This honestly scares me more than Wilders. I doubt we'll have a governing coalition with the PVV in it, but the VVD has been showing a level of conservatism that I'm not comfortable with and they're probably going to be among the three largest parties again.
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OT | Dutch General Election 2017 | Exit Poll: Major underperformance for Wilders
- Thread starter CrunchyB
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This honestly scares me more than Wilders. I doubt we'll have a governing coalition with the PVV in it, but the VVD has been showing a level of conservatism that I'm not comfortable with and they're probably going to be among the three largest parties again.
The advert they did recently with the 'If you don't like it, move out of the country'-line (paraphrased of course) is kind of exemplary for the sort of behaviour that creeps me out. I have never been someone who would vote for VVD, but did see that party as reasonable and very capable of ruling the country. That advert however kind of struck a big dent in what I thought that party was all about.
I'm personally thinking about D66 this year. I know, it's always the boring/safe choice, but as of right now they're simply the most sensible choice for me. I haven't done the necessary homework yet though, so I'll get on that this weekend.
The kieswijzer goes online next week, right?
That move was a shameless attempt to steal some votes from the Wilders crowd - specifically the people that are just as scared about foreigners/terror attacks, but aren't quite comfortable going full nazi. They definitely wouldn't have done that if the US election turned out differently.
It's a dirty move though, and I hope it'll hurt them in the election. The VVD was never my party, but they definitely crossed a line here. For me at least. Even though I disagree with them on a lot of issues, they're supposed to be more inclusive than that. I get it, we need to take Wilders and his followers seriously. That's simply how the world works these days. But copying his language isn't way to do it.
The kieswijzer goes online next week, right?
That move was a shameless attempt to steal some votes from the Wilders crowd - specifically the people that are just as scared about foreigners/terror attacks, but aren't quite comfortable going full nazi. They definitely wouldn't have done that if the US election turned out differently.
It's a dirty move though, and I hope it'll hurt them in the election. The VVD was never my party, but they definitely crossed a line here. For me at least. Even though I disagree with them on a lot of issues, they're supposed to be more inclusive than that. I get it, we need to take Wilders and his followers seriously. That's simply how the world works these days. But copying his language isn't way to do it.
Boozeroony
Gold Member
D66 is also my safe choice. Any coalition between D66/VVD would be fine. Probably a 4 party coalition though
.D66 is also my safe choice. Any coalition between D66/VVD would be fine. Probably a 4 party coalition though
Paars is an option too. A bit middle-of-the-road but I won't mind that.
I think a 4 party-coalition wouldn't be that bad. VVD, PvdA, D66 and a smaller party? If those three parties are in, I don't think there is a chance SP would make it. CDA or Christen Unie, although I really don't hope so, they are the obvious candidates. Of course, I hope Partij voor de Dieren as a party being actually considered in forming a coalition, but they are small fry and also in no way ready to be a ruling party I think.
CDA would work well. GL is also possible, but depends on negotiations I suppose.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
We won't (just to make it clear I will not vote for him in any way or form).
But I'm saying his party will be voted on in droves and will be at least 2nd biggest.
Ah yes, I forgot about GL. Lots of people can't stand Jesse Klaver, but I wouldn't underestimate the guy myself. He already has a few years of political experience, can hold his own in a debate, isn't afreaid to voice his opinion even if it's not a popular one and maybe can bring a fresh view on leftist politics.
I do have to admit as others already said in this topic, there is way too little focus on IT and IT security, that is worrying in a society that is rapidly digitizing.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Predictable outcome for me in the Stemmentracker. GL, PvdA and PvdD. Yeah, I'm pretty green.
D66 lower than I thought. Bottom: VVD and PVV.
runningjoke
Member
Voted VVD in last election, but right now the environment feels important to me so I'm thinking about voting GL.
Like I said in another thread. I have zero knowledge of politics. Which is 100% my fault for not getting involved. But it's just something I don't really care for that much and it feels like it takes a whole lot of time to properly delve into all the material there is.
But that said, I really do want to do my part and vote. If you see the disasters that are Brexit and Trump that happened, party, because of the many young people that just didn't vote. I don't want something to happen like that here with Wilders or whatever.
I've seen a super short list of the parties and their ideas and I'm leaning towards GroenLinks. But I kinda remember that GL was this environmental group with no proper ideas regarding the economy and stuff. (No idea if this was actually ever the case lol, but that was my perception anyway.) What I'm getting at is that I don't want to be that Florida man that voted Mickey Mouse. I don't want to throw my vote away and enable something terrible to happen. Is GL a solid pick or is it a smarter move to use my vote for some other party?
