Forerunner
Member
The last few days have been decent, I went 10-5 and got back into the 60s, so I guess that's cool. Hopefully I don't have another freefall again.
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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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Yup, really effective junkrat play on your end I must say. Still playing around with D. VA since the buff but she seems very effective, even if her ult doesn't get too many kills it can make a defense scramble and get your teammates to pounce on them. And that first Kings row game I was so surprised we won, gotta love when a Lucio can contest a payload for like a minute at the 2 metre mark
thanks! yea, Junkrat is my most played in Comp now. I get so many kills with him. I think his randomness really messes up some teams so he's fun. I do real well with him in solo queues. I had to switch to Soldier in Sudden Death just to rush to the capture point. Bet they didn't see that coming, lol
Dead Prince
Banned
so there's a strong possibility that my issue is with blizzard. i would start to slowly lose connection during the loading screen and then drop since it can't make it to hero select. surprised i managed to play one earlier though.
RespectThySole
Member
Stupid shit ranked me down twice. Doesn't make any sense as my team was winning both matches.
I've gone entire games as a healer without getting a single Zarya bubble. I've said it before, but man, this game has the worst playerbase. It's like most people playing it are actively trying to lose.
Maybe he knows you're a feeder.
(j/k)
feeding his ass some heal ults
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Enemy roadhogs are great at feeding my heal ult, yes. >_> <_<
toastyToast
Member
So I got a half decent mouse and my accuracy shot up by about 15% on some characters. Maybe I'll finally get out of ELO hell
Red Arremer
Member
Honestly it depends on the situation. While shielding the support is important, they're not always the priority target for such. I'd rather put my bubble on a D.Va who's engaging than a Mercy who's safely standing in the backlines.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Been trying out DVA in defense, and I honestly think that I might prefer her to roadhog for D. She's better at responding to and protecting against flankers than reinhardt, and honestly with DM buff hog's ulti is not as good as a defensive ulti anymore.
I played a koth match before with a lucio that never used healing aura. He was somehow a 65.
Dead Prince
Banned
i love landing scatter arrows. that hits the head. <3
Incendiary
Banned
I just had the lamest comp match ever. Attacking on payload for Route 66, all but one of the opposite team left before we even reached the second checkpoint. Then two of my team idled out so it ended up a game of keep away as a Mei, Lucio, Ana, and Mercy just kept a Tracer (who fought gamely) away from the payload.
It was so dumb.
It was so dumb.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I really need to learn my corner scatters.
she's pretty much good in every situation and any team benefits from having her included
i like roadhog more for attack, esp. when getting a pick makes them take that long ass walk
This went to show that %99 of the people bitching about how they are on a "shit team" that's dragging them down from their true potential of rank 90+ is exactly what it is, bullshit.
If you are good you get to your deserved rank super fast. He singlehandedly spawn camped the rank 55-60 enemy team with tracer that one game, it wasn't even fair. Pretty much in all his placement matches he had terrible teammates and team comp too.
Wait, so my theory that your performance matters was probably correct, or not at all? From what I can tell, correct?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
TBF, while I agree, there's a difference between, for the sake of argument, a better than average player trying to carry a "bad" team compared to tvique carrying a "bad" team.
I agree with this totally. Solo queue can put you in some bad situations and drop your level, but if you were really that good, youd be right back in no time. If you cant get back up to that level youre probably just a net negative player at the level you dropped from, and the system is slowly bringing ou where you should be statistically.
there is a confidence interval to rank gain/loss that is constantly adjusted, im getting a rank per win atm because I'm on a streak and I'm hitting my season high too atm
tvique carrying is kind of an outlier, like I wouldn't take it as "proof" of anything. his carrying is just styling on ppl, there are other ways ppl can carry within the game and even at their deserved rank where they aren't necessarily better skill wise, but this is kind of territory that has been tread over and over in mobas. being gotlike def holds more water in a shooter tho
performance is 100% included in the calculation, it's just kinda opaque w/r/t how much it matters
i went 8-2 in placements and got placed at 57 and my bruh went 7-3 and placed 61, I know his stats were better than mine too, we duoed the majority of those games
tvique carrying is kind of an outlier, like I wouldn't take it as "proof" of anything. his carrying is just styling on ppl, there are other ways ppl can carry within the game and even at their deserved rank where they aren't necessarily better skill wise, but this is kind of territory that has been tread over and over in mobas. being gotlike def holds more water in a shooter tho
performance is 100% included in the calculation, it's just kinda opaque w/r/t how much it matters
i went 8-2 in placements and got placed at 57 and my bruh went 7-3 and placed 61, I know his stats were better than mine too, we duoed the majority of those games
Most characters aren't capable of carrying no matter how good you are.
