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[Aiii]

Am I the only one that prefers to judge politicians on things they've done during their run instead of whatever nonsense they spout during the election period? Doing the Stemwijzer seems completely pointless to me, you already know what these parties stand for, you already know whether or not they actually step up to the plate and keep their promises (looking at you, VVD) once they get elected.

I'd much rather base my vote on things these people have done in the past than the vague promises they make in the few months leading up to elections (again, looking at you, Rutte).

 

[TatteredHat]

Am I the only one that prefers to judge politicians on things they've done during their run instead of whatever nonsense they spout during the election period? Doing the Stemwijzer seems completely pointless to me, you already know what these parties stand for, you already know whether or not they actually step up to the plate and keep their promises (looking at you, VVD) once they get elected.

I'd much rather base my vote on things these people have done in the past than the vague promises they make in the few months leading up to elections (again, looking at you, Rutte).

I always use http://stemmentracker2017.stemmentracker.nl/ instead, because it does what you're talking about.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Not really many surprising results:

VVD - 73%
SGP - 70% (guessing this one drops like a stone if they put in some questions about abortion and their mandatory Sunday rest, among other religious things in their program).
CDA - 60%

 

[BrassDragon]

Am I the only one that prefers to judge politicians on things they've done during their run instead of whatever nonsense they spout during the election period? Doing the Stemwijzer seems completely pointless to me, you already know what these parties stand for, you already know whether or not they actually step up to the plate and keep their promises (looking at you, VVD) once they get elected.

I'd much rather base my vote on things these people have done in the past than the vague promises they make in the few months leading up to elections (again, looking at you, Rutte).

This is a tough call... in theory, the party infrastructure means that elected officials could be held to their platform by their own members. Even if they ignore electorate, their party should hold them to account. If you have faith in that, the platform is a very good indicator of future policy.

But unfortunately this system isn't as robust as it seems. I've seen it break down a few times as a longtime PVDA member where the elected officials went against their own constituency. I ended up cancelling my membership because of it.

 

[Funky Papa]

Good to know that Wilders continues to be a repugnant hobgoblin.

Geert Wilders, the leader of the Netherlands' far-right Party for Freedom (PVV), tweeted a doctored photo of his political rival surrounded by Islamists this week, raising concerns over fake news just five weeks before Dutch elections.

The photo, which Wilders posted on Monday, purports to show Alexander Pechtold, the leader of the Dutch social-liberal party, at a rally holding a sign that reads: "Islam will dominate the world, freedom can go to hell." Others pictured in the photo are holding up signs that read: "Shariah for the Netherlands," and "Islam will conquer Europe." The text above the image read: "Pechtold demonstrates with Hamas terrorists. What is the next step?"

Soon after Wilders posted the photo, others on Twitter pointed out that the original image was taken at a 2009 demonstration against Wilders, and that Pechtold's face had been Photoshopped onto someone else.

 

[BrassDragon]

Good to know that Wilders continues to be a repugnant hobgoblin.

Are we sure he confused the photo as real (you'd think the custodian hats of the British bobbies would be a major tip off) or is he trying to use a meme to show that this is where Pechtold's ideas will eventually lead?

Either way, he qualifies as repugnant.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Are we sure he confused the photo as real (you'd think the custodian hats of the British bobbies would be a major tip off) or is he trying to use a meme to show that this is where Pechtold's ideas will eventually lead?

Either way, he qualifies as repugnant.

It was the second, but like you said, unacceptable behavior either way.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Wilders is filth

 

[Soph]

Stemwijzer is being rather terrible, Turkish friend of mine had DENK as #1 even though he's been complaining about them for the past 6 months due to the Erdogan love.

 

[Aiii]

Stemwijzer is being rather terrible, Turkish friend of mine had DENK as #1 even though he's been complaining about them for the past 6 months due to the Erdogan love.

To be fair, it can't exactly smell that kind of stuff. I mean, it didn't ask me if I was religious before suggesting the ChristenUnie either.

 

[Soph]

To be fair, it can't exactly smell that kind of stuff. I mean, it didn't ask me if I was religious before suggesting the ChristenUnie either.

Questions are too lobsided.

 

[dodosaurus]

stemwijzer asking the important questions again. what does schiphol have to do with the 2e kamer?

 

[BrassDragon]

stemwijzer asking the important questions again. what does schiphol have to do with the 2e kamer?

