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Paleo Diet 101: How and why you should eat like a Caveman

FryHole

Member
Soooo......is monounsaturated just as good as saturated? All these types of fats are confusing to me. I just know that if I follow Paleo, I need saturated fats.....which leads me to a question: If you DO have some kind of wheat-based carbs in the same meal you have saturated fat, does that make any health benefit of the saturated fat null because your insulin will go up? Does the same thing happen whether you're on Paleo or any other diet? [Edit -- Basically this: If someone were to half-ass the paleo diet and only eat paleo 50% of the time, would there be any benefit at all, or would it actually be unhealthy because the extra saturated fat can't be used properly because of the refined carbs? Hope this makes sense]

In the paleo world, monounsaturated is considered way better than polyunsaturated, and saturated is considered the best. It's to do with the capacity to be oxidised (a bad thing) - the more double bonds there are in a fatty acid, the higher its capacity to be oxidised. Monounsaturated has only one double bond, so it's pretty low capacity. Saturated, as you can tell by the name, has the lowest capacity as it is already fully saturated with no double bonds available for oxidation.

Try a read of this http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fats/#axzz2L5MSjbqo

I don't really know about half-assing the diet, but would guess that presenting your body with carbs and saturated fat to dispose of at the same time isn't great - I think at any one time it handles one or the other best. Even then it might be ok if the total calories is not excessive. ie don't have a triple bacon cheeseburger and large fries and full-fat coke and supersize everything and fuck it a milkshake why not.

Another side question: Let's say I'm doing paleo and following everything perfectly EXCEPT not getting enough saturated fats from fatty dairy, butter, etc. What effects will this have?

Depends - on the assumption that you're eating enough calories, where are they coming from if your intake of fats is low? Some people report success on higher-carb lower-fat paleo.

What exactly do you mean here? Paleo is a diet I don't think I really particularly enjoy eating, I just want the health benefits. Are you saying I should seek some other kind of diet?

Also, FryHole, how do you feel in particular about legumes?

A diet has to work, and it has to be sustainable. If you don't like this way of eating, you simply won't keep at it long term. Paleo may work, it may not be sustainable for you. It's a great diet, but it's not the be all and end all - you should tinker around and find out what works for you and what doesn't. Eating a diet you hate for the health benefits will result in no health benefits in the long run, IMO. Don't necessarily bail out straight away, but you've got to find what works for you.

Legumes I have no opinion on - it's one of the less convincing aspects of the original paleo recommendations, but I don't eat them much myself.
 

FryHole

Member
The butter I have is kinda.....meh. Can butter taste different depending on brand and stuff? Also, there actually wasn't much fat left over for the kale, but I still did it. I don't think I let the kale cook long enough but it was starting to burn in some spots. Probably too high of a temperature. But I seriously felt like I was eating leaves I picked off my trees. I put salt and pepper on it at least :p

There's a lot written about grass-fed butter being best, none of which is particularly convincing but it's not an issue for me anyway - I'm in the UK, where everything is grass-fed because it's just the easiest way to farm cattle here. You want salted butter - Kerrygold is my favourite. I scoop lumps of it up using bars of dark chocolate...

Kale chips are nice, btw http://allrecipes.com/recipe/baked-kale-chips/
 
So this diet is big on eggs, bacon, butter etc...

Arent there any worries about cholesterol?

I mean, people avoid eggs not because they think theyll get fat, theyre worried about a heart attack
 

FryHole

Member
So this diet is big on eggs, bacon, butter etc...

Arent there any worries about cholesterol?

I mean, people avoid eggs not because they think theyll get fat, theyre worried about a heart attack

Do you mean due to dietary cholesterol, or the effect of saturated fat on cholesterol levels? I don't think the former has been believed for a good while now (dietary cholesterol barely makes a dent in bloodstream levels), and the argument that saturated fat has been incorrectly targeted as a cause of high cholesterol is picking up traction. See here

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract?papetoc

The 'bad' lipid profile instead tracks refined carb intake quite well:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/20/ajcn.2008.26285.abstract

From a personal experience viewpoint, I live on saturated fat and my cholesterol level is spot on
 

Pyrokai

Member
Just wanted to let you guys know that I have read everything you've replied to and I've been thinking it all over. I'm borderline obsessing over this stuff. I have so many questions but I can't keep asking you guys every little thing. And whenever I Google something, I just get more stressed out about things, find out something ELSE I can't have anymore.....and then I can't figure out where to eat in a hurry without knowing what kind of oil they use. Like....man....I have an Applebee's gift card, and yes I know it's a crappy restaurant but I want to use it and get something mostly paleo. I figure "oh I'll just get a steak and some veggies" but hell, that probably can't even work either because they probably use something that's not on the paleo diet. It's just so strict.

I just....I don't know. I feel like I can't eat anything at all anymore. I was thinking about making homemade chicken salad for lunches thinking mayo would be okay because it has eggs and is fatty. But of course, I can't do that either because mayo apparently has a lot of bad oils in it. And that's probably not fatty enough so I need to find something else.