TBF, while I agree, there's a difference between, for the sake of argument, a better than average player trying to carry a "bad" team compared to tvique carrying a "bad" team.
The only thing I question is what determined 'good', since we went 0-3 and did silly well (playing with a 20th percentile friend who we dragged to 66, orz) and our full rank a win slowed down.
I wonder if winning affects performance. We know how you play does, but does losing streaks regardless of being "best player in the world" if you were...does the game think you're suddenly bad? Or no...
Cause slowly over 3 games I went half a rank down each time, but now I'm not ranking up at all as I found out earlier today when I went 2-0.
.
A crazy ult from pharah or reaper maybe but not many more than those or a lucio saving ult.
17 Seconds
Banned
the meta is pretty lame on console, and i don't know if there is anything blizzard can do to fix it. people just love the killing machines (tracer, soldier, reaper, etc) and if you nerf any of them, they'll have no place in the game.
i was hoping that after a while, the people who just like to killwhore would eventually move onto other games, but it seems like the opposite has happened. it seems like those people are all still playing, they've just completely abandoned the other classes.
i was hoping that after a while, the people who just like to killwhore would eventually move onto other games, but it seems like the opposite has happened. it seems like those people are all still playing, they've just completely abandoned the other classes.
Dead Prince
Banned
is this tvique's drunk smurf account. lol @ his reaction when he thought he was safe from a nano boosted rein from top of building xD
Absolutely. Although a high skill Tracer is definitely capable of dismantling and spawn camping virtually an entire low skill team by herself.
RespectThySole
Member
Hollywood 4 times in a row 🙄. Won all of them, but c'mon.
Yup. Tracer/Genji are more the exception since their purpose is to basically harass and split from the team most of the team anyway.
RespectThySole
Member
Yup. Genjis too.
I think that the concept of "carry" might be a bit different in Overwatch than it is in other games of the type because of the way heroes are perceived. When playing with a team of random players who don't communicate, there are considerations to make. They could be shy, they could have nothing to contribute to a chat, and most importantly, they can't read your mind and many of them probably don't think too much about strategies or popular and "known" tactics. Not everyone playing the game hangs out on game forums or reads wikis all the time.
With all those considerations in mind, I don't think the main problem is that most people are shit at playing the basic elements of the game, so much as understanding what is expected of them or how they can contribute to victory other than running towards an objective and shooting at enemy players. They could be playing a Reaper fine in terms of trying to stay alive on their own, flanking enemies with his skills, etc. But they will probably not be aware of the situation on a level where they think about who they should be flanking, where they should be flanking, in terms of aiding the team in blocking off enemy routes and allowing the team to get to move the payload unhindered. Or you could have a Soldier who simply won't follow a Zarya and benefit from the synergy of shields + healing post to win most firefights, instead he might try to flank on his own, thinking the Zarya is better off alone while he shoots enemies from another position. It's just psychology at work.
On the other hand, I've noticed there are certain things which can gravitate players who are "lost" like that. If you throw in a Reinhardt there's a MUCH better chance of one or two players following him. It's something about the shield and the size of the character which says "THIS WAY DUDES" in a way Zarya doesn't. If a Winston jumps into a Point from the flanks and starts distracting and scattering the enemy team, there's a better chance that attacking teammates will suddenly see it as an opening and rush in, rather than if you have a Tracer or Genji doing the same, even though in reality that might be even more effective.
There are a dozen or so of these "basic" synergies which in theory are way outclassed by better and tighter strategies if the team is a known group and on voice chat, but work SO MUCH BETTER in random games just because they have obvious tells and make it easy for the team to work together without saying anything. It's not elegant, it's not smart, but sometimes it just works. Obviously it won't work if your teammates are actual dumbasses, but I feel that we are often blinded by our frustrations and call out team members who aren't actually dumb, just not the sort of players we expect. I'm guilty of this too. But I've noticed a few times where if I just stopped blaming everyone else and just took the initiative to dumb down the strategy a little, it can turn the game around.
