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Overwatch |OT6.99999997311%| Game of the Year

A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
So.

Gold ranked player.

Carried the game as widow in an unbelievable way, won with 45 elims.

Only has 10 mins on widow (so he pretty much only played her for this match) in this current season, it's pretty much bottom 5 of the heroes he played as far as game time goes, and barely played her in quick play, if anything his QP stats on widow are pretty terrible.

What do you guys think?
 
G

Greddleok

Member
Paltheos said:
One tactic I learned from a very helpful video is to not focus fire on exactly where you predict they'll be but to shake the pistol back and forth to confuse them. Obviously situational but if you're in a one-on-one fight with no way out it can make a difference.
Click to expand...

Heh, I actually meant healing the ones on my team!
 
A

Astral/H3X

Member
Antiwhippy said:
So.

Gold ranked player.

Carried the game as widow in an unbelievable way, won with 45 elims.

Only has 10 mins on widow (so he pretty much only played her for this match) in this current season, it's pretty much bottom 5 of the heroes he played as far as game time goes, and barely played her in quick play, if anything his QP stats on widow are pretty terrible.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Well, I did something *similar* a few days back. Was Watchpoint Gibraltar, attacking side, noticed the enemy perching up with Bastion and Dva, and we didn't have anyone to counter that, so I switched to Widow and got a 13 streak with gold elims. Probably would've gone higher but the match ended because I kept deleting their Bastion and Dva (who was not aware of her job in rushing me it seems). Was my first time playing as Widow.... uh, basically ever.
If that guy had CS experience and recognized a good opening for her, I wouldn't be surprised... Widow doesn't require a lot of explicitly Overwatch experience.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Actually I'm convinced that mercy is the hardest support because nobody seem to be able to play her right.

H3XAntiStyle said:
Well, I did something *similar* a few days back. Was Watchpoint Gibraltar, attacking side, noticed the enemy perching up with Bastion and Dva, and we didn't have anyone to counter that, so I switched to Widow and got a 13 streak with gold elims. Probably would've gone higher but the match ended because I kept deleting their Bastion and Dva (who was not aware of her job in rushing me it seems). Was my first time playing as Widow.... uh, basically ever.
If that guy had CS experience and recognized a good opening for her, I wouldn't be surprised... Widow doesn't require a lot of explicitly Overwatch experience.
Click to expand...

His widow QP stats were pretty terrible though.
 
A

Anne

Member
People are theorizing the nerfs to Beyblade along with things like D.Va existing is just going to make it so Ana + tanks are even dumber than before. That's already starting to take a bit of shape. Soldier isn't dumb in a way that is good at stopping that either. Hmm :T

Mei + Soldier might be a thing? Soldier/Pharah/Mercy/Ana maybe? I dunno. I wouldn't be surprised if teams just flat ran shit like Soldier/Roadhog/D.va/X Tank/Ana/X support. Hell, the EnvyUs 1/4/1 strat worked out too.

I want to be clear Reaper was good last meta into tanks, but the reasoning behind that was really more due to that fact you could continually invest a ton of resources into him rather than him being a flat counter. You can't really do that anymore, and D.Va/Soldier fuck him up too. The Mei part of those strats isn't hit as bad at least, but Idk if it's good enough across the board to be an answer.

I really think the biggest mistakes that keep this going are Ana's ult still being hilariously busted, tanks being overtuned in general, and specifically the way they are buffing D.Va.
 
C

Cappa

Banned
Skii said:
And you guys laughed when I said Reaper needed to be buffed. He's actually worse than Soldier now.

RIP Reaper.
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Why? I think people read way to much into the pro meta. You can roll through teams up to Master and not ever follow anything that the pros do.
 
A

Anne

Member
I don't think Reaper needs to be buffed. That'd just create an arms race for characters to all dump way too much damage. Would be better to deal with the tanks as is. Right now D.Va/Zarya/Roadhog all fight just as well as most DPS heroes, they just also get giant health pools, heals, and shields to go with it. I mean, even Reinhardt deals ridiculous damage between hammer, firestrike, and pin. He also has one of the best team fighting ults in the game that has few counterplay options. Why not just load up on them? lol

Also every option to counterplay tanks specifically has just been "lol huge damage dump" or "also have Reinhardt" which create more problems. Shit's silly. Between that and Ana being broke it makes perfect sense why this is going to keep happening.

Cappa said:
Why? I think people read way to much into the pro meta. You can roll through teams up to Master and not ever follow anything that the pros do.
Click to expand...

