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Oscar nominee Charlotte Rampling says diversity row is 'racist to white people'

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A

A Link to the Past

Banned
EdibleKnife said:
Hmm no. We don't hate white people. We'd actually love for white people to acknowledge how their biases continuously allows for these situations where surprisingly they manage to cast, shoot and award the accomplishments of their fellows rather than making a concerted effort to demolish their biases and begin restructuring to form an Academy invested in awarding a diverse range of people.
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Yo, this is not only a burner account as Slayven kindly pointed out, but the particular person behind it isn't worth talking to.

ANDS said:
Many people are left out who were actually better than those three according to Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. I don't see anyone whining that Tom Hardy didn't get a nomination despite Mad Max being a better film according to both metrics.
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Tom Hardy hasn't been snubbed for decades. What is with people comparing "actor" to "all POC actors"?

Because I already answered it.
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And yet, Bobby didn't understand your answer. Why don't you try explaining it again?
 
B

BlueInfinity22

Banned
SG-17 said:
5 posts, registered last year, anime avatar.

Yep, all checks out. Someone is unhappy they can't be openly racist here.
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> Doesn't address the points
> Attacks the person and not the points brought up
> Ignores any evidence to the contrary of his own viewpoint
> Calls others "Junior"

I see we have a live one.

EDIT: I just realized you claimed you can't be racist against white people. So what are you even trying to say here? Lmao
 
Flying Toaster

Flying Toaster

Member
SG-17 said:
There is no way for a white person on a white majority (rule and/or population) nation to experience racism.

Prejudice yes, racism, the institutional structure of oppression, no.
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Respect knuckles!

BlueInfinity22 said:
I know you said this ironically, but there's actually people who believe this lmao

EDIT:




Speak of the devil...
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A person gains the honor of GAF and this is the 4th post in a year.

Fuck off.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
BlueInfinity22 said:
> Doesn't address the points
> Attacks the person and not the points brought up
> Ignores any evidence to the contrary of his own viewpoint
> Calls others "Junior"

I see we have a live one.

EDIT: I just realized you claimed you can't be racist against white people. So what are you even trying to say here? Lmao
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Can you elaborate upon the evidence you allegedly presented? It sounds to me like you just offered a perspective and claimed that people were asking for a quota to be enlisted. I would surely love evidence that anyone here asked for a quota.

Gastone said:
That's incredibly arrogant. Who are you to decide if she's right or wrong? You can disagree with her, but you simply just can't state for a fact that she is wrong...or right, for that matter.
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Yeah, she kind of claimed that all people are pretty much accepted, so either racism doesn't exist and she's right or racism does still exist and she's wrong.

(note: she's wrong.)
 
A

APF

Member
The dictionary definition explicitly indicates discrimination borne by the notion of hierarchy / supremacy, and not simply arbitrary situational distinctions. This is why when people seem to imply that maybe whites are Just That Good, they get the side-eye.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
BlueInfinity22 said:
> Doesn't address the points
> Attacks the person and not the points brought up
> Ignores any evidence to the contrary of his own viewpoint
> Calls others "Junior"

I see we have a live one.
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You post stupid shit like this
BlueInfinity22 said:
This thread can be summed up in one sentence: We hate White People, and Actors shouldn't be nominated on merit but being not-white.
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and you look like a throwaway account, and you're surprised when people think you're a throwaway account?

LOL fuck off.
 
A

ANDS

Banned
A Link to the Snitch said:
Tom Hardy hasn't been snubbed for decades. What is with people comparing "actor" to "all POC actors"?
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You're here arguing that Coogler and Elba and Jordan are a particular breed of actor among those not recognized (ignoring that Elba and the rest of Beasts are likely to get their due in June) and I'm simply suggesting that there was stiff competition in the losers bracket.

And yet, Bobby didn't understand your answer. Why don't you try explaining it again?
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That's their fault, not mine; the sentence (and my position) isn't particularly unclear.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
ANDS said:
Because I already answered it.
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No, you didn't.

And a refresher, from the beginning of the thread:

Benicio Del Toro
Jason Mitchell
Michael B. Jordan
Tessa Thompson
Kiki Rodriguez
Idris Elba
Abraham Atta
Samuel L. Jackson
Chiwetel Ejiofor
Oscar Isaac
Angela Bassett
Will Smith

Now, lets stack this up against a list of actors actually nominated for their awards:

Bryan Cranston
Matt Damon
Leonardo DiCaprio
Michael Fassbender
Eddie Redmayne
Cate Blanchett
Brie Larson
Jennifer Lawrence
Charlotte Rampling
Saoirse Ronan

Would I suggest you could wholesale swap one list for the other? No. But is it plausible there are some on the one side that could easily occupy a spot on the other? Absolutely.

