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Overwatch |OT6| Boop

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In general things like "Just play well, you will climb in SR!" are kinda stupid to say. No matter how well you play means nothing if rest 5 can't get job done in TEAM game. There is limit to how much you can carry if you aren't actually pro level of player in your skill, at which point you should get hired to play in pro teams.

SR is tied to performance of all and very little to performance of you. Matchmaking RNG plays a lot and heavily into your SR.

Every single player who is regarded as a top player is ranked as a top player. (I know you mentioned that pros are different But not a SINGLE one had RNG go against them?)

Every person I play with, I have never once thought "Ranked WAY to high/low"

Personally: S1 placement at 50, played a ton, got better at the game, at one point got to 67, but settled in the low 60's which is where I belonged.

S2 placed at 2800 (54) season high 3385 (67) I am a better player now and am settling around mid 60's this time around.

Many people have tanked ranked and then beaten 'Elo hell' to get back up.

Where is the evidence that RNG is tied heavily to rank? The furthest I would go is that you could go on a nice streak that has some amount of luck attached to it. But that evens out (me getting to 67 but dropping back down is an example of this).
 

Chorazin

Member
In general things like "Just play well, you will climb in SR!" are kinda stupid to say. No matter how well you play means nothing if rest 5 can't get job done in TEAM game. There is limit to how much you can carry if you aren't actually pro level of player in your skill, at which point you should get hired to play in pro teams.

SR is tied to performance of all and very little to performance of you. Matchmaking RNG plays a lot and heavily into your SR.

THANK YOU! I'm definitely not pro, but I'm usually gold or silver in most categories. It's so frustrating, and it doesn't help that no one uses micss.
 

1871

Member
The likelihood that the opponent has people who hold others back is exactly the same as your own team.

Stop rationalizing your sentiment that you're worth more than your rank. You are where you are for a reason. Play more.
 

cyborg009

Banned
I was 2 SR from 2700 then I lost like like 20 games and now I'm down at 2415.... what a mess.

fudge
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Fifth box, nothing Halloween above blue, already got a dupe victory pose.

I know it's only day 2, and this may sound a little hysterical, but this event is probably the worst thing on Earth.

OR an Ana.

Lol people still trying to push the idea that you can carry a team of morons to victory.
 
So the ARG countdown supposedly ends October 17th.
Halloween event ends November 1.
Blizzcon is Nov 4-5.
Competitive season 2 ends Nov 17th.

So my guess is - Sombra is announced and goes on to PTR when the countdown ends. She'll probably go live before the Halloween event ends, depending on balance fixes.

Blizzcon they announce a new map/mode/more skins plus a new major balance patch (fixing Symmetra, etc.) and probably a new short. All the patch stuff goes on PTR around Blizzcon, but doesn't go live until after season 2 ends - new map and skins will be added then too.

In December they announce season 3's start date plus any changes to the comp format, a Christmas event, and probably start an ARG for the next character, which probably won't come until January.

That sound about right for Overwatch through the end of the year?

What is this. Second game today that gave me <10SR from a win <.<

I had a win give me 2 SR once. Felt like a kick in the gut. It probably happened because we absolutely destroyed the other team, but still.
 

Mendrox

Member
23 leavers/trolls in a row?

2 matches were I have to say that we were just outmatched, but that happens is okay and I know that.

13 matches with someone leaving after a minute (PC crash or something else or just left and never came back)

5 matches with Bastion and Torb on KOTH even though I asked them politely to change. Answer "No ***k you" or "I read on reddit that works" or blatant nothing to say to us

3 matches were I just couldn't carry shit, because someone had to rush in alone always and didn't hear anything.

There is just so much that you can do.

Edit: It's also not like I blame my teammates, except when they start to insult everyone even though everybody suggest changing things up or having a plan. These people are the worst. I gladly fill in any roll that is still needed (Zarya/Rhein, Lucio/Ana, Soldier/Dva or even anything else like Symmetra if somebody needs that). Just a really really bad day, never went so low and it's really frustrating.
 
Lucio is a pretty good choice too. Though I think a Reinhardt and Ana duo can carry a team.
key word here; avoid relying on things like that in competitive. there's little to no chance of having the coordination to pull off a nanoboost push with reinhardt. thats why easy, low coordination required shit like zarya and lucio will dominate solo queue.
 