Large infrastructure projects fall under the authority of the national government to avoid not-in-my-backyard reflexes by regional governments and citizens. No one at the regional level wants, say, a Chunnel or Betuwe Lijn or larger Schiphol but, the theory goes, for the good of the country they have to get done. There are usually environmental and economical considerations that transcend local interests.

So the extension of Schiphol will be disucssed in the Tweede Kamer and hence, be part of the electoral platforms.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Questions are too lobsided.

Reducing the number of items to a relative methodologically sound test is really difficult without pissing everyone off. This is probably the best you could do with a short list over four domains on two axis (so basically 7.5 items per domain, if balanced).

But obviously it's more an exploratory and conformation tool than an actual hard 'this is you' test.

Example: increasing defense budget and European army don't contradict each other, yet D66, GL, and Denk (which I had roughly 70% on all) answer them with disagree and agree respectively.

The Shiphol question is aimed specifically at lefties who can't be bothered to see a bigger picture of where those increases in flights will go if they don't increase capacity (I say this as someone who used to be like that). To be fair, Shiphol's location is very inconvenient for people living near it, but amazing for travelers. Ironically all my three primary suggestions are 'disagree' on that one - I think- , but I actually agree with it, because fuck people living near it. It's not as if nature is threatened by it (it really isn't, since the flight increase is independent of expansion, so the damage is being done regardless of taking advantage of an economic opportunity), it's just fucking people. I couldn't care less about their complaints. But a hardcore leftie will answer with "no, because bad for nature". So that's why it's on there. Just like the coal power plant question. I mean, I wish we could shut those down (the sooner the better), but it's not entirely realistic to do so yet when going nuclear isn't considered by both us and Germany, which we likely get most power from. People really have no idea what fourth and fifth gen reactors are, or how safe and clean they are. Seriously, there is no downside to a newer nuclear reactor versus fucking coal. buuuuut you can't convince people of that. :\

 

[dodosaurus]

Large infrastructure projects fall under the authority of the national government to avoid not-in-my-backyard reflexes by regional governments and citizens. No one at the regional level wants, say, a Chunnel or Betuwe Lijn or larger Schiphol but, the theory goes, for the good of the country they have to get done. There are usually environmental and economical considerations that transcend local interests.

So the extension of Schiphol will be disucssed in the Tweede Kamer and hence, be part of the electoral platforms.

i can understand the conflict of interest but not how it should be handled by the tweede kamer, doesn't the regional government set the rules for building in them?

 

[ClosingADoor]

i can understand the conflict of interest but not how it should be handled by the tweede kamer, doesn't the regional government set the rules for building in them?

The state owns most of the shares in Schiphol, so they'll decide in the end what happens with it I guess.

 

[BrassDragon]

i can understand the conflict of interest but not how it should be handled by the tweede kamer, doesn't the regional government set the rules for building in them?

Actually the regional government lost a lot of power to stop these projects in recent years because they were getting bogged down in appeals and decision-making, causing budgets to spiral out of control and frustrating the project management / delivery of commercial partners.

I think this is codified in the Crisis- en herstelwet. As far as I understand it, you can claim damages after the fact but it's a lot harder to stop these things while they're being rolled out.

 

[Cabaratier]

http://www.politico.eu/article/the-geert-wilders-effect-dutch-politics-mark-rutte-elections/

"The left has suffered the most from Wilders’ rise. As a former MP for Rutte’s party, Wilders has long held right-wing economic views. After his criticism of Islam and immigration turned out to do very well with less educated voters — traditional supporters of the left — he suddenly opposed attempts to slash funding for health care and other welfare state programs, confessing behind closed doors that these policies made no sense to him.

The effects were huge. (...) Scandal erupts again and again in his party. Over the years, his MPs have gotten in all kinds of trouble — for thing like urinating in a neighbor’s mailbox or running a porn company. Last year, Wilders’ spokesman was caught stealing close to €200,000 of party money to pay for his cocaine and alcohol addictions."

Says it all really, it's all lies and corruption covered by a very attractive hate of islam. That's one of the main issues I can't find an answer to: how do you convince PVV voters that they have never, and will never, actually vote for proposals that improve social security (including fighting climate change)? That Wilders is an extreme conservative through and through?

 

[Aiii]

You don't. It's pointless arguing facts with people that act and vote on semantics and feelings. All you can do is go vote for someone else.

