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[Papercuts]

He's not. I play around upper 60s/low 70s in comp on PC. He's very good and very punishing, but in a more coordinated environment he's a lot easier to deal with.

It's really easy for Genji to snowball a fight out of control, but it's also easy for him to not get a chance to do that. There's a reason he gets switched a lot.

He's just high skill cap to play and high skill cap to counter. I'll admit he's much better in solo q where teams have a harder time coordinating against him, but if balance starts happening based around that then we're in for some sad times.

I think it's a bigger problem on PS4, I've noticed a ton of Genji players recently and it's extremely hard to pin him down (doesn't help that he distorts his body so much with his double jump).

I've actually been trying to play him more because of that, maybe help predict what other genji players do once you see a bunch of scenarios through their eyes.

 

[Anne]

Well, on console things are always going to be different orz

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah I can't say genji is that massive of a problem here on PC.

Dragonblade is a pain but that's when you GAZE INTO THE IRIS BITCHES.

That's the exact in-game line right there.

 

[Skii]

I think it's a bigger problem on PS4, I've noticed a ton of Genji players recently and it's extremely hard to pin him down (doesn't help that he distorts his body so much with his double jump).

I've actually been trying to play him more because of that, maybe help predict what other genji players do once you see a bunch of scenarios through their eyes.

I think it's a big problem at the rank 50 already so I can't imagine what's happening at the higher ranks. Console players just can't move their analog sticks fast enough to keep up with Genji's movements.

So not only does he need a proper counter but they need to find a way to make it easier for console players to deal with him.

 

[hydruxo]

since the event is 3 weeks long.

next week's brawl should be mccree's polo and they are all on horses but it'll probably be tracer rugby.

but i wouldn't mind a 9 hole golf with s76.

but then again i can't think of anything olympic related or sports other than fantasy stuff lol.

Is there actually going to be different events each week? I was kind of just assuming Lucioball was all we were getting for the whole thing

 

[Jarate]

Winston, Reaper, Zarya, and a whole slew of other classes can annihilate him. Yes, he's annoying to deal with, especially good ones, but I find it no more worse then a good tracer on consoles, who's infinitely worse to deal with.

Genji is a high skill ceiling character, it's just the way it is. We should be improving other classes skill ceiling more before we should be trying to lower another characters

 

[ramyeon]

Winston, Reaper, Zarya, and a whole slew of other classes can annihilate him. Yes, he's annoying to deal with, especially good ones, but I find it no more worse then a good tracer on consoles, who's infinitely worse to deal with.

Genji is a high skill ceiling character, it's just the way it is. We should be improving other classes skill ceiling more before we should be trying to lower another characters

I find Genjis really difficult to deal with as Zarya. It probably doesn't help being on console but yes, although you can shoot through his reflect, any decent Genji will be way too mobile for me to hit consistently as Zarya.

 

[Anne]

We should be nerfing the 3 characters with 90%+ pickrates in tournaments before we do anything else :T

 

[Kurumi]

Nice try, Sonic. No matter how hip you try to be by referencing new succesful games, it doesn't bleed over to you.

 

[The Antitype]

You keep your filthy hands off my Genji, Blizzard! Don't pay any attention to anybody encouraging you otherwise!

I do agree that Winston could use a buff. Personally I think if his electric beam impacted movement speed and his standard melee was more powerful, that would help.

 

[Antiwhippy]

We should be nerfing the 3 characters with 90%+ pickrates in tournaments before we do anything else :T

Wouldn't that just give rise to another slew of 90-80% pick rate characters?

Not sure if it's possible to not have 2-3 staple characters with a roster this small.

 

[The Antitype]

We should be nerfing the 3 characters with 90%+ pickrates in tournaments before we do anything else :T

Which characters are those?

 

[yeehamuffins]

You keep your filthy hands off my Genji, Blizzard! Don't pay any attention to anybody encouraging you otherwise!

I do agree that Winston could use a buff. Personally I think if his electric beam impacted movement speed and his standard melee was more powerful, that would help.

