Reinhardt's shield is one. Whenever I see him marching slowly at me I start to charge it up. 200 damage a pop is nothing to sneeze at.
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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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Reinhardt's shield is one. Whenever I see him marching slowly at me I start to charge it up. 200 damage a pop is nothing to sneeze at.
I'll only play competitive with a select amount of people while having a 5 or 6 person group. In other words I haven't played competitive for almost a week it feels.
optimus8936
Banned
I don't care about the pro scene. Reinhardt gets picked in most pro games, but should he be nerfed? I'm sure the pros would still find some use for her, but pubs will just find her useless when you can just play Zen or Lucio.
Changing her ult doens't stop her from having extremely strong, on demand single target healing.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Ana is better at that tho
optimus8936
Banned
But her ult is her most useful aspect. If her ult gets nerfed, why use her over Lucio when right now, he's already a little superior to her, but just a little. Why only use her for single target healing, when Zen can do it half as good, plus give out discord and have an amazing ult. Same with Lucio.
And like what was said up there ^, a good Ana will have the same, if not better, healing potential.
Also the change to Zen's healing orb makes him almost as good as Mercy when it comes to strong heals on demand.
There are other things you could change about Mercy so that she's not completely structured around her ult being charged every 30 seconds.
And no, I'm not crazy. Mercy has one of the easiest ult buildups in the game. You don't have to shoot people, all you have to do is hold down your mouse button and it rolls in. It charges so quickly that she can have her ult ready in every major engagement in a game. And it's such a desperately unfun mechanic; expend your ults on the enemy team, then watch as mercy flies in and immediately rezes them all, ready for them to blast their ults onto you, turning a comprehensively won engagement into a 10v6 curbstomp for them.
There has to be another way to 'balance' this character besides pouring more and more value into an already too-good ultimate.
Ana is better at it in a skill-dependent way, can't hide while healing, and doesn't have an escape.
I haven't played the PC version of Overwatch since Wednesday evening. For one, it's been a busy past couple of days. But also, now that I have the PS4 version I am finding it more fun to play the console version with RL friends than the PC version with randoms.
On one hand it bums me out a little bit because I have a great PC that I just upgraded and the game looks and controls beautifully on it. On the other hand, knowing and enjoying the folks that you are gaming with is a great thing and if you happen to be able to do well with them at the same, then that's a huge bonus.
So going forward I have a decision to make. How much time will I put into each version? I have a level 53 on the PC with a ton of good skins and several hundred games recorded. On the PS4 I have a level 10 with barely anything and a large learning curve when it comes to aiming properly. But I do have friends and we do play well together. So I can definitely see myself favoring the PS4 version from here on out unless I can convince some folks to invest in gaming PC's.
We'll see.
On one hand it bums me out a little bit because I have a great PC that I just upgraded and the game looks and controls beautifully on it. On the other hand, knowing and enjoying the folks that you are gaming with is a great thing and if you happen to be able to do well with them at the same, then that's a huge bonus.
So going forward I have a decision to make. How much time will I put into each version? I have a level 53 on the PC with a ton of good skins and several hundred games recorded. On the PS4 I have a level 10 with barely anything and a large learning curve when it comes to aiming properly. But I do have friends and we do play well together. So I can definitely see myself favoring the PS4 version from here on out unless I can convince some folks to invest in gaming PC's.
We'll see.
optimus8936
Banned
Simple solution. Kill the Mercy first and she can't Rez. Then wipe the team with ults. Like I said, her Rez is not an insta win button. Most of the time, the people that get rezzed still lose the fight and it just charges your ults more. Again, nerfing her in ANY way will make her inferior to Lucio(better ult), Zen(better damage output and better ult), and Ana(better healing potential).
But it shows that she is more that strong enough. And she is the easyest player to play, so its not like you need pro aim to be effect with her.
If not many people play her in pubs, it has probably more to do with how boring people find it to play with her.
Yeah she's awesome but I think is a little bit more map and team dependent than Lucio or Mercy. Needing LoS to heal and debuff plus not having any movement or escape options means she can get messed up quickly in tight spaces.
I also think that Zenyatta is at least a partial counter to her Ult. Being able to discord someone who is nanoboosted means that their defense has been reset to normal and they will go down quickly to focus fire. I've seen it happen repeatedly over the last few days while playing Zen.
Rez doesn't have to be an insta-win button when it charges so quickly. That's the point. It's a powerful enough effect that the rate it charges is ridiculous. She can expend it resurrecting one or two characters and then have it back again in 30 seconds to resurrect after a teamfight.
Killing Mercy is easier said than done when she has such a low CD escape ability, and if you're concentrating on killing her then her team is killing you.
Again, there has to be a way to make this hero playable that doesn't rely on making her ult dafter and dafter.
This has always bothered me.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh god so many shitty mccrees now.
I know he's been buffed but he's a high skill ceiling character for a reason.
I know he's been buffed but he's a high skill ceiling character for a reason.
optimus8936
Banned
That's why it charges so quickly. Because it's not an insta win and rarely is. I would say that at least half of her rezzes fail, which is why it charges so fast, so it's easier to have a successful Rez.
