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[TheLetdown]

Why would you practice with Genji at this point?

There's a likelihood that the nerfs won't stick. That, and now would be the time to really grasp him.

Learning him after the nerfs is just stacking the deck against myself, since I already don't feel that effective with him. It will be worse when he's just not as effective.

All that + I have a nice robust cast that I'm really comfortable with. It shakes me up to step out. I'm working in an aggressive Rein for the same reason.

 

[xaosslug]

Is this over tonight at 8PM EST or tomorrow?

I'll probably be on, too. Probably practicing Genji, as well.

I only have like two hours or so in on him but I think I'm about to start doing a lot better when I finally broke down and upped his sensitivity. I didn't like the idea of having some characters more sensitive than others, since I like swapping as needed, and swaps to different game-feels are sketchy to me. He's a hell of a lot better with higher sensitivity, though.

Also, completely rearranged his control scheme. 2 triple kills with the Blade... really need to get that achievement while the ult is still OP.

yaaaas, all-Genji crU tonite!

 

[Azoor]

Why would you practice with Genji at this point?

Genji's nerf was uncalled for and thus there is huge chance they'll reverse that nerf.

 

[finalflame]

Genji's nerf was uncalled for and thus there is huge chance they'll reverse that nerf.

The nerf was definitely called for and I think Genji mains will be extremely salty when the nerf sticks and is updated on Live. He's still effective, just not ridiculous/game defining.

Guess only time will tell.

 

[Nazo]

Genji's nerf was uncalled for and thus there is huge chance they'll reverse that nerf.

I think if they do anything they'll probably give him back his triple jump but I have a feeling the animation cancel combo and his ult time nerfs are here to stay.

 

[LiK]

Force Gaming did a video on why the Genji nerf ain't that bad except for the double jump nerf. Pretty good video of him analyzing the changes before and after patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcblNteYhM

 

[duckroll]

Would you mind seeing how Lucio and his wall climbing is on the map for me please?

Pretty good. I'm still not great with his wall climbing timing, so I can't make every single jump transition, especially the ones which could lead to death, but the potential is there. The only areas Lucio can't seem to get to are the hanging chandler platforms within the castle itself. All the other shortcuts are pretty swell for him.

 

[FatCatAttack]

haha seagull just got hit by another hanzo arrow and watches the kill cam and even he went "how was that a headshot" there you go, this is the hell we're going back to

You mean a more balanced game where projectile based characters don't have to hit a hitscan hitbox? You did the same thing with regards to the God's stream where you take an offhand comment made in 3-5 hours of streaming and make a mountain out of the molehill. I've been watchin his PTR calibration VOD and he's purring in bliss playing Hanzo the whole time.

 

[Anne]

Genji didn't need to be nerfed that hard outside of sword but ya know. He can survive the damage nerf still though. Triple jump removal on top of that actually fucks him up to the point of "just pick Tracer".

 

[Red Arremer]

wouldn't be a patch without a torbjorn nerf

???

Force Gaming did a video on why the Genji nerf ain't that bad except for the double jump nerf. Pretty good video of him analyzing the changes before and after patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcblNteYhM

Force is a smart man. I really enjoy his content, he's probably my favourite OW Youtuber. I'm glad he made this video, and I fully agree with everything he says.

 

[Animator]

Why would you practice with Genji at this point?

Cause he is still a perfectly good character.

 

[Apathy]

You mean a more balanced game where projectile based characters don't have to hit a hitscan hitbox? You did the same thing with regards to the God's stream where you take an offhand comment made in 3-5 hours of streaming and make a mountain out of the molehill. I've been watchin his PTR calibration VOD and he's purring in bliss playing Hanzo the whole time.

lawl more balanced. of course people that play hanzo want to make it easier to land bullshit shots. I also never talked about gods because i have never watched gods stream ever. But thanks for making stuff up. If you want to know, i only watch seagull or moonmoon oh and sorry that one time i watched surefour

 

[LiK]

???



Force is a smart man. I really enjoy his content, he's probably my favourite OW Youtuber. I'm glad he made this video, and I fully agree with everything he says.

yea, he's my top 3 OW YouTubers. i enjoy his commentary partciularly about the community and news stuff.

 

[Weebos]

I haven't played this game in months (feels like it anyway). Am I going to get rolled when I pick it back up again?

I don't care about the Competitive mode, I just want to compete in quick play.

Does Symmetra still get flame when picked? I know they removed her from the "Healer" designation.

 

[backflip10019]

I haven't played this game in months (feels like it anyway). Am I going to get rolled when I pick it back up again?

