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[oti]

I bet you can guess the responses.

 

[Alx]

There's definitevely something wrong in current mentalities if the first thing we're discussing about a prime minister is his gender, his skin colour and his academic history.
Equality and balance must be observed in numbers and not on an isolated sample. It will be interesting to see if such balance is seen in the candidates for the Législatives, but there's no reason to apply prejudice one way or another against the prime minister.

 

[Mael]

There's definitevely something wrong in current mentalities if the first thing we're discussing about a prime minister is his gender, his skin colour and his academic history.
Equality and balance must be observed in numbers and not on an isolated sample. It will be interesting to see if such balance is seen in the candidates for the Législatives, but there's no reason to apply prejudice one way or another against the prime minister.

Exactly, the last thing anyone want is another Edith Cresson.

 

[G.O.O.]

Actually I disagree. It's a shame that Edith Cresson is still our only female prime minister, and Macron has competent women surrounding him. I understand why he picked Philippe but we shouldn't still have the "competence before gender" argument in 2017. It's not like we had a tradition of competent male prime ministers, it's just that as males, we think they don't have anything to prove.

I'm still waiting to see what kind of PM Philippe will be, and I think he can do some good, but... missed opportunity, that's all.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

He's probably being replaced next month anyway after the legislative elections.

 

[Mael]

Actually I disagree. It's a shame that Edith Cresson is still our only female prime minister, and Macron has competent women surrounding him. I understand why he picked Philippe but we shouldn't still have the "competence before gender" argument in 2017. It's not like we had a tradition of competent male prime ministers, it's just that as males, we think they don't have anything to prove.

I'm still waiting to see what kind of PM Philippe will be, and I think he can do some good, but... missed opportunity, that's all.

Actually :

He's probably being replaced next month anyway after the legislative elections.

the thing is it's probably better if the the PM is good enough for everyone regardless of who wins next month (because we damn well know that the left ain't winning that one).
We probably want to avoid one of the 2 scenarii :
- Woman but oosted after losing the legislative making it one of the shortest PM of the Vth
- Woman but fucking bad like Segolène Royal bad
We'll have a clearer picture where the gov stand when we have the full list of the ministers.

 

[G.O.O.]

He's probably being replaced next month anyway after the legislative elections.

iirc Macron said he'd keep his PM after the législatives. But we'll see.

 

[Mael]

iirc Macron said he'd keep his PM after the législatives. But we'll see.

He may not have a choice, if the parliament wants the government out, the only recourse he would have is to dissolve the Assembly.

 

[danthefan]

Is Le Pen likely to run again in the next election, I assume so?

Don't fuck this up Macron.

 

[Mael]

Is Le Pen likely to run again in the next election, I assume so?

Don't fuck this up Macron.

I was going to say absolutely not but then again I was sure we finally got rid of Sarkozy and he tried to run again!
LePen didn't fail in the 1st round because of how fucking bad the regular Right stumbled with Fillon.
Lepen's party is total shambles and reforming itself, it's going to change but it's possible.
As a rule: do not underestimate the stupidity of the French electorate.

 

[Coffinhal]

According to the Constitution, it is an administrative position.

Care to elaborate ?

Nope.

Le Premier ministre dirige l'action du Gouvernement.

Le Gouvernement détermine et conduit la politique de la Nation.

Il dispose de l'administration et de la force armée.

Il est responsable devant le Parlement dans les conditions et suivant les procédures prévues aux articles 49 et 50.

The underlined parts show you the role of the government and therefore the role of the PM. He has the administration under his command through the government but that doesn't mean that he is in an adminsitrative position. The secretaire général de l'Elysée or the secretaire général du gouvernement are administrative positions for instance.

There's definitevely something wrong in current mentalities if the first thing we're discussing about a prime minister is his gender, his skin colour and his academic history.
Equality and balance must be observed in numbers and not on an isolated sample. It will be interesting to see if such balance is seen in the candidates for the Législatives, but there's no reason to apply prejudice one way or another against the prime minister.

When he puts the renewal* at the very core of his agenda this is an even more important matter than usual. The only renewal there is that he is a bit younger than other
*for instance he's the one that said multiple times he'd want a woman at Matignon (even tough that wasn't his first criteria), that he was a feminist in his own very heart etc, but once again the key roles at the Elysee are all held by men.

For the government it isn't in the law but he can't really go backward after what Hollande did
For the législatives it's easier : it's the fucking law since 2000 (!). Your party lose a lot of money if you don't have gender equality. We'll see if the people elected are 50/50% too because it can be easy to put women in districts that you will likely lose.
But key positions in ministers teams, nominations etc need to have gender equality too (and other diversity criterias). That's really the minimum if you want renewal. There are plenty of women available for this jobs - and there were plenty for PM too.

And we talked about what he stood for too : he doesn't seem to fit Macron's agenda on some important issues.

