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Overwatch |OT6| Boop
- Thread starter ExMachina
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finalflame
Banned
Yup. My buddy who recently started playing (< lv.35) is glued to Junkrat. I told him before I comp queue with him he's gonna have to learn/get good at a more diverse roster of heroes.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Every match with attack junkrat i count as a loss until proven otherwise.
It helps lessen the pain.
It helps lessen the pain.
finalflame
Banned
Me too. It's nice to have a place to vent.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The thing is my hate is more having to have play with them.
It's gotten to the the point where I'm befriending people and forming stacks just to lessen my chances of playing with them.
Like i don't doubt that there are some very good junkrats out there, I've seen them myself, but the majority aren't and they are everywhere.
It's gotten to the the point where I'm befriending people and forming stacks just to lessen my chances of playing with them.
Like i don't doubt that there are some very good junkrats out there, I've seen them myself, but the majority aren't and they are everywhere.
finalflame
Banned
Oh, same. Enemy junkrats are 0% threatening to me unless I'm in a team full of morons who can't coordinate to counter him. But the Junkrats on my team more often than not think they're being effective when they're not.
finalflame
Banned
What's important is that we can all agree to hate him in some way.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like a junkrat on defense i usually don't mind. I'll even switch off mei to fulfill other roles if the other dude really wants to play junkrat on defense
Though what really gets me is if that junkrat is accompanied by like, a Hanzo and torb (happens way more than i would like).
First team fight and our point is taken over.
Though what really gets me is if that junkrat is accompanied by like, a Hanzo and torb (happens way more than i would like).
First team fight and our point is taken over.
Junkrat gives medals to people that don't have the mechanics to play other DPS heroes tbh. At higher elos I see less of him because the DPS players there can pick something like McCree, Tracer, Genji etc and be directly influential in fights,
Like, there are mechanics to Junkrat for sure but generally playing him correctly is just standing in the right spot on the right map and knowing when to move because something is trying to murder you. At lower Elo you don't stand in the right spot or worry about people killing you because they're dumb enough to stick their face into damage
I don't like to generalize like this but when I hear "I main x character" I generally think "oof that sucks" and when I hear "Junkrat main" I think "oof, what's your accuracy like?"
It's especially bad because this is like the worst meta ever for Junkrat because the random trash damage he puts out gets pumped into Ana's ult gauge.
I wouldn't say it's the worst ever. Ana and Zarya are why he's bad. If you nerf Ana's ult and Zarya's... everything, he'd be very good because he can shred Reinhardt's shield.Junkrat gives medals to people that don't have the mechanics to play other DPS heroes tbh. At higher elos I see less of him because the DPS players there can pick something like McCree, Tracer, Genji etc and be directly influential in fights,
Like, there are mechanics to Junkrat for sure but generally playing him correctly is just standing in the right spot on the right map and knowing when to move because something is trying to murder you. At lower Elo you don't stand in the right spot or worry about people killing you because they're dumb enough to stick their face into damage
I don't like to generalize like this but when I hear "I main x character" I generally think "oof that sucks" and when I hear "Junkrat main" I think "oof, what's your accuracy like?"
It's especially bad because this is like the worst meta ever for Junkrat because the random trash damage he puts out gets pumped into Ana's ult gauge.
Though if they ever made Bastion more viable, he'd fill that role better.
I remember Seagull talking about the Genji nerf being excessive while McCree just completely dominates again and remains untouched. Like the 76 buff did nothing to change that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You need to nerf ana's healing, not her ult charge rate to make junkrat not terrible against her. Because her burst healing is so high that any team without finishing power is going to struggle.
Which is why mei is so popular right now. You can actually make sure no one gets healed before they get picked.
Which is why mei is so popular right now. You can actually make sure no one gets healed before they get picked.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Junkrat actually takes skill. People saying you are just spamming are wrong.
If that is the case, you are spamming with almost all heroes.
Pharah? Just spamming rockets.
Soldier? Just spamming bullets.
etc.
If that is the case, you are spamming with almost all heroes.
Pharah? Just spamming rockets.
Soldier? Just spamming bullets.
etc.
blueyesdevil
Banned
Thats what you get when you listen to balancing complaints from gold league players on reddit.
