude minorities in the first place is itself the proof of racism?