Area denial character is more of a team player than a flanker
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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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Area denial character is more of a team player than a flanker
wait @ me agreeing with you
Not when your ult can be on an area as a flanker and deny entire teams their lives. See High Noon when they don't know where it's from, Death Blossom (the king of team kills) for examples. Nothing Hanzo can do can match to those being used well.
Hanzo can't make a push on or off an objective alone, most offense classes can. This goes back to why offense>defense as the game currently is- their tools allow them to wipe a team. Mei's is close to this, but the other ults actually kill unlike hers.
LucidMomentum
Member
Man I hate it when people ask me why I switched to Widowmaker on Attack because no one is taking out the torbjorn turret....
I'll switch, pick off some people, ult, then switch to something else if I start becoming deadh weight.
I'll switch, pick off some people, ult, then switch to something else if I start becoming deadh weight.
Hanzo's ult can clear a spot from the spawn room, especially on payload. Reaper can't run out into the point and hit his ult, he'll be instantly targetted.
Not if you run in right, which I still swear 99% of reapers don't do, since they still just go front door with wraith active. This makes half the character for him (and for McCrees ult)- being able to use your ult in very clutch ways.
Hanzo's ult is rather bad vs other ones and his tools aren't the best either. Offense heroes? Weakest ult is probably tracers/McCrees, and even a Tracer can get a couple kills with it, a McCree needs the time and positioning.
Genji can solo teamwipe without issue too.
SirClinksAlot
Member
On casual Ive seen a lot of people that don't seem to realize he was nerfed.
"RYUU WAGA...." Enemy just sidestep away and continue their business. Smart people pick reaper because his ult doesn't have a start up time,it's instant and they flank from on top or behind.
McCree ult does a better job at area denial and zoning than hanzo's ult because enemies will run for cover until it's over and McCree gets a 50% refund on ult if he cancel/ let it run so you can shoot some more and quickly ult again.
Spinosaurus
Member
Noticing more of Torb than anything :V
Reaper wraithforms onto the point, enemy instantly targets him and guns him down. At least with the Hanzo ult you get the sidestep off the cart at the very end.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Is there actually a conversation happening about who had a better ult between Hanzo and Reaper?
O_O
O_O
Future PhaZe
Member
the high level game is all about comboing ults anyway
using a hanzo ult after a nice rein/mei/zarya ult wipes teams obvs
using a hanzo ult after a nice rein/mei/zarya ult wipes teams obvs
As a guy who has saved his team a stupid amount of times with a death blossom from behind their entire team to leave scraps of two people who a single healer can kill...
How is this even an argument
Hanzo isn't used much for a reason guys.
Yep. Reaper if you need to flank onto an objective (and I mean a real flank, not "oh man I got seen oh well" that you see in the 40s and 50s) and teamwipe, McCree for area denial. It's like people using s76 pre McCree nerf two days ago- McCree was pretty much better in every way.
And we're done here. No one who has optimized or really even learned the character in the slightest does this. It's one of the first things you should learn, don't wraithform onto the point and Death Blossom unless it's at like 90% captured and it's a suicide attempt to harm them.
TheDanimal
Junior Member
If this is how you're playing Reaper.
You're playing him wrong.
hard to do that when you never play hanzo in high level games Kappa
Fuck, Tracer is such a beast when you're in the zone.
https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/murika906?mode=competitive
64% wr and top 500 with her now. Pretty sure I have never lost a match on lijiang playing her. Been carrying most games with her and zenyatta, would have hit 60 if it wasn't for those coinflip payloads.
https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/murika906?mode=competitive
64% wr and top 500 with her now. Pretty sure I have never lost a match on lijiang playing her. Been carrying most games with her and zenyatta, would have hit 60 if it wasn't for those coinflip payloads.
That's the entire point i'm talking about is on the final push. That's the only time you can use your ult from the spawn point to get results as Hanzo.
by the way what pro competitive team are you on? Lot of people in this thread talking about a meta that they're not in.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Reapers ult is a game changer.
Hanzo's is a gimmick.
