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[cabot]

OK now you're just insulting everyone.

Splinter, get him.

What if I want to look at you on D2 and you were all 'Don't give a fuck mode' this day phase?

You can just pawn off your D1 behaviour as no fucks given and we're essentially back at square one with you, unless you expect a PR to out you on D2, putting themselves at risk.

 

[cabot]

Very few of these analyses work. People throw out words for the sake of throwing out words so there's, maybe, something to work with in the future, not because they're really ever sure of hitting scum. There are a few GAFia players who I know from experience are capable of pinpointing a scum day 1, but none of them are here, unfortunately.

And I'm not one them in any case.

This is not what I meant, it's unlikely we'll hit a scum day 1, but there's a difference in actively trying to hit a scum on day 1, and working from there after a flip as opposed to just 'It's D1, fuck it'.

Sure you can do that, it's a free country (Until THE BREXIT) but I have a problem with that mentality.


You'll have my vote for now, cherish it.

 

[Haly]

Can you not town/scum read 'Don't give a fuck mode'?

Whether it's coasting or hyperactivity, mechanics speculation or asking benign questions, filler posts or 5000 word essays, it's all evidence for the future, no?

Or do you only care about scum reads/town reads?

 

[cabot]

I'd read it as scum more than town, but it isn't definitive.

I care about willingness to engage with others be it through discussions, reads, thoughts, spontaneous questions. All these bring discussion forward. Discussion is the key weapon in this game.

 

[Haly]

But there's a difference in actively trying to hit a scum on day 1, and working from there after a flip as opposed to just 'It's D1, fuck it'.

Philosophically, yes, there's a difference. Practically, no, there isn't. Our guesses may as well be random as far as typical outcomes are concerned.

 

[Ty4on]

Can you not town/scum read 'Don't give a fuck mode'?

Whether it's coasting or hyperactivity, mechanics speculation or asking benign questions, filler posts or 5000 word essays, it's all evidence for the future, no?

Or do you only care about scum reads/town reads?

Good reads are much harder for scum to fake. When a couple of scums have died we can read how they were read.

Your posts are fairly easy for scum to make.

 

[cabot]

AbsolutBro

You've offered a strong view on the mass claim idea, which you're not for.

Anything else tickling your fancy? Do you want to be tickled? I will tickle you.


Any impressions from people so far, do you like to peek?

Are you a peeking Tom?

do you want to be a peeking Tom?

What's your favourite colour?

 

[*Splinter]

Lol i pressed post too soon, I had separated my list out into 'answered my questions, didnt answer my questions'

Oh well.


Lover, what do you make of Ty town reading Bear within about 5 minutes of game start?

Yeah it was trash. Trash enough to make him my top scum.

 

[*Splinter]

Also Cabot why ask me that? I'm the only one that already mentioned it.

I don't disagree that it's a bad idea from this point of view but it's still more interesting than what we'd be doing otherwise. I don't like D1 either because all anyone has are the barest of the bare minimum of hunches and we might as well be shooting in the dark. I'd rather have concrete information to work with, is all.

Which is why I also support the peeking strategy. Really anything but this "so who do you think is scum", "I dunno, who do you think is scum!?", "dunno!!".

This a reasonable explanation, I'll say I scumread Burb's response way more than your actual argument.

 

[Haly]

Good reads are much harder for scum to fake.

I can't even make good reads as town, at least on D1. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't work. I'm not going to keep trying to the point where I wind up faking reads as town.

I'm not the type of person who, when one approach consistently fails, continues to bash his head against the wall until it works.

 

[cabot]

Re: Why I think there's no cop -

This is mostly wishful thinking, I have no evidence of such I just think games without them or games with unusual cops are more interesting. In the absence of any confirming evidence I choose to assume there isn't one for now.

This is a great mentality to have, I think life would be better without just over half the country being big dumb dumbs and voting to kick themselves in the jaxxy. So in the absence of Article 50 being invoked, there is no Brexit


This is Brexit MAFIA, you've all been duped.

 

[*Splinter]

Philosophically, yes, there's a difference. Practically, no, there isn't. Our guesses may as well be random as far as typical outcomes are concerned.

You're right that it's essentially random. But if our votes "randomly" coalesce on a scum player, scum team will have to manoeuvre to change the course of the day. That's where D1 can be useful, and it 100% can't happen if too many people take the "fuck day 1" approach.

 

[cabot]

I asked you because the morning is our domain in Mafia games, I knew you'd be here and it was the biggest takeaway I had from reading over the game thread.

 

[*Splinter]

I can't even make good reads as town, at least on D1. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't work. I'm not going to keep trying to the point where I wind up faking reads as town.

I'm not the type of person who, when one approach consistently fails, continues to bash his head against the wall until it works.

and "good reads" are a myth. It's all about forcing scum into situations they don't want to be in.

 

[cabot]

Would you still town read Bear, Ty?

 

[Burbeting]

No Burb, no it doesn't. Why did you say this?

