Support NeoGAF

[divisionbyzorro]

I think you'll see a lot of support switching, to be honest. The problem is that Resurrection is still the most powerful ultimate in the game, and Sound Barrier is an excellent "counter target opposing ultimate" button as well. But then again, the updated Tranquility also kinda does the same thing as Sound Barrier, and Nanoboost is better for pushing a point.

So basically I'm somewhat bummed I just bought a Lucio legendary skin, because I kinda think his usage is going to start going down. I intend to really start learning Zenyatta and Ana once the changes go live.

 

[abundant]

They need to fix sudden death, having 1:30 to cap a point is ridiculous

They're getting rid of it after this season.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Do you guys all play on PC? Because on console, with the FTH nerf, McCree's stun doesn't last long enough to finish her off most of the time or to line up a headshot.

I do. In general, the accurate hitscan characters like Soldier and McCree can try to just outshoot her. It's certainly sketchy though.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

They need to fix sudden death, having 1:30 to cap a point is ridiculous

It's map specific to give defenders a chance to win.

 

[m4st4]

2:2 on Lijiang Tower, 45 minute match... and one of ours LEAVES during round 5?

Seriously, Blizzard needs to cushion my broken heart with lots more than just VICTORY (with a slight nudge up) or DEFEAT (dropkick to down below with a small chance to rise again when playing outside of a group). Seriously, give me a percentage of XP based on my performance, give me medal for bravery lol... my hands are shaking from these 99%-99% constant contesting plays and I honestly don't want to play the game for a while after such bullshit leaves and reward mechanics.

Sorry for all the salt but it is how it is, from day 1 when it comes to competitive season 1, in my book.

How is everyone's experience playing outside of a group, competitive I mean? I don't have friends who play this, my mic is broken etc. I was level 60, dropped to 50, now I'm 53.

 

[Dead Prince]

I think you'll see a lot of support switching, to be honest. The problem is that Resurrection is still the most powerful ultimate in the game, and Sound Barrier is an excellent "counter target opposing ultimate" button as well. But then again, the updated Tranquility also kinda does the same thing as Sound Barrier, and Nanoboost is better for pushing a point.

So basically I'm somewhat bummed I just bought a Lucio legendary skin, because I kinda think his usage is going to start going down. I intend to really start learning Zenyatta and Ana once the changes go live.

but zen's ult is damage stopper and heal at the same time. sound barrier is just to give you that shield and once it's gone you're still left with the energy you had before. unless you ult lucio and then have the heal boost off CD.

 

[abundant]

It's map specific to give defenders a chance to win.

The problem with that is - when you're playing with randoms, the defenders always have the advantage (for obvious reasons), no matter what map you play on.

 

[zonezeus]

I've been playing Tracer extensively for the past couple of days and I'd say her best counters are Torb's turrets and accurate McCree, but if you can't field Torb and are shit with McCree the best other counter is Junkrat. Trap works wonders against Tracer because she can't recall from it, mines provide good AoE damage and spamming grenades around denies a lot of her mobility. Plus, she's usually at close range from you so even after you die your bombs can still eliminate her if she's out of blinks.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

but zen's ult is damage stopper and heal at the same time. sound barrier is just to give you that shield and once it's gone you're still left with the energy you had before. unless you ult lucio and then have the heal boost off CD.

That's my point. Lucio was more survivable, and better able to protect the entire team with a well-timed Sound Barrier. Now that Zen is more survivable and he can move like Barry Allen during his ultimate, my best guess is that Tranquility is just an overall better ultimate than Sound Barrier, save for certain edge cases like Riptire. Zen can focus heal faster than Lucio, so he's better at supporting tanks, and he has better damage output.

I kinda think he's just better than Lucio now, but time will tell.