I think he'd be helped immensely just by decreasing the cooldown on his jump. Lost track of how many times I've jumped into the fray, done a good deal of damage and thought, "Okay, getting close to dead here, time to leap out and find some health/our healer," only to see I still had 2 seconds left on my cooldown, and ended up dead.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Which characters are those?

Lucio, zen and mccree.

 

[Prelude.]

I just can't win anymore at the level I'm at, it's just a constant shitshow of toxicity, bad team comps, genji players being toxic and leaving, and just cancer in general. I had someone have an argument with other teammates so he left during the last section of the first round, we lost that, he came back and played Torbjorn on Gibraltar attack because he doesn't want to play with that guy. So we had Lucio, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Torbjorn, Reaper, Winston, and somehow got to the end of Gibraltar, so people actually started to get better picks because we were winning, but that guy still didn't wanna change. Next game, another player that "doesn't want to switch" because of the bad team comp.

When I finally find a good team, I get a leaver halfway through the first round so we're forced to play with 5 people until we lost at 2-3.

I'll never get back to 50. At least the season's ending and the placement matches won't be fucked up again so I can start at a decent level, where I'll get ranked with people with my actual MMR.

 

[Anne]

Wouldn't that just give rise to another slew of 90-80% pick rate characters?

Not sure if it's possible to not have 2-3 staple characters with a roster this small.

Maybe, but then that will help Blizz figure out where to go next. There will always be high pickrate heroes but this is ridiculous and nukes a lot of the other options out there.

Those chars btw are McCree/Zen/Lucio for whoever asked.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I actually don't know how lucio can be toned down. The only time he wasn't picked as much was when mercy was straight up a requirement, but lucio was still lucio then.

 

[Nori Chan]

Young Hanzo and Red Zarya in one pack :0

 

[The Antitype]

I think he'd be helped immensely just by decreasing the cooldown on his jump. Lost track of how many times I've jumped into the fray, done a good deal of damage and thought, "Okay, getting close to dead here, time to leap out and find some health/our healer," only to see I still had 2 seconds left on my cooldown, and ended up dead.

Good point.

That would be a big help.

 

[Syntax]

I actually don't know how lucio can be toned down. The only time he wasn't picked as much was when mercy was straight up a requirement, but lucio was still lucio then.

Nerf the movement speed increase. Not sure by how much. But that'd be huge.

 

[Anne]

I actually don't know how lucio can be toned down. The only time he wasn't picked as much was when mercy was straight up a requirement, but lucio was still lucio then.

Throw the idea of speedboost straight into the sun.

 

[Antiwhippy]

^ Oh yeah, for sure. Or maybe not have amp it up affect speed song.

Hmm, I actually don't know if you need to do much for winston. I thought he might fall hard with the rise of zen but he's still used to do the things he do.

Not a fan of lessening his cooldown on jump because it's the only thing keeping his monkey-ass in check. Also on his electric gun causing movement slowdown I thought you guys hate mei?

 

[ramyeon]

I just can't win anymore at the level I'm at, it's just a constant shitshow of toxicity, bad team comps, genji players being toxic and leaving, and just cancer in general. I had someone have an argument with other teammates so he left during the last section of the first round, we lost that, he came back and played Torbjorn on Gibraltar attack because he doesn't want to play with that guy. So we had Lucio, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Torbjorn, Reaper, Winston. and somehow got to the end of Gibraltar. so people actually started to get better picks because we were winning, but that guy still didn't wanna change. Next game, another player that "doesn't want to switch" because of the bad team comp.

When I finally find a good team, I get a leaver halfway though the first round so we're forced to play with 5 people until we lost at 2-3.

I'll never get back to 50. At least the season's ending and the placement matches won't be fucked up again so I can start at a decent level, where I'll get ranked with people with my actual MMR.

The 40s is an absolute shitshow, I understand your pain.

 

[The Antitype]

Couldn't you just drop his health further so that he's basically made of glass?

That way if team's want to carry him, they better damn well do a good job protecting him?

 

[Anne]

Winston is fine, he's just sad cause Zenyatta exists. He has a decent pickrate in tournament too anyways.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Couldn't you just drop his health further so that he's basically made of glass?