 

[neorej]

Am I the only one that prefers to judge politicians on things they've done during their run instead of whatever nonsense they spout during the election period? Doing the Stemwijzer seems completely pointless to me, you already know what these parties stand for, you already know whether or not they actually step up to the plate and keep their promises (looking at you, VVD) once they get elected.

I'd much rather base my vote on things these people have done in the past than the vague promises they make in the few months leading up to elections (again, looking at you, Rutte).

Keeping promises is a hard metric to judge a politician by IMHO. We have a political system that requires lots of compromises from all parties in order to function. Sure, I'd love to see that €1000 Rutte promised me 4 years ago, but I never really expected it anyway. Election-promises are not set in stone, more like goals they set out to do. And the more people support reaching those goals, the more likely they'll reach them.

 

[SgtCobra]

Am I the only one that prefers to judge politicians on things they've done during their run instead of whatever nonsense they spout during the election period?
I'd much rather base my vote on things these people have done in the past than the vague promises they make in the few months leading up to elections (again, looking at you, Rutte).

No you're completely right, Rutte in particular tends to change his behaviour in de months leading to elections, it's really transparent.

 

[Aiii]

Keeping promises is a hard metric to judge a politician by IMHO. We have a political system that requires lots of compromises from all parties in order to function. Sure, I'd love to see that €1000 Rutte promised me 4 years ago, but I never really expected it anyway. Election-promises are not set in stone, more like goals they set out to do. And the more people support reaching those goals, the more likely they'll reach them.

I don't really care about things like that, what I do care about is how Rutte, as a supposed liberal, has still managed to steal over 100 Euro a month from me as a penalty for not wanting to buy a house. I live in a pretty expensive part of my hometown, but because it's not in the Randstad, it's not that expensive, yet I still get 6% rent increases every year because they feel it's fine to bully people with regular income into getting a 200k loan for a house they don't want.

Stuff like that is vastly more important to me than whatever promise you make about giving back 1000 euro. I haven't believed in crap like that since Wim Kok.

 

[CrunchyB]

No you're completely right, Rutte in particular tends to change his behaviour in de months leading to elections, it's really transparent.

I like campaign Rutte a whole lot less than PM Rutte. I respect him for his effort of trying to keep his wonky cabinet afloat but those latest populist soundbites just piss me off.

 

[neorej]

I don't really care about things like that, what I do care about is how Rutte, as a supposed liberal, has still managed to steal over 100 Euro a month from me as a penalty for not wanting to buy a house. I live in a pretty expensive part of my hometown, but because it's not in the Randstad, it's not that expensive, yet I still get 6% rent increases every year because they feel it's fine to bully people with regular income into getting a 200k loan for a house they don't want.

Stuff like that is vastly more important to me than whatever promise you make about giving back 1000 euro. I haven't believed in crap like that since Wim Kok.

Who are "they"? If you live in an expensive part of town, it can't be social housing, can it?

 

[Boozeroony]

I think Dijkhoff gets my vote. Smart guy, knows his stuff.

 

[Aiii]

Who are "they"? If you live in an expensive part of town, it can't be social housing, can it?

All they look at now is the rent you pay, not its origin, my house isn't social housing (My rent goes to a pensioenfonds, actually), but the rent is just below the liberal housing price (699 bruto) so it applies for subsidies (of course I don't qualify).

And "they" is the government and their Sheefwonen bs that is only a problem in certain cities. It applies to everyone that rents below that 699 price.

For the record, my bruto rent is at 682 Euro, currently, and there's only a handful of places I could move to in my town that would be above that. Which either means moving up to penthouses at 1000+ prices, which I can't afford, or upgrade to 10 square meters more to just get above that point. However, that would mean a couple 1000 worth in moving costs. I'm currently hoping that this policy ends with the next cabinet, or that I'm about to hit the max cap they can increase to, since I think that is still in place as I love where I live and have zero interest in buying, so fingers crossed.

What the government has forgotten when implementing this policy is that not everyone lives in the Randstad, not everyone gets paid randstad money (higher expenses = higher pay) and not everywhere has a shortage on affordable places to rent out... and what the VVD has forgotten is that they're supposed to be liberal and forcing people to buy instead of rent isn't very liberal, now is it... Where's my individual freedom of choosing where and how to live, huh?