With all those considerations in mind, I don't think the main problem is that most people are shit at playing the basic elements of the game, so much as understanding what is expected of them or how they can contribute to victory other than running towards an objective and shooting at enemy players. They could be playing a Reaper fine in terms of trying to stay alive on their own, flanking enemies with his skills, etc. But they will probably not be aware of the situation on a level where they think about who they should be flanking, where they should be flanking, in terms of aiding the team in blocking off enemy routes and allowing the team to get to move the payload unhindered. Or you could have a Soldier who simply won't follow a Zarya and benefit from the synergy of shields + healing post to win most firefights, instead he might try to flank on his own, thinking the Zarya is better off alone while he shoots enemies from another position. It's just psychology at work.
On the other hand, I've noticed there are certain things which can gravitate players who are "lost" like that. If you throw in a Reinhardt there's a MUCH better chance of one or two players following him. It's something about the shield and the size of the character which says "THIS WAY DUDES" in a way Zarya doesn't. If a Winston jumps into a Point from the flanks and starts distracting and scattering the enemy team, there's a better chance that attacking teammates will suddenly see it as an opening and rush in, rather than if you have a Tracer or Genji doing the same, even though in reality that might be even more effective.
There are a dozen or so of these "basic" synergies which in theory are way outclassed by better and tighter strategies if the team is a known group and on voice chat, but work SO MUCH BETTER in random games just because they have obvious tells and make it easy for the team to work together without saying anything. It's not elegant, it's not smart, but sometimes it just works. Obviously it won't work if your teammates are actual dumbasses, but I feel that we are often blinded by our frustrations and call out team members who aren't actually dumb, just not the sort of players we expect. I'm guilty of this too. But I've noticed a few times where if I just stopped blaming everyone else and just took the initiative to dumb down the strategy a little, it can turn the game around.
Honestly, this is why at higher level the best ideas can be the dumbed down one. Able to take out 3 guys and your team might not understand it? Get the fourth too and burn that ult if they can cap the point anyways- if they won't listen to you otherwise, you might as well make the message one people can loudly hear- you're all fighting these guys on the objective and four of them just died in an ult, get in the room. There's no other way to tell.
Alternatively, certain classes are way better at "forcing" this mindset push. A reinhardt walking up is a very clear message to a team for instance.
MarioHead3
Banned
It probably helps that Reinhardt literally says "get behind me" when he puts up his shield.
Yep, game was designed to have people learn through things like that.
Now the one thing I want is a revamped rank section- please Blizzard, seperate 73-99 and 99th percentile. Make 1-100 your percentile so low 50s aren't between 30% and 50% of players and high 50s in the 80%s and 60% being the last 15%, leaving only 1% with more than a quarter of the rank system. It's nice for the 1%, but to everyone else, you're there thinking "I'm totally above a 51!" and getting angry at the skill gap and overall lack of progression on your end. On the other end, you also get 59s and 51s grouping up for 'being similar ranks' even though in a more even leveling system most people wouldn't group up with someone an entire third apart on the rank system,which it essentially is.
Just have 1-100 be your percentile like it is now but have say, 70 mean you're better than 70% instead of 98%. Then at 1% use a different rank system and have it show how good you are within it. It's fairly simple and causes everyone to not freak out when there's giant skill gaps, people notice improvement a lot more, and overall, leads to more satisfaction with rank ups for the vast majority. The common mentality is that no one wants to be 50, because after all, everyone's in the 50s, and your good friends are barely 60. The only issue is people have to acknowledge their ranks would be very fluid, as you'd probably move a few a match. I think they chose this system for that reason, so that the top 5% or whatever can effectively gloss right over the 95% in a mere 5 or 10 matches, which is harder to explain to the general audience as to why they're doing that. Placement matches let you start in the 70s if you're somehow that good (read: Envyus) after only a few matches against 50s and 60s.
yeah absolutely, good post, part of what i was referring to when talking about mobas and carrying when you arent the best player on the team
even awful situations where it seems like a particular teammate is really just taking out their bad day on everyone, not only do you not fan the flames, but you also kinda got to not get sucked into this idea that you are above that person somehow, cause once you internalize that it affects your play and you can only do your best to control your own shit
I wonder if some people play the game without sound or something though, since the most obvious audio cues are totally ignored. "Group up with me" NEVER works. No one listens to that ever, probably because most people don't even know that the person saying that is marked by the speech bubble. "Turret detected" never matters either. Neither does "Turret destroyed". You can flank solo and clear out stuff to help the team push and they'll still blindly and slowly hover outside if they're unsure if it is safe to charge into a Point, and by the time they get in, the enemy defenses have been re-established. It's pretty frustrating.
