Support NeoGAF

[GatorBait]

Anything particularly wrong with the fruit-at-the-bottom Chobani Greek yogurt?

Also, what kind of turkey, ham, etc. are you putting in those lettuce wraps? Is it typical lunch meat or is there another similarly priced option that isn't so processed?

It also kinda sucks that the nearest Traders Joe's from me is about a 45 minute drive. Not quite worth it. There's a local organic-y kind of grocery store nearby that I'll try out. I've never been to a Trader Joe's so I don't know how it compares. Same with Whole Foods. There isn't one close enough to where I live. There all up in Cleveland

Tomorrow I might just go to this market and buy a bunch of random paleo crap and see what I can put together during the week. I'll just buy some veggies, fish, and chicken, and some fruit and nuts to snack on.

Almond butter okay? I love bananas in peanut butter, but if I can't have peanuts I might as well try almond butter.

Chobani fruit yogurt has added sugar in it. You'll be better off buying plain Greek yogurt and mixing your own fruit into it.

Almond butter is great. As with any nut product, be careful with how much you eat in a sitting though since it is calorically dense.

 

[dralla]

You guys are really amazing to me. I read about 85% of this thread (skipped a few parts) and I'm overwhelmed with all the information I took in, and that doesn't even include the external resources and websites that aren't even included in the OP. It's so much. It's really a wake up call for me in that I really don't know much about what I'm putting into my body. So many scientific nuances that are completely foreign to me.

So let's start with this....what's the omega 6/3 thing? I know omega 3's are good for you. Primarily in fish, right? What are omega 6's now? They're bad for you?

What's the verdict on canola oil enhanced with omega 3's? I currently have a full bottle at home.

Also, definitely going to get coconut oil. Shit seems amazing.

So yeah, I'm going to be the really annoying guy until I get a firm grasp on all this stuff. I feel like I'm starting out at square zero. I'm really hoping you guys have been reading about this stuff for a lot more than a couple months

So yeah....thank you for being an awesome resource and a great go-to for trying to find my way with this.

Both Omega-3 and 6 are essential, meaning your body can't produce them, they're both good for you if they come from the right source. There are a few type of Omega-3's, the ones you want are DHA and EPA, which are found in fatty fish. The O3 found in plants [walnuts, flax, chia, ect] are ALA, they're not easily used by the body and don't offer much benefit. So stick to fatty fish for your O3 intake, or supplement if you don't like seafood.

For Omega-6, it's a lot more common than O3 and you won't need to eat anything special to get enough. What you DON'T want to be eating are vegetable oils [soybean, corn, canola, sunflower, safflower]. The problem with these is that you're getting almost pure oxidized omega-6 and huge quantities, from a pure health perspective, these are arguably the worst things you can consume. When these oils are made they're exposed to such high heat [and other awful things like bleach] the fats become damaged/oxidized. Get your O6 from whole foods, pretty simple.

Cook with tropical oils [Coconut, Red Palm], animal fats [butter, lard, ghee, bacon grease], and a few other [avocado, macadamia, high oleic sunflower]. Get rid of the canola oil, during the creation process all of the good fats are destroyed, omega-3's are delicate. Just look at how canola oil is made - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs - the fuck?

 

[TheBear]

I've had a few attempts at Paleo, and I find it works best combining it with a heavy lifting program. As such, I'm going back to the Gym and will aim for more of a Primal diet. However, I don't want to completely eliminate rice, but all other grains can go. I would only eat rice 2-3 times a week with a curry or something, but my question is about timing. Is eating carbs i.e rice, potatoes etc worse for you at night then say lunchtime?

 

[dralla]

Carbs/Straches are better to eat after a workout, your muscles will be depleted of glycogen and it's a good way to refill them. It doesn't matter the actual time of day.

--

Paleo salad

Chicken, Bacon, Broccoli, Butter

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Carbs/Straches are better to eat after a workout, your muscles will be depleted of glycogen and it's a good way to refill them. It doesn't matter the actual time of day.

--

Paleo salad

Chicken, Bacon, Broccoli, Butter

Get the bacon out of there and that is my kind of meal.

 

[maxxpower]

What fruits can I eat on this diet? For veggies I mostly eat a shitload of broccoli, green beans, and mixed veggies(carrots, lima beans, corn). I was eating black berries and strawberries but they're too fucking expensive.

