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Pakistan floods worse than 2004 tsunami with over 13.8 Million people affected - UN

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Zapages

Member
I am not going to come out and blame anyone like I usually do... The situation in Pakistan is very deplorable to say the least. I mean freakin mad at the government and PPP aka Zadari aka Mr. 10% for having a great time while letting his nation die. Hell even the prime minister does know the nation's emergency number! WTF is wrong with our people for electing such corrupt official who only care for themselves! Pakistan needs a revolution that needs new blood with no more corrupt officials and corrupt military leaders ruling the country that cost millions of people to create.

Also my best friend's family's town just got destroyed back in Pakistan. Plus most of his family members are missing. Now we hear more flood waters are coming. :(

SUKKUR, Pakistan (AFP) – The United Nations said Monday it is to appeal for hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Pakistan's flood victims after the crisis eclipsed the scale of the devastating 2004 tsunami.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon announced the imminent appeal hours after its representatives in Pakistan said the massive floods had affected 13.8 million people.

"We will soon issue an... appeal for several hundred million dollars to respond to immediate needs," Ban told a press conference. "I appeal for donors to generously support Pakistan at this difficult time."

The Pakistani government and UN officials have appealed for more urgent relief efforts to cope with the country's worst ever floods, with President Asif Ali Zardari due to return home after a heavily criticised European tour.

The entire northwestern Swat valley, where Pakistan fought a major campaign to flush out Taliban insurgents last year, was cut off at the weekend as were parts of the country's breadbasket in Punjab and Sindh.

"This disaster is worse than the tsunami, the 2005 Pakistan earthquake and the Haiti earthquake," Maurizio Giuliano, a spokesman for the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), told AFP.

He said the 13.8 million affected outstripped the more than three million hit by the 2005 earthquake, five million in the 2004 tsunami and the three million affected by the Haiti earthquake in January this year.

The United Nations estimates 1,600 people have died in Pakistan's floods and the Pakistani government has confirmed 1,243 deaths. About 220,000 were killed by the December 26, 2004 tsunami in Southeast Asia.

Martin Mogwanja, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Pakistan, called on relief operations "to be massively scaled up".

"This is the worst ever flood of our history. The nation needs to come together at this crucial time," said Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani after visiting flood-hit areas of Punjab province on Monday.

"Rehabilitation of the affected people is a challenge. We are facing a bigger challenge than 2005 earthquake. It is a catastrophe."

Ban meanwhile also stressed the need to consider medium- and long-term assistance to Pakistan, warning that this "will be a major and protracted task."

The government said foreign donors including the United States have pledged 92.8 million dollars in aid, but on the ground Islamic charities with suspected extremist links have been far more visible in the relief effort.

US military helicopters supporting relief and rescue operations have rescued more than 1,000 people, the White House said late Monday.

The aircraft, including six army helicopters, "will continue to work closely with our Pakistani allies to help evacuate stranded citizens and transport urgently needed supplies to hard hit areas," said National Security Adviser General James Jones.

Pakistan's meteorological office forecast only scattered rain in the next 24 hours and said the intensity of monsoon showers was lessening.

But with floods sweeping south, hundreds of thousands of people have fled to seek safety as heavy rains continued to lash the province of Sindh and water levels rose further in the swollen Indus river.

"We have evacuated about one million people but hundreds of thousands of people left their houses alone," Jam Saifullah Dharejo, irrigation minister for Sindh, told AFP.

Hundreds of farm workers were stranded on a bridge in the highway town of Karampur in northern Sindh, camped out with utensils and bedding while the road beyond lay flooded and the main Indus highway blocked, an AFP reporter said.

"We fled to save our lives. We thought we would get relief goods but we got nothing," said Dodo Khan, 50, an agriculture worker.

"We haven't eaten for three days. My younger son, who is just five years old, is crying with hunger."

Gnawing on a piece of onion, the child winced at the bitter taste, crying and visibly unable to swallow.

Survivors have for weeks lashed out at authorities for failing to come to their rescue, piling pressure on Pakistan's cash-strapped administration straining to contain Taliban violence and an economic crisis.

Thin and frail, Mahi Bacchi, 45, cried: "We voted for this government. We made Asif Ali Zardari our ruler but we don't know why he is so unconcerned.

