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Overwatch |OT5| 15 Million Strong, None Are On The Payload

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R

Red Arremer

Member
Bear Force One said:
It's not a troll. The point being no matter the buffs or nerfs someone will take to the boards and complain. It's human nature and a never ending cycle.

No one here should claim to know how to balance this with any certainty.
Click to expand...

Zenyatta went from essentially 0 picks in tourneys to being present in nearly 100% of all tourney team setups. So is Lucio, and he has been in that position for quite a while as well, even before Mercy's nerf.

There's "ermahgerd this character is soooo OP gosh" and legitimate concerns about a character dominating the meta at high level.
 
A

Anne

Member
Bear Force One said:
Outright removing speed boost tells.me.no.
Click to expand...

Now I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled.

You have an ability that has always been a cornerstone of every strat since it was put into the game, has created interactions that invalidate other known strats and even characters, and is just outright strong in a vacuum.

Me thinking that toning that down might open up room for other strats is wrong? I mean go ahead and tell me how.
 
T

The Wizard

Member
Been trying out Ana properly in quick play today and she seems like a lot of fun even though what she does best isn't really recognized by the game as you can end up with one or two bronzes as your only medals and no cards while having enabled the pushes that won the game. Did end up with one nice play of the game with her though: https://gfycat.com/SoulfulBlushingHornbill
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
I'll throw my hat behind the 'remove speedboost' argument. It has a disproportionate impact on the game relative to any other skill that absolutely merits its removal. I understand that Blizzard are not the type of designers who like to completely axe things and that they prefer to slowly tinker with things to try to get them working but I think this backfires on them a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with making or admitting to needing radical changes even if it is disruptive to the player-base; it's not the designers fault for having something work way differently in a live environment than in internal testing. They may be ok with having it be a default part of the game though.
 
B

Beckx

Member
thanks again for the zarya tutorials this morning, by changing my mindset on how to approach the character it changed everything. she's such a monster.
 
K

Kito

Member
When you're with a teammate for a 2v1 and they suddenly fuck off. What should have been an easy final blow becomes the reason for the team's loss. I'm Lucio, I save Genji from Mei's freeze, I'm thinking 'lets get your revenge and finish her', nope, he disappears and lets me die. She ults and kills everyone else.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
You know, maybe I am a lower-mid 50's kind of player, when it comes down to it. And I don't say that as a bad thing.

My last match had a widow on my team in sudden death. I was like "We're fucked". But we won. And it turned out that Widow was the one on fire at the end.

I want higher rankings because randoms can be such a mixed bag and it sucks when you see clearly stupid plays made on your side. But honestly, until they fix the Speedboost and Discord Orb combo, the game isn't going to be interesting at higher levels where atleast half of the characters aren't 'viable'. And that match reminded me what I like about the game....the variety and creativity and the surprises it can give you.

The only real reason I want a higher level at this point is to get that CP bonus.
 
B

brian!

Member
ok so I just got completely worked by a defense pharah on anubis, I feel like this is such a great map for her. I'm too used to zen/mcree just popping her, but she is able to stay up on platforms/archways/buildings and peek out really efficiently.
 
E

exYle

Member
Satch said:
All solo vs two 3 stacks in competitive 🤔
Click to expand...

You know, I've been in this situation a few times and I win surprisingly often. I find the two different 3 stacks have difficulty coordinating with each other, whereas the 6 solo-q have a loosely coordinated strategy.
 
B

brian!

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I'll throw my hat behind the 'remove speedboost' argument. It has a disproportionate impact on the game relative to any other skill that absolutely merits its removal. I understand that Blizzard are not the type of designers who like to completely axe things and that they prefer to slowly tinker with things to try to get them working but I think this backfires on them a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with making or admitting to needing radical changes even if it is disruptive to the player-base; it's not the designers fault for having something work way differently in a live environment than in internal testing. They may be ok with having it be a default part of the game though.
Click to expand...

my idea, if it turns out that aoe speedboost is one of those things that cant find ground between must use and unusable, is to have it be a targeted speed boost w/ more speed than it currently has.
you can even get a cool animation of him tossing some headphones onto the target

it'd be a big nerf, but it'd keep the playmaking it enables in the game, and ana would still be used for pressing onto a point and etc.

but a nerf on speed%/duration could totally be all it needs to fall in line and should be experimented w/ first
 
B

Bear Force One

Banned
Anne said:
Now I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled.