Because pro meta shows the eventual degradation of game health. In S1 solo q even in Diamond became mostly cancer comp at some point. In S2, a lot of the ladder shifted towards Ana, Zarya, Lucio, Reaper, etc, it just happened to stay 2/2/2 because it's easier to set up and play. Like, even if you are a GM Hanzo one trick god, you are at a disadvantage, working harder, and yes sometimes even losing because of metagaming. That's always been the truth. It's been proven several competitive games over, and I'm not really going to argue otherwise.

It's especially apparent too because Overwatch is at a point where the game is really heavily weighted in one direction, and if it continues in that direction it could be p bad.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Well at least blizzard is shown to be pretty willing to change things up radically.

Also fuck me met that widow again. I really should stop playing if I suspect someone who might be smurfing or aimbotting playing in the same night.
 
A

Anne

Member
To add to what I said before, Reinforce (Rogue Reinhardt player) put out a thing about their matches at OGN. https://medium.com/@re1nforce/reflecting-ogn-and-rogue-vs-envyus-3176f5f4bd2c#.51ju42m25

Basically said the meta change devastated them in scrims since they hinged on Reinhardt and more risky playmaking. In scrims they got rolled by D.Va + Roadhog, and he think sthe teams that have players ready to to use this strat will be winning in the immediate future. More on it in there.

It's nice to have clarification on why they stuck to Pharah/Genji though. They basically wanted to go all in hoping that they could just outplay Envy on dives, but Envy responded very well and punished them hard for it.

Edit: Reinforces my ideas based on what has been happenign at APEX regarding meta and hero pools not being deep enough at the top level. Reinforce admits that Rogue's hero pool is very good, but they specifically are lacking in the tank department. I agree, and it's a good trait to see him say that since he is the tank player lacking in depth atm.
 
O

Owzers

Member
Skii said:
My favourite ones are the Mercys that continue to heal in overtime when they have res. How dense do you have to be? Just hide ffs. She obviously dies first to the Genji and then everyone is forced to use ults at a massive disadvantage.
Click to expand...
A few more seasons and I'll have this down.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Also it's kinda weird that the some of the better tank busters in this game are the tanks.

Like roadhog and dva are both really good at melting tanks.
 
A

Anne

Member
Remember the theory I had on Blizz and healers? P sure a similar thing happened with tanks. There's probably some rule or philosophy that the tanks should be able to fight so that they aren't overly reliant on others to get things done. I would get that, they want every hero to be able to make plays. Nobody wants to play a tank to just deal with damage and not get to do much else. Nobody wants to feel like they can't fight if a DPS drops.

Turns out that, like healers, the original intent of the designs don't much up with the way players learned how to play the game. They started to clean that up a bit on healers, hoping they do on the tanks as well. It probably never occurred to them to ask, "What happens if people just run 3-4 of these guys?"

I personally would rather the tanks have had better mitigation, CC/anti-CC, alternative playmaking abilities rather than just damage and fighting power.
 
R

ROBOKITTYZILLA

Member
A higher damage Sombra would probably be a good counter to this rising tank meta. Giving her the ability to shred tanks at medium/close range while being able to disable, maneuver and escape could shake things up. She's way too weak right now though.

The general community consensus is leaning toward Sombra being bad and I rarely see her picked anymore. I still believe she can be strong in a fully coordinated team but I think you would be giving up too much at this point to take her over another character in the current meta.

Mei is a good counter and it seems like Zarya should work better against this meta than what we saw with Rogue. Zarya can bubble hooked targets, melt D.va and beam through Rein's shield. It didn't seem very effective in that APEX match but maybe that's because of the DPS strategy they used?

It will be interesting to see how things shape up in the coming weeks.
 
S

Skii

Member
Cappa said:
Why? I think people read way to much into the pro meta. You can roll through teams up to Master and not ever follow anything that the pros do.
Click to expand...

This isn't about the pro meta. Simple things like Dva is good and Soldier is good already have sieved down to platinum and probably lower.

But Reaper is arguably the worst offensive hero in this meta. He's never been good against offensive heroes but with all their buffs, he's now easily taken care of by Soldier/McCree/Pharah and Genji/Tracer/Sombra is all about who gets the first shot.

Reaper can't deal with tanks as well as Soldier can now. He's always in range of a hook or just a lucky headshot by Roadhog. He gets clobbered by Reinhardt and Zarya has never been an easy matchup. Dva is just straight up a bad match up now for him. Winston is the only time you'd need to bring him out.

And nanoboosted Soldier >>> nanoboosted Reaper because of the nerf.

