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[Dash27]

Main criticisms would be that other argue grains are good for you, saturated fat is bad for you and that fat in general makes you fat. Paleo suggest you eliminate grains because they're not healthy, and replace those lost carbs with good fat including saturated fat from animal sources.

Paleo would argue that humans developed and evolved to their current state because of consuming a lot of fats to feed our brains. They further argue that fat is essential, keeps you fuller for longer and leaves you leaner and more energetic. Grains are very recent in our history.

I think the only real concern would be the guy who takes this approach as a license to eat 2 pounds of commercial low grade bacon a day. Beyond that eating whole natural food seems like a pretty well tested and sensible thing to do.

 

[Dash27]

Salad I made from the stuff on the previous page and some pine nuts I had. Raspberry vinegrette on top: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/10-delicious-diy-salad-dressings/#axzz2I9zIBOt4

Ironically it's in a "Wheaties" bowl:

 

[Caesnd]

Main criticisms would be that other argue grains are good for you, saturated fat is bad for you and that fat in general makes you fat. Paleo suggest you eliminate grains because they're not healthy, and replace those lost carbs with good fat including saturated fat from animal sources.

Paleo would argue that humans developed and evolved to their current state because of consuming a lot of fats to feed our brains. They further argue that fat is essential, keeps you fuller for longer and leaves you leaner and more energetic. Grains are very recent in our history.

I think the only real concern would be the guy who takes this approach as a license to eat 2 pounds of commercial low grade bacon a day. Beyond that eating whole natural food seems like a pretty well tested and sensible thing to do.

There does seem to be a bit of divison regarding some things within the paleo diet community, as per my own obeservations, however.

Things like Dairy and its properties, PUFA-ratios, the relevance of inclusion or exclusion of legumes, rice, eggs and their effect on HDL and LDL, benefits of ketosis, exercise recommendations etc. It seems like there are no real consensus on any of these things at all to me, and I can understand how that might be a bit discouraging for people looking to make a lifestyle change, even if just for experimentation.

 

[Mobius 1]

What is the consensus on drinking coffee and tea?

What kind of sweeteners are ok to use, and which ones should be avoided?

 

[FryHole]

Besides, plenty of medical professionals, scientists, and academics are on board.

*tentatively raises hand* scientist here, though not in a relevant field and not so much on board as paddling casually alongside to see where it's going.

Regarding the 'scientific community' if we're talking about official food recommendations from, say, the USDA or the NHS, the odds of any kind of embrace of anti grain, pro-saturated fat paleo even in the next decade is vanishingly small. This stuff is like trying to get an oil tanker to change course. And you can't fault such bodies for failing to promote such a relatively untested diet (low carb is better tested and they can barely bring themselves to acknowledge it) - their biggest failure is the equal lack of quality evidence for the diet they do advise us to eat.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Because of the lack of more large scale studies?

I'm not well read on the subject, so pardon the ignorance, but I'm curious as anyone else as to what the main critics are against this type of diet. My curiosity has been sparked because this is the first time I have seen sensible people around me start to change the way they eat purely as a life style change. Not based on ethics or weight loss; just the simple aim of feeling better and living a healthier life (I have no idea exactly in what way, but this does seem to be a common goal for many).

don't get me wrong, the whole model has changed from high grains to more sensible lower carb diets. That's undeniable. What comes to my attention is how ingrained (ha!) these diets are with nutrional quakery and pop science. It's a huge industry and a lot of money, funding, and attention are on the line. For weight loss it has completley changed the ball game and it has done a lot of good for many people. What is still debated is the idea that grains are all bad across the field or the lactose debate and some of the more strict rules of the diet.

For many people, it's very hard to make drastic changes. Either they get discouraged, or are self concious or become very stressed at the limiting factor. I know the better diet plans have cheat days and things like that but a more sensible approach is what most nutritionists recommend.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

What is the consensus on drinking coffee and tea?

What kind of sweeteners are ok to use, and which ones should be avoided?

I believe you restrict sweeteners to (organic) honey and stevia. Avoid creamers for coffee. Drink as much green tea as you wish.

~ ~ ~

I'm going to return to Paleo, as I need to cut 25 lbs by May. Basically going with a fusion of Japanese and Paleo diets, in addition to much jogging and walking.

Only non-Paleo foods I'll make use of are brown rice (no more than 1/2 cup per serving), miso paste, and the occasional slice of whole wheat toast.