That way if team's want to carry him, they better damn well do a good job protecting him?

We saw what happened with zen.

Though lucio is undoubtably more useful as a utility character.

 

[Belfast]

I feel like a lot more goobers have come out to play since the olympics patch. :\

 

[Anne]

Couldn't you just drop his health further so that he's basically made of glass?

That way if team's want to carry him, they better damn well do a good job protecting him?

He could have 1HP and he'd still speedboost the team into whatever position they want.

 

[Antiwhippy]

He could have 1HP and he'd still speedboost the team into whatever position they want.

Eh, I mean, speedboost is still kinda broken, but not broken enough to make it worth fighting 5 v 6 once they've speedboosted.

 

[ramyeon]

I feel like a lot more goobers have come out to play since the olympics patch. :\

I tried to search what a goober is and got everything from a kindhearted but oblivious goofball to a person who wears socks to bed.

I'm guessing none of these are what you mean, and you're probably talking about bad players. Updates like this will usually draw a lot more casual players who perhaps stopped playing them game regularly back to play for a short time.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

The pros are not who we should be patching this game around.

He's not a 90% pick in tournaments because those guys are the best of the best at aiming, and that's what you need to beat Genji.

 

[Dead Prince]

when the other team makes a comment about our team are we AI because it was like 7 minutes left on the clock at the last point on dorado. but they didn't win and talked about how we got rolled through the whole game. if we did we should have lost the point by now since no one switched off lol.

 

[Antiwhippy]

The pros are not who we should be patching this game around.

He's not a 90% pick in tournaments because those guys are the best of the best at aiming, and that's what you need to beat Genji.

I'm pure garbage when it comes to aiming and I still don't find it that hard to hit genji. He's easier than fucking tracer.

I think the correct way would be to patch consoles differently to PC.

 

[Belfast]

I tried to search what a goober is and got everything from a kindhearted but oblivious goofball to a person who wears socks to bed.

I'm guessing none of these are what you mean, and you're probably talking about bad players. Updates like this will usually draw a lot more casual players who perhaps stopped playing them game regularly back to play for a short time.

Mostly the oblivious part, but yeah. I've noticed more now that there's new "loot" to get. It wasn't even this bad after Ana.

 

[Prelude.]

The 40s is an absolute shitshow, I understand your pain.

I've never had it this bad, honestly. I got ranked 40 because OW fucked up one match + leavers, so I got stuck around level 38 for a while, going as low as 32, and then managed to get up to 49 (it was like 5 pixels short of 50), but then I got this huge losing streak and now I'm back at 42, winning 1 match every 6-7. I don't know what happened, the level of general toxicity just spiked in the last few days. Even if I play duo or trio I still get a (mostly) cancerous rest of the team, so it's pointless.

I mean, it's either competitive with this kind of people, matched by a broken "ranking" system, or quick play with people of similar skill, but with a system potentially abusable by hero stacking.

 

[Anne]

If you don't balance around what people are capable of doing over time you end up with more shit tbh. Either people eventually learn to aim and fight Genji, or after enogh time he gets nerfed. The only argument you can make right now is slightly changing that ult because it is one of the best offensive ones. On console, Idk how that works. Y'all can figure that one out.

Also yeah, I'm being hyperbole about Lucio, but there is no skill ceiling to beating speedboost. That will just work no matter what really and that is an issue. Genji has like a 50% tournie pickrate which is higher than most, but not week to week 90%+. We have an obvious problem but people whine about Genji because they get popped by him in solo q.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Winston could definitely use a buff now. Ever since the D.Va and Zenyatta buff seems like Winston just gets melted these days

Nice try, Sonic. No matter how hip you try to be by referencing new succesful games, it doesn't bleed over to you.

How can sonic have such a big ego for something that is such a failure. Like they don't own the word sonic., what are they going to retweet next?

Lol what is going on with these salty posts? Did Sonic hump your pet or something?

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I'm pure garbage when it comes to aiming and I still don't find it that hard to hit genji. He's easier than fucking tracer.

I think the correct way would be to patch consoles differently to PC.