You have an ability that has always been a cornerstone of every strat since it was put into the game, has created interactions that invalidate other known strats and even characters, and is just outright strong in a vacuum.

Me thinking that toning that down might open up room for other strats is wrong? I mean go ahead and tell me how.
Click to expand...

Now I know this isn't seriously. Wow.
 
888

888

Member
As a Lucio lover after benching Mercy, I can see speedboost being deadly if used right. I was playing with a really good tank and we won a match in like 90 seconds. I ended up grabbing the instant replay of it because we basically rushed right through the defenders because they were not coordinated at all.

Skip to 3 mins in for the quick match.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AgWa3CUnnW4Qg7gW6FqSpSDEZODd1w

Now I have been shut down by a good defensive team or bad team mates but speedboost can be awesome. Maybe they increase the base boost but drop the amped up boost. He is quick enough to 1v1 a tank in general (atleast some that I play against in quickplay). I kinda hope they don't nerf him much. He is a lot of fun to play.
 
K

Kayo Police

Member
Apparently servers in Comp are running 60 tick.

1.0
 
L

Laputa_94

Member
Lost so many matches that were close. Just so disheartening, I love this game especially while playing with other gaffers, but when you loose the majority of the matches when you and your team are giving your all sucks all the energy out of you.
 
M

MarioHead3

Banned
Laputa_94 said:
Lost so many matches that were close. Just so disheartening, I love this game especially while playing with other gaffers, but when you loose the majority of the matches when you and your team are giving your all sucks all the energy out of you.
Click to expand...

And then we stomped the next team after you left. Wasn't even remotely close.

AND THEN THE ONE WE LOST TO RIGHT AFTER GODDAMMIT BLIZZARD
 
B

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
The Wizard said:
Been trying out Ana properly in quick play today and she seems like a lot of fun even though what she does best isn't really recognized by the game as you can end up with one or two bronzes as your only medals and no cards while having enabled the pushes that won the game. Did end up with one nice play of the game with her though: https://gfycat.com/SoulfulBlushingHornbill
Click to expand...

Ive been trying our Ana recently too and had a great moment defending the initial Hollywood point. Nanoboosted a Roadhog who went Whole Hog to kill 4 characters and then killed a 5th one right after with a shotgun blast.

Seeing his Play of the Game felt glorious knowing Nanoboost made that play possible.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
Soulflarz said:
lolol finally had a bad day with randoms, got grouped with low 60s and we went 0-3 XD

250->500 about, loool

what a shitshow the 60s are X_X

(Not trying to be mean to anyone 60s, it's just 60s->70s is like an ocean apart in how people play)

edit: why does the game allow 50s to play with 60s and 60s with 70s

the skill difference is ridiculous that one premade has an average at 72 and the other has an average of 61, it's basically an acknowledgement the 65s will body the low 60s and the 70s can't carry that hard.
Click to expand...

This is what I was telling you a while back. Solo que is a miserable experience at times because the matchmaking makes no sense! Randomly getting a 48 or low 50 on your team is an auto loss, and yet the game will do it at an alarming rate, lol.

I'm all for a Mei buff, the agile characters are so OP on console right now.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Anne said:
Now I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled.

You have an ability that has always been a cornerstone of every strat since it was put into the game, has created interactions that invalidate other known strats and even characters, and is just outright strong in a vacuum.

Me thinking that toning that down might open up room for other strats is wrong? I mean go ahead and tell me how.
Click to expand...
There will always be a best character for a role in a team shooter, and people will always choose them at the start. You nerf Lucio's, people will go Zen, you make Zenyatta useless again, people will just go Ana. I still believe the only way to fix it is by artificial means or nerf everyone until everybody's weak. The first route is just the "everybody gets a turn" balancing that plagues
many bad online game's balancing and the second route stinks.

Nerfing the speed boost, the main thing that makes Lucio unique as a support hero, into an ability that is no longer impactful is fundamentally dumb as fuck for Blizzard to do. It's the kind of balancing principle that takes games with unique classes and homogenizes them into a dull slurry. If you want everybody to play the same go play Quake.
 