Hanzo's is a gimmick.
TheLetdown
Member
Does anyone have that Reaper meme image? Where's it's all text screenshots?
The one where the guy is like, "You shouldn't have got me angry, kid" and kind of roleplays it.
The one where the guy is like, "You shouldn't have got me angry, kid" and kind of roleplays it.
TheDanimal
Junior Member
It's not just the meta. If your team is successfully contesting the point, a good reaper can easily flank, take out a support, and straight up wreck with death blossom. You can literally hear hanzo's ult from a mile away.
Red Arremer
Member
Finally got around to playing through my 10 initial matches + 1 competitive match (to make 100% sure I get the participation stuff). Lost 7 out of those 10 rating games. 
I don't really care much about the rating itself, but that one additional competitive game lost me an entire rank worth of points. Watchpoint Gibraltar. On defense, one guy swaps to Torb mid-match, spams "ez" the entire game, we lose horribly (and I really did my best there).
Then we go to attack. Ana is our only support (I played a tank), what does one guy swap to? Hanzo, naturally. I swapped to Zenyatta mid-match and still outhealed the Ana.
Sigh.
I don't really care much about the rating itself, but that one additional competitive game lost me an entire rank worth of points. Watchpoint Gibraltar. On defense, one guy swaps to Torb mid-match, spams "ez" the entire game, we lose horribly (and I really did my best there).
Then we go to attack. Ana is our only support (I played a tank), what does one guy swap to? Hanzo, naturally. I swapped to Zenyatta mid-match and still outhealed the Ana.
Sigh.
I think finding the mid 70s easy is a valid enough point to talk about the meta and how our characters fit into it. Or sorry, do you want me to just throw your response about Hanzo being viable with "are you on Envyus? No. Then don't discuss the meta."
Anyways, final push you can still be fairly sneaky, because either you have the 3s to set up, or hanzo wasn't going to do a thing. I've teamwiped once they saw me multiple times.
.
You aren't seeing quad/quinn feeds with hanzo.
Honestly the only better ult to potentially wipe a team is situationally genjis because you can go to town and you can't get gimped easily like reaper, no mindgames on when you pop your ult are needed.
Future PhaZe
Member
its really not that hard to fit in a hanzo with the new lucio and zenyatta meta. Especially on something like escort attack where you don't need McRee's close range abilities as much.
So why aren't the high level players using Hanzo when it is not that hard to fit him in with Zenyatta/Lucio? Because a McCree/Soldier76 with a Zenyatta/Lucio meta outclasses a Hanzo with Zenyatta/Lucio in both mid and close.
Lol no decent Reaper player does this. What you should do is find the path of least resistance and flank the bulk of the opposition before setting off Death Blossom. Wraith form into Death Blossom is still viable but situational and shouldn't be your initial line of thinking.
Hanzo's ult was like D.Va's before the patch - it's very easy to avoid. The enemy has to be brain dead for you to get more than one kill with a Hanzo ult. Death Blossom nets me at least 2 kills as well as far better clearance of the area than a Hanzo ult.
TheLetdown
Member
Yes! Thank you.
then it heavily depends on what you mean with high level games, cause I sincerely don't believe that you can play hanzo in actual competitive games effectively
There's a reason Reaper goes 'Clearing the Area', while the other guy says something cheesey that makes him sound straight out of an old kung fu movie or such.
Seconded, this weird debate started with the view that Hanzos ult is more useful than a Reapers or McCrees (or any flanker), which is just wrong, as it's far worse than any flankers ult.. The counterargument relying on "well Reapers do <insert bad action>" that only bad Reapers do doesn't really work to show how good the move is, because a badly used Hanzo ult is up or down and doesn't hit an enemy team at all.
then it heavily depends on what you mean with high level games, cause I sincerely don't believe that you can play hanzo in actual competitive games effectively
Seconded, this weird debate started with the view that Hanzos ult is more useful than a Reapers or McCrees (or any flanker), which is just wrong, as it's far worse than any flankers ult.. The counterargument relying on "well Reapers do <insert bad action>" that only bad Reapers do doesn't really work to show how good the move is, because a badly used Hanzo ult is up or down and doesn't hit an enemy team at all.