Like I said, I'm totally oblivious.
But that said, I really do want to do my part and vote. If you see the disasters that are Brexit and Trump that happened, party, because of the many young people that just didn't vote. I don't want something to happen like that here with Wilders or whatever.
I've seen a super short list of the parties and their ideas and I'm leaning towards GroenLinks. But I kinda remember that GL was this environmental group with no proper ideas regarding the economy and stuff. (No idea if this was actually ever the case lol, but that was my perception anyway.) What I'm getting at is that I don't want to be that Florida man that voted Mickey Mouse. I don't want to throw my vote away and enable something terrible to happen. Is GL a solid pick or is it a smarter move to use my vote for some other party?
Like I said, I'm totally oblivious.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I'd say GL is a very solid pick, but I'm biased. I don't agree with all their points but I agree with about 75 to 80 percent of their ideas, whixh is higher than any party. And the envionment is pretty much the most important point for me right now, so there's that.
I don't agree with all their points but I agree with about 75 to 80 percent of their ideas, whixh is higher than any party. And the envionment is pretty much the most important point for me right now, so there's that.runningjoke
Member
I'd suggest reading their website and maybe watching some interviews. If you like what you read/hear then that is fine I guess?
Cabaratier
Neo Member
Groenlinks is a solid pick. It's focus is (appropriately) on the environment and climate change, but just as much on tax reform, education, European cooperation, justice, net neutrality, cybersecurity etc. You can find the programme here https://groenlinks.nl/sites/groenlinks.nl/files/Verkiezingsprogramma-GroenLinks-2017-2021.pdf.
The party lists consists of party veterans and (I think) very capable newcomers. I personally dislike their seeming lack of interest in increased defense spending (the word 'defense' appears once in the programme, against 24 times 'economy'), but you can't have it all.
GroenLinks seems to be the most popular choice among DutchGaf, myself included. So the question is, do you trust your Gaf brothers and sisters?
Economic policy is inspired on Piketty: lower taxes on work, higher taxes on income through capital. Higher taxes of top incomes and better limits on public sector functions. No more eigen risico on healthcare. And of course, promote clean economy/energy.
SecretSphere
Member
I think the OP has a few parties mixed between the 'maybe they will get a seat' and 'even more fringe', based on the polls. Forum voor Democratie has a seat in the polls of Maurice de Hond for weeks now, while Geenpeil, Artikel 1 and Ondernemers Partij never have, as far as I know.
I think DENK is almost guarenteed getting seats. Kuzu and Öztürk had lots of votes when they were in the PvdA. I even think polls are underestemating their standing, because of the specific, mostly Turkish, voter base.
I think DENK is almost guarenteed getting seats. Kuzu and Öztürk had lots of votes when they were in the PvdA. I even think polls are underestemating their standing, because of the specific, mostly Turkish, voter base.
It may be a boring /safe choice, but in this day and age, looking at what is happening in other countries, I would argue going for the boring but safe choice is probably not the worst idea.
Prophet Steve
Member
GroenLinks seems solid, doubting between that and D66.
It's funny, three of the four new parties that were making big waves weeks ago (Forum voor democratie, Geen peil and Voor Nederland) are pretty silent at the moment. Denk too, however thay seem to get negatively in the news about once every week.
Actually, I think it's still very quiet campaign-wise with every political party...
Actually, I think it's still very quiet campaign-wise with every political party...
The Dutch Slayer
Member
Well compared to politics USA side that is just dominating the news right now it just all over every other news out there.
It will come late Feb it will be in full swing.
Yeah, you are probably correct, they are there because I wanted to take some cheap shots
I'll move them and add some more about the smaller parties later on.I also think DENK should be able to get 2 seats fairly easy, based on previous performance plus more exposure. Not looking forward to that, but hey.
Regarding Forum voor Democratie though, I think Baudet is a walking, talking bad joke. Same with Jan Roos, I hate those clowns for the irresponsible Ukraine referundum. I actually have a bunch of Ukrainian coworkers and I had to explain to them wtf was going on.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
That's because they're all on the Putin anti-EU payroll. I've read Thierry Baudet's articles, he's an idiot who just uses a lot of 10-dollar words to sound like he's defending democracy when in reality he wants to kill it. He's a paid anarchist wearing a suit.