 

[dralla]

Get the bacon out of there and that is my kind of meal.

Need that bacon grease for cooking! And need the extra fat, chicken is lean, always add fats to chicken! Bacon and butter..mmm

What fruits can I eat on this diet? For veggies I mostly eat a shitload of broccoli, green beans, and mixed veggies(carrots, lima beans, corn). I was eating black berries and strawberries but they're too fucking expensive.

You can eat them all. Just know lima beans are..beans. and corn is a grain. Berries are generally the go to fruit because they're the lowest in sugar and highest in nutrients. I buy frozen strawberries, only $1.50 a bag or so. Fresh berries are expensive for the amount of satiation they give.

 

[maxxpower]

You can eat them all. Just know lima beans are..beans. and corn is a grain. Berries are generally the go to fruit because they're the lowest in sugar and highest in nutrients. I buy frozen strawberries, only $1.50 a bag or so. Fresh berries are expensive for the amount of satiation they give.

You're not taking away my lima beans!!!

How do you eat frozen strawberries, do you add them to your yogurt?

 

[Dre]

What fruits can I eat on this diet? For veggies I mostly eat a shitload of broccoli, green beans, and mixed veggies(carrots, lima beans, corn). I was eating black berries and strawberries but they're too fucking expensive.

You can basically eat every fruit.
More specifically though, exotic fruits have a higher sugar content and less anti-oxidants than berries for instance so you might want to restrict your consumption of those if you are trying to loose weight.

good fruits are:
Berries
Cherries
Apples/Pears
Grapefruit
Apricots/Peaches
Figs (not the dried ones!)

fruits you may want to restrict:
Melons
Mangoes/Papayas
Pineapples (actually they're very healthy but also loaded with sugar)

Berries tend to be a lot cheaper when bought frozen, so maybe you'd want to look for those.


Oh and btw corn is not a vegetable, it's actually a grain, so it might be better to avoid it from now on.


EDIT: beaten like a grandma

 

[dralla]

You're not taking away my lima beans!!!

How do you eat frozen strawberries, do you add them to your yogurt?

No, I just eat them out of the bag. You can let them thaw a little if you don't want them too hard. I like them that way though, like a strawberry hard candy!

 

[TheBear]

So, just to be clear, rice is considered somewhat acceptable for a primal diet.
What about rice noodles and other rice products?

 

[Dre]

So, just to be clear, rice is considered somewhat acceptable for a primal diet.
What about rice noodles and other rice products?

Rice noodles with no wheat flour added are acceptable as well. Keep in mind that white rice noodles have less bran and phytic acid than brown rice noodles and are potentially easier to digest.
Rice crackers and other rice products should be ok as well as long as they have no added sugar or other grains.

 

[Pyrokai]

What about rice milk?

 

[SeanR1221]

Working an extra long day today. That's an excuse to grab some junk right? Wrong.

Made all my meals this morning.

Breakfast was 4 eggs, 2 cups spinach and 2 pieces of bacon.

I then boiled 2 cups butternut squash and cooked it in the bacon grease. Added a can of tuna and 4tbsp salmon spread. That's lunch.

Dinner I cut up 8oz of grilled chicken, cooked two cups broccoli and spinach in coconut oil and threw two scrambled eggs in. Dinner.

Ill probably have a scoop of whey in water later.

 

[Dash27]

I've been dicking around too much lately so back on track today.

4 of my farm fresh brown eggs scrambled with some bell peppers for breakfast

Lunch will be some leftover meatloaf and a salad I made with romaine lettuce, cherry tomatoes, blackberries, raspberries, fresh mozzarella and some oil and balsamic dressing.

Dinner I'm not sure yet but probably some chicken and veggies.

Then gym at 6:30 - 8 and possibly a glass of milk with whey afterwards.

 

[CrankyJay]

Is there a maximum amount of fat grams that should be consumed in a single meal? I've been doing higher protein/higher fat/lower carb and seem to have stalled...

I think my calories are okay...I'm estimating my BMR at 2500 cals, even though the calculator says 3100.

6'2 200 pounds, lift 3x week, walks every day, cardio 1 day...