I'm half joking about giving him a buff but in all honesty, I don't see why you'd need him. As someone who's mained Reaper, I'm going to be picking up Soldier for the break and I'll be making the switch for S3.
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
I think Sombra just needs a slightly bigger clip size and she'll be perfect. I used to think she doesn't do enough damage but once you get gud with popping in and out with a translocator on a meaty hacked health pack somewhere just out of the fray, she's a force to be reckoned with.
 
A

Anne

Member
I don't even think Reaper is that bad. There's just a list of things that got him this patch:

-every part of Beyblade was nerfed. Zarya, Lucio, Ana all ate nerfs.
-ult charge change hits his strats hard too
-D.Va being good again makes his life hell
-The alternative DPS solution is Soldier now, who actually beats Reaper and plays behind D.va/RH/Rein comp better

The major meta shifts just all add up so he can't do his job very well most of the time. He's prolly still okay on map segments where that type comp isn't the main deal?
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
No, I think we just need more DPSs that are tank busters but aren't everything busters.

Like, genji is just straight up terrible against tanks. Tracer/soldier/mccree are slight better but they can get their shit pushed in by tanks so you can't really call them anti-tank. Reaper is a tank buster but he seriously cannot go at it against three tanks, especially when one of them is dva. Pharah can generally outrange tanks but while she can deal damage, she has a really hard time finishing them off, and DVa straight up just makes her unable to do anything. Sombra honestly has the tools to be a really good tank buster, but something about her kit isn't clicking. I think it's just that hack is waaaay too difficult to get off.
 
S

Sir Griffith

Member
ROBOKITTYZILLA said:
For some reason I thought it went through the shield like DM but they do have different properties similar to how DM can't block Mei's ice beam but Rein shield can. I stand corrected!
Click to expand...

Yea, I always have to stop and think sometimes which shields block what. Winston and Symm are the only heroes that can pierce Reins shield, and melee attacks I guess
 
A

Anne

Member
How do you make something with the capability to murder tanks out of comps like these without also making it capable of murdering anything it looks at? The problem really isn't the damage (this game has too much damage as is), it's just that without ults you can't reliably deal damage to these comps. Meanwhile, D.Va + RH outputting more DPS than Soldier sometimes.

Sombra being able to bring down DM or Hook or Shield is really cool in theory, but like why bother? The timing to make a play off that is mad tight and you're just giving up having your own slot that could be a tank or Soldier or whatever.

I'd like to wrong and hope some kind of Reaper/Mei strat exists similar to what happened to 3/3, but that was still just another permutation of "lol nanoboost dump." If another type strat pops up that is just "lol sustain > pick > roll" I'm not going to be much happier :p
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
Antiwhippy said:
No, I think we just need more DPSs that are tank busters but aren't everything busters.

Like, genji is just straight up terrible against tanks. Tracer/soldier/mccree are slight better but they can get their shit pushed in by tanks so you can't really call them anti-tank. Reaper is a tank buster but he seriously cannot go at it against three tanks, especially when one of them is dva. Pharah can generally outrange tanks but while she can deal damage, she has a really hard time finishing them off, and DVa straight up just makes her unable to do anything. Sombra honestly has the tools to be a really good tank buster, but something about her kit isn't clicking. I think it's just that hack is waaaay too difficult to get off.
Click to expand...
A good adjustment to the hack would be easier to get off but doesn't last as long. And I think McCree is a tank buster if somebody is good with him. Road hog is kind of a tank buster too... We could def use another tho.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Cappa said:
Yes, I was being sarcastic :))). Im also a Mei main and have reached Diamond this season, not quite Master yet but getting there, eventually, maybe... season 3????.



The Earthen skin is the best, and with the Golden gun it just pops out. I use to main the firefighter skin, but after getting the gold gun Ive been using the Earthen skin and the golden gun just makes it soooooooo much better.
Click to expand...
Mei has so many good skins. Her default, Earthen, Yeti Hunter and Firefighter are all god tier. I was lucky enough to get the last two from boxes. I usually main Yeti Hunter though.

Oh and her voice lines are up there with the best, D.Va still reigns supreme for that though.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Anne said:
How do you make something with the capability to murder tanks out of comps like these without also making it capable of murdering anything it looks at? The problem really isn't the damage (this game has too much damage as is), it's just that without ults you can't reliably deal damage to these comps. Meanwhile, D.Va + RH outputting more DPS than Soldier sometimes.

Sombra being able to bring down DM or Hook or Shield is really cool in theory, but like why bother? The timing to make a play off that is mad tight and you're just giving up having your own slot that could be a tank or Soldier or whatever.