Restricting meat intake to fish and eggs.

 

[SeanR1221]

I've made the case for Costco before and I'll make it again. If you want to get a lot of food at a good price, go there. I usually spend 150.00 every 2 weeks and get...

100 eggs
4 packs of bacon
2 packs Canadian bacon
12 cans of tuna
2 packs of chicken sausages
4 packs ground turkey
A rotisserie chicken
5 pounds of frozen broccoli
Bag of peppers
3 huge cucumber
4 stalks of lettuce
Big container of salmon spread

And more.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Then eat two salads or change lunch.

Well I was looking more for something interesting to grab out for dinner.

I could easily make another salad and have it ready, but I liked having deli sandwich day after groceries. Looking to replace that with something else that is different from the norm.

 

[CrankyJay]

I've made the case for Costco before and I'll make it again. If you want to get a lot of food at a good price, go there. I usually spend 150.00 every 2 weeks and get...

100 eggs
4 packs of bacon
2 packs Canadian bacon
12 cans of tuna
2 packs of chicken sausages
4 packs ground turkey
A rotisserie chicken
5 pounds of frozen broccoli
Bag of peppers
3 huge cucumber
4 stalks of lettuce
Big container of salmon spread

And more.

Sorry Sean, you're not Paleo. Our Paleolithic ancestors didn't have cans.

=P

 

[SeanR1221]

That's it, I'm giving up
Just eating cheeseburgers from now on.

 

[dralla]

Yea, if you're on a tight budget I would avoid fruit, or buy frozen instead. Fruit is way too expensive for the nutrition and satiation it gives you. I buy frozen strawberries, only $1.50 a bag, which is great. Spend the majority of your budget on lean protein, eggs, and good fats [coconut, butter, olive, avocado, ect]. Frozen veggies too. You should be able to keep a reasonable budget this way.

--

My current go-to dinner has been chicken, brussel sprouts, and avocado. I musti've eaten it a week straight now, I can't help it, it's so good.

baked chicken, Italian seasoning. butter/garlic covered brussel sprouts

chicken and brussel sprouts fried in coconut oil, some basic seasoning

oh, I made some awesome 'mashed' butternut squash the other day, mixed with butter/cinnamon..so fucking good. Definitely try it if you want something a little starchier

last thing, paleo-friendly ice cream

it's delicioussssss

 

[Caesnd]

http://chriskresser.com/beyond-paleo-moving-from-a-paleo-diet-to-a-paleo-template --- Here's a good article that addresses the concerns I talked about earlier (went on a google hunt because no one seemed interested in explaining this matter of contradiction within the field). It basically boils down to the fact that no one is the same and people react differently. The only thing that remains is the core idea that eating natural whole foods is the best way to promote ones health, and that people need to see for themselves what kind of diet suits their own bodies. Surely, those who would dispute this notion are few and far between?

I don't know much about Kresser (or any of these popular spokespeople for the diet), but I've seen articles by him being linked to around here before, so I figured it's a good a source as any (it's basically just common sense anyway).

 

[mugwhump]

What are good paleo things for "lazy bachelors who dislike most vegetables"?

All I can think of is omelettes.

 

[Dash27]

I just want to reiterate that I'm not eating what I consider "a lot" of meat on this diet. I think sometimes people get that impression. Maybe I'll update the OP.

In my view, the ideal plate is not more than 1/3rd animal protein and the rest veggies with added good fats. animal fat, oils, nuts, avocado etc.

On a side note dralla mentioned butternut squash above and I'm going to try that tonight or tomorrow. I found this which looks ridiculously good but calls for maple syrup. 80/20 rule son:

http://fastpaleo.com/cinnamon-maple-butternut-squash/

 

[Dash27]

Oh also, I'm doing this as a long overdue "cut". In the past I knew that 165-170 is very lean for me, now that I've done a really big bulk i dont know what my goal is so I'm basing it totally on the mirror and measurements. I'm hoping somewhere in the 180-185 range is my new lean mark.

I'm down 6 pounds in 10 days or so of trying to be a bit more strict. As of Tuesday I've eliminated another "cheat"; no more 3 eggs, bacon and american cheese on toast from the deli near work for breakfast. Eliminate the toast and processed cheese. Going for 3 eggs with spinach and various other veggies for breakfast. Bacon added in occasionally.

 

[Backwards Marathon]

Neanderthals and Home sapiens are not the same.