The problem with the voting isn't a question of merit so much as it is a question of voters getting out of their own way and allowing for different types of people and stories to get a fair shake. Very often voters (and White male audiences in general) straight up balk at the prospect of having to find their way into a narrative without automatically latching onto a main character that looks and sounds like them, and will come up with reasons why they shouldn't have to. A lot of the time, those reasons sound something like "that's not for me," or "I just don't like it," or "I can't relate."

At the core of those reasons is a racial bias, an assumption that maneuvering themselves into a headspace where they can relate isn't worth the effort, especially considering how many other entertainment options are out there where the status quo will be strongly served. Look at how many people would (and do) handwave the possibilty of Angela Bassett getting a nomination for Chi-Raq simply because it's Chi-Raq. Sight unseen, it can't be considered, because it's not that kind of movie.

And that's just one example of baked-in racial (and gender) bias that many people don't even consider consciously when deciding who and what to reward with their time, much less actual rewards.

ANDS said:
the sentence (and my position) isn't particularly unclear.
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The sentence isn't unclear. The reasoning behind it absolutely is. Which is why I'm asking you to explain it.

That you won't, even though you have no qualms repeating yourself in other instances within the thread, is pretty telling.

I'll stop asking.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
EdibleKnife said:
You have heard of implicit bias right? People can declare one thing and generally still perform in a way that's detrimental to another group. An Academy member doesn't have to say that they they truly believe black actors are worse, they just have to vote with their implicit bias of preferring white actors which they may or may not be fully aware of. They're not evil for holding that type of implicit bias, but an unwillingness to recognize it and in turn work toward changing those attitudes leads to a structure that is racist. That just is what it is.
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Where is the line drawn between genuinely feeling like person A gave a better performance and subconsciously being biased to feel that way though? Not saying that this isn't an actual thing, but if someone is truly subconscious about their bias, it's like asking them to not actually vote for who they feel gave the best performance but to vote for a minority so that they don't appear biased.

I think that distinction is almost impossible to make without someone being outwardly conscious about their bias.
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
Jzero said:
I hate this statement. I know plenty of racist people that aren't white.
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I think this is one of the biggest that racism is still so prevalent in the US vs. other countries.

I don't know why, but Americans are taught growing up that it's impossible to be a racist if you're a racial minority.

Even though that doesn't make logical sense.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Seriously though, for anyone who thinks that maybe, black people just get overlooked a lot or white people just performed better or it's just that the industry is racist and there aren't enough roles to nominate, please answer this with a yes or a no:

Were the Oscars ever racist?
 
Q

qcf x2

Member
I'm slightly conflicted. On the one hand, I haven't seen any acting performances by black actors that I felt were award-worthy the past year. On the other hand, I know for a fact that it's mostly because the industry leans on the ones that are already there (and established as "safe," but also are pretty much finished products as far as ability), and doesn't give new blood a chance unless they're names that are known from elsewhere (ie music). And that's the core issue imo, and that's what is getting glossed over. Not recognition, but opportunity. The only way I see this changing is if more people decide to vote with their wallets. The industry makes so much money from people complaining about lack of representation but still paying to watch the latest all-white feature film.

On my third hand (I'm blessed), I think these award shows are fluffy, egotistical and not worth my viewing time, so I don't watch them. Don't want to contribute to the machine. And if I was an actor, I think I would value an oscar about the same as I would value a Grammy as a musician, which is to say it would be a doorstop. My opinion, of course.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
ANDS said:
You're here arguing that Coogler and Elba and Jordan are a particular breed of actor among those not recognized (ignoring that Elba and the rest of Beasts are likely to get their due in June) and I'm simply suggesting that there was stiff competition in the losers bracket.



That's their fault, not mine; the sentence (and my position) isn't particularly unclear.
Click to expand...

I'm arguing that this happens every single year, and particularly to POC.

Also, no one in this thread understands how his question is answered by your post, so is everyone but you just a fool?
 
J

jorgeton

Member
KorrZ said:
Where is the line drawn between genuinely feeling like person A gave a better performance and subconsciously being biased to feel that way though? Not saying that this isn't an actual thing, but if someone is truly subconscious about their bias, it's like asking them to not actually vote for who they feel gave the best performance but to vote for a minority so that they don't appear biased.

I think that distinction is almost impossible to make without someone being outwardly conscious about their bias.
Click to expand...

I think if they are asked to be conscious of their bias, that will help. It's very easy to fall into your personal routines and biases, but if you are asked to take a look inward at them and acknowledge them, change is possible. Which is what all of this nudging of the Oscars committee will hopefully accomplish.
 