I'd like to wrong and hope some kind of Reaper/Mei strat exists similar to what happened to 3/3, but that was still just another permutation of "lol nanoboost dump." If another type strat pops up that is just "lol sustain > pick > roll" I'm not going to be much happier :p
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying though, give there a reason to actually make a CC utility like silence more attractive than running just more sustain and damage. It should be reliable like mei's stunning CC utility.

I guess I'm more talking about a theoretical next meta rather than the current one, but I just straight up think that they overtuned dva and soldier, while they also need to readjust roadhog because they didn't take into account that longer, more sustained fights without ult dumping makes picks infinitely more valuable.
 
xaosslug

xaosslug

Member
i'm totally open to wacky attack Symm/Torb/Bastion strats, but when they are just not getting off the ground (you plop down a teleporter behind enemy lines and it's insta-destroyed, are not able to set up a turret, etc) you gotta be equally open to switching off, bruhhhhh! -___________-
 
S

see5harp

Member
I honestly don't get people in parties of two in competitive that don't switch over to team chat. I also don't get single queue without mics either. Do ya'll anti social fuckwads like to win?
 
D

Dreavus

Member
Anne said:
How do you make something with the capability to murder tanks out of comps like these without also making it capable of murdering anything it looks at? The problem really isn't the damage (this game has too much damage as is), it's just that without ults you can't reliably deal damage to these comps. Meanwhile, D.Va + RH outputting more DPS than Soldier sometimes.

Sombra being able to bring down DM or Hook or Shield is really cool in theory, but like why bother? The timing to make a play off that is mad tight and you're just giving up having your own slot that could be a tank or Soldier or whatever.

I'd like to wrong and hope some kind of Reaper/Mei strat exists similar to what happened to 3/3, but that was still just another permutation of "lol nanoboost dump." If another type strat pops up that is just "lol sustain > pick > roll" I'm not going to be much happier :p
Click to expand...

I suppose you could play with armor a bit. The tanks are the only ones aside from Bastion and Torb armor packs who have it. Maybe give a hero that they want to be good against tanks armor piercing, or something similar.

That's the only thing I can think of. And even then, Roadhog has zero armor and some tanks don't have very much of it. You'd be disproportionately affecting D.Va with any nerfs.

TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
A good adjustment to the hack would be easier to get off but doesn't last as long. And I think McCree is a tank buster if somebody is good with him. Road hog is kind of a tank buster too... We could def use another tho.
Click to expand...

Roadhog definitely is even outside of pro level. Trying to play Winston against a good one is rough. You take every bit of shrapnel to the face.
 
xaosslug

xaosslug

Member
see5harp said:
I honestly don't get people in parties of two in competitive that don't switch over to team chat. I also don't get single queue without mics either. Do ya'll anti social fuckwads like to win?
Click to expand...

it's cute how peeps complain about this all the time, yet most don't even hop on the mic themselves - because they feel dumb talking to themselves. Why not? Maybe, the rest of the team is listening? Don't you wanna win? ;P
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Is it possible that Soldier is insanely powerful but not super impactful? The stats I've been putting out are totally nuts, but I'm winning so few games, and I really don't get it. I played some more Tracer yesterday and my stats were worse, but the team did much better. While he does kill things much faster he still does a lot of crap damage that can be healed for quick ults, he also can't really pick targets because he just has to shoot whatever is on the front lines. I know it's a dumb theory, but it's also dumb to go 55-6 with 30k damage and lose the game by quite a bit, I don't get it.
 
P

Prelude.

Member
I'm probably under 2600 now. Blizzard fucked up big time putting these trash players on platinum, S2 was a complete and utter failure. I never had teams this bad in the 30s on S1, I'm not even joking.
I just had an Ana shittalking the dps, saying he had gold damage and guess what, he switched to
yep, Junkrat
. Fucking kill me.
 
H

hesido

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
Dummy: "You cant sum up the Overwatch fanbase in one image, its too diverse"
Me:
CxylyexXUAAwArf.jpg
Click to expand...

Cool. Now I have to explain my little daughter who saw this why they didn't include her head in the photo. (Tried to scroll down but too late.)
 
S

see5harp

Member
xaosslug said:
it's cute how peeps complain about this all the time, yet most don't even hop on the mic themselves - because they feel dumb talking to themselves. Why not? Maybe, the rest of the team is listening? Don't you wanna win? ;P
Click to expand...

I'm always in chat. Someone has to talk shit to the sombra.
 
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