Also, he wrote a letter for doing another investigation into MH17 because, and I do quote, "maybe it wasn't the Russians". He couldn't be a more obvious plant if he tried.
Geenstijl (in the form of GeenPeil) has been playing along with that game too, and their "referendum" was a huge embarrassment for anyone who then came to realize the treaty is mostly about food to survive an active war. Which, btw, has been rekindled thanks to President Puppet of the US. They're laying low because they're trying to avoid being staked like the vampires of democracy they are. Fustah!
The anti-muslim rhetoric is part of that equation (Russia is dominantly a branch of Christian Orthodox) and will probably not do well with current events. Brabant-Limburg may be a den of fools (I would know, unfortunately), but carnaval is before the elections and it will be a good place to get them to realize their own shittyness.
A lot of previous CDA voters here went populistic in recent years and they probably go with PVV, back to CDA (which is a good thing, because they're a solid government party, regardless of whether you like them or not), and that 50Plus crazy-people party. Nothing like entitled baby boomers thinking they need even more money, while blaming their kids for not being able to get or hold jobs, because that's the real job market now, but they don't get that.
I'll stick with my usual D66 vote.
All of them have authoritarian tendencies. DENK will be sneaking into Parliament though it won't be as huge because Simmons's base won't be joining the party.
I really dislike DENK, of all the problems that needs attention in this country, they had the renaming of the Coen tunnel as a priority on their list. Jokers.
Refuses to criticize Erdogan or Putin. When their base basically approves whatever Erdogan is doing in Turkey and judging by the massive support Erdogan received in this country by people who were born here and who should be defending our democracy. Massive red flag of things to come down the road when DENK enters Parliament.
Jan Dijkgraaf is another opportunist that spends his time spewing nonsense. This goes way back when he used to pretend he was an expert on every issue.
MisterFalcon
Member
The Piratenpartij also puts out some of the same odious stuff how Russia cannot be blamed for anything like MH17 or the Litvinenko murder without 100000% ironclad proof. No one else gets this kind of treatment but if the regular media and government says A then B is automatically the position to support for internet anarchists. So you have the party leader being interviewed on Russian state TV to talk about how Dutch media is all propaganda.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they are on the Putin payroll, however I do think they understate the importance of the EU in a huge way.
Then again, by not working together and instead forming their own parties, Jan Roon, Jan Dijkgraaf and Theirry Baudet split up their voters and started what I call 'The loudest Voice of Holland'. The split up however means they won't have any significant impact this election.
Also, an election is something else than a ranting piece on GeenStijl, TPO or any social medium. They have to prove what they are worth. Jan Dijkgraaf and Jan Roos seem to be image more than substance and even seem icompetent to me. I could be wrong though, but I never caught Jan Roos saying something intelligent. Thierry Baudet seems to be the most capable person of the new parties, but even he doesn't seem to get past his online persona when making media appearances.
That's another thing. All new parties immediately go for the country wide elections. There used to be a time where political parties started small and organically grew in time. SP for example. Nowadays, when a new political party is formed, they immediately go for the crown and are even surprised when they fail. It's bizarre, really.
I would love it if some sort of system was introduced where new political parties are forced to start at a local level (meaning city elections), and from there, if succesvol, may enter the province elections (which also elects De Eerste Kamer if I'm not mistaken, so it makes sense to go for the province elections first before going country wide. After all, if your party had no presence in de eerste kamer, it's hard to succesfully propose legislation right?). Then, if they are succesfull in that, might think about enetring the country elections.
While I don't disagree here, the reality is that nobody pays attention to local politics and news any more. The turnout in municipal elections, Provinciale Staten elections etc is just too low to build a solid base. Furthermore, grassroots movements are now build online and have lost their geographic restrictions a lot. In that sense, going national directly is just the way to go. But yeah, we have too many idiots shouting from the sidelines. What I think would help is more inner party democracy, but hardly anyone becomes a member anymore. Of course that has the risk of tea party like hijacks, but it would be something.
I actually became a member of GroenLinks, back in November. Not really active just yet, but I'm going to the big meet-up.
As someone who considers himself slightly right of center but also actually a decent person, it's always slim pickings and I end up by default at D66. In the Dijkstal era I might have switched it up with VVD every now and then, but they slid down so far into populist territory I'm never going back to them. I like Jesse Klaver, but after Halsema put them on a, for me, very interesting trajectory, it seems like they've reverted back to some of their more leftist roots. Maybe I'll convince my wife to vote for him. She's Christian, so she's raised to believe D66 is the devil.