 

[CrankyJay]

Last night's dinner was baked chicken breast, roasted brussels sprouts, and baked sweet potato. not bad.

 

[kevo_huevo]

aw yeah. roasted brussel sprouts and butternut squash are perfect side dishes.

i like to roast them with some fresh garlic, olive oil, some diced onion, and salt & pepper.

i've been on paleo since shortly after xmas, with a 90/10 split on indulgence (dessert, red wine, etc). i think it's helped me lose about 6 lbs of water weight, and my weight overall has pretty much stabilized. im going to get back into the gym and hit it hard now, i wonder how my lifting will feel on paleo. perhaps i should load up on more carbs on days i lift?

 

[CrankyJay]

aw yeah. roasted brussel sprouts and butternut squash are perfect side dishes.

i like to roast them with some fresh garlic, olive oil, some diced onion, and salt & pepper.

i've been on paleo since shortly after xmas, with a 90/10 split on indulgence (dessert, red wine, etc). i think it's helped me lose about 6 lbs of water weight, and my weight overall has pretty much stabilized. im going to get back into the gym and hit it hard now, i wonder how my lifting will feel on paleo. perhaps i should load up on more carbs on days i lift?

my personal opinion is that is fine if you do....i would do it in the morning if you can swing it

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So if going low carb what's the consensus on low carb taco shells? I wanted to do them this weekend. The ones I get are like 13 carbs with high fiber.

 

[Dre]

So if going low carb what's the consensus on low carb taco shells? I wanted to do them this weekend. The ones I get are like 13 carbs with high fiber.

Aren't those typically made of corn/wheat flour and hydrogenated veggie oil? That's not paleo at all.

 

[CrankyJay]

So if going low carb what's the consensus on low carb taco shells? I wanted to do them this weekend. The ones I get are like 13 carbs with high fiber.

My first concern would be how processed low-carb anything would be...best avoid.

 

[dralla]

What are good paleo things for "lazy bachelors who dislike most vegetables"?

All I can think of is omelettes.

Use veggies as vehicles for fat, put butter or cheese on them, cook them with bacon, ect. I can't imagine you would dislike all veggies if prepared differently. If you do, you could just not eat them. Eat lots of different types of meat instead to get the missing vitamins and minerals. Fruit is an option too, but will get expensive.

I just want to reiterate that I'm not eating what I consider "a lot" of meat on this diet. I think sometimes people get that impression. Maybe I'll update the OP.

In my view, the ideal plate is not more than 1/3rd animal protein and the rest veggies with added good fats. animal fat, oils, nuts, avocado etc.

On a side note dralla mentioned butternut squash above and I'm going to try that tonight or tomorrow. I found this which looks ridiculously good but calls for maple syrup. 80/20 rule son:

http://fastpaleo.com/cinnamon-maple-butternut-squash/

http://fastpaleo.com/wp-content/themes/timeforfood/lib/timthumb.php?src=http://fastpaleo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1173.jpg&w=470&h=320&zc=1[IMG][/QUOTE]
You don't need maple syrup if you don't want it. I just steamed mine until it become soft, mashed them with butter/salt/cinnamon, super simple and came out great. I bought mine cut up already too.

[quote="kevo_huevo, post: 46552717"]aw yeah. roasted brussel sprouts and butternut squash are perfect side dishes.

i like to roast them with some fresh garlic, olive oil, some diced onion, and salt & pepper.

i've been on paleo since shortly after xmas, with a 90/10 split on indulgence (dessert, red wine, etc). i think it's helped me lose about 6 lbs of water weight, and my weight overall has pretty much stabilized. im going to get back into the gym and hit it hard now, i wonder how my lifting will feel on paleo. perhaps i should load up on more carbs on days i lift?[/QUOTE]
Brussel sprouts are probably my current favorite veggie. So easy to cook, so tasty. Cheap too, if you buy them frozen. Roast some, season with cinnamon and nutmeg..mmmm.

As far as desserts/indulgences, dark chocolate, red wine, baked paleo treats [made with almond meal or coconut flour], coconut milk ice cream, all good options.