Well let's not just rip the guy. We don't even know if that's him.

If it is, then maybe we can offer some suggestions to help him out. Anyone who wants to legitimately improve and not just blame teammates like others on this forum is alright in my book.
But if that is him, there is way in hell he should be complaining about his teammates. That's unexceptable with those stats.

I'm just going to say that if he doesn't respond to say it's not him, I'm gonna assume it is him.
 

LiK

Member
Splurged on a 24 pack and got Junk and Mercy and a bunch of other skins. Yeesh, what a change in luck. I'll play and hope for Roadhog and Ana and then buy the rest with coins.
 
ana's terrible for carrying. better off playing lucio.

I've never been able to carry as Lucio - you can only do so much and if your teammates spread out too thin you can't do shit.

The most effective I've been at "carrying" has been with 76, D.Va, or Zarya. Occasionally Reaper if the enemy team goes for a multi-tank setup.
 

HiiiLife

Member
Well let's not just rip the guy. We don't even know if that's him.

If it is, then maybe we can offer some suggestions to help him out. Anyone who wants to legitimately improve and not just blame teammates like others on this forum is alright in my book.

Well I've been sitting in the 2700-2800 pool all season and haven't moved so anybody needs advice it's me. It's platinum hell lol.

But if that is him, there is way in hell he should be complaining about his teammates. That's unexceptable with those stats.

I'm just going to say that if he doesn't respond to say it's not him, I'm gonna assume it is him.

His GAF account says it so. I guess.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Every single player who is regarded as a top player is ranked as a top player. (I know you mentioned that pros are different But not a SINGLE one had RNG go against them?)

Every person I play with, I have never once thought "Ranked WAY to high/low"

Personally: S1 placement at 50, played a ton, got better at the game, at one point got to 67, but settled in the low 60's which is where I belonged.

S2 placed at 2800 (54) season high 3385 (67) I am a better player now and am settling around mid 60's this time around.

Many people have tanked ranked and then beaten 'Elo hell' to get back up.

Where is the evidence that RNG is tied heavily to rank? The furthest I would go is that you could go on a nice streak that has some amount of luck attached to it. But that evens out (me getting to 67 but dropping back down is an example of this).

How you know you belonged in low 60's or in 60's at all? Just because you managed to maintain that rank and didn't get long rolfstomp trains that utterly destroy ones SR?

By that logic I don't belong in low 60's where I was for weeks before having insane losing streak that nuked me to low 40's. This without any meaningful chance in MY level of play. Also hard to make argument of "Well duh, level of players went up A LOT!" when you can tell that players you are among now are not even close to skill of those in low 60's.

In Season 2 I got somewhat unlucky in placements and got few games where got rolfstomped hard so got placed to low 2000's. Over next week or so and with somewhat ease climbed into 2500's. Maintained it for over a week. Then got long and hard losing streak nuking me into 2100's. Last night I was able to creep over 2300, but today already game is pushing me back down.

Yes one can and will keep improving as a player, but as long your SR is tied directly to performance of whole team and to end result of match you are at mercy of MM RNG. I can heal my tits off and do my damnest to keep everyone alive, but if rest 5 aren't performing at level X then you are going to go down in SR.
 

ramyeon

Member
50 pack didn't even give me Junkenstein or Roadhog or Mercy. Stupid bad luck.
Same for me. Got Reaper twice. The boxes definitely feel less generous with rare drops this time around. Maybe they tweaked the drop rate since you can buy them now?

Ended up spending most of my coins getting all the skins I missed.
 
2 matches were I have to say that we were just outmatched, but that happens is okay and I know that.

13 matches with someone leaving after a minute (PC crash or something else or just left and never came back)

5 matches with Bastion and Torb on KOTH even though I asked them politely to change. Answer "No ***k you" or "I read on reddit that works" or blatant nothing to say to us

3 matches were I just couldn't carry shit, because someone had to rush in alone always and didn't hear anything.

There is just so much that you can do.

Edit: It's also not like I blame my teammates, except when they start to insult everyone even though everybody suggest changing things up or having a plan. These people are the worst. I gladly fill in any roll that is still needed (Zarya/Rhein, Lucio/Ana, Soldier/Dva or even anything else like Symmetra if somebody needs that). Just a really really bad day, never went so low and it's really frustrating.