I meant that mass claiming all of our roles would have been nonsense, which I detailed in my earlier posts. Haly then said that he wanted us to just claim our Hero names, which while pointless to me, would still be less damning and damaging for the town than claiming actual roles. So it made "more sense" to me.

 

[*Splinter]

Alright, Ty's post is still the weirdest thing I've seen yet.

VOTE: Ty4on

Also wary of Burb for agreeing with things I wouldn't expect him to agree to (Haly's post, specifically). I guess I'd include Xam for a top 3, he's always sketchy but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for it.

Ouro seems fine so far. Cabot I've mostly agreed with. Verelios looked odd to me but in a way that reminds me of last game, I'll lean town on him for now.

 

[Ty4on]

Would you still town read Bear, Ty?

Yeah, but nothing has come to strengthen it so far. The peeking response was weird.

 

[Ty4on]

Alright, Ty's post is still the weirdest thing I've seen yet.

VOTE: Ty4on

I still don't get what is so weird about it.

 

[*Splinter]

I meant that mass claiming all of our roles would have been nonsense, which I detailed in my earlier posts. Haly then said that he wanted us to just claim our Hero names, which while pointless to me, would still be less damning and damaging for the town than claiming actual roles. So it made "more sense" to me.

Eehhhhhh if you say so. I'm not sure I can read it that way. As damaging as a role claim would be it's at least something we can work with, a name claim is 100% pointless.

 

[Burbeting]

Even after a night's sleep, I'm still actively against peeking. The only time I've seen it in action lead to disaster, so I'm really not convinced it will be worth it in the long run right now.

Another problem with the fake green checks is that the players would have to basically treat them as town-reads until real cop is revealed in some fashion. It would be weird if the player would later on vote on their "green check", which would give scum more help in deducing the possible real cop (obviously real cop could do this as well, though).

 

[Burbeting]

Eehhhhhh if you say so. I'm not sure I can read it that way. As damaging as a role claim would be it's at least something we can work with, a name claim is 100% pointless.

Role claim would still give scum complete list of town PR, so they could easily decide on their night actions with ease (possibly roleblock doctor or investigative powers if they have one, for example).

I didn't mean that name claim is something we should do, I agree it's pointless. But it still made more sense for Haly to ask for that than for role call.

 

[*Splinter]

I still don't get what is so weird about it.

I don't understand why you would townread anyone so easily. I'm not familiar with scum Burb, but I'm sure he's be more than capable of making the few posts he'd made in the thread up to that point.

I was also (I think it was the same post) reminded of your previous statements of struggling with interacting with teammates, made me wonder if that slightly forced read was due to you overcompensating for that.

 

[*Splinter]

Even after a night's sleep, I'm still actively against peeking. The only time I've seen it in action lead to disaster, so I'm really not convinced it will be worth it in the long run right now.

Another problem with the fake green checks is that the players would have to basically treat them as town-reads until real cop is revealed in some fashion. It would be weird if the player would later on vote on their "green check", which would give scum more help in deducing the possible real cop (obviously real cop could do this as well, though).

Godfather's exist, as do switchers, even the real cop doesn't have to take their results as gospel.



There was some discussion about what the cop should do with an N1 red check. Few options:
1) claim
2) breadcrumb and fake peek, ideally on a dead townie
3) breadcrumb and don't peek (assuming not everyone peeks). Even if most people fake peek, the cop doesn't necessarily have to join in.

Also had a thought: I mentioned earlier about fake peeking many roles. Fake peeking switcher will make it MUCH harder for scum to find the real cop.

 

[Ty4on]

I don't understand why you would townread anyone so easily. I'm not familiar with scum Burb, but I'm sure he's be more than capable of making the few posts he'd made in the thread up to that point.

I was also (I think it was the same post) reminded of your previous statements of struggling with interacting with teammates, made me wonder if that slightly forced read was due to you overcompensating for that.

A town read now doesn't mean I'm going to defend him till I die
Burb was a gut scum read in Doctor Doctor for not confronting and posting vague reads. His attack on Kyan was the polar opposite.

 

[Ty4on]

First, yes, I feel 1 cop for 1 scum is a good trade. Cop is a very powerful role on paper, but in practice, especially on GAFia, they tend to be minor at best. I know we all like to imagine that amazing cop that lives to day 6, verifies 3 town and pins 2 scum all while dodging lynches and kills. This never happens, as far as I'm aware. Darryl came close in Archer and it was only because they had a private room to set it up. What does happen with regularity:
[...]

Pls pls pls pls this.

Cop finding scum should always claim, not claiming is just greedy. A scum flip is so much more valuable to town and scum peeks are almost impossible to implement.

 

[cabot]

I mostly read Kyan's night action baiting as a joke.


nin1000 v5.9 did you ever come to a conclusion on that?

 

[Ty4on]

I mostly read Kyan's night action baiting as a joke.


nin1000 v5.9 did you ever come to a conclusion on that?

How do you read Kyan in general? He's been so silent.

 

[nin1000]

I mostly read Kyan's night action baiting as a joke.


nin1000 v5.9 did you ever come to a conclusion on that?

Hello. I was sleeping and now I am celebrating BSP's birthday. I will come back later on and read through the thread.