"We are here without food and water. Our children are sick but no one comes from the government to help us."

Zardari has been in France and Britain, courting massive criticism for not returning at a time of national disaster. One protester threw a shoe at him in England.

The United Nations estimated that up to 500,000 people are homeless and 1.4 million acres of agricultural land destroyed in central Punjab province, but said damage was worst in the northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100809/wl_afp/pakistanweatherfloods
 
While I agree that the floods are bad, and very unfortunate for the people that live there, you still blamed someone.

Aid is being sent. We'll see how much the aid actually helps.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Zapages said:
I am not going to come out and blame anyone like I usually do... The situation in Pakistan is very deplorable to say the least. I mean freakin mad at the government and PPP aka Zadari aka Mr. 10% for having a great time while letting his nation die. Hell even the prime minister does know the nation's emergency number! WTF is wrong with our people for electing such corrupt official who only care for themselves! Pakistan needs a revolution that needs new blood with no more corrupt officials and corrupt military leaders ruling the country that cost millions of people to create.

:lol :lol :lol

Taliban would have done a better job handling the flood, right Zapages?

Also, his name is Zardari, not Zadari.
 

Zapages

Member
xbhaskarx said:
:lol :lol :lol

Taliban would have done a better job handling the flood, right Zapages?

Also, his name is Zardari, not Zadari.


No, but the military is doing something right now to help evacuate the effective areas.

I can't believe not more people are posting in this while the Tsunami thread was huge. :(
 

SmokyDave

Member
Tragic for all involved.

Zapages said:
I am not going to come out and blame anyone like I usually do... The situation in Pakistan is very deplorable to say the least. I mean freakin mad at the government and PPP aka Zadari aka Mr. 10% for having a great time while letting his nation die. Hell even the prime minister does know the nation's emergency number! WTF is wrong with our people for electing such corrupt official who only care for themselves! Pakistan needs a revolution that needs new blood with no more corrupt officials and corrupt military leaders ruling the country that cost millions of people to create.

Also my best friend's family's town just got destroyed back in Pakistan. Plus most of his family members are missing. Now we hear more flood waters are coming. :

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100809/wl_afp/pakistanweatherfloods
You don't live in Pakistan do you?

Have you ever lived in Pakistan?

I find your obsessive romanticism concerning the region quite strange.
 

Meadows

Banned
A poor, war torn country gets hit by floods. The president doesn't really have much to work with does he? Can't expect him to make it better when he just isn't in control of a country that can handle a natural disaster on their own.
 
Zapages said:
No, but the military is doing something right now to help evacuate the effective areas.

I can't believe not more people are posting in this while the Tsunami thread was huge. :(

total death was around 180000 thousand in that one. many countries were affected and people at that time too. This one is also great tragedy i think around 1400 death is the number last i heard with millions of people lost of home.
 

Zapages

Member
SmokyDave said:
Tragic for all involved.


You don't live in Pakistan do you?

Have you ever lived in Pakistan?

I find your obsessive romanticism concerning the region quite strange.

Nearly all of my cousins, relatives, and grandparents live there. I might even go back to Pakistan to get married. So I care about that region and want it to progress and become a better place for all people to live. Is that so wrong?

PS: I have visited Pakistan...
 

SmokyDave

Member
Zapages said:
Nearly all of my cousins, relatives, and grandparents live there. I might even go back to Pakistan to get married. So I care about that region and want it to progress and become a better place for all people to live. Is that so wrong?

PS: I have visited Pakistan...
It's not wrong, no.

I just find it odd. You seem to speak as if you live there and you know what is best for the region and yet you're probably sat somewhere in the US thousands and thousands of miles away. It's something I saw a lot with my Pakistani friends as a child (in England), none of them had spent more than a couple of months there but they were all hopelessly romantic about the place.


AAK said:
When was it odd to care about the land you come from?
I don't think Zapages came from that land, that's what I find odd. It's neither here nor there, I should have PM'ed really.
 

AAK

Member
When did it become odd to care about the land you come from?

Just because he might not have been born there, I'm sure him along with other American borns consider themselves Pakistani before an American.
 

Meadows

Banned
SmokyDave said:
It's not wrong, no.

