Support NeoGAF

[Chance]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

 

[LucidMomentum]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

In a game where survivability is key and picking off supports takes priority, the less mobile and less survivable supports are gonna go down hard.

Also when you see the average player ignore their supports and keeping them alive, it gets worse.

 

[optimus8936]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

I think she was mainly used for two reasons:

-Pharah

-lots and lots and lots of rezzes

And both of those are pretty much gone, so not much reason to use her at that level. And Ana has higher healing rates and pros generally have great aim, so Ana is a better single target healer at that level, plus she provides so much more than Mercy.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Gosugamers weekly is a weird one to take a measure of though. Not a lot of top tier teams playing because they're busy elsewhere.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

Well she can't really do damage. That's a huge problem when Lucio, Zen and Ana can.

The really good thing about Mercy is her ult but even that gets outshined.

 

[AnotherNils]

Yes. It's all based on your hidden MMR, not your rank. I played with and against plenty of people who were higher rank than me.

This makes no fucking sense to me

 

[Nimby]

Gosugamers weekly is a weird one to take a measure of though. Not a lot of top tier teams playing because they're busy elsewhere.

I think it's counting the Lenovo Cup too. Some high ranked EU teams there. Then there's the ELeague later this week.

 

[NimbusD]

Yeah, either reduce the cool-down on her grappling hook, or let her use it as a stun on someone who gets in her face. Or both.

Yeah that's been my thought. Her cool down for the trapping hook is a relic of her days of dominance.honestly I don't think snipers are a good mechanic for this game, not ones that can one shot you. It just feels too cheap for a game where one teammate being down can cost you the battle and theres few good counters to a really great sniper especially if the character is too powerful.

So I've been thinking that they should just keep her damage crap, but make her supernaturally mobile and either give her spider better damage or a slowing effect of some sort. make her a super mobile nuisance but not someone who can murder half a team with barely moving. So like a long range tracer. still crazy deadly or hard to deal with in the right hands.

 

[optimus8936]

Gosugamers weekly is a weird one to take a measure of though. Not a lot of top tier teams playing because they're busy elsewhere.

There's a few of them. Aren't Reunited and Misfits considered pretty high level teams? And it seems like NiP is rising because of 3/3. But I agree, it's too early to tell. Wait till teams like Envy, Fnatic, NRG, etc. start playing again.

Speaking of tourneys, saw an ad on TV for the upcoming Overwatch Open. Seems like the pro scene is really starting to break through.

This makes no fucking sense to me

How so?

 

[Antiwhippy]

I think it's counting the Lenovo Cup too. Some high ranked EU teams there. Then there's the ELeague later this week.

Ah alright, if it's counting the lenovo cup than fair enough.

 

[Kuro]

got d/c during placement. counted as 4 losses got ranked at 2400 i was a rank 65+ player last season gg fuck this game will wait until next season im not going to try climbing in low rank hell

 

[Jellie]

That's 3 duo queue games in a row put up against a 4 man of top 50s with a team average of 200-400 higher than us.

Spoiler

why couldn't we be on their team for once

 

[AnotherNils]

There's a few of them. Aren't Reunited and Misfits considered pretty high level teams? And it seems like NiP is rising because of 3/3. But I agree, it's too early to tell. Wait till teams like Envy, Fnatic, NRG, etc. start playing again.

Speaking of tourneys, saw an ad on TV for the upcoming Overwatch Open. Seems like the pro scene is really starting to break through.

How so?

Top 500 is a competitive rank. It should apply to the people with the top skill rank earned in competitive

 

[Alucrid]

ana is probably becoming my favorite healer now

 

[optimus8936]

got d/c during placement. counted as 4 losses got ranked at 2400 i was a rank 65+ player last season gg fuck this game will wait until next season im not going to try climbing in low rank hell

Lmao seriously? You're giving up without even trying? If you don't at least try, next season will take this season into account and see you're a gold player and will put you around the same, so have fun in the future!

People need to get this low rank hell stuff out of their head because there are still plenty of shitty players at Diamond rank. Unless you're below rank 1500, gtfo with this low rank hell stuff because they have the true hell.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Picks from last weeks Gosugamers tournament:

Lucio       - 94.02%
Zarya       - 78.98%
Reinhardt   - 65.64%
Ana         - 57.37%
Zenyatta    - 47.28%
Roadhog     - 45.83%
Winston     - 45.06%
Tracer      - 43.21%
Reaper      - 33.98%
Genji       - 32.75%
McCree      - 25.26%
Hanzo       - 7.99%
Mercy       - 5.20%
Mei         - 4.56%
D.Va        - 3.59%
Pharah      - 2.73%
Torbjorn    - 2.64%
Soldier: 76 - 1.65%
Junkrat     - 1.58%
Widowmaker  - 1.04%
Bastion     - 0.65%
Symmetra    - 0.00%

I'm guessing new content for October, and Sombra around Halloween and Blizzcon.