[quote="Deadly Cyclone, post: 46553495"]So if going low carb what's the consensus on low carb taco shells? I wanted to do them this weekend. The ones I get are like 13 carbs with high fiber.[/QUOTE]
Taco shells/wraps are made from grains, they're off limits. Paleo is not a standard low carb diet, Paleo alternatives are lettuce wraps or Pure Wraps, which are made from coconut and salt, that's it - [url]http://improveat.com/whatoffer.php[/url]

 

[infiniteloop]

last thing, paleo-friendly ice cream

Not according to ingredients:

Ingredients: ORGANIC COCONUT MILK (WATER, ORGANIC COCONUT CREAM), GUM ARABIC, CHOCOLATE FLAKE [COCONUT OIL, ERYTHRITOL, INULIN, COCOA PROCESSED WITH ALKALI, CHOCOLATE LIQUOR, VANILLA, REB A (STEVIA EXTRACT)], VEGETABLE GLYCERIN, CHICORY ROOT EXTRACT, ERYTHRITOL, NATURAL FLAVORS, SEA SALT, LOCUST BEAN GUM, GUAR GUM, CARRAGEENAN, MONK FRUIT EXTRACT.

 

[Pixel Pete]

I got an icecream machine for christmas so I can make evil delicious icecream where I know exactly what goes in it (and it tastes better than any store bought icecream). It's MOSTLY awesome fat, but still dairy.
Unfortunately it's hard to make good icecream without sugar for chemical reasons.
My point is, things like coconut icecream are on my agenda for this machine.

Last night's dinner was steam veges with eye fillet steak pan fried with my first ever batch of clarified butter, because I'm using too much high heat cooking with olive oil. Oh and there was a slice of homemade herb butter on the steak. So good.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Aren't those typically made of corn/wheat flour and hydrogenated veggie oil? That's not paleo at all.

Well I'm not really doing paleo, more low carb in general. Man, I miss having "wrappers" for things. Buns, shells, bread, all of that. Lettuce just doesn't work as well.

 

[Omegasquash]

Cracked like an eggshell yesterday...wife sick, son up all night puking, not able to work at all, crying baby (thought my mother in law did help with that one). I was hungry as fuck.

Totally ate some Ramen. Back on track today, but I ain't even mad.

Edit: Oh ya and I'm 3 lbs down a week .5 in.

 

[dralla]

Not according to ingredients:

Ingredients: ORGANIC COCONUT MILK (WATER, ORGANIC COCONUT CREAM), GUM ARABIC, CHOCOLATE FLAKE [COCONUT OIL, ERYTHRITOL, INULIN, COCOA PROCESSED WITH ALKALI, CHOCOLATE LIQUOR, VANILLA, REB A (STEVIA EXTRACT)], VEGETABLE GLYCERIN, CHICORY ROOT EXTRACT, ERYTHRITOL, NATURAL FLAVORS, SEA SALT, LOCUST BEAN GUM, GUAR GUM, CARRAGEENAN, MONK FRUIT EXTRACT.

coconut milk, fiber [inulin, chicory root], sweetened with stevia/erythritol, a few varieties of gum [ground up seeds]..don't see a problem

 

[GatorBait]

What are good paleo things for "lazy bachelors who dislike most vegetables"?

All I can think of is omelettes.

Meat.

I'll be honest with you though, I think a paleo diet would be pretty hard without eating vegetables.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

Meat.

I'll be honest with you though, I think a paleo diet would be pretty hard without eating vegetables.

I once met a vegetarian who didn't eat vegetables :/.

A few years later her husband was diagnosed with malnutrition.

Funny that :/.

 

[SeanR1221]

I couldn't imagine being a grown man and thinking "ew, vegetables!"

Especially since they are one of the most important things to eat nutrition wise.

 

[Mengy]

So I had my first avocado ever last night, and holy fuck what a disgusting fruit. I mean I've had guacamole before, I like guacamole, but a straight avocado is pretty sickly. I know they are good for you and all that, but man I need to research some other ways to eat this fruit. I'm feeling sick just thinking about it now, lol.

 

[FryHole]

So I had my first avocado ever last night, and holy fuck what a disgusting fruit. I mean I've had guacamole before, I like guacamole, but a straight avocado is pretty sickly. I know they are good for you and all that, but man I need to research some other ways to eat this fruit. I'm feeling sick just thinking about it now, lol.

Bit of salt, pepper and lemon juice will tart that up nicely for you.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Bit of salt, pepper and lemon juice will tart that up nicely for you.

Avocado is kind of an acquired taste, too. Just keep at it Mengy.

 

[ameratsu]

So I had my first avocado ever last night, and holy fuck what a disgusting fruit. I mean I've had guacamole before, I like guacamole, but a straight avocado is pretty sickly. I know they are good for you and all that, but man I need to research some other ways to eat this fruit. I'm feeling sick just thinking about it now, lol.