I eat around 2000-2100 cals a day with a cheat day on weekends. Seems I should be losing at least 1 pound per week.

 

[FryHole]

Is there a maximum amount of fat grams that should be consumed in a single meal? I've been doing higher protein/higher fat/lower carb and seem to have stalled...

I think my calories are okay...I'm estimating my BMR at 2500 cals, even though the calculator says 3100.

6'2 200 pounds, lift 3x week, walks every day, cardio 1 day...

I eat around 2000-2100 cals a day with a cheat day on weekends. Seems I should be losing at least 1 pound per week.

You should start taking measurements - waist, chest, hips etc. You could well be experiencing some body recomposition with that amount of training, particularly with higher protein, that means your weight stays the same even as you lose fat. If this confirms that you're actually in a stall I'd say firstly, provided you don't start gaining as well, give it time - stalls happen and constant tinkering with the diet probably doesn't help.

After that, I'm not really sure as I never experienced a stall and different things seem to fix it for different people, so the advice you get will vary. Personally I'm pretty convinced that weight loss relates to fasting insulin levels, and as protein stimulates insulin secretion (albeit with some compensatory glucagon) rather like carbohydrate, I'd eat less protein and replace the calories with fat.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Are there any good and comprehensive paleo quick start guides online?

I can only find ones that has a explanation, day breakdown and recipes that are paid, and while I'm not adverse to paying for an e-book this is the internet and theres usually a wiki somewhere that has the info for free.

If not I'll just scour and create my own resource, but I'd prefer an ebook that i can just read and print relevant pages

 

[CrankyJay]

You should start taking measurements - waist, chest, hips etc. You could well be experiencing some body recomposition with that amount of training, particularly with higher protein, that means your weight stays the same even as you lose fat. If this confirms that you're actually in a stall I'd say firstly, provided you don't start gaining as well, give it time - stalls happen and constant tinkering with the diet probably doesn't help.

After that, I'm not really sure as I never experienced a stall and different things seem to fix it for different people, so the advice you get will vary. Personally I'm pretty convinced that weight loss relates to fasting insulin levels, and as protein stimulates insulin secretion (albeit with some compensatory glucagon) rather like carbohydrate, I'd eat less protein and replace the calories with fat.

You're right...should probably take measurements and stop tinkering.

 

[Dash27]

Are there any good and comprehensive paleo quick start guides online?

I can only find ones that has a explanation, day breakdown and recipes that are paid, and while I'm not adverse to paying for an e-book this is the internet and theres usually a wiki somewhere that has the info for free.

If not I'll just scour and create my own resource, but I'd prefer an ebook that i can just read and print relevant pages

Not that I am aware of if you mean a full meal planner with recipes. Balanced Bites has all of the guides from Practical Paleo online free: balancedbites.com/useful-guides

Well maybe not all her guides but most. Her book has a bunch of suggested meal plans for different goals (athletic performance, digestive system improvement etc) with the recipes but I've found I use mostly my own stuff for day t day meals.

She also recommends Robb Wolfs ebook bu I have no experience with that personally so not sure if it's worth it or has what you're looking for.

For just recipes Punchfork.com is a decent aggregator: http://punchfork.com/paleo
Everyday Paleo: http://everydaypaleo.com/food/
Nomnom paleo: http://nomnompaleo.com/recipeindex
Mark's Daily Apple: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welcome-to-marks-daily-apple/#axzz2KblynSw1

 

[Dre]

What about rice milk?

It's not that great, I would avoid it if possible.
Rice milk is not filling (no saturated fat), low in protein, very low in calcium (thus not a good substitute for cow's milk) and has lots of carbs.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Body getting ready for ketosis again. So lethargic.

 

[Timedog]

I can't afford grassfed food. I could probably afford shitty grain fed stuff and then supplement with CLA and a few other things.

 

[Pyrokai]

Well, guys, I found a really nice organic/whole foods grocery store. Went in today and did a test run with some stuff. Here's what I bought:

3 boneless pork chops
4 oranges
2 lemons (for flavoring of things)
eggs
bananas
onion
sausage links

This is in addition to the following stuff I have in my freezer right now:

2 tilapia filets
frozen green beans (are these paleo? I thought I saw they're actually legumes)
frozen broccoli

This is to hopefully give me some stuff for meals for the next week. I definitely have breakfast and dinner covered, but I'm struggling to find things for lunch. I have to brown bag my lunch every day and I can't quite figure out what to put in there other than leftover meat and veggies.