But no guys Symm's in a fine place balance wise every character has their niche and I think people are really underestimating ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH


More generally, half the cast being at <10% pickrate is not great.

 

[optimus8936]

Top 500 is a competitive rank. It should apply to the people with the top skill rank earned in competitive

What if you got rank 70+ because you played with 5 far better players? Do you still deserve top 500 even though you're not actually at that high of a level? If you are worthy of top 500, there is no reason why the game should have to wait until you're high enough rank. If you are top 500 material, you should get it no matter if you're rank 65 or rank 80.

Plus, top 500 is more about individual skill while your competitive rank is more about how well you work with a team. They're really two separate things.

 

[ISOM]

Picks from last weeks Gosugamers tournament:

Lucio       - 94.02%
Zarya       - 78.98%
Reinhardt   - 65.64%
Ana         - 57.37%
Zenyatta    - 47.28%
Roadhog     - 45.83%
Winston     - 45.06%
Tracer      - 43.21%
Reaper      - 33.98%
Genji       - 32.75%
McCree      - 25.26%
Hanzo       - 7.99%
Mercy       - 5.20%
Mei         - 4.56%
D.Va        - 3.59%
Pharah      - 2.73%
Torbjorn    - 2.64%
Soldier: 76 - 1.65%
Junkrat     - 1.58%
Widowmaker  - 1.04%
Bastion     - 0.65%
Symmetra    - 0.00%

I'm guessing new content for October, and Sombra around Halloween and Blizzcon.

I'm guessing Lucio is still picked so high for his aoe healing.

 

[wild wild rice]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

Come chill with the casuals! I see and play Mercy all the time.

 

[optimus8936]

More generally, half the cast being at <10% pickrate is not great.

Eh, some heroes will just never be picked highly and be meant for pubs. Bastion, Symm, and Torb are prime examples of this. They are just too easy to counter. With Genji in the picture still, Bastion is meh, Torb is just easy to deal with, and Winston is highly picked, so no reason to pick Symm. Those 3 will probably have a low pick rate for eternity. All the others can be compensated in some way though(not like they all need buffs, like Junk, Pharah, Soldier, Hanzo, or Mei.)

Also, Symm and Torb are worthless against 3/3. There turrets mean nothing against tanks.

 

[TheLetdown]

I'm really saddened that Mercy sees so little play

Another factor is the fact that she is just plain fucking punishing to play.

She's a priority target. Spike damage present in the game causes her to drop faster than even good players can react, much less the players you usually get. She gets rage thrown her way for when things don't go according to keikaku (see current Bastion rage video (keikaku means plan.)) And, in general, she needs to damage buff a decent amount of the time to be useful, which cuts into the stats that are tracked and present in the endgame screen.

To be honest, I'm sad Mercy sees any play, because I know the misery that poor soul playing her needs to deal with.

#salute the Mercy mains. But for real, #damageboost instead of healbotting the full health hero, please.

 

[optimus8936]

I'm curious to see what the character pick rates are in the regular game. Curious to see who gets picked mostly in pub play. I know Overbuff has this, but those pick rate stats have never changed since the game launched so it's probably not worth referencing. Like seriously, overbuff says Ana has a 0.03 pick rate and Zen has a ~2% pick rate. I don't buy those stats for a minute. Especially Zen.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Also pull out your pistol from time to time.

Eh whatever though, I'm not the biggest fan of mercy, both to play as and to have on the team.

 

[xaosslug]

Picks from last weeks Gosugamers tournament:

Lucio       - 94.02%
Zarya       - 78.98%
Reinhardt   - 65.64%
Ana         - 57.37%
Zenyatta    - 47.28%
Roadhog     - 45.83%
Winston     - 45.06%
Tracer      - 43.21%
Reaper      - 33.98%
Genji       - 32.75%
McCree      - 25.26%
Hanzo       - 7.99%
Mercy       - 5.20%
Mei         - 4.56%
D.Va        - 3.59%
Pharah      - 2.73%
Torbjorn    - 2.64%
Soldier: 76 - 1.65%
Junkrat     - 1.58%
Widowmaker  - 1.04%
Bastion     - 0.65%
Symmetra    - 0.00%

I'm guessing new content for October, and Sombra around Halloween and Blizzcon.

D.Va under Mercy and Mei, but yeah... let's nerf her! >_>

and Blizz doesn't give a single fuck that that Symm's not used at all. I mean if 'we're buffing Mei because she doesn't see much comp play...' is true where da Symm buff at, yo??

 

[komaruR]

Well shit... I learned something today.

Yes. It's all based on your hidden MMR, not your rank. I played with and against plenty of people who were higher rank than me.