Am considering doing that myself too. Been a loyal voter of them since the Halsema era and have always respected their positions. Im a bit distrustful of Klaver though, Liesbeth van Tongeren is getting my vote.
Cabaratier
Neo Member
The Stemwijzer for the 2017 election was launched today.
https://tweedekamer2017.stemwijzer.nl/#intro
Groenlinks and D66 in the high 70% (and DENK and article 1 for some reason, but I can't take those seriously) for me, but Groenlinks highest.
https://tweedekamer2017.stemwijzer.nl/#intro
Groenlinks and D66 in the high 70% (and DENK and article 1 for some reason, but I can't take those seriously) for me, but Groenlinks highest.
PVDA and D66 for me. Very close.
No party above 50% for me... This stemwijzer is shit, there is no nuance possible. Oh well, atleast SGP and PVV ended up at the bottom.
The Citizen Kane of Games
Member
D66 (70%) > GL (68%) > CU (54%). Quite unsurprising. Didn't include any of the joke parties in the results obviously. PVV came last (5%).
Eh, up to a point. At the same time, many of these issues have so much to them that to provide a full explanation of a party's stance could take pages.
Wind's Howling
Member
SP for me. Not surprised. It is the one party that has always been number 1 for me in the last 10 years.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Partij voor de Dieren, GroenLinks, D66 for me. First two were really close. Sorry Marianne, I have no beef with your party (and sorry for the pun), but my vote goes to Jesse.
Apparently I should vote for Lokaal in de Kamer. I have no idea who they are. Partij voor de Dieren and GroenLinks are number 2 and 3.
I don´t think I+m a very political person though, my compatibility with my top 3 was entirely in the low 60´s, with 63% being my highest.
runningjoke
Member
If you read the motivations from the parties none of them are 'agree' or 'disagree', they are all 'Well, actually...', to the point where the motivations from GL and PP in the European army question are basically the same, but GL chose 'agree' and PP 'disagree'
Cabaratier
Neo Member
I think that, at most, they'll get to keep the seats they already hold from when they were voted in on the PvdA ticket. Hopefully they'll lose at least one, but I highly doubt they'll suddenly take 3. But who knows, it's certainly possible that they have a larger following in (former) immigrant communities than we know of, but they just don't show in the polls.
Haha, Artikel 1: 82%
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Sorry, Sylvana. Also, curiously, I can't find the party programme on their website. They probably didn't get have time to write one yet. No rush through, elections are still a month off.
GroenLinks was number 2 at 77%, I breathed a sigh of relief there.
Just goed to show that Stemwijzer is really limited in scope. 50Plus for instance is at 38%, while it should be at 0% because I'm not a 65-year old selfish prick.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Sorry, Sylvana. Also, curiously, I can't find the party programme on their website. They probably didn't get have time to write one yet. No rush through, elections are still a month off.
GroenLinks was number 2 at 77%, I breathed a sigh of relief there.
Just goed to show that Stemwijzer is really limited in scope. 50Plus for instance is at 38%, while it should be at 0% because I'm not a 65-year old selfish prick.
BrassDragon
Member
The oracle of stemwijzer puts me at:
53% D66
53% VVD
53% Artikel 1
I certainly didn't see the last one coming but I haven't looked at their platform properly.
There aren't any significant law-enforcement talking points (except legalized weed, which I've come around to supporting.) Guess the police / intelligence community can look forward to another four years of poor strategic direction and under-budgeting whoever gets in power.
Anyway... I usually vote D66 and will likely do the same this time around. The VVD's stance on mandatory full prison terms and no pardon for second generation asylum seekers makes me cringe. Short-sighted, populist measures that lead to unintended consequences.
53% D66
53% VVD
53% Artikel 1
I certainly didn't see the last one coming but I haven't looked at their platform properly.
There aren't any significant law-enforcement talking points (except legalized weed, which I've come around to supporting.) Guess the police / intelligence community can look forward to another four years of poor strategic direction and under-budgeting whoever gets in power.
Anyway... I usually vote D66 and will likely do the same this time around. The VVD's stance on mandatory full prison terms and no pardon for second generation asylum seekers makes me cringe. Short-sighted, populist measures that lead to unintended consequences.
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