I'm all for making low-rent places available for low-income households, this is very easy to implement. I'm all for checking income when appointing such housing. But I'm not living low-rent, and losing 100 Euro a month of my cash over the course of three years to fix a problem in the Randstad that is way easier to fix through other routes stings a lot.

 

[Condom]

http://www.politico.eu/article/the-geert-wilders-effect-dutch-politics-mark-rutte-elections/

"The left has suffered the most from Wilders' rise. As a former MP for Rutte's party, Wilders has long held right-wing economic views. After his criticism of Islam and immigration turned out to do very well with less educated voters — traditional supporters of the left — he suddenly opposed attempts to slash funding for health care and other welfare state programs, confessing behind closed doors that these policies made no sense to him.

The effects were huge. (...) Scandal erupts again and again in his party. Over the years, his MPs have gotten in all kinds of trouble — for thing like urinating in a neighbor's mailbox or running a porn company. Last year, Wilders' spokesman was caught stealing close to €200,000 of party money to pay for his cocaine and alcohol addictions."

Says it all really, it's all lies and corruption covered by a very attractive hate of islam. That's one of the main issues I can't find an answer to: how do you convince PVV voters that they have never, and will never, actually vote for proposals that improve social security (including fighting climate change)? That Wilders is an extreme conservative through and through?

How do you convince voters that vote for a party with literally a single sheet as their party program? You don't. You let them fall flat on their face and hope they learn their lesson.

 

[CrunchyB]

And "they" is the government and their Sheefwonen bs that is only a problem in certain cities. It applies to everyone that rents below that 699 price.

I'm also a scheefwoner. I was lucky to move out of my student room before I started to make decent money. I'm renting a tiny appartment just outside the centre part of Enschede for 390 a month.

I can afford the yearly price hikes but the policy is still crap, the problem is not on the demand side, it's on the supply side. It's ironic how the VVD of all parties seem to have problems understanding how any of this works. Build lots of affordable homes, get rid of the HRA (asap), get rid of huursubsidie (eventually) and let the market do it's thing. But of course it's easier to just extract more money from the scheefwoners while blaming them for the problem.

 

[spons]

Wilders is filth

I'm too stupid to understand why anyone would vote Wilders, even though it's the people voting for him who are the real idiots. His faintly-racist hollow non-statements about muslims are astounding.

Anyway, ever since the SP has revealed their true nature and ditched any form of self-determination with their stance against euthanasia they can fuck right off. I've voted for them many times but just can't support them anymore.

If I want to off myself at old age because the entire world has gone mad except for me I should be able to.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I think Dijkhoff gets my vote. Smart guy, knows his stuff.

Nice, funny guy; wrong party.

 

[ClosingADoor]

So, DENK uses internet trolls to push their campaign. Not surprising, but interesting tactic: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/02/10/nep-aanhang-online-actief-voor-denk-6642349-a1545568. Hope they get called out for it and it loses them some votes.

I'm too stupid to understand why anyone would vote Wilders, even though it's the people voting for him who are the real idiots. His faintly-racist hollow non-statements about muslims are astounding.

I wouldn't call them all idiots. I would rather blame the other parties for not fulfilling a clear political gap there by coming up with actual solutions for the problems Wilders voters see.

I hope we don't yet again get all the crap in the media with politicians and other people talking about how horrible the things are Wilders says, but instead talk about how to fix the problems he has horrible solutions for with actual workable solutions. Otherwise you'd get the same protest votes and push against the establishment we see in other countries (Trump, Brexit).

 

[Burnburn]

Have voted for D66 every time I could since I turned 18 (Except for locally) and will do that now again. Every time I see something about D66 in the newspaper for the last year I have agreed with their statement. Actually think GL is a very enticing vote as well, but D66 being a bit more mid pulls me towards them.

I'm from Limburg and a lot of people around me are very PVV oriented or close-minded. It really sucks though to know that there's so much close-minded around you. At the same time I also don't want to start the discussion with them because I don't want to have people think badly of me. Plus I suck at discussing stuff so that doesn't help either. The only time I got into a discussion so far was a few weeks ago when some people were talking about AOW and how they'd be "working at 80 if things go on like this". So I told them that's a ridiculous statement and that increase of AOW is needed for everyone, the people who will retire and people that will be supporting the people retired. That we need it because "vergrijzing". Atleast this is what i read about it so I'm not sure if it's 100% true, but I've thought about it and it sounds really logical to me. I even suggested it might go down again when the "vergrijzing" decreases which I shouldn't have because it'll never happen.