Wait, are you saying you could be 70 and a top 500, and have someone else be a 71, and NOT be top 500?

Not true about season 1. I got top 500 at rank 72, and my highest was 73. I think top 500 was thrown out once you got to rank 70 or so. So it's somewhat the same.

Well, realize that (for PSN), Top 500, started at Rank 76 in season 1. However, in Season 2, Top 500 has started around 3500, which blizz says is the equivalent to level 70.

So something didn't transfer over right.

was it top 500 for the region in s1 too tho? and for region, means US/EU/AUS etc or east/west/central us?

 

[optimus8936]

was it top 500 for the region in s1 too tho? and for region, means US/EU/AUS etc or east/west/central us?

Yeah it's always been region based. Don't know if it splits up the US into multiple regions though.

 

[Wyndstryker]

D.Va under Mercy and Mei, but yeah... let's nerf her! >_>

and Blizz doesn't give a single fuck that that Symm's not used at all. I mean if 'we're buffing Mei because she doesn't see much comp play...' is true where da Symm buff at, yo??

Cause Blizzard thinks we're all playing Sym wrong.

 

[Azoor]

As a Mercy Main (yes we exist believe it or not), I think Mercy is best when she is behind a tank that can provide her with safety, which is easier said than done. I found that despite healing is fun as Mercy, her survivability just sucks.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Eh, some heroes will just never be picked highly and be meant for pubs. Bastion, Symm, and Torb are prime examples of this. They are just too easy to counter. With Genji in the picture still, Bastion is meh, Torb is just easy to deal with, and Winston is highly picked, so no reason to pick Symm. Those 3 will probably have a low pick rate for eternity. All the others can be compensated in some way though(not like they all need buffs, like Junk, Pharah, Soldier, Hanzo, or Mei.)

Also, Symm and Torb are worthless against 3/3. There turrets mean nothing against tanks.

Well, if you've got heroes that are essentially wholly vestigial, doesn't it make sense to try and... I dunno, fix them? I'm not saying it'd be an easy tweak, but why leave so many characters in permanent unviability?

D.Va under Mercy and Mei, but yeah... let's nerf her! >_>

and Blizz doesn't give a single fuck that that Symm's not used at all. I mean if 'we're buffing Mei because she doesn't see much comp play...' is true where da Symm buff at, yo??

I'm kind of convinced that somehow nobody at Blizzard has actually played Symmetra.

 

[optimus8936]

Cause Blizzard thinks we're all playing Sym wrong.

I mean, if they say we are playing her wrong, then we probably are, but they just failed at actually designing her around that and that led to her being better in other areas. If they want her to be an intel character, they need to change something huge because she just can't work like that. Especially since not everyone will be on mic to communicate this "intel".

 

[AnotherNils]

What if you got rank 70+ because you played with 5 far better players? Do you still deserve top 500 even though you're not actually at that high of a level? If you are worthy of top 500, there is no reason why the game should have to wait until you're high enough rank. If you are top 500 material, you should get it no matter if you're rank 65 or rank 80.

Plus, top 500 is more about individual skill while your competitive rank is more about how well you work with a team. They're really two separate things.

Of course it should wait. If you're so good than you should have no trouble getting into the top ranks. You're crowning people based on their quick play performance in a competitive mode. If that's the case why make them play competitive at all?

They correct for groups though. And your hidden mmr suffers from the same flaw - you can earn it playing in a group.

If Top 500 is not a competitive rank then they should say so.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I mean, if they say we are playing her wrong, then we probably are, but they just failed at actually designing her around that and that led to her being better in other areas. If they want her to be an intel character, they need to change something huge because she just can't work like that. Especially since not everyone will be on mic to communicate this "intel".

They think she's viable on offense, man.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Problem is that right now, with the maps and modes we have, if you don't have a character that can contribute in a team fight you're screwed as a team.

I can see the intel aspect working in a mode with multiple control points. We don't have that though.

 

[optimus8936]

Of course it should wait. If you're so good than you should have no trouble getting into the top ranks. You're crowning people based on their quick play performance in a competitive mode. If that's the case why make them play competitive at all?

They correct for groups though. And your hidden mmr suffers from the same flaw - you can earn it playing in a group.

If Top 500 is not a competitive rank then they should say so.

Who said it was based on your QP performance? You have to win 75? matches to be qualified for top 500 because it needs to have more reliable data on if it decides if you're top 500 or not.

I know you can still earn it by playing in a group, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at with that right?

I thought it was pretty obvious it wasn't a competitive rank when it uses a completely separate number from your actual competitive rank.

 

[Skii]

Mercy probably needs double damage on her pistol to become a viable healer. The main 3 healers all provide good DPS/offensive potential on top of their healing. It's a no brainer to pick them ahead of Mercy who essentially renders you 5v6 against a good team.