 

[duckroll]

Had two hard lockups with jammed audio loop while playing Overwatch today. Getting a little concerned... System's pretty new, so I wonder what's up. >_<

 

[-MD-]

I feel like Tracer needs a hard counter. Who is best against her now? Winston? She can dash far, far away from him and whittle him down. Roadhog? Half the time she'll have recall up and can survive the hook combo. Junkrat's trap is great but the enemy Tracer has to be really, really, unaware of her surroundings to go down from that.

Roadhog remains her biggest threat.

Recall will let you escape a few hooks but ~80% of them will result in instant death.

 

[abundant]

That's my point. Lucio was more survivable, and better able to protect the entire team with a well-timed Sound Barrier. Now that Zen is more survivable and he can move like Barry Allen during his ultimate, my best guess is that Tranquility is just an overall better ultimate than Sound Barrier, save for certain edge cases like Riptire. Zen can focus heal faster than Lucio, so he's better at supporting tanks, and he has better damage output.

I kinda think he's just better than Lucio now, but time will tell.

After the patch hits, I'll be shocked if Zen doesn't replace Lucio in the meta.

 

[Palmer_v1]

But can Zen boop people off the map on Ilios? Never underestimate the morale loss a team suffers when getting booped.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Lucio will probably still see some play on KOTH. On Payload/2CP/Hybrid, I have to imagine you'll just play Zen or Ana.

 

[Ramirez]

Lucio is so annoying and hard to kill if they're good, I really can't see Zen replacing him for stuff like Payload/KOTH contesting.

 

[AHappyPanda]

But can Zen boop people off the map on Ilios? Never underestimate the morale loss a team suffers when getting booped.

I don't underestimate the boop.

But Zen can just Discord orb your ass and kill you in 4 orbs.

 

[LiK]

Lucio is so annoying and hard to kill if they're good, I really can't see Zen replacing him for stuff like Payload/KOTH contesting.

Haha yea, I do enjoy playing as Lucio on Payloads. If you're skating around the payload, you're almost invincible. It's fun altho I only play Lucio in Payloads if no one else chooses him.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Trying to understand why we would need a Hanzo and a Widow when we don't have a tank on the Nepal tiny square house map. :-/

 

[abundant]

Lucio is so annoying and hard to kill if they're good, I really can't see Zen replacing him for stuff like Payload/KOTH contesting.

This is true. It's kind of amazing how before the only viable Supports were Lucio and Mercy, and now after this patch hits, everyone but Symm become viable picks. Makes me wonder what's going to happen when the next big patch hits.

 

[Kurita]

Had a guy on my team saying he died because of RNG (on the global chat)

Everybody is like "what"
"Oh, CoD players..."
"What"
"Cry =3"

What
An enigma for the ages

 

[Kuro]

I just crashed the server by rushing a barrier d.va with rein on anubis and we fused together

 

[17 Seconds]

is there a place to see what skins look like from the actual first person perspective? i just care about what the guns and arms look like.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The problem with that is - when you're playing with randoms, the defenders always have the advantage (for obvious reasons), no matter what map you play on.

That isn't true. Attackers have the advantage, hence why they started sudden death at 2 minutes and had to dial it down, not up.

 

[Copenap]

is there a place to see what skins look like from the actual first person perspective? i just care about what the guns and arms look like.

Youtube I guess? I'm sure there are vods for all characters with all skins.

 

[Kuro]

Is blizzard actively banning people for harrasment?

 

[abundant]

That isn't true. Attackers have the advantage, hence why they started sudden death at 2 minutes and had to dial it down, not up.

Depending on rank, it is true. Mid 40s and below are filled with brain dead players who refuse to work as a team. Those players usually have a better chance of winning if they are defending. I'm not saying that the changes are fair or not, just explaining why some people may think it's not fair.

Anyways, the point is moot since Sudden Death will be gone after this season ends.

 

[Rad-]

Zen won't replace Lucio because his heal orb just isn't good enough for him to be the main healer. I think that every serious team will still see one of either Mercy or Lucio.