Assuming these stats are right. You just need to understand that this is historically bad luck. The fact that 13 people left in 23 games and EVERY SINGLE one happened to be on you team? Especially since the odds are always better that the other team will have a leaver (assuming you personally never leave). That's just insane.

All I can say is that after that awful streak of luck, you are now a much better player than people you are ranked with and should move up quickly.
 

LiK

Member
Same for me. Got Reaper twice. The boxes definitely feel less generous with rare drops this time around. Maybe they tweaked the drop rate since you can buy them now?

Ended up spending most of my coins getting all the skins I missed.

Nah, I watched a YouTuber open his pack and he got most skins in the like first 30 boxes. He was really lucky and actually regretted buying 200 lol
 
Ult economy is fine lol. Losing ult charge on death would be terrible for this game and make everything worse.

This game is meant to revolve around ults. Saying otherwise is against what the game was built for.

The game was also meant to revolve around heavy hero swapping and team building based on roles. Both of these concepts didn't survive release with regards to their intended forms. The implementation of the one hero limit, while stopping the double winston, tracer, lucio silliness, puts a hard limit on creative drafting. And most matches are mirror matchups with same small hero pool facing each other regularly.

You look in this thread and other places around where the Overwatch community palavers and you see the same kind of frustrations over and over. A lot of frustration on what their team is doing and they did X and got this number of medals but lost anyway and so on. The root cause of this is that a huge chunk of the game is big blobby team fights in the same exact chokepoints where the end result is overly dependent on how everyone's Q ability shakes out. This obfuscates a lot of personal skill and impact. If people lost ult charge on death (the exact amount of charge would be a balancing point; it wouldn't necessarily have to be the entire charge) then you'd be able to heighten your own team impact by staying alive longer and thus get more ults AND by assassinating problematic characters you deny the enemy team ults. This eases the burden on playing much of the other cast. Junkrat would no longer have the "junk damage" problem of feeding support ults and even zarya charge if a follow up dive after he softened them killed their ult meter. Widowmaker wouldn't have to go full Jude Law at Enemy of the Gates everygame. She could just focus on taking calm shots at enemy supports and would have enough of an impact. The same way in TF2 a struggling sniper can still save the day by getting a good bodyshot on a charged medic despite spending much of the match getting stabbed by spies. Increasing the capacity of solo impact, believe it or not, makes the teamplay healthier in the long run.

You're making A LOT of assumptions on how Blizz work. I wager they put in way, way, way more work into trying to balance the game than you think. They most certainly experiment with all kinds of changes behind the scenes that we will never know. I know people like to make fun of developers, but it's not as easy as "shuffling around numbers" -- Blizz knows this, they're not idiots. But it's a fine balance, and making huge changes like you propose could have severe consequences.

Well the thing is, is that we don't know either way. Blizzard's approach is very much a walled garden style of development. They can be open about their reasoning in some things and other times they can be unusually coy about things that could simply be shared. A recent example is their slip on their thoughts on Zarya. In the community forums and things she's a big talking point in balance discussion and a constant presence in pro games, but Blizzards actual metrics show that she isn't popular enough for them to be focused on her. That one little statement gave a huge window into their balancing reasoning.

And yes while it is making assumptions I would argue that you can still make educated assumptions based on the stuff that has happened like these little windows and just from what they've done. One example is culling of animation canceling tricks from the game. Some tricks that got discovered like Widow's momentum boost from hookshot or using Hanzo's scatter arrow as a single target nuke were kept in and there are even hint tooltips for em. Other stuff like Torb using the weapon switch trick to build his turrent faster got axed completely despite Torb being considered a weak character. Lots of people were completely flabbergasted by this stealth nerf but by examining their statements from the similar change in removing the quick scope from widow you can get an insight into their balance process. Torb animation canceling was not removed out of wanting to decrease the power of Torb, but because Blizzard doesn't want ANY mechanic that is hidden and incapable of being discovered naturally in gameplay. If you have to look up a youtube video on how to do something they don't want it. And when you look at the evidence provided all throughout the game you see this design philosophy everywhere. Pharah for instance doesn't rocket jump like a conventional Quake character. Her mobility options are built into her spells. They don't want people to have to learn how to pogo rollout like in TF2. Everything to learn is suppose to come from playing the game from what they explicitly give you.