Kor of Memory
Member
Hell, on certain characters I look forward to a Hanzo ult.
As a Zarya player, it's a free 50-100 energy for me, depending on if I can get a teammate to walk into a bit with my bubble.
edgefusion
Member
My god I hate Ana on console. She's in EVERY match and NOBODY can play her. Just awful.
optimus8936
Banned
As a Zarya, I always laugh when a Tracer throws her bomb at me. Thanks for the energy
Kor of Memory
Member
As a Zarya, I always laugh when a Tracer throws her bomb at me. Thanks for the energy
As a tracer, I'm going to shoot you first, get you to pop your bubble, then stick you. I'm on to your tricks... >.>
Edit: Seriously, though. As a Tracer, Zarya is probably the easiest tank for me to take out.
This is always important
If you're offense and you see the tank, you need to make them waste their defense mechanism first. It's not really worth the "oh but hitting triangle is easy it might work!" because you're wasting your most powerful move on bad odds.
Red Arremer
Member
So today I tried out Reaper for the first time. It's pretty fun melting people, not gonna lie. I might have to pick him up, possibly before getting Plague Doctor/Nevermore. ¬_¬
Me too, especially if I'm a character who should normally be able to get out lol.
Me too, especially if I'm a character who should normally be able to get out lol.
I feel shame when I die to Hanzo's Ultimate. I feel the life drain out of me when I die along with 2 others from Reaper's Ultimate.
Definitely speed. Have it move as fast his arrow.
Definitely speed. Have it move as fast his arrow.
Hanzo's ult is the overwatch equivalent of the indiana jones scene where some guy is doing all these sword moves and harrison ford shoots him
Itd be ridiculous if it moved as fast as his arrow but also i wouldnt mind seeing that cuz itd look hilarious, esp. if they sped up his scream and made it high pitched. Zenyattas speed buff on his ult is basically a qol change for me, just makes the game more enjoyable.
Itd be ridiculous if it moved as fast as his arrow but also i wouldnt mind seeing that cuz itd look hilarious, esp. if they sped up his scream and made it high pitched. Zenyattas speed buff on his ult is basically a qol change for me, just makes the game more enjoyable.
Maybe a bit more damage so if tanks get hit they have less chance getting out.
TheDanimal
Junior Member
This is perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE
Yep it's the difference between feeling like you're dumb for dying to something vs being very worried your entire team has lost because someone hit a button.
LucidMomentum
Member
On Payload / Capture Point maps where people lack the ability to look behind them, I love playing Reaper.
King's Row, sudden death on defense, I killed 3 people right out of the gate because no one looked back at me. They died before hitting the first opening.
Then they spent too much time looking for me to push the point lol.
I'm not sure I would argue with this now. I died in a game last night and it took me a solid couple seconds to figure out how I died. A Widowmaker shot me. I forgot she was in the game.
PalaceBrother
Member
This, or have it begin at the same time as his incredibly loud announcement. On consoles it really feels like there's a 1-2 second delay.
I don't get why you lose the same amount of points or even more when you lose a game after someone quits? They need to fix that.
Also why do I get more points when I play as Genji or Zenyatta compared to when I play as Lucio? Does the amount of kills you get really matter that much?
Also why do I get more points when I play as Genji or Zenyatta compared to when I play as Lucio? Does the amount of kills you get really matter that much?
Kor of Memory
Member
Your rank ups and down are based more on your participation of everything. Medals are kind of a good starting point.
If you're getting shit for medals, don't expect your rank to go up much from a win. If you're getting 4 or 5 golds, you probably wont lose much rank from a loss.
I seem to be averaging about 50 kills when I play KotH maps. I usually gain a full level from them when I win.
I'm terrible at capture maps, and will be lucky to have a bronze (usually in damage done). If we win, I'll gain like 15% of a rank. if we lose, I'll drop like 80% of a rank.
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