Oh, and regarding nuts: Am I supposed to buy them raw? Is it okay if I buy them roasted? No loss nutrition, is there? I didn't buy any nuts today because I didn't know in what for is best in which to consume them.....or if it doesn't matter.

And what about soup? What are some key ingredients I should be looking out for other than obvious legumes that might be in soup? Just added sugar and dairy products?

I can't afford grassfed food. I could probably afford shitty grain fed stuff and then supplement with CLA and a few other things.

Yeah.....I was totally surprised by how expensive it was, which is why I went with pork from Canada which has better regulations as far as how pigs are raised. Or so the nice lady told me.

 

[GatorBait]

I've had a few attempts at Paleo, and I find it works best combining it with a heavy lifting program. As such, I'm going back to the Gym and will aim for more of a Primal diet. However, I don't want to completely eliminate rice, but all other grains can go. I would only eat rice 2-3 times a week with a curry or something, but my question is about timing. Is eating carbs i.e rice, potatoes etc worse for you at night then say lunchtime?

Personally, I would eat your starchy carbs on lifting days and prior to lifting. That would just be my preference though, as I think the glycogen from the carbs can help you get the most out of weight lifting. However, I think the recent science coming out has said that macronutrient timing has a minimal effect on body composition; someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Are there any good and comprehensive paleo quick start guides online?

Primal Blueprint 101 by Mark Sisson is a good place to start: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/. However, the "Primal Diet" differs slightly from Rob Wolf's "Paleo Diet", so keep that in mind.

Some other Paleo recipe sites I've come across:
Fast Paleo: http://fastpaleo.com/
PaleOMG: http://paleomg.com/

 

[dralla]

paleo salad/meat bowl part 2

Ground Beef. Rutabaga. Kale. Onions. Butter.

This is the only way I get frozen leafy greens to taste good.

 

[Dre]

Well, guys, I found a really nice organic/whole foods grocery store. Went in today and did a test run with some stuff. Here's what I bought:

3 boneless pork chops
4 oranges
2 lemons (for flavoring of things)
eggs
bananas
onion
sausage links

This is in addition to the following stuff I have in my freezer right now:

2 tilapia filets
frozen green beans (are these paleo? I thought I saw they're actually legumes)
frozen broccoli

This is to hopefully give me some stuff for meals for the next week. I definitely have breakfast and dinner covered, but I'm struggling to find things for lunch. I have to brown bag my lunch every day and I can't quite figure out what to put in there other than leftover meat and veggies.

Oh, and regarding nuts: Am I supposed to buy them raw? Is it okay if I buy them roasted? No loss nutrition, is there? I didn't buy any nuts today because I didn't know in what for is best in which to consume them.....or if it doesn't matter.

And what about soup? What are some key ingredients I should be looking out for other than obvious legumes that might be in soup? Just added sugar and dairy products?

The stuff you bought is just fine. I'm still going to nit-pick just for instructive reasons:

- Beef and lamb are usually better than pork meat due to the fact that they contain potentially less PUFAs.
- If you bought the oranges for their vitamin C content, consider that broccoli, spinach, bell pepper, brussels sprout and even strawberries have higher doses of it per 100g. The foods industry may want you to believe that oranges are the go-to-fruit for vitamin C, but actually that's not the case.
- Sausages are often filled with disgusting stuff like meat leftovers/preservatives/fillers and can be highly processed like bologna and salami. You don't want them to become your main source for protein, lean cuts of meat are better suited for that.
- Compared to other fish tilapia is relatively high in omega 6. Salmon, herring, mackerel, tuna, swordfish, halibut, cod or trout would be better alternatives.
- Green beans are legumes so technically not paleo, but just like fresh peas they are considered as one of the better choices of legumes and thus acceptable.


Regarding lunch, roasted/grilled veggies and meat, quality cheese, smoked fish, full-fat yogurt, fruits/vegetables that can be eaten raw, canned seafood, jerkys and nuts are the typical things you can eat on the go or put in Tupperware to eat them at work.

