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Overwatch |OT5| 15 Million Strong, None Are On The Payload

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W

wamberz1

Member
tmG5dKq.gif

matmanx1 said:
Isn't the hitbox change a buff to Mei as well? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?
Click to expand...
Seems like it
ZO4lVEQ.gif
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Not sorry to see Genji go. The time of Tracer has begun. And because I am actually good with her, it is my turn to be the most annoying player in the game. Muhahahaha

With Mei and Hanzo possibly entering the meta, Tracer will be even better.
 
S

Syntax

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
Boo, I just recently got the Hanzo legendary so now I'll seem like a bandwagon-er for wanting to use it.

Genji nerfs might seem overboard but they probably don't like the overall level of mobility/burst he has compared to other characters. It might be less about competitive balance per se and more about the baseline they want each character to be anchored around; Genji was probably just too far outside the harbor so to speak. Pharah trades off her aerial advantage with poor mobility, but Genji can spend most of his time airborne without a similar tradeoff. Also Blizzard normally doesn't like it when animation cancelling becomes the optimal way to play (they have a similar problem with Demon Hunters in WoW which they are trying to get rid of).

In terms of Lucio/Zenyatta, I don't expect any major changes in competitive. Discord is still superior to every other debuff in the game, let alone comparing it to Mercy. Mercy can only buff one character's damage and it means she has to forgo healing. Zenyatta can both heal and dps while using discord, and more importantly, it applies to enemy characters and not friendly characters which means you can get up to 6x the damage compared to Mercy. Their main problem is that abilities/mechanics like that are just so fundamentally good that nothing else will ever compare. An ability that makes an enemy take X% more damage from all sources is always going to be mechanically superior to an ability that buffs a friendly character's damage by X%, full stop. It doesn't matter what number you put in for X, the enemy debuff option will always be the better choice.

Similarly, Lucio's movement speed buff is always going to be mandatory in my opinion because movement speed is king in an FPS. To help illustrate this point, imagine if Lucio's movement speed aura was actually a debuff that slowed the enemy team's movement. I think we all implicitly understand why that would be an amazingly powerful and extremely frustrating ability to play against; but nothing is different just because Lucio buffs your team. It's all about the relative speed anyway, how Team A moves faster than Team B is less important than the fact that they do move faster. Overwatch is supposed to be a game where choke-points are important and more static defense characters are relevant. Lucio utterly negates that design and says, "nah, we're just gonna run past everything and blow up your healer immediately" (I would argue the extremely powerful and mobile offensive characters also hurt that design as well).

Furthermore, Lucio/Zen's ults are some of the best in the game because they prevent death and "pause" the action, thus they can serve as a counter to nearly every situation and they are offensively useful to boot. Mercy's revive is essentially a better version of Symmetra's teleporter, both of which are mechanically beneficial only if your team is dead so they cannot really be used offensively to take control points or push a payload. You can look at the MOBA scene for design analogy, but the idea is that self-revives and things of that nature don't normally change the outcome of a fight because the important part of the fight is over before they come into play.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm wondering how long until more drastic changes are made. That's assuming Blizzard tires of having Zen+Lucio mandatory comps. I have to believe they will as the PTR changes are a step in that direction. Lowering the Discord debuff's effectiveness should allow it's target to live a bit longer but it's the difference between instantly exploding and long-enough-for-my-life-to-flash-before-my-eyes exploding.

The Lucio speed boost is still too good. The number would have to be low enough as to effectively remove it from the game for any change to matter in that respect. They could try messing with the range, making it independent of his healing aura, but even then it would still work through choke points (which are the crucial bit) and when everyone is stacked behind the shields which is most of the time.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Can anyone explain to me why Genji's nerfs are supposed to render him worthless?

Not being able to dash through and damage traps seems like a reasonable change. The whole Melee+swift strike thing was a bug and should have been fixed. And not being able to quadruple jump seems reasonable, if I'm reading this right (Genj jumps off the wall after completing his wall climb, so I consider it an extra jump). You'll still triple jump and still be evasive as shit.

The only thing that is an actual hard nerf is the dragon blade going down to six seconds. But I still think that's fair. He can still chain swift strikes if he gets an elimination and his ult still charges super fast and his reflect an still be extremely useful.

Why are people saying he's suddenly garbage tier?
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Veelk said:
Can anyone explain to me why Genji's nerfs are supposed to render him worthless?

Not being able to dash through and damage traps seems like a reasonable change. The whole Melee+swift strike thing was a bug and should have been fixed. And not being able to quadruple jump seems reasonable, if I'm reading this right (Genj jumps off the wall after completing his wall climb, so I consider it an extra jump). You'll still triple jump and still be evasive as shit.

The only thing that is an actual hard nerf is the dragon blade going down to six seconds. But I still think that's fair. He can still chain swift strikes if he gets an elimination and his ult still charges super fast and his reflect an still be extremely useful.