T

The Wizard

Member
One thing I'm seeing now and again in matchmaking is you'll see a team that on average are a little worse than yours (by about a rank) and then they have maybe one member who outranks most of your team by about 5-8 ranks. Then this player picks something like Genji or Tracer which allows them to flex their skill and dominates our team, despite the averages showing a somewhat even match.
Part of the problem I think ranks aren't evenly distributed across the scale. A 65 and 45 average to 55, the 65 can dominate the 55 players while a 45 can pick a character with a lower skill ceiling like Lucio and not get completely destroyed.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
But should we not look into something that has such an overwhelmingly influence over the meta? Maybe not remove it, but it's clearly too strong as it is now since forever.

I think his aura healing would still make him pretty unique.

Of course we could just buff mei as a specific counter to it. >_> <_<

Instead of a freeze gun she get the aura speed that lucio has, only the opposite.

I think that sounds great and should be the way to go. Do it blizzard!
 
A

Anne

Member
Odrion said:
There will always be a best character for a role in a team shooter, and people will always choose them at the start. You nerf Lucio's, people go Zen, you make Zenyatta useless, people will just go Ana. I still believe the only way to fix it is by artificial means or nerf everyone until everybody's weak. The first route is just the "everybody gets a turn" balancing that plagues
many game's balancing and the second route stinks.

Nerfing the speed boost, the main thing that makes Lucio unique as a support hero, into an ability that is no longer impactful is fundamentally dumb as fuck for Blizzard to do. It's the kind of balancing principle that takes games with unique classes and homogenizes them into a dull slurry. If you want everybody to play the same go play Quake.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight.

There's a character that has basically always had a 90%+ pickrate, that is outright considered one of the best characters and sits at around 100% pickrate, that has an ability that outright invalidates other characters and strategies, that the entire game is forced to center around every single meta.

Because I want the ability bringing that character out of line to be toned down, I just want every character to play the same and I should just go play Quake? I know how meta works. I know that there will always be a top tier with a high pickrate. But because I think there's a chance that nerfing such an overwhelming ability will result in opening up other types of strategies, I should just go play Quake?

Okay, sure. That, or maybe I'm just actually right on this one and there's merit into looking into adjusting Lucio to see how Overwatch meta works without speedboost being a constant enabler. Hell, I'm normally the type that doesn't like constant patching, but Lucio has been a problem since closed beta and they outright fucked up with Zenyatta in the last patch.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Odrion said:
Maybe let's not damn the meta two weeks in? If there's any possibility that counterplay will stabilize things we won't ever get to see it.
Click to expand...

But it's been like a thing since the beginning. The only time it wasn't that way was when mercy could just rez to nullify the rushdown, but even then people still ran lucio + mercy instead.

Defense heroes being weak wasn't just a new thing after ana patch. Zen just amplified it.
 
M

maomaoIYP

Member
Ramirez said:
This is what I was telling you a while back. Solo que is a miserable experience at times because the matchmaking makes no sense! Randomly getting a 48 or low 50 on your team is an auto loss, and yet the game will do it at an alarming rate, lol.

I'm all for a Mei buff, the agile characters are so OP on console right now.
Click to expand...

I get 30s and 40s consistently when I was still in my 60s. Fucking hell.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
When you get the drop on a Hanzo from behind, and on his last blip of health he turns around and headshots you for a hundy....

can't even get mad at that. Just wish I knew how it felt. :(
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
The problem with speed boost is that it changes something very fundamental to FPS design which is the speed of character movement.Yes I think we all agree that characters should be unique and different (no taking without replacement) but characters shouldn't have abilities which throw a wrench into the more fundamental design constants that things are balanced around. Having a movement speed aura is a bad idea in the same way that having a +damage aura or CD reduction aura is. They are very brutish solutions that interfere with larger design principles being made independently.
 
O

optimus8936

Banned
What I still don't get is why no one ever asked for Lucio to be nerfed before the Zen buff, but now people are asking it like crazy. I don't understand. What changed that affected Lucio?
 
A

AnotherNils

Member
Managed to hold a team to one checkpoint and some meters on Gibraltar ranked. Naturally, they held us just a little further back the next round. I fucking hate my life.
 
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