I just find it odd. You seem to speak as if you live there and you know what is best for the region and yet you're probably sat somewhere in the US thousands and thousands of miles away. It's something I saw a lot with my Pakistani friends as a child (in England), none of them had spent more than a couple of months there but they were all hopelessly romantic about the place.

clinging onto a - probably false - cultural identity. I'm mainly Scottish/Welsh heritage but live in England. But you don't see me wearing a kilt and calling people boyo every day (except on thrusdays, that's my kilt and boyo day). In somewhere as lacking identity and history as the US, people cling onto any cultural ties they have, no matter if Zapages was born in rural Iowa or New Jersey or something, he still probably considers himself Pakistani.

EDIT: As the Sociologist Jean Baudrillard said:

Americans may have no identity, but they do have wonderful teeth.
 

dmshaposv

Member
SmokyDave said:
It's something I saw a lot with my Pakistani friends as a child (in England), none of them had spent more than a couple of months there but they were all hopelessly romantic about the place.

The thing with most Pakistanis' "hopeless romanticism" has to do with the extended family relations. Pakistanis living abroad are closely connected with their families back home and the reason why they leave the country is due to the socio-political infrastructure.

Pakistani are not willing to take an intiative within the country as they accept the status quo. However, the moment they step outside on foregin land, and see a proper order of socio-political affairs they long for such a reform back home. Of course that won't happen, since it is very easy to manipulate the generally illiterate population.

Thus, Pakistanis abroad can't do anything but bitch about it. Case in point: Zapages.
 

Azih

Member
Taliban would have done a better job handling the flood, right Zapages?
That's unfair. I don't agree with Zapages on all that much but he's never mentioned any support for the Taliban.

In any case I've lived in Pakistan and I have a lot of family in Pakistan. I'm a little bit more disconnected from the place then most of the rest of my family but what you call 'hopeless romanticism' SmokyDave is just having pride in where you come from and wanting to see it do well. Being patriotic for a country that has major problems has a markedly different feel from being patriotic for a successful nation let me tell you.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Meadows said:
*snipping because the posts are right above me*
dmshaposv said:
*snipping because the posts are right above me*
Good points guys, much food for thought. Thanks.


AAK said:
When did it become odd to care about the land you come from?

Just because he might not have been born there, I'm sure him along with other American borns consider themselves Pakistani before an American.
I'd hope not. That'd lead to a conflicted cultural identity I'd have thought. I'm English because I was born in England. The fact that both my parents are English is irrelevant, if they'd conceived and birthed me in France and I'd always lived in France, I'd be French.

There's the other angle as well, if I considered someone born in England as Non-English because of their cultural ties to Pakistan, I'd be a racist / nationalist.

Edit: Shit, this really is off-topic and the topic concerns a tragic event. I'm sorry guys, ignore me until I create a topic dealing with nationalism or something.
 

Prine

Banned
SmokyDave said:
There's the other angle as well, if I considered someone born in England as Non-English because of their cultural ties to Pakistan, I'd be a racist / nationalist.

Edit: Shit, this really is off-topic. I'm sorry guys, ignore me until I create a topic dealing with nationalism or something.

I agree with this. Me as i am now, would not be accepted by Pakistani's. Im a foreigner whenever i visit.

On topic: Tragic news, even more tragic is that the aid will most likely go into he pockets of corrupt politicians. There's very little hope for the people effected, outside of charities.

The government is hopeless.
 

Acheteedo

Member
Anyone know if Karachi is effected or will be effected? My family-in-law is there, and all my missus knows is that "they're fine".
 

Azih

Member
SmokyDave said:
I'd hope not. That'd lead to a conflicted cultural identity I'd have thought. I'm English because I was born in England. The fact that both my parents are English is irrelevant, if they'd conceived and birthed me in France and I'd always lived in France, I'd be French.

There's the other angle as well, if I considered someone born in England as Non-English because of their cultural ties to Pakistan, I'd be a racist / nationalist.

I've never understood why people assume that having multiple nationalities requires some sort of competition between them. Then again I'm in North America which is a completely different setting from the Old World.

Edit: Karachi should be fine, there's no river there to flood as far as I know.
 

AAK

Member
Karachi area is still @ risk, but so far it's relatively safe.... but still suffering from the monsoon season.