On the other hand, if you're playing with even just ONE other friend, and instead of sticking together you split up duties so one flanks and the other "guides" the team with a Rein, it can totally change the dynamic. That's the sort of "carry" that works best on Overwatch. Not a single player doing really well, but players who know how to get the team to fucking move when they need to. Good support can also change a game around. Lucio carries are so real for KotH. Even if no one knows what anyone else is doing, there's no team strategy, just being able to keep everyone in the fight alive means individually they can continue contributing to helping the team even if they don't understand the how of it.
MarioHead3
Banned
The problem with this is that your rank would change drastically when you're not even playing, and that could make it really difficult to balance teams properly.
Other games don't have this issue. Your rank moves but not as much as you'd think. Just have it adjust after your match.
Regardless, they can balance it to be close to that rather than reserving an entire segment to 1%. This is a better solution than the one I proposed with your remark in mind.
Who are we kidding they're totally ditching numbers because people complain when their numbers not good. People would much rather see "veteran 2" and not 40%th percentile, it also makes them feel a lot less badly when they're 50 and get run into the ground by a 60/70.
MarioHead3
Banned
I would be totally okay with them hiding everyone's rank until the end of the season.
Er, not like that. They said percentile is a mistake. They just going to fix it the easy way and remove numbers for rank names I assume. No shown rank s= no feeling of improvement and worse turnout for players interested, they'd quit comp very quickly.
It's probably not the typical case, but I always imagine that those terrible players are children or otherwise innocuous until proven otherwise. I've been in situations like that before -- had a guildmate in WoW that would play with his 9 year old daughter and brought her on an instance run where she rolled on and won a nice weapon off the boss. Another guild member loses it and starts with the toxic comments towards the "waste" of loot on a non-raiding member and so on. He was quickly taken aside and informed of the situation (ie. That "retard" is a child) and proceeded to rightly feel terrible about himself.
This mental practice certainly cuts down on my internet raging.
I understand what you're getting at but find the phrasing "if they won't listen to you otherwise" comes off as condescending. It might be the case that a player is the more knowledgeable or skilled or proposing the better tactic, but it might also be that's not the case and the other guy has it right. We've all encountered people that are clearly, obviously, painfully wrong and just as adamant they're right. Who's to say we're not that guy from time to time?
I was saying it moreso as a theoretical method- I don't talk to my team (well, the randoms). I'm on PS4 and only play the game with friends, so the way we do it is a lot more foolproof in reality since both healers I play with are in a party with me which can help force a hard push with a second ult there or someone healing the guy who just ulted into their base from behind. These can really help set the pace of your teams offense in a fairly understandable way. Sorry about the tone there, didn't mean to come off as that, it's just the community overall constantly talks of their "idiot teammates" and "shit randoms"*, so I was proposing a good counter to that. Sorry there!
*Not saying GAF in specific, it's everywhere.
That is indeed a perspective I don't think much of either. I tend to expect or assume that the people I play games with are people who are like me. Obviously that's not the case, but it certainly unhelpfully feeds the salt when there is something that seems so simple and obvious to do, but isn't being done by a team mate. It makes me irrationally upset when there are bad Hanzos and bad Genjis who do fuck all and seem to be dumbasses using them just because they were cool in a CG cinematic trailer. It's definitely true that if I think of them as kids who are just trying to have fun in a game playing a character they think is cool, it's less infuriating. Gotta work on that to lower the sodium. Lol.
I don't play MOBAs at all, I have zero interest in the genre. Tried DOTA2 and HotS and just can't get into it. I like team FPS game a lot. I played a shitload of Counterstrike, I love L4D Versus, Enemy Territory, the original Battlefield, etc. I find Overwatch to be a great fit for what I enjoy out of a team FPS, and playing with friends is very satisfying. Not sure where I would fall within the skill and knowledge gap.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Finally plying again after the Ana patch and now I'm getting weird jitters. My RTT jumps up high and causing rubberbanding.
Almost unplayable
Almost unplayable
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