However Zen will be in addition to them.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

This is true. It's kind of amazing how before the only viable Supports were Lucio and Mercy, and now after this patch hits, everyone but Symm become viable picks. Makes me wonder what's going to happen when the next big patch hits.

Symm is still fine for defending the first point, but she's really a Defense hero, not a Support.

 

[abundant]

Zen won't replace Lucio because his heal orb just isn't good enough for him to be the main healer. I think that every serious team will still see one of either Mercy or Lucio.

However Zen will be in addition to them.

When I talk about Zen replacing Lucio, I do so with the thought of the team having two supports. Any serious team will always have two supports.

 

[Animator]

Is blizzard actively banning people for harrasment?

They would have to ban %90 of the playerbase for that.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Symm is still fine for defending the first point, but she's really a Defense hero, not a Support.

It's because her shields are a total nonfactor on most heroes, unfortunately. Teleporter is nice, but a support should be able to help their team not die, not just reduce the impact when they do.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I feel like you still almost have to run Mercy in a top-level team comp.

I think the reason you'll run Zen and/or Ana along with something else is that they bring more damage output to the table than Lucio does (boops not-withstanding). Ana's ult seems especially good for breaking open a chokepoint

Again, we'll have to see how it all shakes out. I know that when the patch hits, I'm maining Zen and Ana and putting Lucio to the side.

 

[Rad-]

When I talk about Zen replacing Lucio, I do so with the thought of the team having two supports. Any serious team will always have two supports.

Ah ok, misunderstood that.

About Symmetra, she really needs a buff to make her a viable choice in general play and not just as a first cap point defender. If they won't buff her shield ability, they should at least buff her weapon. Either more range to fire1 or more speed to fire2.

 

[twobear]

they'll never introduce a proper tracer hardcounter, the OW team is clearly too in love with the character for that

but orb of discord and winston works

 

[eek5]

i can see winston. but roadhog? hook combo should kill him. but without hook. maybe. a

also zen vs zen. you guys better practice moving and headshotting.

Not everything is 1v1 though. Zen puts roadhog in a bad position because RH already takes fire from everything. When zen is on the field RH now has a discorb orb on his head and the team will just melt him. Roadhog has no armor to help him tank damage so he'll get destroyed.

 

[abundant]

I feel like you still almost have to run Mercy in a top-level team comp.

I think the reason you'll run Zen and/or Ana along with something else is that they bring more damage output to the table than Lucio does (boops not-withstanding). Ana's ult seems especially good for breaking open a chokepoint

Again, we'll have to see how it all shakes out. I know that when the patch hits, I'm maining Zen and Ana and putting Lucio to the side.

I can see Lucio falling off the meta in pro level play. At that level, dancing around as Lucio is not a good strategy because people at the pro levels are experts when it comes to aiming (it's why Tracer isn't that high up in the meta) and boobing isn't that effective either from what I've seen. Basically the only reason pro teams picked Lucio was his speed/heal boost + Sound Barrier.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Ah ok, misunderstood that.

About Symmetra, she really needs a buff to make her a viable choice in general play and not just as a first cap point defender. If they won't buff her shield ability, they should at least buff her weapon. Either more range to fire1 or more speed to fire2.

Her weapon is crazy good as is; I'd prefer to see some changes made to her shield. Have it give a set % of health as shields, rather than a flat 25, and let her manually recharge it; that could work like a regular healing stream, or as a sudden burst on a cooldown.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Ah ok, misunderstood that.

About Symmetra, she really needs a buff to make her a viable choice in general play and not just as a first cap point defender. If they won't buff her shield ability, they should at least buff her weapon. Either more range to fire1 or more speed to fire2.

I said this the other day in here, but I really like the idea of Symmetra being able to instantly teleport back to her teleporter by pressing the Ult button. This would consumer one of it's uses.

The idea is it gives her an escape method, and also lets her "I must protect my teleporter."