Why are people saying he's suddenly garbage tier?
Click to expand...

He only ever had a triple jump, which will be gone. It severely hinders his mobility.
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Sn4ke_911 said:
Sombra in the new animated short?



https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4y6dvh/notes_from_aaron_kellermuselk_livestreamed/
Click to expand...

It's lit.


Who's next on the nerf train? We all know it never ends, who's the next Genji? I WOULD say Tracer but she has nothing even close to Dragonblade and she is the games mascot, I don't see a nerf for her. I think Zarya is the best carry in the game but still doesn't feel like she needs a nerf. Reaper?? Zen/Lucio again???

Or have we achieved Overwatch Nirvana?
 
V

Veelk

Banned
wamberz1 said:
tmG5dKq.gif
Click to expand...

I still feel that if Mei is going to have an area of affect ult like that, we should atleast have the opportuntiy to take out that little bastard robot. Give him a super high HP, whatever, but just make it possible to take him out.

Edit: I don't often play mei, so I went on the training ground to see how big her current blizzard is. The area difference is HUGE. It's like 30% bigger.
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
Genji's mobility wasn't really the problem although if they say triple jump was a bug then they'll go with it.

Dragonblade being nerfed is the one area that he did need a nerf in. But it's really the defelct hitbox. My rockets aren't even aiming for him and it's still bouncing back.
 
L

LucidMomentum

Member
KarmaCow said:
A little sad there I never got the chance to actually play Genji before the nerf but good, fuck Genji.
Click to expand...

Genji and Hanzo is the only characters I have not touched.

At all.

I can even play Widow well enough.

Gonna spam that "I'm trying to be a nicer person." line all the time.
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
xaosslug said:
the nerf hasn't gone live yet, all these changes are only in PTR (pub test realm) stage on PC, so there's still time! ;D

(and I agree, fuck Genji)
Click to expand...

Yea but it feels like a waste to get the timings down on the combo and what not at this point.

I also have to imagine there will be even more Genjis playing now too.
 
S

Skii

Member
Just had a game on King's Row and my whole team was absolute garbage. I doubt they even got 10 kills between them. We got steamrolled whilst my record in the game was 31/10. I just couldn't kill all 6 by myself. It was always 3-4 before I died. And no one could back me up. They would always die when they 1v1 someone. Just fucking embarrassing.

I'm giving up for the night. It's not fair that I cant play with people at a similar level to me.
 
A

AngryMoth

Member
Had a go at playing some on PC this evening. Having to run it on the lowest possible settings coupled with me having never played a competitive fps with mouse and keyboard before made for a preeetty terrible experience lol. Guess I'll have to stick to being a console scrub for now
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Vault Dweller 111 said:
It's lit.


Who's next on the nerf train? We all know it never ends, who's the next Genji? I WOULD say Tracer but she has nothing even close to Dragonblade and she is the games mascot, I don't see a nerf for her. I think Zarya is the best carry in the game but still doesn't feel like she needs a nerf. Reaper?? Zen/Lucio again???

Or have we achieved Overwatch Nirvana?
Click to expand...

pls
 
S

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
Shadder is still pretty good with Genji.

Just got Play of the Game twice.
 
S

Sianos

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
Man all I can say when I see the Hanzo hitbox is how utterly bonkers you people would have been driven by Team Fortress 2
Click to expand...

The most bonkers part of TF2 hitboxes were how they were oriented to the map and at certain diagonal angles your rectangular projectile hitbox would extend well out in front of you. Not "I'm getting headshot by an arrow that hit the space between my head and the width of my shoulder" but "I'm getting headshot by an arrow hitting a player width and a half away from me".

Even the original projectile hitboxes were less forgiving then Team Fortress 2 hitboxes. As Pharah you can't get away with just juggling feet because splash damage does so little and your rockets don't do much knockback: you have to hit those crisp directs to play her well.

Stone Ocean said:
Probably shit like Mei's Icicle not hitting when you're clearly aiming at someone's head
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

If Blizzard wants to adjust projectile hitbox size to better balance them, that's entirely reasonable. But removing them and replacing them with hitscan hitboxes creates so many problems and you end up with shenanigans where your projectile clips through enemy players.

Here are some good examples of those shenanigans. Hopefully if Blizzard finds issue with projectile hitboxes in the future, they will adjust their size rather than remove them entirely.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Mei's ult change is nice but it doesn't really fix her fundamental problems. Though with how fast she builds ult and can now go through reinhardt's shield...

Better hope you have a pharmercy when you're on attack boys.
 
E

Exploratory

Banned
Sn4ke_911 said:
You think Blizz idea was to nerf Genji so nobody plays him anymore? no, they nerfed him to balance him and make him equal strong to others.
Click to expand...

Rofl have your ever played any game ever created by Blizzard? Have you ever played Overwatch?! Do you remember post first nerf McCree?

Genji is so done man. I've never anything in a game get that many nerfs.
 
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