He may not have a choice, if the parliament wants the government out, the only recourse he would have is to dissolve the Assembly.

Before that he will make a déclaration de politique générale and will likely cast a vote de confiance (art.49-1) to confirm that he has a majority. He doesn't have to do that but since Rocard in '88 every new PM did that, he'll likely do it.

"Renewal" doesn't mean changing for the sake of changing. And the important part here isn't the age of his minister, no more than his gender or skin colour, but the fact that he was identified as right wing politician. Only a few days ago everybody blamed Macron for only gathering former PS politicians ; getting over the old left/right scission is the most important part of the renewal.
As for the "feminist" aspect, like I said equality is observed in large numbers, not in a single person (which could be used as a symbol at best, but symbols can also be smoke screens).

You're just quoting what he wants to show here but that's not the reality. He made a few speeches about the "renewal of the élite". If it's just getting centrists to be in the same party/majority, I don't see how it is a renewal ?
Only right-wing politicians from UMP and Modem said he appointed mostly former PS politicians for strategic reasons.
As for the "feminist" aspect, you always forget to mention who he appointed at the Elysée. It's four or five peop..men (+the PM).

 

[Alx]

When he puts the renewal* at the very core of his agenda this is an even more important matter than usual. The only renewal there is that he is a bit younger than other

"Renewal" doesn't mean changing for the sake of changing. And the important part here isn't the age of his minister, no more than his gender or skin colour, but the fact that he was identified as right wing politician. Only a few days ago everybody blamed Macron for only gathering former PS politicians ; getting over the old left/right scission is the most important part of the renewal.
As for the "feminist" aspect, like I said equality is observed in large numbers, not in a single person (which could be used as a symbol at best, but symbols can also be smoke screens).

 

[Oreiller]

The underlined parts show you the role of the government and therefore the role of the PM. He has the administration under his command through the government but that doesn't mean that he is in an adminsitrative position. The secretaire général de l'Elysée or the secretaire général du gouvernement are administrative positions for instance.

The PM is the formal and effective head of the administration. He has lots of administrative competences and responsabilities. He is nominated by a political decision and has political responsabilites but it still is an administrative position, both in theory and in practice. Delegating his administrative responsabilities to his secrétariat général does not strip his position of its administrative attributes.

 

[Coffinhal]

The PM is the formal and effective head of the administration. He has lots of administrative competences and responsabilities. He is nominated by a political decision and has political responsabilites but it still is an administrative position, both in theory and in practice. Delegating his administrative responsabilities to his secrétariat général does not strip his position of its administrative attributes.

To be fair in this sense it's of course* both but you need to rank them and the first one is a political one. It's the first thing that the Constitution states and in practice his main job is political : he carries public policies with the help of his ministers to the Parliament and then shapes the way they'll be implemented - but the real work (technical and legal détails) is done by the administrative directors of the ministers and the secrétariat général / his cabinet (who have a true administrative position)
*you need the tools of the machine to run it of course

So my point still stands : you don't have to be a former ENA student to be PM (and the ENA is not the only way to know the State mechanism work btw) and you don't have to know every detail to carry that political mission. Civil servants are here to help the people chosen by our democratic system (in this case the PR and the AN).

 

[Ether_Snake]

This choice was made to try and get a majority soon. Mcron could have found someone as qualified or moreso, but he needs a majority to have an easier time enacting his policies.

 

[Kurtofan]

Going to the Louvre on Friday evening, I'm over 26 so have to buy a ticket.
How complicated it is to do so online? Do I have to specify the date?

 

[Ghostandgoblin]

Going to the Louvre on Friday evening, I'm over 26 so have to buy a ticket.
How complicated it is to do so online? Do I have to specify the date?

I love your vision of the french political actuality

And just look here :
https://www.ticketlouvre.fr/louvre/b2c/index.cfm/home

 

[HaloRose]

So hows the polls doing in these election?

 

[Mael]

Just checked twitter,
dear God. Coffinhal be less obvious, please.

So hows the polls doing in these election?

For the latest elections they were pretty much spot on.
They accurately predicted trends and a good use of them could actually predict the results.
For the ones coming in the next election, it's harder to predict they're highly regional so you probably can't find them for all the deputés.
Historically the media doesn't really rely on poll and more on trending to give a vague picture of what's coming.

So my point still stands : you don't have to be a former ENA student to be PM (and the ENA is not the only way to know the State mechanism work btw) and you don't have to know every detail to carry that political mission. Civil servants are here to help the people chosen by our democratic system (in this case the PR and the AN).

No but it's better.
In the same way that you don't need to have a degree of constitutional law to make laws, laws made by people who know the constitution are generally better written.
Or why Trump's executive orders are shite that are taken down by the supreme court (there's a similar mechanism in France so that still applies).

 

[HaloRose]

Just checked twitter,
dear God. Coffinhal be less obvious, please.