Since 100% of the time if you hear "I must protect my teleporter" it's immediately followed by "Teleporter has been disabled."

 

[Rad-]

Her weapon is crazy good as is; I'd prefer to see some changes made to her shield. Have it give a set % of health as shields, rather than a flat 25, and let her manually recharge it; that could work like a regular healing stream, or as a sudden burst on a cooldown.

I like using her weapons, her fire1 just melts tanks but I feel both of them are too situational and not that great in more high play environment where she won't get that much time versus random pub games.

 

[TheLetdown]

they'll never introduce a proper tracer hardcounter, the OW team is clearly too in love with the character for that

but orb of discord and winston works

A McCree that can aim.

Murders her at mid range, stun + FTH at close, neither is great at long.


EDIT: Holy shit at the influx of Zen players on console. 1 every round over lunch. KOTH, 2CP and payload.

They realize that the buff is still weeks away, right?

 

[Poodlestrike]

I like using her weapons, her fire1 just melts tanks but I feel both of them are too situational and not that great in more high play environment where she won't get that much time versus random pub games.

It's not just tanks; you can single out high-speed characters like Lucio and Tracer and really put the pain on, like Winston but with fantastic DPS. Also good against slow-firing characters like Reaper, if you can avoid getting hit for long enough. I mean, I'd definitely welcome a buff, but I'm not sure she needs it. Maybe drop the charge time a little on the alt-fire to make it a bit more spammable? But again, it's pretty good now. Her big honking issue is that she's a support who, aside from her ult, is absolutely awful at what you'd think of as being a support character.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

they'll never introduce a proper tracer hardcounter, the OW team is clearly too in love with the character for that

but orb of discord and winston works

McCree is Tracer's hardest counter.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I don't mind Symmetra's shield being sort of weak, but there's no reason to take up an entire ability just for a 25 durability shield. Make it a passive and give her something cooler as an E skill in return.

 

[LiK]

yea, stun/fan combo is the go-to for Tracers if you have a decent McCree.

 

[Anne]

they'll never introduce a proper tracer hardcounter, the OW team is clearly too in love with the character for that

Junkrat and McCree exist though. Having beefy tanks in a group exists.

yea, stun/fan combo is the go-to for Tracers if you have a decent McCree.

I think I said this before, but this is actually the wrong combo for McCree to do on tracer. Flashbang > single headshot is enough to kill her with no RNG or chance for her to mash recall. A lot of people miss killing her because they don't do this ;w;

 

[Rad-]

I don't mind Symmetra's shield being sort of weak, but there's no reason to take up an entire ability just for a 25 durability shield. Make it a passive and give her something cooler in return.

Hmm interesting. Make shield buff a passive aura like with Lucio and then give something new. I like that.

yea, stun/fan combo is the go-to for Tracers if you have a decent McCree.

Actually the better combo is stun + single headshot. Tracer can escape from fan easier.

 

[LiK]

I think I said this before, but this is actually the wrong combo for McCree to do on tracer. Flashbang > single headshot is enough to kill her with no RNG or chance for her to mash recall. A lot of people miss killing her because they don't do this ;w;

i do it anyway cuz it's flashy!

 

[Kor of Memory]

McCree is Tracer's hardest counter.

Reaper is pretty scary as well. I never take on a full health reaper as Tracer.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Bleh, just played against an all Torb team while we're attacking. We managed to win with a Lucio, a Widow, a Hanzo, 2 Junkrats and me playing as Reinhardt's shield. It really wasn't fun.

When's Torb getting nerfed on consoles? Playing on attack during capture/payload games isn't really fun at all now. I don't care if his turrets becomes useless, Torb's got a lot more to him anyway.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Reaper is pretty scary as well. I never take on a full health reaper as Tracer.

Nah, the problem with Reaper is that he can't burst you unless he hits a point blank headshot while you can just run circles around him. It's much more of a 50/50 skill matchup.