I don't care about the Competitive mode, I just want to compete in quick play.

Does Symmetra still get flame when picked? I know they removed her from the "Healer" designation.

Nah, as long as you can aim, you'll be fine.

Symmetra is currently at the utmost bottom of the meta, but that doesn't mean she isn't useful in QP. I see her picked pretty regularly during pub matches.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

I haven't played this game in months (feels like it anyway). Am I going to get rolled when I pick it back up again?

I don't care about the Competitive mode, I just want to compete in quick play.

Does Symmetra still get flame when picked? I know they removed her from the "Healer" designation.

Depends. Is it a defense game? If you pick her for attack you better be pro with her

 

[Weebos]

Depends. Is it a defense game? If you pick her for attack you better be pro with her

I only play Symmetra on defense, if somebody is effective with her on attack I will need to see it, and then copy it forever.

 

[dave is ok]

I should probably get that 'kill four people with Dragonblade' achievement before the patch

 

[Red Arremer]

I should probably get that 'kill four people with Dragonblade' achievement before the patch

Not really necessary imo. Just group up with someone who's reasonably good as Zarya and go ham then.
It's pretty difficult to get as it is unless you're stomping some noob group.

 

[matmanx1]

Force Gaming did a video on why the Genji nerf ain't that bad except for the double jump nerf. Pretty good video of him analyzing the changes before and after patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcblNteYhM

Interesting analysis. Genji is loosing 30 dmg in the swift strike combo (or at least that 30dmg melee now takes a half second longer to execute) but the projectile buff means that landing his shurikens should now be easier and more consistent (and those are what, 30 - 35 damage each?).

He looses 2 seconds off of Dragon Blade but can still get 8 melee attacks off during that time versus the 10 attacks he could use during the 8 second duration pre-nerf. The overall burst is lowered but the actual dps goes up while he is ult'ing.

It will be interesting to see if the double jump nerf sticks and that will be a concern going forward but if it is just the swift strike and ult change then I think Genji should still be in a good place overall and a better option than Tracer on vertical maps.

 

[AngryMoth]

LOL at them putting a straight up dark souls bonfire in the new map haha

Force Gaming did a video on why the Genji nerf ain't that bad except for the double jump nerf. Pretty good video of him analyzing the changes before and after patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcblNteYhM

Solid analysis. Really hope the triple jump nerf doesn't make it out of PTR

 

[GrandHarrier]

Of course the wall jump nerf is going to stick. Blizzard has shown they don't want animation resets/cancels. Why would they give Genji a "double jump" that's actually a triple when it resets/cancels off of a wall? Why wouldn't they just call it a triple jump?

 

[Chuck]

I don't know if you guys watched the esl tournament stuff but it's shocking how every single team, both offense and defense has the exact same team.

every. single. team.

The team is Lucio, Zen, Zarya, Mcree, and Reinhardt, with the wildcard 6th player usually Reaper. This seems like a problem...

 

[Sir Griffith]

First time watching any sort of pro Overwatch gameplay, but I just watched part of the Atlantic showdown and holy shit, it's like watching in Fast forward with the lucio speed boost. It's almost like watching an entirely different game at this level

 

[Azoor]

The nerf was definitely called for and I think Genji mains will be extremely salty when the nerf sticks and is updated on Live. He's still effective, just not ridiculous/game defining.

Guess only time will tell.

I disagree, people didn’t know how to counter him properly.

 

[Shake Appeal]

More than anything else, the Genji jump nerf just makes him kind of awkward and less fun to play. The other changes I can understand, but the verticality and fluidity of his movement is what defined the character.

It'd be like taking away one of Tracer's blinks. Like, okay, now she is less powerful... but also much more boring to use.

I disagree, people didn’t know how to counter him properly.

This, plus the meta was playing into his hands. It's not like every SR40-60 Genji suddenly realized how to use him overnight.

 

[LiK]

i wish Winston got a 10% increase to damage. just a little more.

 

[Shake Appeal]

i wish Winston got a 10% increase to damage. just a little more.

The Discord nerf was enough, and I say that as someone who wanted his shield to have a little more staying power.

More damage would be... terrifying.

 

[SCB3]

Damn my D.VA is getting wrecked on this Brawl, switching to Lucio or Reindhart I think

 

[toadsworth]

The Discord nerf was enough, and I say that as someone who wanted his shield to have a little more staying power.

More damage would be... terrifying.

More rocket jump damage would be amazing.

But I think Winston is just fine where he is.