For the latest elections they were pretty much spot on.
They accurately predicted trends and a good use of them could actually predict the results.
For the ones coming in the next election, it's harder to predict they're highly regional so you probably can't find them for all the deputés.
Historically the media doesn't really rely on poll and more on trending to give a vague picture of what's coming.

How many seats you think macron party get do u think he will get majority

 

[Mael]

How many seats you think macron party get do u think he will get majority

We have a saying in France

Si tu veux savoir comment poser la moquette, demande à un centriste

If you want to know how to put a carpet, ask a guy from the center.

What Macron did is unprecedented in the Vth, without looking too much I doubt he's going to be anywhere close to a majority.
What I view happening is his party has enough deputés to enact policy when allied with either the Left or the Right.
Depending on what piece of legislation we may see shifting alliances with what's left of PS and LR.
That's my ideal scenario, don't bet on that though.
People like consistency and I don't think people will vote for deputés who will block a freshly elected president en masse.
Then again someone said :

As a rule: do not underestimate the stupidity of the French electorate.

from a more recent article :
http://www.ouest-france.fr/election...-intentions-de-votes-selon-un-sondage-4986304

They could actually get more than 29% on the 1st round for the deputés.
FN being at 20% show that they're still slipping.
En Marche could have a majority on their own and I mean something like around 280 seats.
but again these types of polls mean nothing in a local election with 2 rounds.

And woah they're going all in with bs polls that say basically nothing
http://www.lci.fr/elections/sondage...rancais-veulent-une-cohabitation-2051184.html

 

[Coffinhal]

Merkel agreed with Macron on changing the UE treaties "if that makes sense". I thought it was impossible to get 27 countries to change them

Spoiler

at least when it was Mélenchon haha

No but it's better.
In the same way that you don't need to have a degree of constitutional law to make laws, laws made by people who know the constitution are generally better written.
Or why Trump's executive orders are shite that are taken down by the supreme court (there's a similar mechanism in France so that still applies).

There are plenty of people with lots of degrees that can help a PM or MPs to get the best law possible, especially on the legal angle, in every step of the process (before it goes to the Conseil des ministres with the Conseil d'Etat, when it goes through commissions in the Assemblée Nationales etc). You can't be a specialist of everything and a mandate isn't a job (as in a profession you learn to do),that's why the administration helps you and your advisers, among other things, help you going through the administrative machine.

About his majority, if he doesn't have the 289 "En Marche" MPs required to rule freely, he'll need to get as much MPs as necessary to get that majority and if the number of MPs missing is too big (30?50? idk) then he'll need to build an alliance similar to what happens in Germany with his platform that would likely change (to the right? to the left?) (maybe he wouldn't need to change his PM if he shifts to the right with right-wing MPs that would go away from UMP)

I don't see him going with no majority, trying to get a majority for each law (especially budget laws), using the 49.3 if he doesn't have one (especially on budget laws), and most importantly just after the législatives I don't see Edouard Phillipe not doing a déclaration de politique générale with a vote de confiance to state that yes, he has a majority

But we're very far from that and nobody can say what will happen after 1 month of Macron's presidency and 1 month of campaign.

 

[Mael]

Merkel agreed with Macron on changing the UE treaties "if that makes sense". I thought it was impossible to get 27 countries to change them

Spoiler

at least when it was Mélenchon haha

Let's wait until we see what treaties they're talking about.
Mélenchon certainly wouldn't have had the same answer to that question, same as LePen really.

There are plenty of people with lots of degrees that can help a PM or MPs to get the best law possible, especially on the legal angle, in every step of the process (before it goes to the Conseil des ministres with the Conseil d'Etat, when it goes through commissions in the Assemblée Nationales etc). You can't be a specialist of everything and a mandate isn't a job (as in a profession you learn to do),that's why the administration helps you and your advisers, among other things, help you going through the administrative machine.

Pfft Bullshit.
They had all that in 2012 and still failed miserably.
Advisers can help but if you're intent on pushing blatant anticonstitutional BS your adviser won't save you.

About his majority, if he doesn't have the 289 "En Marche" MPs required to rule freely, he'll need to get as much MPs as necessary to get that majority and if the number of MPs missing is too big (30?50? idk) then he'll need to build an alliance similar to what happens in Germany with his platform that would likely change (to the right? to the left?) (maybe he wouldn't need to change his PM if he shifts to the right with right-wing MPs that would go away from UMP)

I don't see him going with no majority, trying to get a majority for each law (especially budget laws), using the 49.3 if he doesn't have one (especially on budget laws), and most importantly just after the législatives I don't see Edouard Phillipe not doing a déclaration de politique générale with a vote de confiance to state that yes, he has a majority

But we're very far from that and nobody can say what will happen after 1 month of Macron's presidency and 1 month of campaign.