Nuts are regarded as snacks, you don't want them to become your main source of calories, macadamias are the best due to their low omega 6 content, but almonds, pistachios, cashews and hazelnuts are fine as well.
IIRC nuts which are roasted should be the same nutrition-wise a raw nuts, just try to avoid those roasted in peanut oil of course.


I hope I didn't put you off with my post, if that's the case it definitely wasn't my intention. I merely just wanted to give you some advice for the future. Like I said your choices are fine, you are already doing the right thing if you avoid grains and processed sugar in your diet and that's the main thing!

 

[SquiddyCracker]

It's not like I'm doing Paleo or anything, but I have been moving towards simpler meals with healthier ingredients. Breakfast is simply bran/oats (cooked in water, very rarely in milk), occasionally with some acacia as sweetener, lunch consist of various types of beans or eggs along with some crushed tomatoes, dinner varies, and on work-out days I take a massive protein shake.

Need to buy some broccoli, can't have too much broccoli!

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

It's not like I'm doing Paleo or anything, but I have been moving towards simpler meals with healthier ingredients.

Me too! Dash's previous thread about Paleo was a huge wake up call to me about my dietary intake and I have been remiss in not thanking Dash and all the informed contributors to both that thread and this for all their input.

From a diabetes risk assessment I looked at the other day it looks as if I was slowly working myself towards diabetes given my lifestyle. So discovering Paleo principles thanks to Dash's threads might have given me the impetus to change course just in time.

Now that I am eating more real food instead of easy, pre-cooked/prepared processed crap I am not having the lethargy after eating and general foggy thinking that has plagued me for awhile now. Coupled with exercising again it has made quite a difference to my life and I am not even Paleo per se yet; I am merely avoiding or greatly diminishing sugars, processed food and refined carbs. I have decided to make small, gradual changes to my diet rather than plunge into full on strict Paleo as I am more likely to stick to the changes that way than try and do it all at once.

Need to buy some broccoli, can't have too much broccoli!

I just bought some frozen broccoli yesterday for my new freezer which is a delight as I have been without a freezer for a few years and am really glad of the extra flexibility it gives me in buying and storing food.

If I could only have one item in the freezer it would be broccoli. I adore it and am glad it is Paleo kosher . I put down a bag of frozen broad beans and didn't buy them as they are non Paleo being legumes but I think I might have to consider them part of the 80/20 rule .

Speaking of sausages being dubious on a Paleo diet, have any of you made your own sausages? It seems like a good way of controlling what goes into them without missing out on the delight that is sausages.

Also, does anyone in the UK know of a good source for coconut oil [for cooking] please. I couldn't see any in Asda yesterday and when I got home and googled it my wallet shrunk at the prices I was seeing!

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I don't think coconut oil is available anywhere in the regular supermarkets here in the UK; though maybe the slightly posher places have it (but probably at exorbitant prices).
Fortunately there is ghee cheaply available everywhere instead.

 

[Dre]

Also, does anyone in the UK know of a good source for coconut oil [for cooking] please. I couldn't see any in Asda yesterday and when I got home and googled it my wallet shrunk at the prices I was seeing!

amazon.co.uk sells virgin coconut oil. It's still expensive, but I reckon this is the normal price for coconut oil in Europe.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

8 quid a liter on this site:

http://www.realfoods.co.uk/product/8493/pride-coconut-oil-250ml

Dunno how much shipping is though.

 

[FryHole]

Speaking of sausages being dubious on a Paleo diet, have any of you made your own sausages? It seems like a good way of controlling what goes into them without missing out on the delight that is sausages.

Also, does anyone in the UK know of a good source for coconut oil [for cooking] please. I couldn't see any in Asda yesterday and when I got home and googled it my wallet shrunk at the prices I was seeing!

I make my own (don't often bother with the casings though, just grind it up and fry it as patties). I use this beast http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000OGZKDM/ and this is my favourite recipe (think I got it from Mark's Daily Apple)

1 kg pork shoulder cubed
600 g pork belly cubed
2 tblsp fennel seed
1 tsp chopped garlic
0.5 - 1 tsp allspice
2 tblsp chopped parsley
1 tblsp red wine vinegar (add after mincing the other ingredients, and re-mince)

Regarding coconut oil, Sainsburys used to stock KTC coconut oil but I haven't seen it around for ages. If you can track down an asian supermarket locally, that would be your best bet. I personally can't see anything wrong with using KTC - it's a refined coconut oil, but given that coconut fats are fully saturated anyway I don't think the refining process can harm them. It also has the added bonus of not actually tasting of coconut, so you can use it as a general purpose roasting/frying oil.