 

[Prelude.]

Junkrat's the cancer of this season. We just brutally won a Volskaya match and this Junkrat was saying to our McCree on the mic that he had gold kills and damage and that it was embarrassing and he should switch. On the previous match we had a Junkrat on Anubis attack that "will switch if it's not working" and ended up never switching, feeding Mercy's ult all the time. In an earlier match another one was heavily insulting our Zarya because he never got a shield (after winning the first round, to be clear).

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Mercy probably needs double damage on her pistol to become a viable healer. The main 3 healers all provide good DPS/offensive potential on top of their healing. It's a no brainer to pick them ahead of Mercy who essentially renders you 5v6 against a good team.

I agree with this, although certain Battle Mercys out there who do headshots can be terrifying sometimes.

I just assume that whatever characters get least play will get buffed and whatever character gets most play will get nerfed, until Blizzard feels they have a good even split of who plays what. Symmetra is the only black sheep here.

 

[darklin0]

Is there another DDOS attack? I am losing connection mid game again.

 

[Plesiades]

Is there another DDOS attack? I am losing connection mid game again.

Really? The Battle.net Blizzard servers can't catch a break.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Anyone up for some games? Want to get a good group going.

h3xantistyle#1975

 

[Data West]

That's a huge problem when Lucio, Zen and Ana can.

eh

 

[Sn4ke_911]

eh

?

You can do a lot of damage with Lucio.

 

[optimus8936]

I just assume that whatever characters get least play will get buffed and whatever character gets most play will get nerfed, until Blizzard feels they have a good even split of who plays what. Symmetra is the only black sheep here.

Eh, this would be a crappy way at balancing. Like, Hanzo, Pharah, Mei, Junkrat, and Soldier are fairly balanced heroes even though they don't get picked often. Lucio, Zarya, and Rein, for example, have high pick rates, but are fairly balanced.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Hmmmm.

That's not the exact definition of fairly balanced, but sure.

Maybe design wise to you, but balance is considered across the whole roster.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Mercy probably needs double damage on her pistol to become a viable healer. The main 3 healers all provide good DPS/offensive potential on top of their healing. It's a no brainer to pick them ahead of Mercy who essentially renders you 5v6 against a good team.

Honestly, I hardly ever bother switching to her pistol when I do play her. My focus is always on healing and damage buffs. If anything would get me to choose her more, it would be making her a little less squishy. She doesn't die as easily as say, Tracer, but still. When a whole team is gunning for you....

 

[darklin0]

Really? The Battle.net Blizzard servers can't catch a break.

Looks like its nothing. Glad that is the case, I only ever DC when they start happening.

 

[Data West]

?

You can do a lot of damage with Lucio.

compared to ana or zen? not even close.

lucio does less DPS than Mercy's pistol. It's just that Mercy should rarely have her pistol out.

 

[optimus8936]

Hmmmm.

That's not the exact definition of fairly balanced, but sure.

Maybe design wise to you, but balance is considered across the whole roster.

I'm talking about for the pro scene though. All those heroes I named that have low pick rates are fantastic heroes in the regular game. They just don't work with or against pro teams because of how they play. Like, Junk is about his spam and it's easier for pro teams to work around that. Pharah only works with Mercy in pro games because they're better at shooting down Pharah, where in pubs she can easily dominate without a Pharah. You get what I'm getting at here?

 

[AnotherNils]

Who said it was based on your QP performance? You have to win 75? matches to be qualified for top 500 because it needs to have more reliable data on if it decides if you're top 500 or not.

I know you can still earn it by playing in a group, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at with that right?

I thought it was pretty obvious it wasn't a competitive rank when it uses a completely separate number from your actual competitive rank.

Mmr is also earned in quick play is it not?

I think it's pretty obvious it is a competitive rank because its similar to the grandmaster emblem. Plus how is a rank that you can only earn on competitive not a competitive rank?

 

[Woo-Fu]

Guess I should be happy i'm playing around gold/plat, junkrat and pharah still viable vs. some comps. Is kind of disappointing that all of the heroes I like the most are at the bottom of the heap, though. Can play lucio, zenyatta, reinhardt, reaper when it is needed, just don't like those heroes as much and must be relatively weak with them due to lack of experience.

I feel like if I were good at Ana or Genji I could climb a bit, even solo queuing.

Why is roadhawg getting so much play in those picks? Doesn't seem near as useful as zarya/reinhardt in the current 2/2/2 meta in gold/plat. I use to play him a lot but in comp I either have a great team which makes me feel like I could do OK on any tank or I have a shit team and I end up getting discorded and focused any time I show my face. Meanwhile the enemy tracer is building her ult on me.

This is the first multiplayer shooter where I feel like I'm not getting any better, maybe I'm not.