We'll see.
A vote of confidence means nothing before the next election. Most of PS's seat may shift on the Right and EP's policies may be less popular with a LR majority than with the current PS one.
I can see that happening after the election and him getting a vote based on whatever the hell they want to do.
I don't really see him out of the job that quickly though.

 

[Coffinhal]

Pfft Bullshit.
They had all that in 2012 and still failed miserably.
Advisers can help but if you're intent on pushing blatant anticonstitutional BS your adviser won't save you.

Whether you listen or not to legal advisers, the Conseil d'Etat, to other administrative offices etc., is not related to whether you did the ENA/are a public law expert or not. It's just a political decision of the person in charge with full knowledge of the legal risks.

Spoiler

(and sometimes there are mistakes too, laws that became too complex in the process, a lack of time to double-check or going back to the Parliament...but that has nothing to do with the skills of a PM, it's much more complex)

We'll see.
A vote of confidence means nothing before the next election. Most of PS's seat may shift on the Right and EP's policies may be less popular with a LR majority than with the current PS one.
I can see that happening after the election and him getting a vote based on whatever the hell they want to do.
I don't really see him out of the job that quickly though.

Of course it'll be after the election since the Parliament is closed haha. I didn't write it because I thought it was obvious.

 

[Mael]

Whether you listen or not to legal advisers, the Conseil d'Etat, to other administrative offices etc., is not related to whether you did the ENA/are a public law expert or not. It's just a political decision of the person in charge with full knowledge of the legal risks.

Spoiler

(and sometimes there are mistakes too, laws that became too complex in the process, a lack of time to double-check or going back to the Parliament...but that has nothing to do with the skills of a PM, it's much more complex)

There is taxation being complicated and being blatantly stupid about it.
And looking at the PMs since 81, the worst PMs were the ones who didn't do ENA (special mention to Fabius, even a scandal where people ain't enough to kill his career).
Putting someone who did this school as PM isn't the mark of the worst the Republic has to offer as you're implying.

Spoiler

And having someone who's playing politics for the last 30 years spit his bile about the old politic coming back is all kinds of hilarious.

Of course it'll be after the election since the Parliament is closed haha. I didn't write it because I thought it was obvious.

Then there is literally nothing to say about the matter, we do not know the composition of the Parliament then.
If it's in full FN mode for some reason I don't see the PM acting the same way he would in a more conservative Assembly.

 

[Coffinhal]

There is taxation being complicated and being blatantly stupid about it.
And looking at the PMs since 81, the worst PMs were the ones who didn't do ENA (special mention to Fabius, even a scandal where people ain't enough to kill his career).
Putting someone who did this school as PM isn't the mark of the worst the Republic has to offer as you're implying.

Spoiler

And having someone who's playing politics for the last 30 years spit his bile about the old politic coming back is all kinds of hilarious.

Yes I know what you meant by 2012
Well it's your opinion and I don't wont to have a debate on every PM since 81 and their responsability hahaha
I didn't imply that.

Spoiler

I've got a friend who worked in Macron's national campaign and that was his #1 argument against Mélenchon haha. I always answered that he did quit the old word in '08 when leaving the PS and founding his party and he's the only one with a platform that wants to completely change our regime, which is the real old world (because institutions matter more than (wo)men)

Then there is literally nothing to say about the matter, we do not know the composition of the Parliament then.
If it's in full FN mode for some reason I don't see the PM acting the same way he would in a more conservative Assembly.

I was just making an hypothesis on what could happen whether he gets a full majority or not, and in that hypothesis I see the PR/PM wanting to have a majority before starting to make laws, with the vote of confidence they would likely cast. That's mainly why shifting alliances (your hypothesis) seem unlikely to me : they want to have a true legitimaty and, well, confidence.

 

[Tyaren]

I bet you can guess the responses.

It's a tradition by now that the French and German heads of states visit the other immediately after they are sworn in.

 

[Kurtofan]

I love your vision of the french political actuality

And just look here :
https://www.ticketlouvre.fr/louvre/b2c/index.cfm/home

well

 

[UnluckyKate]

so last year for my parents 30th wedding anniversary, we had Edouard Philippe at home.

I have pictures of our now Prime Minister in my living room lol

 

[Coffinhal]

About the "renewal" : Mediapart studied the sociological profiles of the En Marche civil society" candidates for the législatives. They represent 52% of the candidates as of today.

https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/fr...republique-des-gens-qui-vont-bien?onglet=full

La « société civile » de LREM, parti présidentiel qui se veut « central » dans la vie politique, est surtout constituée de chefs d'entreprise, médecins, avocats, cadres du privé ou collaborateurs d'élus. On n'y trouve a priori aucun ouvrier, et seulement une toute petite poignée d'employés. La « République en marche » est celle des CSP+, des cadres dynamiques, des notables locaux. Un monde de gens qui vont plutôt bien, voire très bien, à l'image du noyau des électeurs d'Emmanuel Macron. (...)