 

[FryHole]

8 quid a liter on this site:

http://www.realfoods.co.uk/product/8493/pride-coconut-oil-250ml

Dunno how much shipping is though.

Yeah that's similar to the KTC stuff, refined but not hydrogenated (because fully saturated fats can't be hydrogenated, presumably).

 

[Dash27]

Me too! Dash's previous thread about Paleo was a huge wake up call to me about my dietary intake and I have been remiss in not thanking Dash and all the informed contributors to both that thread and this for all their input.

From a diabetes risk assessment I looked at the other day it looks as if I was slowly working myself towards diabetes given my lifestyle. So discovering Paleo principles thanks to Dash's threads might have given me the impetus to change course just in time.

Now that I am eating more real food instead of easy, pre-cooked/prepared processed crap I am not having the lethargy after eating and general foggy thinking that has plagued me for awhile now. Coupled with exercising again it has made quite a difference to my life and I am not even Paleo per se yet; I am merely avoiding or greatly diminishing sugars, processed food and refined carbs. I have decided to make small, gradual changes to my diet rather than plunge into full on strict Paleo as I am more likely to stick to the changes that way than try and do it all at once.

Thanks for that, it's very much appreciated

I was headed that way myself a while back. I found that even moderate changes towards trying to eat better and some exercise helped me tremendously. It wasn't Paleo at the time, not sure the concept even existed, but it was the same basic stuff you mention. Cut sugar, eat more whole foods instead of processed stuff.

Making those changes helped me a lot both mentally and physically. I started with small changes myself. Ironically one of the big ones for me at the time was oatmeal every morning, which I had to give up for this heh. BTW I'm still not convinced Oatmeal is in any way bad, and I'll go back to eating it when I get to maintenance.

So good luck to you!

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Oatmeal is all sorts of deliciousness, and it does look like it's reasonably healthy too.
It just happens to be a tiny bit carby, but they are good carbs.

 

[Dash27]

Real quick thought today on price. I had my farm fresh eggs again this morning, which I think cost me something like 5 or 6 bucks for a dozen as opposed to 3 or 4 bucks for 18 of my Egglands Best that I usually get.

Now and then if I'm running late or as a cheat I'll stop at the bagel store and get 3 eggs with bacon and cheese on toast. That costs $4.67. So for one of those sandwiches i can buy a dozen eggs, give or take. It sort of put the price in perspective. It's true I can get others for less but if the taste and quality is legitimately there i dont mind paying the extra $$.

 

[SeanR1221]

I've been in love with butternut squash. I boil the chunks, then bring it to a simmer for 20 min, then I throw them in a pan with some coconut oil, spinach and minced garlic and onion. Makes a great base for my chicken.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

I don't think coconut oil is available anywhere in the regular supermarkets here in the UK; though maybe the slightly posher places have it (but probably at exorbitant prices).
Fortunately there is ghee cheaply available everywhere instead.

Seems so :/. I had a look on Sainsbury's site yesterday after I got back from Asda and they allegedly sell it but it's six quid something for bugger all :/. I couldn't find it on Asda's site and I didn't even look at Tesco's as they're on my retailer shit list. Hm, I should try my local Adli and Lidl; that's just the sort of off the wall produce that they might have.

Thanks for the reminder on ghee though; I've just added it to my shopping list .

amazon.co.uk sells virgin coconut oil. It's still expensive, but I reckon this is the normal price for coconut oil in Europe.

Thanks . Amazon are on my retailer shit list too but I can always buy stuff direct from their providers, bwahaha!

8 quid a liter on this site:

http://www.realfoods.co.uk/product/8493/pride-coconut-oil-250ml

Dunno how much shipping is though.

Thanks, I'll bear it in mind .