You see this strong emphasis on clarity in other aspects of Overwatch as well. All the numbers involved are simple easy baby math. Lots of multiples of 5, things just flatly stack on each other, and the big kicker the guaranteed ult charge you get from doing stuff and some for not doing stuff. Ult charge from healing. Ult charge from damage, Ult charge trickling in from sitting back and relaxing.

Now after this long winded intro springing off of your point. Here is the balance problem as I see it from what Blizzard has presented as their design goals as evidenced by stuff that's in the game.

Blizzard wants a simple intuitive game that you learn by doing, preferably with little to no outside help with some "secret" mechanics that they share with you through a built in tips system.

The problem? The games simplicity and directness has created an unintentional complexity by making the game un-intuitive as FUCK.

How is it expressed? A multitude of ways but in general, you don't have any true tempo control over the game and shooting at people UNLESS YOU KNOW YOU CAN KILL THEM is bad... in an fps game about shooting people.

The Ana issue exemplifies this the most. Attack characters build charge doing damage. Supports build charge healing damage. If you want to prevent supports from building charge you have to not do damage that they can heal either by not attacking at all or by immediately killing the person as quickly as possible so they aren't used as resource for supports to farm off of. The team that is most efficient at "farming" has the ult advantage that is then used to pressure. The ana deathballs exploit this process the most. Ana can attack and heal with ease and thus has two avenues of building charge. The tanks are bulky enough to withstand chip damage and be used for the Ana to farm off of. The tanks lower damage potential is mitigated by nanaboost. This whole process is also inevitable because ult charge is inevitable. How teams outplay each other is based around who is more efficient at reaching the critical mass of ult charge.

Here are some examples of what this does and how it makes the game un-intuitive especially as an fps

- People are frustrated and confused on how they lose games. They'll lash out easily on things like team comp and not understand the extent of their own impact because the medal system is poor feedback to how the game is actually played.

- Huge swaths of the map are unused. Everyone is at the same choke point farming not unlike a moba to be honest.

- Entire character roles and playstyles can't function. Soldiers whittling dps style can't compete with burst oriented styles like McCree because whittling reliable damage is a liability. Also, burst oriented styles but through indirect zoning like Junkrat are ALSO a liability because while it does more damage it doesn't have reliable follow up for completing the kill. This hampers character diversity both in the current roster and future heroes.

Now here's how ult charged dropped on death would help.

* The person you have the most control over in online games is...yourself. If you can make solo plays and come out alive you control the tempo of your own game because you maintain your own ult charge and deny others. As opposed to BEING controlled by the tempo of however the choke point farm fest settles out.

* Because of the higher value gained in killing an enemy, spreading out has benefits both offensively and defensively. It has benefits defensively to spread out to avoid a mass loss of ult charge from big cc's like black hole and it benefits offensively to lurk in some other place to then emerge for a high value pick off or good trade. For instance, maybe there will be a purpose to the hotel area in hollywood instead of everyone just wiggling in front of the archway and security room.

* Character optimization demands are both softened and utility can be emphasized more. In a game system where people lose ult charge on death, a character like soldier who has several tools in his kit to keep himself alive has a different way to market his skills compared to McCree who is less survivable despite having a lower capacity for damage. Meaning you'll see more Tac Visors as opposed to high noons in a ult dropping system. Zoning actually has a purpose. Buttering people up with Junkrat spam means you can take more dives on defense to finish them off with good trades because you deny them ult charge. His tire pickoffs have stronger value as well. This benefits him more than any number shuffling to his ult like what occurred in the recent patch.

I've been pecking at this post while I've been doing other stuff so I hope it's not too rambling or too long or too late even. But I do firmly believe that a change to the ult economy cuts through the gordian knot of Overwatch's balancing problems.
 
How you know you belonged in low 60's or in 60's at all? Just because you managed to maintain that rank and didn't get long rolfstomp trains that utterly destroy ones SR?

By that logic I don't belong in low 60's where I was for weeks before having insane losing streak that nuked me to low 40's. This without any meaningful chance in MY level of play. Also hard to make argument of "Well duh, level of players went up A LOT!" when you can tell that players you are among now are not even close to skill of those in low 60's.