La liste compte d'abord un nombre considérable de chefs d'entreprise, PDG, créateurs de start-up, patrons de TPE/PME. Au total, d'après nos calculs, c'est de loin le plus gros contingent. Ils sont au moins une soixantaine, soit un peu moins d'un tiers des candidats estampillés « société civile ». (...) On décompte une quinzaine de start-upper (...) Plusieurs dirigeants du privé figurent aussi dans la liste (...) On dénombre aussi une soixantaine de cadres du privé, chargés de communication, chefs de projet, responsables des ressources humaines, commerciaux, etc. Ainsi qu'une dizaine de consultants en tout genre (stratégie, management, etc.), des experts en communication et plusieurs ”coachs" (...)

(À vrai dire, le CV des aspirants députés n'est pas très étonnant. Emmanuel Macron a mené campagne sur un espace politique « central », social-libéral, centriste et de droite modérée. L'ancien ministre de l'économie a fait des start-up un modèle. Il a promis de « libérer les énergies », de supprimer des charges pour les entreprises, et les « normes inutiles ». Il entend assouplir le code du travail, a promis la suppression du RSI pour les indépendants mais aussi un droit au chômage étendu au-delà des seuls salariés.

Autres métiers représentés : une trentaine de professeurs, enseignants et chercheurs, ainsi qu'une petite dizaine de responsables associatifs et d'ingénieurs. (...)

Autres contingents fournis, ceux des médecins et des avocats, corporations qui fournissent traditionnellement nombre de parlementaires. « Ils ont du temps disponible, des moyens, et en particulier de quoi avancer les frais de campagne », explique Jonathan Chibois, anthropologue spécialiste du Parlement. On dénombre une petite vingtaine de médecins (et cinq infirmiers) et autant d'avocats. (...)

Autrement dit, ce sont autant de petits managers locaux, connus sur leur territoire, disposant de temps, qui ont été choisis pour affronter les candidats PS, LR et du Front national. (...)


Revers de la médaille, le casting fait une très faible place aux actifs ouvriers et aux employés. Ils représentent 50 % de la population active, mais sont quasiment absents de la liste LREM. Nous n'avons ainsi repéré aucun actif ouvrier dans cette liste. Et à notre connaissance, très peu d'employés (...)

« Ces candidatures sont à l'image du monde d'Emmanuel Macron, dit l'anthropologue Jonathan Chibois. Il y a bien un renouvellement, au sens où les candidats n'ont pas fait de politique auparavant, mais ce n'est pas un renouvellement en termes de classes sociales. (...)

La « société civile » version LREM, ce sont enfin de nombreux collaborateurs, ou anciens collaborateurs, d'élus. (...) Autre cas de figure, ces candidats qui ont gravité entre entreprise et politique»

France 5 did a very simple chart

Interesting to see where the renewal begins and stops. The National Assembly won't be much more representative of our country.

 

[Alx]

I don't think the point was to have an assembly that is statistically representative of the population. I certainly don't think we should have 50% of our deputees among workers and employees just because that's their proportion in the population.
I suppose the reason behind getting more "civilians" in the parliament is to have a larger diversity in points of views and ways of thinking, and also avoiding parliements full of professional politicians who are out of touch with the real world ; but it's still a position that requires more education/ higher profiles than average.

 

[Sinsem]

I don't think the point was to have an assembly that is statistically representative of the population. I certainly don't think we should have 50% of our deputees among workers and employees just because that's their proportion in the population

Without going that far, not having a single one worker is still evidence of a problem.

 

[Coffinhal]

I don't think the point was to have an assembly that is statistically representative of the population. I certainly don't think we should have 50% of our deputees among workers and employees just because that's their proportion in the population.
I suppose the reason behind getting more "civilians" in the parliament is to have a larger diversity in points of views and ways of thinking, and also avoiding parliements full of professional politicians who are out of touch with the real world ; but it's still a position that requires more education/ higher profiles than average.

You have every right to believe that we should only have the best profiles in our National Assembly, those with the best degrees, who succeeded in the business life, have real estate, property etc. But it's a mix because a technocracy and an aristocracy and certainly doesn't allow "a larger diversity in points of views and ways of thinking" : it's quite the opposite when you have four times more "high profiles with high incomes and high degrees" than there are in the actual population - and do you really believe that they are not out of touch with the 50% employees and manual workers ? (those who don't vote or vote for Le Pen because, guess what, they don't fill like they have someone that speaks for them and their concerns)

There's an excellent book by David van Reybrouck about this very issue of élections that are a way to renew a form or artistocracy. You should check it out, you'll understand that being an elected representative isn't a privilege of those who have succeeded in life - and as Bourdieu showed it is mostly social inheritance, and that we have tools to have a real democratic electoral system where the real people can make laws. This really is the bottom of our democratic crisis and we can realise that it is a large crisis when you read that it's no problem if we almost have no one that represents 50% of the population. 50%! (and that's just one number among others)

 

[Alx]

and do you really believe that they are not out of touch with the 50% employees and manual workers ? (those who don't vote or vote for Le Pen because, guess what, they don't fill like they have someone that speaks for them and their concerns)

Well some of them are certainly less out of touch with them, since they're more likely to know some of them, work with them etc. It's more about breaking the "ivory tower" of old politicians than having a full sample of the population among the elected représentatives.
That being said, I'm not saying there shouldn't be workers in the assembly. Just that it's not a big surprise that there aren't many of them. Just like it's not a surprise that you can more easily find some in far left parties than in centrist ones.