A little kosher salt on top improves the taste of plain avocadoes significantly.

 

[CrankyJay]

So I had my first avocado ever last night, and holy fuck what a disgusting fruit. I mean I've had guacamole before, I like guacamole, but a straight avocado is pretty sickly. I know they are good for you and all that, but man I need to research some other ways to eat this fruit. I'm feeling sick just thinking about it now, lol.

Really? I love it plain. As mentioned, try salt, or garlic salt.

 

[sweetvar26]

So what is wrong with dairy? I just want to know...

EDIT: Milk to be specific. I tend to drink a lot of it.

 

[kevo_huevo]

So I had my first avocado ever last night, and holy fuck what a disgusting fruit. I mean I've had guacamole before, I like guacamole, but a straight avocado is pretty sickly. I know they are good for you and all that, but man I need to research some other ways to eat this fruit. I'm feeling sick just thinking about it now, lol.

in addition to the above suggestions, try eating it with some eggs and veggies. make a scramble or omelet and put avocado slices on top. add it to some turkey patties or in a lettuce wrap/"protein style" burger

 

[maxxpower]

So what is wrong with dairy? I just want to know...

EDIT: Milk to be specific. I tend to drink a lot of it.

My friend who is a bioengineer told me that drinking dairy milk makes you absorb a lot of water. When I stopped drinking milk I noticed I became a bit leaner, and in my personal experience drinking milk would make me feel bloated and just gave me an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So via BzzAgent I got a big box of some Kelloggs cereal to test. I'm going to have to go off the boat a bit and eat some cereal.

 

[entremet]

So what is wrong with dairy? I just want to know...

EDIT: Milk to be specific. I tend to drink a lot of it.

Lactose intolerance in some folk and also mild allergies to casein, a protein found in milk.

 

[CrankyJay]

My friend who is a bioengineer told me that drinking dairy milk makes you absorb a lot of water. When I stopped drinking milk I noticed I became a bit leaner, and in my personal experience drinking milk would make me feel bloated and just gave me an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.

I believe Paleo dieters are mostly against it because of insulin spike.

 

[SeanR1221]

So via BzzAgent I got a big box of some Kelloggs cereal to test. I'm going to have to go off the boat a bit and eat some cereal.

Stay strong and give it away.

 

[Aeonin]

So what is wrong with dairy? I just want to know...

EDIT: Milk to be specific. I tend to drink a lot of it.

Check out this book called The UltraMind Solution. It gave me a pretty good explanation about the 'dangers' (not too bad) about milk. Dairy consumption can mess with hormonal imbalance, it also has an allergen (casin) that usually flies under the radar for most people - tho still causes some inflammatory effects.

I drink milk too tho. I switched over to Almond Milk and it has made an impact for sure. But after being broke as a joke again - I had to switch back to normal 1%.

 

[CrankyJay]

Check out this book called The UltraMind Solution. It gave me a pretty good explanation about the 'dangers' (not too bad) about milk. Dairy consumption can mess with hormonal imbalance, it also has an allergen (casin) that usually flies under the radar for most people - tho still causes some inflammatory effects.

I drink milk too tho. I switched over to Almond Milk and it has made an impact for sure. But after being broke as a joke again - I had to switch back to normal 1%.

What kind of impact did it make for you?

I eat some greek yogurt every other day...just wondering if I should try giving it up completely for awhile (and my whey protein?)

 

[dralla]

So what is wrong with dairy? I just want to know...

EDIT: Milk to be specific. I tend to drink a lot of it.

Nothing inherently wrong with it, if you have no problems with it, it's fine. It gives some people problems, either stalling weight loss/weight gain, not good for their skin, intolerance, casein allergy ect. It's recommended to cut dairy from your diet for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. If you don't feel any different, eat it!

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Stay strong and give it away.

I've been craving some cereal though. 80/20 rule?

 

[CrankyJay]

I've been craving some cereal though. 80/20 rule?

LOL...

That's fine. I recommend cheating once in awhile for mental health.

I'd pick a set day out of the week though for that. Saturday or Sunday for me usually.

 

[despire]

Decided to continue my cut with Paleo. First heard about this stuff a year ago approximately and I've been pretty much convinced it's the "right way" to eat ever since. Though I have continued eating a more normal diet due to my living situation.

Anyway decided to give this a proper go this time. Let's see how it goes