You can all read me as null, since I did not really engage into the game up to this point.

See you later.

 

[cabot]

How do you read Kyan in general? He's been so silent.

Nothing seems to be different from the other games I've seen him in.

That points to scum right now. Was hoping if he was town he'd change up completely but it seems it won't be that easy.

 

[franconp]

It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.

I played with him in Bar and...yeah. He's a silent, off to the side kind of player.

 

[Ty4on]

It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.

He's been quite inactive in past games I've played, but usually responding with a fairly long post once he does start posting. Right now though I'm starting to wonder if he's going to be replaced.

Nothing seems to be different from the other games I've seen him in.

That points to scum right now. Was hoping if he was town he'd change up completely but it seems it won't be that easy.

Which games other than LB have you played with him BTW? I thought he'd be much more active than in his first game.

 

[cabot]

He's been quite inactive in past games I've played, but usually responding with a fairly long post once he does start posting. Right now though I'm starting to wonder if he's going to be replaced.

Which games other than LB have you played with him BTW? I thought he'd be much more active than in his first game.

I don't think I've played with him in any others, but I've read all games he's been in. I'm his stalker.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

so, how many here are actually for the mass name claim?

because its being brought up a whole lot, but seems mostly just for people to say how so totally against it they are.

 

[franconp]

Maybe it's just me but all this last post from splinter and cabot they look to me like....complementary. Like coordinate to follow an agenda. That doesn't mean they are scum but that's the feel I get.

I also get a similar feeling with Burbeting and Haly.

 

[Ty4on]

so, how many here are actually for the mass name claim?

because its being brought up a whole lot, but seems mostly just for people to say how so totally against it they are.

Nah, I don't really get what we'd gain when names are NAI.

 

[cabot]

so, how many here are actually for the mass name claim?

because its being brought up a whole lot, but seems mostly just for people to say how so totally against it they are.

Against.

I'm not really sure how Burb and Haly 'complement' each other, fran?

I see this:

Top town is burbeting cause I like bears...

which is throwaway, there's almost no other direct interaction, and Burb is against peeking whereas Haly endorsed it...

Care to share?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Nah, I don't really get what we'd gain when names are NAI.

yeah, i still have yet to hear a single reason for how outing hero names would benefit us at all.

 

[Ty4on]

VOTE: Barrylocke

pls post

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Just played some OW. I fucking hate Symmetra.

Goodnight.

 

[franconp]

Against.

I'm not really sure how Burb and Haly 'complement' each other, fran?

I see this:



which is throwaway, there's almost no other direct interaction, and Burb is against peeking whereas Haly endorsed it...

Care to share?

To me it's all about the role name claims. I think Haly make a very bad post when proposing to make the role name claims and when most of us didn't liked the idea burb came to make some damage control on it. Maybe I should reread.

 

[franconp]

in this kind of instance, i think its just ju to the cops own best judgement whether or not they should come forward with thier results or keep it under wraps and keep investigating.

Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.

dont tell me what i cant be ignorant about!

also melon proposed the peeking.

 

[Ty4on]

Oh that's neato. I'm all for it.

Haly is a weird read for me. I like his tone like in that post. Doesn't think about how to respond, just responds what he thinks. I like his stance on peeking in general and not just because I agree. On the other hand he's talking a lot about mechanics and barely has any reads.

 

[melonrabbit]

I'm down for peeking. I'll probably do it like last game where I give potential actions for a whole bunch of roles.

Also I agree about Ouro, despite that possible deflecting he did for Xam.

I think Kyan claiming vanilla is nothing and it's weird that Burb (and now you?) take it seriously. Burb laments that "we'll never know if it was a mistake now that people have given him the excuse", but that feels like nonsense too. Even it had been a genuine mistake, it's the easiest excuse to make, we'd never get any further with that line of questioning. So Burb either didn't consider that or is feigning concern.

Are you saying you don't think Kyan is up to something?

Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.

dont tell me what i cant be ignorant about!

also melon proposed the peeking.

Between Fran and Marze I'm getting little credit for peeking here.

 

[Ty4on]

Are you saying you don't think Kyan is up to something?

What do you mean by this?

Between Fran and Marze I'm getting little credit for peeking here.

I'm not sure what to make of people missing who brought it up

I didn't catch your first mention of peeking though.

 

[franconp]

dont tell me what i cant be ignorant about!

also melon proposed the peeking.

Really? I was pretty sure it was you. That's what happens when I'm in a hurry and don't double check things.

Even then it was a very bad post.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Really? I was pretty sure it was you. That's what happens when I'm in a hurry and don't double check things.

Even then it was a very bad post.

yeah, this is why we discuss plans like this, so that others can see the flaws we have missed, sorry if i didn't find every single flaw in a plan i liked.

 

[franconp]

Just reread and you were the one to propose it for this game. Melon just casually mention it.

sorry i forgot to reply before in my hurry to catch up,

but i am actually completely for the peeking strat this game.

to me it actually makes way more sense in a role madness game than in a normal one.

Before this we didn't even think of using it.