I make my own (don't often bother with the casings though, just grind it up and fry it as patties). I use this beast http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000OGZKDM/ and this is my favourite recipe (think I got it from Mark's Daily Apple)

1 kg pork shoulder cubed
600 g pork belly cubed
2 tblsp fennel seed
1 tsp chopped garlic
0.5 - 1 tsp allspice
2 tblsp chopped parsley
1 tblsp red wine vinegar (add after mincing the other ingredients, and re-mince)

Yum. I have an old fashioned butcher at the end of my street in which I've lived for the last 12-13 years. I don't think I've ever gone in there since I've been here but now that I'm buying more real food I'm going to give them a go. Some of the prices they have flagged up in the window look awfully keen [in comparison] to supermarket prices. Plus they look as if they probably source from local farms and cut up all the animals themselves. I sometimes see disembodied pig heads in the back of their van as I walk past . So I might be borrowing your recipe soon!

Regarding coconut oil, Sainsburys used to stock KTC coconut oil but I haven't seen it around for ages. If you can track down an asian supermarket locally, that would be your best bet. I personally can't see anything wrong with using KTC - it's a refined coconut oil, but given that coconut fats are fully saturated anyway I don't think the refining process can harm them. It also has the added bonus of not actually tasting of coconut, so you can use it as a general purpose roasting/frying oil.

Thanks . My town is quite ethnically diverse so I'll put my deerstalker on and see if I can find a supplier at more sane prices.

Thanks for that, it's very much appreciated

Pleasure .

I was headed that way myself a while back. I found that even moderate changes towards trying to eat better and some exercise helped me tremendously. It wasn't Paleo at the time, not sure the concept even existed, but it was the same basic stuff you mention. Cut sugar, eat more whole foods instead of processed stuff.

Making those changes helped me a lot both mentally and physically. I started with small changes myself. Ironically one of the big ones for me at the time was oatmeal every morning, which I had to give up for this heh. BTW I'm still not convinced Oatmeal is in any way bad, and I'll go back to eating it when I get to maintenance.

In hindsight I think I was not eating anything like enough protein so was constantly tired too. That plus crappy diet = heading for diabetes land. Not good!

I can understand your porridge [as we call it in the UK] withdrawal; it's good stuff [and good for one's sex drive apparently!] but I was always too lazy to make it! Still once I get fitter and slimmer I'll tweak my carbs and see what I can get away with that is not strictly paleo. My exercise routine is getting pretty brutal now in the third week so I don't beat myself up if I eat the odd bit of non Paleo carbs like potatoes or the odd naughty treat. I've lost probably half a stone since I started exercising and watching what I eat and can now fit into trousers that I haven't been able to fit into for years so I'm pretty chuffed with how it's going.

So good luck to you!

You too fine sir . Oh and I just polished off a nice big plate of kebabs [kebobs] of diced chicken, red bell pepper and left over potatoes thanks to the pics of your kebobs inspiring me to try it. Such a quick and easy meal but so satisfying .

 

[despire]

Bought my diabetic father a hard copy of the Paleo Solution. Hopefully he reads it and starts implementing stuff as soon as possible.

 

[jamesinclair]

Im interested in trying this.

I know the atkins diet works well, and this one seems similar in that carbs = bad. I mean, theres like 20 diets that say carbs = bad, and none that tells you to overload on carbs...so they must have something right.

Not sure on the rice thing though. Asian cultures eat shitloads of rice and do fine. Also, from my own experience, eating a bowl of pasta = bloat, while eating rice comes with no negative feelings. I also eat sushi once a week, and you need rice for that. I love sashimi, but theres got to be some balance...


Also not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

 

[OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather]

IAlso not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

Salads. You can make some amazing big salads with mixed greens, various meats, eggs, fruits, vegetables, fresh herbs, and olive oil and vinegar. Basically, everything you'd find in a sandwich except the bread, plus fruit. Apples and oranges are stellar in salads.

Is mayo acceptable on paleo? Cause chicken salad is so good with grapes in it and you don't need bread.

 

[CrankyJay]

Im interested in trying this.

I know the atkins diet works well, and this one seems similar in that carbs = bad. I mean, theres like 20 diets that say carbs = bad, and none that tells you to overload on carbs...so they must have something right.

Not sure on the rice thing though. Asian cultures eat shitloads of rice and do fine. Also, from my own experience, eating a bowl of pasta = bloat, while eating rice comes with no negative feelings. I also eat sushi once a week, and you need rice for that. I love sashimi, but theres got to be some balance...