But the people of Pakistan can't just blindly watch as the government continue acting this way. Another coup has to take place, preferrably by the military again just how it was done by Musharraf. They seem to be the only organized and educated body capable of governing the state. Even though it might cause some instability, it'll be 100 fold better than what's going on with the country now.
 

krioto

Member
I've never understood the sending of foreign aid to countries that can afford to sort a situation by itself - I mean these chaps have nukes? so surely they have the cash to look after their own people in times of crisis?

I know fuck all about Pakistan, so enlighten me.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Azih said:
I've never understood why people assume that having multiple nationalities requires some sort of competition between them. Then again I'm in North America which is a completely different setting from the Old World.

Edit: Karachi should be fine, there's no river there to flood as far as I know.
I wasn't talking about people with multiple nationalities.
 

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
AAK said:
Karachi area is still @ risk, but so far it's relatively safe.... but still suffering from the monsoon season.

But the people of Pakistan can't just blindly watch as the government continue acting this way. Another coup has to take place, preferrably by the military again just how it was done by Musharraf. They seem to be the only organized and educated body capable of governing the state. Even though it might cause some instability, it'll be 100 fold better than what's going on with the country now.
True, from what I hear from people I know, things were a lot better back then and almost everyone is regretting supporting the current government.
 

Azih

Member
krioto said:
I've never understood the sending of foreign aid to countries that can afford to sort a situation by itself - I mean these chaps have nukes? so surely they have the cash to look after their own people in times of crisis?
Not if most of the money the nation has is spent on the military and almost all of the rest of it is bled away by corruption.


Here is the thing that nobody seems to understand about Pakistan, either on this topic or on the topic of the war on terror or the Afghani Pakistani border or anything like that. The Pakistani state is extremely weak and not in charge of very much.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Anyone know if Sialkot is anywhere near the affected areas?

I know someone from there but he's remarkably reticent to talk about what's happening.

As for tsunami comparisons...people's perception of these things tends to scale with number of deaths. There was also - and don't take this the wrong way - a certain dramatic spectacle with the tsunami which almost compels people to pay attention. It was a massive dramatic force of nature, whereas general flooding tends to be less...crazy...to watch.

That said, whatever about here on GAF, I think it is getting a lot of media attention, and the accompanying charity campaigns are firing up already. At least where I am.
 

Wanace

Member
Even if this is a bigger disaster it won't get nearly as much notice because it wasn't a mass casualty incident where thousands of people died initially, there are fewer vacationing foreigners affected, and no one gives two shits about Pakistan, sadly.

Anyway, I hope the best for anyone who has family over there. My old college roommate was Pakistani and I'm sure he's pretty stressed about it.
 
230,000 people died when the Indian Ocean Tsunami hit. So far 1,400 people have been confirmed as dead because of the Pakistan floods – hence the lack of discussion about it in this forum. It's not quite as dramatic.

But sure, more people are affected in Pakistan right now.
 

Baki

Member
SmokyDave said:
Tragic for all involved.


You don't live in Pakistan do you?

Have you ever lived in Pakistan?

I find your obsessive romanticism concerning the region quite strange.

He's got a point though. South East Asia has rampant corruption throughout most public sectors. Ranging from high-powered politicians to your regular customs officer.
 

Azih

Member
SmokyDave said:
I wasn't talking about people with multiple nationalities.
Nationality is in the head, a person born in the U.K or Canada or wherever can consider themselves to have a nationality even if they don't hold the passport.
 
krioto said:
I've never understood the sending of foreign aid to countries that can afford to sort a situation by itself - I mean these chaps have nukes? so surely they have the cash to look after their own people in times of crisis?

I know fuck all about Pakistan, so enlighten me.

You think any country has the infrastructure and personnel to immediately help millions of people? Not even the US managed that after Hurricane Kathrina.
 

Zapages

Member
gofreak said:
Anyone know if Sialkot is anywhere near the affected areas?

I know someone from there but he's remarkably reticent to talk about what's happening.

As for tsunami comparisons...people's perception of these things tends to scale with number of deaths. There was also - and don't take this the wrong way - a certain dramatic spectacle with the tsunami which almost compels people to pay attention. It was a massive dramatic force of nature, whereas general flooding tends to be less...crazy...to watch.