So yeah it's hard living around here knowing a lot of people vote PVV. Time to look up what some parties stand for so I can maybe even persuade someone. But at the same time I don't want to be "that guy". Honestly I just want to yell at PVV voters to think, but that makes me just as bad as them

 

[Kabouter]

What I don't get is young people voting PVV or SP. The PVV, SP and 50Plus want to add a floor to the rekenrente for pensions, which in the long term will lead young people to receive a 30%(!) reduction in their pension payout according to calculations by the Central Planning Agency. This, in a system that is already more favourable to those older now than those young now. It's completely insane to me that anyone opposed to the PVV is not constantly campaigning on this issue. It is the richest generation stealing from the poorest. And this isn't something where you can point to poor elderly people, because those just live off AOW. This is something that the richer the old person (and there's a lot of rich as fuck baby boomers), the bigger the benefits of these plans. PVV, SP and 50Plus are a bunch of reverse robin hoods.

 

[ClosingADoor]

What I don't get is young people voting PVV or SP. The PVV, SP and 50Plus want to add a floor to the rekenrente for pensions, which in the long term will lead young people to receive a 30%(!) reduction in their pension payout according to calculations by the Central Planning Agency. This, in a system that is already more favourable to those older now than those young now. It's completely insane to me that anyone opposed to the PVV is not constantly campaigning on this issue. It is the richest generation stealing from the poorest. And this isn't something where you can point to poor elderly people, because those just live off AOW. This is something that the richer the old person (and there's a lot of rich as fuck baby boomers), the bigger the benefits of these plans. PVV, SP and 50Plus are a bunch of reverse robin hoods.

The narrative from these parties that the 50+ crowd is somehow poor is one of the most disgusting ones and so far removed from reality. And I feel nobody really calls them out on it for fear of losing votes from that group also, since older people tend to show up for elections more.

 

[RSP]

Stemwijzer and Kieswijzer are both pointing to a VVD vote for me. I think their standing on the environment is outdated, but I think I've locked down my vote.

Now lets see how the debate goes.

 

[Weckum]

Have voted for D66 every time I could since I turned 18 (Except for locally) and will do that now again. Every time I see something about D66 in the newspaper for the last year I have agreed with their statement. Actually think GL is a very enticing vote as well, but D66 being a bit more mid pulls me towards them.

I'm from Limburg and a lot of people around me are very PVV oriented or close-minded. It really sucks though to know that there's so much close-minded around you. At the same time I also don't want to start the discussion with them because I don't want to have people think badly of me. Plus I suck at discussing stuff so that doesn't help either. The only time I got into a discussion so far was a few weeks ago when some people were talking about AOW and how they'd be "working at 80 if things go on like this". So I told them that's a ridiculous statement and that increase of AOW is needed for everyone, the people who will retire and people that will be supporting the people retired. That we need it because "vergrijzing". Atleast this is what i read about it so I'm not sure if it's 100% true, but I've thought about it and it sounds really logical to me. I even suggested it might go down again when the "vergrijzing" decreases which I shouldn't have because it'll never happen.

So yeah it's hard living around here knowing a lot of people vote PVV. Time to look up what some parties stand for so I can maybe even persuade someone. But at the same time I don't want to be "that guy". Honestly I just want to yell at PVV voters to think, but that makes me just as bad as them

Limburg checking in and I feel your pain. Always been a D66 dude, probably gonna be GL this time.

 

[Farmboy]

Have voted for D66 every time I could since I turned 18 (Except for locally) and will do that now again. Every time I see something about D66 in the newspaper for the last year I have agreed with their statement. Actually think GL is a very enticing vote as well, but D66 being a bit more mid pulls me towards them.

Always saddens me a bit that "D66 or GroenLinks" voters such as yourself never give the PvdA a second look, since it's right in the middle of those two parties (which I both like, as well).

I mean, I get it: as a 'brand', the PvdA does not have it going on. Their people are often the opposite of charismatic. But in addition to being on the right side of the issues (in the opinion of D66-or-GL voters, certainly), they've actually done a pretty good job running the country over the past decades. Something GL can't say (and D66 has been a part of some less than stellar administrations).

So it's a bit sad to see their actual executive experience hurt them politically. "PvdA: just maybe give them a chance because they mean well and work hard" isn't much of a slogan, but here we are.