 

[Ghostandgoblin]

This really is the bottom of our democratic crisis and we can realise that it is a large crisis when you read that it's no problem if we almost have no one that represents 50% of the population. 50%! (and that's just one number among others)

I think the bottom of the crisis is when every people unhappy with the choices of the elected party is questioning every decision taken 1 day after entering the Elysée.

We can argue a lot about the fact that there is not a single basic worker for the assembly, that his prime minister is a mayor and not a brand new face, that his wife is old or whatever you want to talk about, but I want to focus on the ideas and the programs, not on statistics proving nothing on his impact.

It would have been the same with everyone, Melenchon, Fillon, etc.

 

[Fisico]

We can argue a lot about the fact that there is not a single basic worker for the assembly, that his prime minister is a mayor and not a brand new face, that his wife is old or whatever you want to talk about, but I want to focus on the ideas and the programs, not on statistics proving nothing on his impact.

It would have been the same with everyone, Melenchon, Fillon, etc.

The sociological profiles of every man and woman working actively in politics for En Marche is a, if not the, defining factor on what their ideas and programs will be

For Fillon it would've been the same clearly, for Melenchon I think we just need to check the legislatives candidates but it can only be more representative than what EM currently have.

Empty promise of renewal for communication/marketing purpose is nothing new though, Sarkozy was elected pretending to be vastly different from Chirac, Hollande was elected with "Le changement c'est maintenant", the new thing of the latest elecetion is that on top of pretending to "change" everything everyone was also doing so while pretending to be "anti system"

It's becoming laughable at this point.

 

[Coffinhal]

I think the bottom of the crisis is when every people unhappy with the choices of the elected party is questioning every decision taken 1 day after entering the Elysée.

We can argue a lot about the fact that there is not a single basic worker for the assembly, that his prime minister is a mayor and not a brand new face, that his wife is old or whatever you want to talk about, but I want to focus on the ideas and the programs, not on statistics proving nothing on his impact.

It would have been the same with everyone, Melenchon, Fillon, etc.

I'm very sorry to question our beloved King Macron-the-first and the disonnance between what he promised and what already has been decided - and these decisions matter, have a meaning, will have an impact on how policies are shaped, it's not just "statistics", especially since the renewal was at the core of his platform (!). If we can't discuss this I don't see the point of having this thread open.

We'll discuss the content of the laws when they'll be here. If you just want to stay happy, just read the press releases and watch BFMTV and do not read the controversial and independent reports (Mediapart, L'Observatorie du nucléaire). Actually I'm going to stay out of here, I'll spend time sharing news of public matter in other places.

By the way, I never talked about the age of his wife, please stop the alternative facts here.

 

[Ghostandgoblin]

The sociological profiles of every man and woman working actively in politics for En Marche is a, if not the, defining factor on what their ideas and programs will be

For Fillon it would've been the same clearly, for Melenchon I think we just need to check the legislatives candidates but it can only be more representative than what EM currently have.

Empty promise of renewal for communication/marketing purpose is nothing new though, Sarkozy was elected pretending to be vastly different from Chirac, Hollande was elected with "Le changement c'est maintenant", the new thing of the latest elecetion is that on top of pretending to "change" everything everyone was also doing so while pretending to be "anti system"

It's becoming laughable at this point.

We can talk about it but we can't draw the entire futur of the party from it. And I don't see a problem technically with someone not being a worker representing workers. Now, discussing the fact that the FN will potentially ride on that to gather some weak minds is another problem.

I'm very sorry to question our beloved King Macron-the-first and the disonnance between what he promised and what already has been decided - and these decisions matter, have a meaning, will have an impact on how policies are shaped, it's not just "statistics", especially since the renewal was at the core of his platform (!). If we can't discuss this I don't see the point of having this thread open.

We'll discuss the content of the laws when they'll be here. If you just want to stay happy, just read the press releases and watch BFMTV and do not read the controversial and independent reports (Mediapart, L'Observatorie du nucléaire). Actually I'm going to stay out of here, I'll spend time sharing news of public matter in other places.

By the way, I never talked about the age of his wife, please stop the alternative facts here.

First of all relax a bit, I never said I was 100% behind him and licking his feet. But thank you for associating me with the autocracy you are so pleased to denounce.