Lol, you know it's different. Pharah, maybe. But Soldier spamming bullets is not the same as Junkrat. I've never been killed by a S76 shooting bullets somewhere where he will expect there will be enemies. He really has to aim at people.
finalflame
Banned
The nature of Junkrat's projectiles and kit make him have a much shallower skill curve than either of those heroes and makes him far less consistent of a DPS. Junkrat is mostly "stay out of harm and spam grenades around a corner". Yes if you know the arch of his grenades really well you can aim for direct hits, but it will never be with the same preciseness/consistency as a hitscan hero like McCree or a linear and predictable projectile like Pharah.
Yes, if you're extremely skilled at Junkrat and know how to aim his projectiles perfectly he's ok. That's not the case for 99.9% of players, and likely not the case for 99.999999999999% of players < 3200 SR.
Still, it seems most people who "main" Junkrat plain can't aim, and use that pick as a crutch. They'd be better off maining Rein.
blueyesdevil
Banned
Keep telling yourself that while you are spamming with junkrat to feel better about yourself.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah, to be fair aiming while calculating his projectile curve + travel time can be a skillful thing. People who mastered that I would say are mechanically skilled.
Thing is it's hard to say that's the case for most of the junkrats I've encountered.
Thing is it's hard to say that's the case for most of the junkrats I've encountered.
I don't like the term "spamming" to describe something, but Junkrat kind of fits that. He can't reliably aim and hit all his shots even with the most capable players on him. As a result, he just kind of lays down bombs in the general area people want to be and that gives him damage.
Like I said there is definitely skill in playing the dude, but most of it comes down to positioning and knowing when to bail. Sometimes he is going to land those clutch hits but that's a situation he's only in if forced and it's not going to hold up vs a lot of characters in back to back fights.
At low elo Junkrat isn't really played that way, people just fight with the dude. Blizzard didn't do a very good job of making it very clear how to deal with him. Low elo players get away with murder and assume they're just playing the game right and good then they get smacked around at some point and just blame their teammates. The trash ass medal system isn't helping matters.
Like I said there is definitely skill in playing the dude, but most of it comes down to positioning and knowing when to bail. Sometimes he is going to land those clutch hits but that's a situation he's only in if forced and it's not going to hold up vs a lot of characters in back to back fights.
At low elo Junkrat isn't really played that way, people just fight with the dude. Blizzard didn't do a very good job of making it very clear how to deal with him. Low elo players get away with murder and assume they're just playing the game right and good then they get smacked around at some point and just blame their teammates. The trash ass medal system isn't helping matters.
Hahaha, thanks for the heads-up! I won't set my expectations too high. I just want my golden balls for Zen
Just to be clear I'm completely over the medal system. Outside of elims and a few character specific pieces of info, the rest of it almost entirely useless.
Dealing damage isn't always useful and sometimes outright bad. Killing people on the objective very rarely matters. Standing on the objective for long periods of time is generally bad.
I get Blizzard wants people to fight over those medals and keep toxicity low, but it's actually very misleading to give Junkrat a gold damage medal at 30k or something when 10k of that damage went directly into support ults. Positive reinforcement for making very bad decisions.
Dealing damage isn't always useful and sometimes outright bad. Killing people on the objective very rarely matters. Standing on the objective for long periods of time is generally bad.
I get Blizzard wants people to fight over those medals and keep toxicity low, but it's actually very misleading to give Junkrat a gold damage medal at 30k or something when 10k of that damage went directly into support ults. Positive reinforcement for making very bad decisions.
finalflame
Banned
Uh.. if you "sleep" a mechanical suit set to self-destruct, it'll still self destruct while sleeping.
I see no balancing reason why this is needed. It's insanely hard to die to a D.Va ult anyways, unless it's being combo'd with a CC ult.
BrassDragon
Member
Yes, this ties into a larger issue that affects a lot of mechanics (medals, POTG, matchmaking etc.): the game logic simply can't recognise good plays.
When a Pharah consistently hunts down healers or a Mei splits a vanguard or a Lucio boosts the team past a choke, those are game making moments that just don't register at a mechanical level... And consequently scrubs don't value them or are even aware of them.
I appreciate how hard this is to get right but holy shit, the game misses the mark so widely.
I don't care too much about potg because I think it /usually/ at least rewards good gameplay, even if it doesn't get the actual best play every time. Yrah, sometimes people murder themselves chasing that sweet potg, but those people were going to be idiots no matter what.
I take much more beef in a system that is actively rewarding players for doing something very wrong in real, in-game time. It's going to justify shit behavior. Leaves those stats for after the game, or at least put in enough stats (read: % of damage healed or some shit) to help inform people that they aren't playing well.
The medals are trash, and there are reasons other games hide those stats until the game is already over.