 

[roytheone]

http://nos.nl/artikel/2157614-strategische-stemmers-overwegen-vvd-stem-om-pvv-te-dwarsbomen.html

"Geen enkele grote politieke partij roept onder kiezers zo veel weerstand op als de PVV", zegt politicoloog Philip van Praag, die het onderzoek leidde, in de krant. "Vraag mensen op een schaal van 1 tot 100 aan te geven hoe groot de kans is dat ze op een partij zullen stemmen en 54 procent geeft de PVV een 1. Nooit of te nimmer krijgt deze partij mijn stem, zeggen kiezers daarmee."

Translation: a survey asked people how big the chance is that they will vote on a party, and 54 % of the responses gave the PVV a 1, meaning they will never ever vote for them. This gives me some hope for our little country!

 

[Aiii]

Glad to see at least the majority of people are still somewhat sane.

Unfortunately, the margin is way too low.

 

[roytheone]

Glad to see at least the majority of people are still somewhat sane.

Unfortunately, the margin is way too low.

Well, that percentage are people that give him a 1. It could be that a big part of the rest give him something like a 10 out of 100, which still means they will not vote on him.

 

[Cabaratier]

Always saddens me a bit that "D66 or GroenLinks" voters such as yourself never give the PvdA a second look, since it's right in the middle of those two parties (which I both like, as well).

I mean, I get it: as a 'brand', the PvdA does not have it going on. Their people are often the opposite of charismatic. But in addition to being on the right side of the issues (in the opinion of D66-or-GL voters, certainly), they've actually done a pretty good job running the country over the past decades. Something GL can't say (and D66 has been a part of some less than stellar administrations).

So it's a bit sad to see their actual executive experience hurt them politically. "PvdA: just maybe give them a chance because they mean well and work hard" isn't much of a slogan, but here we are.

The backlash against PvdA is tragic and indeed (mostly) undeserved, although somewhat to be expected after ruling with centre-right conservatives. I agree with your point that the PvdA has proven to be able to deliver quality cabinet members, but they did just fuck up (imo) by voting for the new investigative powers law. Honestly, a merger between D66, PvdA and Groenlinks would probably create a party with great ideas and experience in government (but still without 50% of the vote). I honestly (knowing nothing about the inner party workings, admittedly) could see it happening in a few years if Pechtold were to step back and Asscher suffer a big electoral defeat.

 

[7threst]

PvdA gets trashed constantly which is somewhat undeserved seeing they are more than capable of delivering capable politicians. It's just that they seem so out of touch with the times and the issues in society today. I mean, it's only a feeling I have, but whenever I see Samson or Asscher speak in public, the way they present themselves feels more like attempts at coming across as relevant towards everybody who listens, more than actually being engaged with whatever issue it is they are talking about.

 

[Caayn]

So, DENK uses internet trolls to push their campaign. Not surprising, but interesting tactic: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/02/10/nep-aanhang-online-actief-voor-denk-6642349-a1545568. Hope they get called out for it and it loses them some votes.

Why does it surprise me more that we haven't seen this happening before than the actual act itself.

 

[7threst]

Why does it surprise me more that we haven't seen this happening before than the actual act itself.

It would surprise me if this isn't already happening all over. Of course DENK deserves to be called out on this, but I don't believe at all they are the only ones doing this.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Why does it surprise me more that we haven't seen this happening before than the actual act itself.

It would surprise me if this isn't already happening all over. Of course DENK deserves to be called out on this, but I don't believe at all they are the only ones doing this.

I'd be very surprised if any of the established parties (CDA, VVD, PvdA, D66, etc) are doing it. Maybe it happens, but coordinated from the very top? Doubt it. This is the number 2 on their list directly asking his people to use troll accounts against a specific competing politician.

 

[7threst]

I'd be very surprised if any of the established parties (CDA, VVD, PvdA, D66, etc) are doing it. Maybe it happens, but coordinated from the very top? Doubt it. This is the number 2 on their list directly asking his people to use troll accounts against a specific competing politician.

Yeah, I don't think any of the established parties are actively doing this, but when most of the new parties started out as websites or any other form of online presence before transforming into a physical party, there is a certain awareness among those parties on the power of social media and mobilising people thru online campaigns. Not that I am saying GeenPeil and other new parties are actually doing this, but I would not be surprised if they did.