And yes, it's just statistic. Why are you focusing on the 0% worker and not on the 52% not actively in politic, the 50% women dispatched equally on the territory and not only in the sure to be lost places, the average youth of all the candidates (46 year old) and so on.

You can see what you want in those datas, twist them to tell you that it is a disgrace or see it the other way.

By the way, I never talked about the age of his wife, please stop the alternative facts here.

Wow, a Macron follower and now a Trump supporter, you are quick to jump on everything you think you see as an attack huh ? I never said you talked about the age of the wife, I just put it in a list of things we know but that for me are not relevant to the politics that will come. So chill a bit and stop barking.

 

[Mael]

Yes I know what you meant by 2012
Well it's your opinion and I don't wont to have a debate on every PM since 81 and their responsability hahaha

Oh come on, it's history now and there's load to unpack too!
And we get to shit on Fabius and Raffarin for all the crap they're worth!

I didn't imply that.

Spoiler

I've got a friend who worked in Macron's national campaign and that was his #1 argument against Mélenchon haha. I always answered that he did quit the old word in '08 when leaving the PS and founding his party and he's the only one with a platform that wants to completely change our regime, which is the real old world (because institutions matter more than (wo)men)

I'd say change is more than just people. And there is a value in symbols.
While not exactly the best symbol, the new PM is actually a symbol for renewal.
He's not another guy in his 60's who was chosen because it was his turn or some crap like Fillon in 2007. Whatever marketing spin you can put in Mélenchon and LePen weren't exactly change in politics, one is the heir of our local nazi leader and the other is the Xavier Bertrand of the Left ("Now is the time to stop saying crap to French people or whatever, now we need to tell the truth, before we lied but not now!" every 2 years).
We'll see if he's that committed to 'his neither Left or Right', History ain't on his side though.

I was just making an hypothesis on what could happen whether he gets a full majority or not, and in that hypothesis I see the PR/PM wanting to have a majority before starting to make laws, with the vote of confidence they would likely cast. That's mainly why shifting alliances (your hypothesis) seem unlikely to me : they want to have a true legitimaty and, well, confidence.

I guess they'll try to cement that but if they get a vote of confidence to start with they can lose that confidence at any time too.
I don't expect shifting alliances on day2day but more after some elections and such.
Also they can avoid all that if they have a strong majority from getgo of course.

please stop the alternative facts here.

I would advise from refraining this kind of stuffs in the future. You're basically calling people willful liars over petty things.
It's annoying and basically diminish whatever meaning that expression has.
Now everytime someone hears alternative facts it's not going to be because someone is saying the sun is shining when it's a fucking snowstorm but because someone got pissy on the internet.

Empty promise of renewal for communication/marketing purpose is nothing new though,

I wouldn't have found a better description of Mélenchon's campaign, thanks!

 

[Kuldar]

Without going that far, not having a single one worker is still evidence of a problem.

Yes, one big problem for worker is that they can't be sure to find a job again five years later. Doctor or lawyer aren't more present because they are more educated, but mainly because they will have a job again after their mandate. When the PCF was a big political party, they helped wokers after their mandates so they didn't have to fear unemployment.

 

[Mael]

Yes, one big problem for worker is that they can't be sure to find a job again five years later. Doctor or lawyer aren't more present because they are more educated, but mainly because they will have a job again after their mandate. When the PCF was a big political party, they helped wokers after their mandates so they didn't have to fear unemployment.

Interestingly deputés voted 5 years ago to provide income for 5 years for a deputé who lost his mandate to help afterward, it's a shit law but still.

 

[Coffinhal]

Wow, a Macron follower and now a Trump supporter, you are quick to jump on everything you think you see as an attack huh ? I never said you talked about the age of the wife, I just put it in a list of things we know but that for me are not relevant to the politics that will come. So chill a bit and stop barking.

I'm not a dog, I don't "bark", thank you very much.

"(...) that his wife is old or whatever you want to talk about"
You did imply the age of his wife was relevant or as relevant as the social profile of his future MPs, his PM or his key advisers who all have political and/or administrative positions - but his wife doesn't. Anyway, you have every right to eat press releases that keep the numbers they like and say that independent media reports (that show that these numbers were twisted and show social bias) are the real twisted numbers and that the PR is just as good as the reports (that's basically every answer I get here every time I bring something controversial)

Spoiler

inb4 the usual BUT MELENCHON'S MARKETING WAS WORSE!

Yes, one big problem for worker is that they can't be sure to find a job again five years later. Doctor or lawyer aren't more present because they are more educated, but mainly because they will have a job again after their mandate. When the PCF was a big political party, they helped wokers after their mandates so they didn't have to fear unemployment.

That's where the political will comes : if you want to help people that have the fear of being unemployed after a 5-years mandate, then you can build tools that will solve that kind of problem. Financial incentives, reconversion, I don't know, but it's not like you can't tackle that kind of matter if you want to and make it a priority because democracy matters.