Do you guys not realize she has the lowest win rate in the game? Nerfing her won't help that in any way.
Do you guys not realize she has the lowest win rate in the game? Nerfing her won't help that in any way.
ShadowsFell
Member
Damn, I got D.Va's B.Va skin in a loot box yesterday, and just got her Scavanger skin in a loot box a few minutes ago.
Removing the burden from Resurrection by improving other aspects of the character might actually help that a lot.
And lots of ults fail a lot of the time, I don't see why Mercy should be different?
[edit] Or rather, when all of the burden for picking her is on Resurrection, yes, not failing is important. But if they improved other aspects of her then it wouldn't be as important, so she wouldn't need to be able to use it every 30 seconds.
She doesn't get it back in 30 seconds anymore. It still charges relatively quick but it got nerfed by 30% this patch.
Garrett Hawke
Member
If everyone is dead and she's dropped in to resurrect them, then her escape ability is useless, it's really not that hard to zip behind the team and take her out with a Tracer or something. It also has the bonus of panicking the team as they try to kill you to stop you from killing Mercy (unless they don't care about her, in which case she will die). As others have said, her moment to moment healing is worse than Ana's, she can't heal more than one teammate at a time, and she has a very low win rate. The only thing Mercy has going for her is her ult.
30% on top of 30 seconds is 40 seconds, hardly a world-shattering change when it comes out so fast.
Which is why I've said that there has to be a way to make Mercy worthwhile without just breaking an already broken ult. Do any of y'all even read my posts?
optimus8936
Banned
It actually is becuase ten seconds could mean the difference between your whole team being dead before you get the Rez. Ten seconds in this game is s huge factor. Now, mercy can't get her Rez in every teamfight, so she's actually very balanced as of now, but any nerf will make her an inferior support compared to some of the others.
Garrett Hawke
Member
What could they do?
Increase her healing stream -> Ana is useless
Increase her attack boost -> Nanoboost less useful, McCree becomes even more ridiculous, etc
Allow her to heal multiple teammates -> bye Lucio
There's nothing they could do to her as a support that the other ones don't already do, or that wouldn't involve her stepping on their toes. Mercy is designed around her revive, and the other supports are designed around not having them.
optimus8936
Banned
Also, Mercy is the only healer that can't really support herself. Yeah, she has her pistol, but that's not gonna help you against a charging Rein or a Tracer zipping all around you. Plus if you're using her pistol, you're not supporting your teammates. All the other healers can defend themselves while healing their mates at the same time. Mercy can't do that, she has to rely on her teammates to do all the dirty work which makes her harder to use compared to the other supports. Lucio can shoot and boop, Zen has discord, and Ana has her sleep. They can do all that while healing others. Maybe not Ana as much, but you get the point.
Ana has a longer useful range than Mercy, reducing their differences to only single-target healing is inane.
They tried changing it to 50%, decided it was ridiculous, and put it back down. That's hardly exhausting the possibilities. I, myself, can think of 20 whole numbers between 30 and 50 that they could have tried but didn't.
Again, there could be some range between single-target healing and healing everyone in a large AOE around you to think about here.
A hero designed around a single annoying ability is a hero that's badly designed.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Supports are fine (well, other than sym really). Just learn to work knowing those skills are in place.
optimus8936
Banned
Reinhardt is designed around his shield, is he poorly designed? Symm is designed around her TP now, is she poorly designed(although she might need a buff now)? Bastion is(mostly) designed around turret mode, is he poorly designed?
If Reinhardt did NOTHING other than sit at the back with his shield, he'd be poorly designed. As it is, he doesn't. Symm and Bastion though, yeah, they are kinda badly designed, particularly Bastion. Give him more utility in turret mode please.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I'd say bastion is very poorly designed.
optimus8936
Banned
But the majority of Reins usefulness is based around his shield, without that he'd be worthless. Same with Mercys Rez.
Also, you want to buff a turret that has the most DPS capability in the game that can also self heal? Yeah I can't take you seriously anymore.
If they were to buff Bastion, it wouldn't be his strongest aspect, it would be one of his weaker ones.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Well there's the trade off right there... Mercy has to get into the fight to heal, she can be killed very easily - I don't know what else to say. Res doesn't have insane range, neither does her healing. Prioritise her.
There's obviously a reason they put it back down, and it's because any boost on top of that makes some heroes broken. It doesn't matter if they moved it to 40%, McCree et al would still be doing far too much damage. And if you think a few % on her attack boost is a worthy trade off for ult charge well... :/
A split healing beam that heals multiple targets with more at 12hp/s could work.
Disagree, but eh. The fact of the matter is that Mercy has a very low win rate. The ability is clearly not as OP as you think, otherwise Mercy teams would always win.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That turret is nearly a joke even at medium level play.
I dread having a bastion teammate because 90% of the time all it does is get killed constantly. Right now the game is at based around movement that a character whose primary trait is that he's rooted to the ground means that anyone who knows how to play the game will basically out maneuver them.