 

[Farmboy]

The backlash against PvdA is tragic and indeed (mostly) undeserved, although somewhat to be expected after ruling with centre-right conservatives. I agree with your point that the PvdA has proven to be able to deliver quality cabinet members, but they did just fuck up (imo) by voting for the new investigative powers law. Honestly, a merger between D66, PvdA and Groenlinks would probably create a party with great ideas and experience in government (but still without 50% of the vote). I honestly (knowing nothing about the inner party workings, admittedly) could see it happening in a few years if Pechtold were to step back and Asscher suffer a big electoral defeat.

PvdA gets trashed constantly which is somewhat undeserved seeing they are more than capable of delivering capable politicians. It's just that they seem so out of touch with the times and the issues in society today. I mean, it's only a feeling I have, but whenever I see Samson or Asscher speak in public, the way they present themselves feels more like attempts at coming across as relevant towards everybody who listens, more than actually being engaged with whatever issue it is they are talking about.

Happy to see some agreement here. I agree that Samson and Asscher (the former more than the latter) are poor communicators who seem overly calculating. But as someone who knows people in their inner circle, I can confirm that they're actually very engaged with the issues. Improving lives is Asschers top priority.

The PvdA is basically a party of Hillary Clintons: not charasmatic, not liked, distrusted because of their willingness to compromise, but actually right most of the time and pretty good at governing (I'll agree that this last administration hasn't been their finest hour, but it's neither as bad as PVV/SP say it is nor as bad as it would have been without them).

 

[Burnburn]

Always saddens me a bit that "D66 or GroenLinks" voters such as yourself never give the PvdA a second look, since it's right in the middle of those two parties (which I both like, as well).

I mean, I get it: as a 'brand', the PvdA does not have it going on. Their people are often the opposite of charismatic. But in addition to being on the right side of the issues (in the opinion of D66-or-GL voters, certainly), they've actually done a pretty good job running the country over the past decades. Something GL can't say (and D66 has been a part of some less than stellar administrations).

So it's a bit sad to see their actual executive experience hurt them politically. "PvdA: just maybe give them a chance because they mean well and work hard" isn't much of a slogan, but here we are.

I have to admit that voting PvdA has never popped up into my mind for some reason. Because of that I've never really read up about what they stand for etc. So you could call it ignorance on my part hehe. Honestly my vote could go to D66, GL or PvdA and I'd be content with it. But D66 resonates better with me because of their optimistic views.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Nah, the PvdA has gone 'too broad' in a way, where the divide between higher and lower educations was going to bite them in the ass anyway. "Dit land kan zoveel beter" was Wouter Bos's exercise in getting a record of most use of the word "samenleving" in a book. I felt sad reading that (I actually own it), because he meant well, but that concept of society gets in the way of clear thinking.
I fully appreciate that they're trying to hold on to the idea of a worker's party, but the 'new issues', as sociologists called them already by in 2006, are firmly split on education. Unfortunately the same pattern is playing out everywhere, it seems.

Which is slightly odd, because economically speaking there is zero similarity between the UK / US deregulated systems and the social democratic ones like in the Netherlands. Why would someone believe that they're owed something when economically speaking everyone makes roughly the same wage anyway ( = nivellering)? That split is entirely on the cultural axis, with the economic axis seeming to disappear. Maybe class really is dead (or never lived), or transformed into something much less predictable. Because while European education is much (much) more formidable then the US system, the reality is that higher education is a 30% of the population game. So getting elected means finding some common values or just aiming at the 70% lower educated, which is not that difficult when they are made to feel rewarded for ignorance (see Brexit and US election...).

We cannot ignore that the only real common factor between these nations is US-dominated media system, and that any feelings of resentment may be themselves a reflection of that, even if the cultural patterns play mildly differently from nation to nation.

 

[CrunchyB]

Updated the OP with the latest poll, made some other minor tweaks.

The backlash against PvdA is tragic and indeed (mostly) undeserved, although somewhat to be expected after ruling with centre-right conservatives.

They had more than their fair share of ruling the Netherlands these last 20 years and in many people's opinion they mostly enabled the neoliberal/conservative agenda's of the VVD and CDA. I voted PvdA in the past (I even voted for Melkert!) but maybe it's a good thing if they let other left-wing parties enjoy the limelight for a bit. Maybe GL or SP will be able to push things to the left some more and if they fail in a spectacular fashion, this will only make the PvdA look better.