The issue with Macron (and his team) is that he says he wants "the full diversity of France" "an Assembly really representative of the French people" (I'm quoting Richard Ferrand, this morning on Inter) but there's no political will : they don't care. For them the diversity of the "civil society" is people that are a bit younger, that mainly are from manager/executive positions in the private business sector, and that will behave docilely.

That was pretty much what was said in the Mediapart report I already quoted :

Ces candidatures sont à l’image du monde d’Emmanuel Macron, dit l'anthropologue Jonathan Chibois. Il y a bien un renouvellement, au sens où les candidats n’ont pas fait de politique auparavant, mais ce n’est pas un renouvellement en termes de classes sociales.

 

[Alx]

That was pretty much what was said in the Mediapart report I already quoted :

What you're quoting doesn't say anything about being "docile" or "mostly for private business" (as a matter of fact the pie chart shows a slight majority of people from other categories). It's mostly a matter of being CSP+.

 

[Mael]

[/U]The issue with Macron (and his team) is that he says he wants "the full diversity of France" "an Assembly really representative of the French people" (I'm quoting Richard Ferrand, this morning on Inter) but there's no political will : they don't care. For them the diversity of the "civil society" is people that are a bit younger, that mainly are from manager/executive positions in the private business sector, and that will behave docilely.

And instead of limiting yourself to facts you once again delve deeply into speculation.
So because they weren't usual political actors they're mindless drones who will spout whatever BS fed to them by Matignon and L'Elysée?

 

[Ghostandgoblin]

I'm not a dog, I don't "bark", thank you very much.

Since you were saying I was an alt-right butt licking alternative fact fan I was guessing it was ok to call everybody what you want to call them. Thank you for clarifying.

You did imply the age of his wife was relevant or as relevant as the social profile of his future MPs, his PM or his key advisers who all have political and/or administrative positions - but his wife doesn't.

And I guess you don't get irony.

Anyway, you have every right to eat press releases that keep the numbers they like and say that independent media reports (that show that these numbers were twisted and show social bias) are the real twisted numbers and that the PR is just as good as the reports (that's basically every answer I get here every time I bring something controversial)

Once again you seem to don't understand what I'm writing : I'm not saying mediapart is wrong or twisting numbers, it's a fact that there is no basic worker in the 428 candidates. What I'm saying is that it's just a number, not the proof that the workers will not be represented equally at the assembly.
And again, numbers are numbers : you tell me there is a lack of workers, I see the 214 women. Equality from another point of view. Those are also fact for you information, but I guess since it wasn't written black on white on mediapart it is a twisted way of seeing the situation.

So you can talk about it for a long time, you won't know what the result is before real actions are undertaken. That's my point of view, classify it under alt-right propaganda if you want.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I love the justification from En marche representative about Marielle de Sarnez (which is an Euro deputy since 1999) being an EM candidate for the législative.

Apparently being an EU elected figure doesn't count towards the political renewal.

Elle ne concourt pas pour un mandat dont elle a déjà été élue, puisqu'elle n'a jamais été élue députée de sa vie. Elle n'a jamais occupé de mandat national », a tenté de justifier ce mardi matin Benjamin Griveaux, porte-parole d'EM

 

[Mael]

Don't know if it's been posted here before. Apparently, racism is still alive and well.
But then again I'm pretty sure it's going to be dismissed as a non-event or a 'fait divers'.

http://m.la1ere.francetvinfo.fr/gua...oir-elections-entre-eux-temoigne-474137.html#

I love the justification from En marche representative about Marielle de Sarnez (which is an Euro deputy since 1999) being an EM candidate for the législative.

Apparently being an EU elected figure doesn't count towards the political renewal.

Again, no one gives a shit about the EU parliament in France.
It's true for the Left, for the Right, for everyone.
No one gives a crap about it.
It's basically the place we exile people who have trouble in their current political life.

 

[Kuldar]

Again, no one gives a shit about the EU parliament in France.
It's true for the Left, for the Right, for everyone.
No one gives a crap about it.
It's basically the place we exile people who have trouble in their current political life.

And it's a shame, we have some really hard working EU deputies, but we only know the fucking impostors who spend more time in french tv show than at the parliament.

 

[Mael]

And it's a shame, we have some really hard working EU deputies, but we only know the fucking impostors who spend more time in french tv show than at the parliament.

As a rule of thumb, if you have a prominent politician be a EU depute he's doing a shit job and is hacking is way in more ways than one.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Again, no one gives a shit about the EU parliament in France.
It's true for the Left, for the Right, for everyone.
No one gives a crap about it.
It's basically the place we exile people who have trouble in their current political life.

That's not relevant, what's interesting is that it's quite clearly a political move to appease the Modem. Which shows that their "rules" can be bended if it's favorable for them.