 

[matmanx1]

I disagree, people didn’t know how to counter him properly.

You mean saving a Lucio or Zen ult for use during Dragon Blade? Or keeping a discord orb on him? What else can you really do, realistically? I find (and this might just be at the SR I play at) that a good Genji is more deadly than Tracer and nearly as survivable.

 

[GrandHarrier]

You mean saving a Lucio or Zen ult for use during Dragon Blade? Or keeping a discord orb on him? What else can you really do, realistically? I find (and this might just be at the SR I play at) that a good Genji is more deadly than Tracer and nearly as survivable.

Maybe this is just me personally but Tracer is infinitely easier to deal with as Zenyatta than Genji. A good Genji can pepper you. Wait for you to notice him. Deflect so you can't do shit to him, then when you pause your attack he can just dash through you. You're more or less helpless to do much of anything unless you can survive the deflect window and survive the dash. Tracer is just a matter of careful aim, juking, and headshots, especially as you can sort of track her with your discord orb debuff.

 

[finalflame]

I disagree, people didn’t know how to counter him properly.

No. The combination of his ludicrous constant mobility + insanely long and deadly ult + animation cancel combo absolutely made him OP. Whether the mobility stuff needs to be nerfed can be debated, but that his ult needed nerfing and his animation cancelling combo needed fixing is not up for discussion.

 

[AnotherNils]

Winston is in a tough spot. He's a pretty good character, it's just that Reaper counters him so well. that literally feels like the main problem.

 

[Data West]

They need to remove the speed off of Ana's ult, honestly. I'm kind of surprised they nerfed Genji's ult but didn't look at Ana's at all

Winston is in a tough spot. He's a pretty good character, it's just that Reaper counters him so well. that literally feels like the main problem.

Dva as well. And he's an easy target for Ana's sleep when he ults.

 

[killdatninja]

Of course the wall jump nerf is going to stick. Blizzard has shown they don't want animation resets/cancels. Why would they give Genji a "double jump" that's actually a triple when it resets/cancels off of a wall? Why wouldn't they just call it a triple jump?

Since I'm on console I can't try out this new nerfed Genji, but seriously... even post nerf, he still has the best passive mobility options in the entire game. There is no one else who has better vertical mobility, without using an ability. So now instead of having the triple jump, the genji user needs to really think of using the swift strike to get out.

 

[R0ckman]

This map will be absolutely terrible with randoms.

 

[Azoor]

You mean saving a Lucio or Zen ult for use during Dragon Blade? Or keeping a discord orb on him? What else can you really do, realistically? I find (and this might just be at the SR I play at) that a good Genji is more deadly than Tracer and nearly as survivable.

Every hero can be deadly under the rights hands and circumstances. But here are ways I've dealt with Genji's ultimate.

You can hit him with a flying Pharah.

You can stun him with McCree and kill him.

You can have discord orb on him and let the others kill him.

And the most effective way, unleash another ultimate at him, like Zenyatta's or Reinhardt's ultimate. Even Pharahs can easily kill him with her ultimate.

As for normal Genji play, Winston can easily DESTROY him.

 

[toadsworth]

Winston is in a tough spot. He's a pretty good character, it's just that Reaper counters him so well. that literally feels like the main problem.

I agree, Reaper should have 200 health and maybe a shorter cooldown on wraith.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

So Hanzo can't wall climb as well as Genji, yes? Does the nerf make him more like Hanzo?

 

[Alucrid]

Every hero can be deadly under the rights hands and circumstances. But here are ways I've dealt with Genji's ultimate.

You can hit him with a flying Pharah.

You can stun him with McCree and kill him.

You can have discord orb on him and let the others kill him.

And the most effective way, unleash another ultimate at him, like Zenyatta's or Reinhardt's ultimate. Even Pharahs can easily kill him with her ultimate.

As for normal Genji play, Winston can easily DESTROY him.

i think my favorite is catching him with reflect on cooldown with roadhog's ult

 

[matmanx1]

Maybe this is just me personally but Tracer is infinitely easier to deal with as Zenyatta than Genji. A good Genji can pepper you. Wait for you to notice him. Deflect so you can't do shit to him, then when you pause your attack he can just dash through you. You're more or less helpless to do much of anything unless you can survive the deflect window and survive the dash. Tracer is just a matter of careful aim, juking, and headshots, especially as you can sort of track her with your discord orb debuff.

I agree which is why I am asking what his proper counter is. And I'm not singling you out with this question, it is a question for everyone. With Tracer, you always know where her head is going to be since she travels along a horizontal plane. Cursor memory is your friend vs Tracer with some well timed shots.