In Season 2 I got somewhat unlucky in placements and got few games where got rolfstomped hard so got placed to low 2000's. Over next week or so and with somewhat ease climbed into 2500's. Maintained it for over a week. Then got long and hard losing streak nuking me into 2100's. Last night I was able to creep over 2300, but today already game is pushing me back down.

Yes one can and will keep improving as a player, but as long your SR is tied directly to performance of whole team and to end result of match you are at mercy of MM RNG. I can heal my tits off and do my damnest to keep everyone alive, but if rest 5 aren't performing at level X then you are going to go down in SR.

I went from 50->48->63->49->67->61

The difference is that when I have those 'bad luck' streaks I can pull myself back up (all solo by the way, most of the drop from 67 to 61 was with teammates). Everyone is gonna have a bad session or two. You will also have a good sessions that you need to take advantage of.

And if you legitimately, 100% believe that you are the best player in the game and belong way higher than all of the noobs you are matched up with, then don't play a damn healer.
 
Splurged on a 24 pack and got Junk and Mercy and a bunch of other skins. Yeesh, what a change in luck. I'll play and hope for Roadhog and Ana and then buy the rest with coins.

I jus want the reaper and hog skin as those are 2 of my fav heros.

I've had abysmal luck with loot boxes since purchasing the game. It's early so I'm not stressin it, but on the last day if I haven't gotten them I'll maybe buy some boxes.

I jus hate the idea of spending money on based rng.
 

LiK

Member
Holy shit, in the practice range to adjust my sensitivity based on new aiming and I understand it better now. Feels much smoother and McCree plays so much better.

Wait... he bought 200 boxes??

Yea, he makes money off OW videos so no big deal for him.
 

Mendrox

Member
Assuming these stats are right. You just need to understand that this is historically bad luck. The fact that 13 people left in 23 games and EVERY SINGLE one happened to be on you team? Especially since the odds are always better that the other team will have a leaver (assuming you personally never leave). That's just insane.

All I can say is that after that awful streak of luck, you are now a much better player than people you are ranked with and should move up quickly.

Yeah I start to win again now. The hate makes me strong. Really bad luck today. Welp.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Stop rationalizing your sentiment that you're worth more than your rank. You are where you are for a reason. Play more.

That reason would be nice to know, especially when you gain rank X with somewhat ease and maintain it for 1+ weeks before game nukes you to Y. There is zero feedback on why maintaining level of play suddenly means you are e.g. rank 40 material instead of rank 58 that you were for weeks.

And if you legitimately, 100% believe that you are the best player in the game and belong way higher than all of the noobs you are matched up with, then don't play a damn healer.

Issue of its own with OW Ranked imo.

"Want to climb and/or maintain rank? DO NOT play support and if you have to tank ONLY play Zarya!"

That makes whole ranked system feel flawed because system punishes you if you like to play "sub-optimal" roles when it comes to climb and maintaining. I love playing Mercy, I find Zarya to be okay fun and DPS in general I find very boring in OW. In order to climb I guess I need to go full time Zarya/Cree/Reaper.

Also nice jab at me there with that "And if you legitimately, 100% believe that you are the best player in the game...." line even when you know I never claimed such thing or think such thing about myself.
 
It is, yeah.

I've never claimed to be pro, and I already know I'm not as good as most of you guys. But believe me or not I'm usually at the top in my teams which says a lot about who I'm matched with. &#128533;
I'm on mobile for a bit but I'd be happy to give some tips when I get back to a computer. Maybe someone else will in the meantime.

Quickly though: having lots of medals playing a DPS character who also heals means very little regarding your performance compared to your teammates.
 

Azoor

Member
key word here; avoid relying on things like that in competitive. there's little to no chance of having the coordination to pull off a nanoboost push with reinhardt. thats why easy, low coordination required shit like zarya and lucio will dominate solo queue.

Oh I wasnt talking about solo queue, I was talking about two people playing together.

My solo queue option is Lucio.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I went from 50->48->63->49->67->61

The difference is that when I have those 'bad luck' streaks I can pull myself back up (all solo by the way, most of the drop from 67 to 61 was with teammates). Everyone is gonna have a bad session or two. You will also have a good sessions that you need to take advantage of.

And if you legitimately, 100% believe that you are the best player in the game and belong way higher than all of the noobs you are matched up with, then don't play a damn healer.

I climbed being mostly a healer main this season.

Fell a bit last night but being a healer isn't that insurmountable.
 
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