I take much more beef in a system that is actively rewarding players for doing something very wrong in real, in-game time. It's going to justify shit behavior. Leaves those stats for after the game, or at least put in enough stats (read: % of damage healed or some shit) to help inform people that they aren't playing well.
The medals are trash, and there are reasons other games hide those stats until the game is already over.
It's sad how bad Mei is in Arcade. We were winning offensively pretty well then someone on defene just went Mei and we could never save it from there. Because of one hero. She can't be countered in Arcade mode on payload because she can't be countered except by like a point blank Pharah surprise and Mei's not the only person on the enemy team. Glad Arcade will actually be fun next time.
If it's sleeping, it's halting processes. Such as self destruct.
If it's sleeping, it's halting processes. Such as self destruct.
finalflame
Banned
Nah, that's a pretty big leap in logic. Also, it'll never happen.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Who here hasn't exploded while they're sleeping at least once?
TheLetdown
Member
Now we're getting to the real questions.
And yet somehow D.va's mech can destroy it by boosting.
DevilDog
Member
Feels good not getting any smug idiotic responses anymore about hating junkrat.
Have you ever seen how hard it is to play pharah if you don't hold a PhD in mathematics?
You didn't give this any thought at all did you? Soldier is nothing but a spammer? Do you know how hard it is to do accurate flicks, tracking aim and headshots?
Have you ever seen how hard it is to play pharah if you don't hold a PhD in mathematics?
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
I play pharah and soldier very well so yes I know. Of course my example is exaggerated but all I want to say is that a good junkrat takes a lot of skill. Once you reach a certain level it's not just spamming grenades anymore.
blueyesdevil
Banned
No matter what level of skill you reach with junkrat, in the end it is always just spamming grenades.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean his best use is still spamming grenades at the chokepoint really.
Astral/H3X
Member
I think I might try some more Hanzo in the future.... Was playing with a group last night, got steamrolled, and we were in the same instance with the same players. I kinda said "Fuck it", let my team know, and switched to Hanzo, and we won on Hollywood with me taking gold Elims and pulling some saving plays, something I can't say I do very regularly. I've been practicing Genji which I think may have helped out with leading my arrows. Hrm. Dunno. Don't wanna be cancer.
Also, I've had a good few times where switching to Junkrat has made a positive difference. If the enemy team is balling up with some meaty characters, it can really help to get that large splash damage to whittle down the enemy some while your main DPS finishes them off.
Also, I've had a good few times where switching to Junkrat has made a positive difference. If the enemy team is balling up with some meaty characters, it can really help to get that large splash damage to whittle down the enemy some while your main DPS finishes them off.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Why would he be at a spot where he can be spotted?
Good junkrats know where to bounce the nades.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Man, the hate is really strong.
There is a lot of tactic involved. Where to place your trap, using your bomb properly.
For example When I see a Rein charging I drop my bomb on him and he flies away from our teammates.
Then you are tactically spamming grenades, fine.
Garrett Hawke
Member
junkrat is by definition a spammer tho
that's his role
like pharah
that's his role
like pharah
divisionbyzorro
Member
There are two types of Junkrats:
1) The Junkrat on your team. This is the kid who can't aim for shit and thinks that the gold damage he's getting along with the occasional PotG from a lucky Riptire justifies his choice. These are the guys who are feeling ult charge to the enemy team and doing more harm than good.
2) The Junkrat on the enemy team. This is the pyschic who knows exactly where you're going to be at all times and has three grenades just waiting for you when you turn the corner. His traps are out in the open and yet somehow they're right on your movement path. You watch helplessly as the lemmings on your team walk straight through his corridor of death, and you hear Riptires that magically dodge bullets spin up every 45 seconds.
1) The Junkrat on your team. This is the kid who can't aim for shit and thinks that the gold damage he's getting along with the occasional PotG from a lucky Riptire justifies his choice. These are the guys who are feeling ult charge to the enemy team and doing more harm than good.
2) The Junkrat on the enemy team. This is the pyschic who knows exactly where you're going to be at all times and has three grenades just waiting for you when you turn the corner. His traps are out in the open and yet somehow they're right on your movement path. You watch helplessly as the lemmings on your team walk straight through his corridor of death, and you hear Riptires that magically dodge bullets spin up every 45 seconds.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Thank you. Well explained.
blueyesdevil
Banned
Not hating just stating facts. Also what you say about his other abilities is completely correct and will distinguish the good from the bad junkrats. But his primary fire is still just spamming bombs.
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