Genji's vertical mobility makes him much, much harder to take down.

 

[Azoor]

No. The combination of his ludicrous constant mobility + insanely long and deadly ult + animation cancel combo absolutely made him OP. Whether the mobility stuff needs to be nerfed can be debated, but that his ult needed nerfing and his animation cancelling combo needed fixing is not up for discussion.

I refer you to my previous post, and Winston can be almost as mobile as him and can easily follow him.

 

[Shake Appeal]

You mean saving a Lucio or Zen ult for use during Dragon Blade? Or keeping a discord orb on him? What else can you really do, realistically? I find (and this might just be at the SR I play at) that a good Genji is more deadly than Tracer and nearly as survivable.

McCree flashbang is the big one. Roadhog hook. Earthshatter. I guess Ana's sleep dart, if you can land it and a teammate doesn't fuck it up.

A lot of other abilities are useful in slowing or killing him. Sometimes just a team turning and focusing him is enough to mitigate his damage or drive him off. Unless it's a totally hectic teamfight where you don't notice him arriving, in which case, why shouldn't a [reduced, six-second] Genji ult be as decisive as, e.g., Reaper tapping Q? Reaper's damage comes out faster than Genji's, and he has to work a lot less hard to direct it.

(Weirdly, one of the bigger nuisances for an ulting Genji is a turret that the rest of his team hasn't dealt with on his behalf... but Torb is nowhere to be found in competitive OW.)

 

[duckroll]

I refer you to my previous post, and Winston can be almost as mobile as him and can easily follow him.

Winston is also a huge target for everyone else, while he tries to take out the Genji, and with discord running loose, Winston is cardboard. So while he's a good pick to counter a Genji if no one can handle him, it means you are already forced into making a pick on your team who has huge drawbacks.

 

[Blu(e)]

So Hanzo can't wall climb as well as Genji, yes? Does the nerf make him more like Hanzo?

No? Genji just can't triple jump anymore. He still has more options to use wall climb than Hanzo.

 

[matmanx1]

McCree flashbang is the big one. Roadhog hook. Earthshatter. I guess Ana's sleep dart, if you can land it and a teammate doesn't fuck it up.

A lot of other abilities are useful in slowing or killing him. Sometimes just a team turning and focusing him is enough to mitigate his damage or drive him off. Unless it's a totally hectic teamfight where you don't notice him arriving, in which case, why shouldn't a [reduced, six-second] Genji ult be as decisive as, e.g., Reaper tapping Q? Reaper's damage comes out faster than Genji's, and he has to work a lot less hard to direct it.

(Weirdly, one of the bigger nuisances for an ulting Genji is a turret that the rest of his team hasn't dealt with on his behalf... but Torb is nowhere to be found in competitive OW.)

I never thought about the turret but yeah a Torb turret would be a pain for him wouldn't it? Flashbang for sure works. I don't play Roadhog but is Genji easy to land a hook on? I would think not but I have no practical experience in the matter. I know with most 200hp toons Roadhog is one of the banes of my existence.

 

[AnotherNils]

They need to remove the speed off of Ana's ult, honestly. I'm kind of surprised they nerfed Genji's ult but didn't look at Ana's at all



Dva as well. And he's an easy target for Ana's sleep when he ults.

Forgot about Dva, I definitely love facing him too.

I agree, Reaper should have 200 health and maybe a shorter cooldown on wraith.

I'm hesitant to mess with Reaper. If there was a way to reduce the damage he took from those shotguns or reduce the fact that his massive hit box is easy pickings I think that'd go a long way.

 

[Azoor]

Winston is also a huge target for everyone else, while he tries to take out the Genji, and with discord running loose, Winston is cardboard. So while he's a good pick to counter a Genji if no one can handle him, it means you are already forced into making a pick on your team who has huge drawbacks.

I was talking about simple 1 Vs 1 counters, if we factor everyone else, then Genji can be killed easily with a McCree besides the Winston and that does also factor in the composition of the team and the map.

 

[Red Arremer]

I agree, Reaper should have 200 health and maybe a shorter cooldown on wraith.

Reaper is perfectly fine. He needs the extra health and escape since he's one of the slowest characters in the game, and he also has to get really up close for his best damage output, while all the other DPS can stay away.
Reaper is already pretty bad at mid range, and utter rubbish at long range. He's a high risk high reward DPS, and taking away the little survivability he has will make him an even higher risk character, where the reward still stays the same.