Also not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

Carbs aren't necessarily bad depending on what you're doing. If you're not doing much activity, then sure, carbs are bad. But with a weight lifting routine and cardio mixed in you can lose weight just as effectively with a 40p/40c/20f diet.

Of course, as long as the carbs come from whole sources and not from sugar or refined crap.

 

[theytookourjobz]

Im interested in trying this.

I know the atkins diet works well, and this one seems similar in that carbs = bad. I mean, theres like 20 diets that say carbs = bad, and none that tells you to overload on carbs...so they must have something right.

Not sure on the rice thing though. Asian cultures eat shitloads of rice and do fine. Also, from my own experience, eating a bowl of pasta = bloat, while eating rice comes with no negative feelings. I also eat sushi once a week, and you need rice for that. I love sashimi, but theres got to be some balance...


Also not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

Yeah, Asian cultures eat a shit ton of rice but no sugar. I think rice is fine. If you're trying to lose weight, I wouldn't overdo it though.

 

[Dash27]

Im interested in trying this.

I know the atkins diet works well, and this one seems similar in that carbs = bad. I mean, theres like 20 diets that say carbs = bad, and none that tells you to overload on carbs...so they must have something right.

Not sure on the rice thing though. Asian cultures eat shitloads of rice and do fine. Also, from my own experience, eating a bowl of pasta = bloat, while eating rice comes with no negative feelings. I also eat sushi once a week, and you need rice for that. I love sashimi, but theres got to be some balance...


Also not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

I wouldn't take away that carbs are bad. I would say refined carbs are not helpful in getting you lean and healthy, heavily processed (anything) is probably not great either.

Fruits and veggies are carbs, no problems there. I wouldnt say Rice is bad for you, just something to moderate as there are better foods for you to eat.

All that said, the best way to go is try it for 30 days as is, the best you can, then tweak from there. I found it to be well worth trying and I'm still going.

 

[teh_pwn]

Im interested in trying this.

I know the atkins diet works well, and this one seems similar in that carbs = bad. I mean, theres like 20 diets that say carbs = bad, and none that tells you to overload on carbs...so they must have something right.

Not sure on the rice thing though. Asian cultures eat shitloads of rice and do fine. Also, from my own experience, eating a bowl of pasta = bloat, while eating rice comes with no negative feelings. I also eat sushi once a week, and you need rice for that. I love sashimi, but theres got to be some balance...


Also not sure what to do about portable lunch. Sandwhich has always been my go-to.

Rice as a starch is one of several reward factors.

Consider three dishes:
1. 50% plain rice, mixed steamed vegetables, chicken breast diced, little bit of soy sauce, red pepper, ginger, and garlic.
2. Fast food Chinese. Sesame chicken caked with HFCS, MSG, lots of salt in general, layered with sesame and peanut oil with fried rice.
3. #2, but remove the rice.

Which change is more likely to make you eat less of it?

To those that argue that #3 is bad because of the HFCS, then:
Pepperoni and bacon melted with fine aged cheese
vs
#1

Spoiler

I think paleo low carb is a good combo because it forces you to go low reward low carb.

 

[IceCold]

Yeah, Asian cultures eat a shit ton of rice but no sugar. I think rice is fine. If you're trying to lose weight, I wouldn't overdo it though.

Asians seem to value being active more. But if you look at current trends their obesity/diabetes rates are increasing just like in the West.

 

[teh_pwn]

Asians seem to value being active more. But if you look at current trends their obesity/diabetes rates are increasing just like in the West.

Japan's obesity rates aren't changing much and they're incredibly inactive (they may walk more but still compare NYC to Tokyo, they're still thinner with not much of a fitness industry).

 

[Zoe]

There was an article not too long ago about how the different digestive flora from seaweed in Asian diets can probably explain the rice thing.

 

[teh_pwn]

It's possible. Gut flora can make a huge difference, but a controlled study would need to be used to confirm it as there are like a million different types of gut flora bacteria.

It's not a mystery why they eat less. Eat authentic Asian cuisine, and don't get the Americanized dishes. Go to a China town, try it out. Then the next day go to Panda Express and load on up triple Orange Chicken and Chow Mein/Fried rice. The first is food, the other is garbage. Addictive garbage.