Tracer has less HP and doesn't have the best ult in the game.

If you can hit Genji consistently then you are not pure garbage, plain and simple.


Patching the platforms separately is a good idea that probably won't happen.

 

[Anne]

Genji's ult isn't even the best though. Those are all stuck on the support characters. Genji's is still up there though.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Genji's ult isn't even the best though. Those are all stuck on the support characters. Genji's is still up there though.

You mean the support ults that have to wait to pop them until Genji uses his to avoid a wipe?

 

[Anne]

You mean the support ults that have to wait to pop them until Genji uses his to avoid a wipe?

Nah. You should stagger them, yeah, but you have two supports so you get to keep them. Lucio's ult is really high up there right now, it basically allows any team to start a fight at a huge advantage and can also be used to stop a bad fight. Like, Zen generally holds his ult for an emergency like Genji ult, which frees up Lucio to use his more proactively where it works better.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Tracer has less HP and doesn't have the best ult in the game.

If you can hit Genji consistently then you are not pure garbage, plain and simple.


Patching the platforms separately is a good idea that probably won't happen.

No, my aiming is objectively trash. Behold the most amazing McCree you'll ever see. T_T

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Nah. You should stagger them, yeah, but you have two supports so you get to keep them. Lucio's ult is really high up there right now, it basically allows any team to start a fight at a huge advantage and can also be used to stop a bad fight. Like, Zen generally holds his ult for an emergency like Genji ult, which frees up Lucio to use his more proactively where it works better.

You talk about the game like everyone is on a professional team with perfect communication and team comp.

I understand that you watch a lot of professional play. But surely you can separate C9 vs Envyus and 'team average 58' vs 'team average 59' right?

 

[LiK]

You talk about the game like everyone is on a professional team with perfect communication and team comp.

I understand that you watch a lot of professional play. But surely you can separate C9 vs Envyus and 'team average 58' vs 'team average 59' right?

i'm an expert.

 

[Anne]

You talk about the game like everyone is on a professional team with perfect communication and team comp.

I understand that you watch a lot of professional play. But surely you can separate C9 vs Envyus and 'team average 58' vs 'team average 59' right?

I can separate how the game is played well and how it isn't, yeah. If you can't play around staggering ults and how to counterplay certain stuff than my only advice is to get good. We know how the game is played well, we know what works in a non mechanical sense. Eventually the mid level players will get that, or they'll stay mid level forever. Meanwhile in the 60s/70s of solo q people are running double support and are staggering ults. It's not that hard to do.

Like I don't think it's that hard to have two supports, then to have them know what situations to use their ults in. It doesn't take that much coordination. You hear a bunch of Japanese bullshit? Zen hits his ult. Your team has a numbers advantage? Lucio blows his ult and hits E. I can get people in the 40s/50s to do this once I tell them how really.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Balance shouldn't be only looked at up the top of the level, but really, it should be the majority of it, because anything else below has too much variance to measure reliably.

It's the problem with defense heroes right now. At mid level people find them obnoxious but they get no play at all at the top level, but even at mid level I find that I'm preferring not to have them on my teams, because it depends entirely if the other team knows how to counter them moreso than just skill. There's just such a variance in knowledge and skill that you can't really cater to it.

 

[V-Faction]

You hear a bunch of Japanese bullshit? Zen hits his ult.

Now that's an awesome thread quote.

Also, got one of the Zarya legends. Very happy.

 

[ramyeon]

You talk about the game like everyone is on a professional team with perfect communication and team comp.

I understand that you watch a lot of professional play. But surely you can separate C9 vs Envyus and 'team average 58' vs 'team average 59' right?

The tactics described there are hardly pro tactics and more common sense really.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Like take pharah for example. Last night I was lucio on KotH, and we were getting destroyed by this pharah. All I had to do was type in "we need to take care of this pharah, someone switch to her counter pls?", and problem solved.

As I've said, just too much variance in knowledge and willingness to actually play the meta.

 

[Prelude.]

All I had to do was type in "we need to take care of this pharah, someone switch to her counter pls?", and problem solved.

I wish it was that easy.