N

number47

Member
A Link to the Snitch said:
Seriously though, for anyone who thinks that maybe, black people just get overlooked a lot or white people just performed better or it's just that the industry is racist and there aren't enough roles to nominate, please answer this with a yes or a no:

Were the Oscars ever racist?
Click to expand...
If they are, then Jamie foxx really wasn't good in ray.
 
H

harSon

Banned
I guess it's not surprising that the daughter of an army officer during the height of the British Empire is unable to her own privilege.
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
Dusk Soldier said:
I think this is one of the biggest that racism is still so prevalent in the US vs. other countries.

I don't know why, but Americans are taught growing up that it's impossible to be a racist if you're a racial minority.

Even though that doesn't make logical sense.
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Well, on the macro level, it's pretty much impossible for a white person to be the victim of racist oppression and systemic discrimination when the institutions that are capable of using and/or allowing violence to oppress them and the systems that can discriminate against them demonstrate a clear bias in favor of whites and against minorities.

But, on the micro level, sure, a black dude could hate all white dudes and could commit a hate crime by targeting white dudes with violent acts. But I also don't think you need to believe that's racism to understand that it's wrong, while the same is not true for white privilege.

FStubbs said:
Discrimination. Nobody white suffers from discrimination for being white.
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This isn't totally true. While I was working at a nonprofit (staffed mostly by black/Latino volunteers, serving a mostly black/Latino constituency) in San Bernardino, I definitely experienced exclusion and there was definitely an undercurrent of "we don't trust white people" (as in I was literally in the same room as a conversation where those words were uttered).

That's a far cry from systemic discrimination, sure (and I'm not complaining about it, just pointing it out! after a longstanding tradition of minorities being mistreated by white people, it's understandable), but it's still a form of racially motivated treatment underscored by racially biased attitudes, and it oughtn't get handwaved as if it isn't actually a kind of discrimination just because it was minorities doing the excluding and a white person being excluded, or because in the grand scheme of things it wasn't really harmful.

Of course, this isn't at all what's going on with the academy debacle.
 
A

ANDS

Banned
A Link to the Snitch said:
I'm arguing that this happens every single year, and particularly to POC.
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What happens? Nominations or wins? Because, while the situation isn't ideal, since 2000 blacks haven't been sight unseen at The Oscars.

Also, no one in this thread understands how his question is answered by your post, so is everyone but you just a fool?
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You two are the only ones going on about it.

Bobby Roberts said:
At the core of those reasons is a racial bias, an assumption that maneuvering themselves into a headspace where they can relate isn't worth the effort, especially considering how many other entertainment options are out there where the status quo will be strongly served. Look at how many people would (and do) handwave the possibilty of Angela Bassett getting a nomination for Chi-Raq simply because it's Chi-Raq. Sight unseen, it can't be considered, because it's not that kind of movie.
Click to expand...

You're again arguing as if what you are meant to demonstrate is already proven.

That you won't, even though you have no qualms repeating yourself in other instances within the thread, is pretty telling.
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Believe what you wish.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
number47 said:
Why would I worry about something illogical and unfair as racism?

Why not focus on my craft and get respect from my local peers. Not just everyone. Cuz not everyone is important.
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racism negatively impacts the lives of minorities in material ways. it's not just "this individual thinks i'm a lesser being than they are", it's a million things, mostly small and sometimes large, that prick at you day in and day out. one of the worst parts is that it's so obtuse that it can make you paranoid when bad things happen, because you never know for sure if it's because of racism.

it's not something that can just be shrugged off. blacks in american worry about racism because it affects them whether they like it or not.
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
KorrZ said:
Where is the line drawn between genuinely feeling like person A gave a better performance and subconsciously being biased to feel that way though? Not saying that this isn't an actual thing, but if someone is truly subconscious about their bias, it's like asking them to not actually vote for who they feel gave the best performance but to vote for a minority so that they don't appear biased.

I think that distinction is almost impossible to make without someone being outwardly conscious about their bias.
Click to expand...

It's a very hard line to draw but it is an insidious part of several different arenas from race to gender to sexuality. A voter probably isn't going to know without some amount of self reflection if their voting for All male comedy X vs all female comedy Y because they inherently just find male comedians funnier than female ones. If they can actually think about it and internalize questions like "why do I feel this way about this?" it goes a long way into opening up a person's receptiveness to hearing stories that aren't just from the perspective of the same group they fall into. The push for diversifying their membership might help a lot to in exposing more people to more varied kinds of stories so that the cycle doesn't just continue where, straight white male movie is praised > straight white male creators identify more strongly with movie and create movies to that same perspective >straight white male movie is praised. A lot of areas where diversity is an issue could change so much if they weren't so afraid to question or challenge the status quo, not only in general but in the way they themselves think, just a little bit. Staunch acceptance and adherence to the way things are just because and apathy or vitriol when someone says "It doesn't have to be this way" is why this kind of thing can continue.
 
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