And they will never switch out. Never.
optimus8936
Banned
I mean, that's becuase a lot of people don't use him right. Doesn't mean they should buff turret mode, which is his strongest aspect. I'm with the idea that's been said here about changing his self heal to something else.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Incendiary
Banned
Yeah I've had ups and downs with full groups of GAF players. Even though we're all talking, sometimes being put up against another team of 6 is actually worse because it's an organized team who have played together. Still, it's preferable to no communication and randoms running around with their heads cut off.
It's all about momentum. Sometimes all it takes is a team kill, and suddenly the entire team is together on the payload and your team has no entry unless there's some sort of coordination.
While this is always the key, it can be really unfortunate at times when she actually has time to spawn and res her team BECAUSE you killed her first. It mostly bugs me on Gibraltar since she can reach a lot of people from the actual spawn room since it's below the payload.
Kayo Police
Member
Are people seriously bringing in fucking quick play win rates in determining a characters' usefulness and tier?
Mercy's winrate is so low because she's always picked, I'd wagered she's one of the most picked characters in the entire game. Following that retarded win rate logic then obviously that means Symmetra is the best support but she isn't.
Also for the Mercy issue. Kill her first, there's a reason why we have flankers and in team battles why people need to fucking learn to prioritize targets, there's a reason why you always kill the supports first. This applies to all the supports and their Ults, not just Mercy.
Mercy's winrate is so low because she's always picked, I'd wagered she's one of the most picked characters in the entire game. Following that retarded win rate logic then obviously that means Symmetra is the best support but she isn't.
Also for the Mercy issue. Kill her first, there's a reason why we have flankers and in team battles why people need to fucking learn to prioritize targets, there's a reason why you always kill the supports first. This applies to all the supports and their Ults, not just Mercy.
Garrett Hawke
Member
calm down
I was watching a tournament, where that same scenario played out, and the announcers were questioning if it was a cheap move Blizzard should possibly address/fix.
It was 97% pre patch and it was fairly agreed upon she was the "best" character in the game to have on your team. Post nerf people are already not running her in scrims close to what they did beforehand, Zen/Lucio is extremely popular right now in favor of Mercy. Not to say she won't still be ran because boy rez is a good ult but having Zen on your team to murder everything lends itself to a diff type of strat.
I agree that pre patch she was busted as hell btw but now there's a new meta and she's not as good. Get ready to see Zen/Lucio/D.Va/McCree comps when the top teams show up.
Mercy's winrate has nothing to do with how good she is btw unless it leans really far out of curve. Her pickrate alone skews her down quite a bit because if there is a Mercy on each team one of them has to lose.
Incendiary
Banned
So I was just in a game with competitive with five other people, our team was set up with a Reinhardt, Zarya, McCree, Pharah, and Lucio. I figured this is a decent set-up to utilize Ana, so I pick her. Everybody else then switches to all the other Support characters and start hitting me in the face. I get the hint and switch to Reaper and they all say thank you and switch back to the original characters.
Of course we then proceed to lose badly, but is everybody in competitive that against Ana even being used? Nano boosted Reinhardt and McCree seemed like a good set-up, in addition to Lucio's general healing I could heal and grenade. As opposed to just more DPS. I dunno, it felt like a good pick to me.
Of course we then proceed to lose badly, but is everybody in competitive that against Ana even being used? Nano boosted Reinhardt and McCree seemed like a good set-up, in addition to Lucio's general healing I could heal and grenade. As opposed to just more DPS. I dunno, it felt like a good pick to me.
Symmetra's design is pretty poor too. Her win rate is extremely polarized and completely unindicative of her actual effectiveness in an average game. Her kit seems mashed together from spare parts without any real synergy.
I mean I like Sym and I (used to) like playing her but she's so one-dimensional and I've been expecting a remake for a while.
I mean I like Sym and I (used to) like playing her but she's so one-dimensional and I've been expecting a remake for a while.
What do you suggest Blizzard should change in Symmetra ?
optimus8936
Banned
They are probably just afraid that some people who pick new characters are bad with those new characters, but that doesn't mean they are right. You should have just stayed Ana and if they didn't like it, then too bad they have to deal with it. If you are a good Ana and you think she's the right pick then pick her. If your teammates give you a valid reason as to why you shouldn't use her, then switch. But otherwise don't listen them. Do what you are comfortable with and what you think is right and if it doesn't work out, than just switch.
What are the best pro team comps? I'm curious what's used.
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Honestly, so many ults boil down to "potentially save/bring back an entire team" or "potentially wipe an entire team" if used perfectly, so I'm unsure why mercy is hell. Lucio can allow you to win any group fight, Ana is silly mixed with someone else. Any ult becomes hilarious.
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Honestly, so many ults boil down to "potentially save/bring back an entire team" or "potentially wipe an entire team" if used perfectly, so I'm unsure why mercy is hell. Lucio can allow you to win any group fight, Ana is silly mixed with someone else. Any ult becomes hilarious.
He is. I say give the bird (who we all know is the real mastermind) some utility - like dropping birdie "grenades" on people.
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