That said, whatever about here on GAF, I think it is getting a lot of media attention, and the accompanying charity campaigns are firing up already. At least where I am.

Some parts of Sialkot are effected by the flood right now.

The villages in Bajwat area of Sialkot district were submerged following a fresh spate in the Chenab river after the release of waters by India, Pakistani officials alleged.

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Politics/Nation//articleshow/6270199.cms


Anyway as for SmokyDave: Here's a small history of myself. I was born in Glasgow, Scotland. Thus that makes me Scottish. Then I lived in Pakistan for three years till I was 3 years old. Then I've lived in the US and I am an Naturalized Citizen of the US. My family and I have been to Pakistan countless times during the summer or winter. Regardless of all this, I am loyal to the US and the law order here. I have relatives and family all over Pakistan. Plus lack of law and order in Pakistan makes me concerned about it. Especially considering what tribulations the country had to go through become an actual country. That is why I care!

I don't romanticized about Pakistan, but I don't want her to become worse than what it is right now. :( Therefore that is why post a lot about it here. So people get interested an see things in different light than what it is stereotypically perceived about Muslims and Pakistan.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Azih said:
Nationality is in the head, a person born in the U.K or Canada or wherever can consider themselves to have a nationality even if they don't hold the passport.
Righto. I'll skip the green card application and just mention to the US Border Control that I've decided I'm American. I'll let you know how that goes.


Edit: Zapages, just read your post above. I 'get it' more now, I guess. Apologies for calling you out specifically when my curiousity is more directed at people around me (irl). Your concern is understandable and I wish your family over there all the best during these floods.
 

Azih

Member
SmokyDave said:
Righto. I'll skip the green card application and just mention to the US Border Control that I've decided I'm American. I'll let you know how that goes.
We're talking about sentiment here aren't we? Identity isn't built solely on legal documentation which is why someone who is originally from India or Somalia or whatever can still identify as Indian or Somali even if they have never seen the place.
 

[Nintex]

Member
I think the Pakistan president can be of more help trying to get help from European countries, instead of going back to Pakistan. Bad shit happens all over the globe and I'm sure there'll be plenty of aid coming in the next couple of days. With fires in Russia, floods in China and Pakistan we just can't be everywhere at once.
 

Davidion

Member
It's sad, this is getting little to no coverage on the news here.

There's a goddamn mudslide in China too that I just found out about. Fucking hell, what's going on here?
 

Meadows

Banned
Davidion said:
It's sad, this is getting little to no coverage on the news here.

There's a goddamn mudslide in China too that I just found out about. Fucking hell, what's going on here?

What is always going on. Nature. Every year people think that there are more and more disasters, and while that might be true, it isn't nearly increasing to the extent that people think it is.
 

Solaros

Member
Meadows said:
What is always going on. Nature. Every year people think that there are more and more disasters, and while that might be true, it isn't nearly increasing to the extent that people think it is.
This.

The internet is a good vehicle for propagating news stories that would never be heard by geographically distant places had the internet not been around. So it isn't so much that more bad things are happening, but more so that more people are aware of the disasters due to the internet causing increased awareness of the world around.

Source: me thinking out loud
 

Furret

Banned
Meadows said:
What is always going on. Nature. Every year people think that there are more and more disasters, and while that might be true, it isn't nearly increasing to the extent that people think it is.

There is however more people to be affected by the disasters.

And less trees to prevent flooding in areas like Pakistan.
 

Davidion

Member
Meadows said:
What is always going on. Nature. Every year people think that there are more and more disasters, and while that might be true, it isn't nearly increasing to the extent that people think it is.

:lol I was actually rhetorically commenting on the scope of the deaths and the lack of news coverage here, and going back it's just poor writing on my part, but I do agree with what you said.
 

SUPREME1

Banned
Worse than the 2004 Tsunami? Lol, NO.


The United Nations estimates 1,600 people have died in Pakistan's floods and the Pakistani government has confirmed 1,243 deaths.

About 220,000 were killed by the December 26, 2004 tsunami in Southeast Asia.



1,400 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< 220,000

It's really not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.


The only way these floods could be considered worse than than a quarter million deaths is if you consider mud shacks to be more valuable than actual human lives.


Smh.
 
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