Also, I'm not exercising. Yet. I can't even put together a daily food plan without getting stressed out, yet alone an exercise regimine, and I know NOTHING about that, either. I used to just run, but now I'm finding out that's bad for me and I should do mainly strength training.

Oh, and if I take fish oil pills, would that be okay as a substitute for not eating enough fish? The purpose of these pills is to get omega-3's, right? If I'm ever worried I'm not eating enough omega 3 (found mainly in fish, right?) and getting too much omega 6 (found in mostly every other meat, right?), would taking a pill be okay to do as a substitue? Sea food is expensive....I can't keep buying 8 dollar salmon filets and 15 dollar grass-fed steaks. Maybe I'm not wealthy enough to eat this way...

One more thing....(don't kill me!)......

If you could tell sum up into one sentence how to eat and feel my best in the Paleo fashion, what would it be? (example: Don't eat grains or sugar or products of these, and eat plenty of saturated fats and veggies).

Like, I just want assurance that I'm not going to cripple the whole POINT of the paleo diet if I follow it well for the most part, but then have something cooked in, oh I don't know, soybean oil, which is apparently terrible for me.

It's just so much to take in...........and I'm really discouraged right now. Cheer me up :(

I promise I'll lay off after this. Just wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening to anyone who does...
 
Do you mean due to dietary cholesterol, or the effect of saturated fat on cholesterol levels? I don't think the former has been believed for a good while now (dietary cholesterol barely makes a dent in bloodstream levels), and the argument that saturated fat has been incorrectly targeted as a cause of high cholesterol is picking up traction. See here

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract?papetoc

The 'bad' lipid profile instead tracks refined carb intake quite well:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/20/ajcn.2008.26285.abstract

From a personal experience viewpoint, I live on saturated fat and my cholesterol level is spot on

Well, pour bacon fat down the drain.

Clogged drain.

It follows that said fat in body clogs the arteries.
 

dralla

Member
Just wanted to let you guys know that I have read everything you've replied to and I've been thinking it all over. I'm borderline obsessing over this stuff. I have so many questions but I can't keep asking you guys every little thing. And whenever I Google something, I just get more stressed out about things, find out something ELSE I can't have anymore.....and then I can't figure out where to eat in a hurry without knowing what kind of oil they use. Like....man....I have an Applebee's gift card, and yes I know it's a crappy restaurant but I want to use it and get something mostly paleo. I figure "oh I'll just get a steak and some veggies" but hell, that probably can't even work either because they probably use something that's not on the paleo diet. It's just so strict.

I just....I don't know. I feel like I can't eat anything at all anymore. I was thinking about making homemade chicken salad for lunches thinking mayo would be okay because it has eggs and is fatty. But of course, I can't do that either because mayo apparently has a lot of bad oils in it. And that's probably not fatty enough so I need to find something else.

Also, I'm not exercising. Yet. I can't even put together a daily food plan without getting stressed out, yet alone an exercise regimine, and I know NOTHING about that, either. I used to just run, but now I'm finding out that's bad for me and I should do mainly strength training.

Oh, and if I take fish oil pills, would that be okay as a substitute for not eating enough fish? The purpose of these pills is to get omega-3's, right? If I'm ever worried I'm not eating enough omega 3 (found mainly in fish, right?) and getting too much omega 6 (found in mostly every other meat, right?), would taking a pill be okay to do as a substitue? Sea food is expensive....I can't keep buying 8 dollar salmon filets and 15 dollar grass-fed steaks. Maybe I'm not wealthy enough to eat this way...

One more thing....(don't kill me!)......

If you could tell sum up into one sentence how to eat and feel my best in the Paleo fashion, what would it be? (example: Don't eat grains or sugar or products of these, and eat plenty of saturated fats and veggies).

Like, I just want assurance that I'm not going to cripple the whole POINT of the paleo diet if I follow it well for the most part, but then have something cooked in, oh I don't know, soybean oil, which is apparently terrible for me.

It's just so much to take in...........and I'm really discouraged right now. Cheer me up :(

I promise I'll lay off after this. Just wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening to anyone who does...
You're severely over-thinking this, it's actually a very simple diet. Eat real, whole foods. Stop worrying so much about macro break down and just focus on eating high quality foods. Eat all meat and seafood, vegetables, eggs, nuts/seeds, fruit, dairy if you have no adverse effects to it. Don't eat grains, beans/legumes, vegetable/seed oils [excluding olive oil], and added sugar. The only reason to start messing with macros is if you have a specific goal in mind, maybe you wanna lose weight, maybe you feel like shit eating certain foods, who knows. If you're gonna eat out, eat meat and veggies, you can always ask how it's prepared. Stick to grilled/baked meats and steamed veggies to be safe.

You can have chicken salad as long as you make the mayo yourself, there are plenty of paleo mayo recipes out there. You'll definitely be cooking a lot more for yourself eating like this, and it's one of the benefits IMO. It's also fun paleo-fying traditionally unhealthy things, my paleo pancakes this morning! Banana, eggs, coconut flour, walnuts, cinnamon, fried in coconut oil. delicious.

d0a367ce792f11e2a5cd22000a1fb0b0_7.jpg


Fish oil pills are one of the most common supplements, if you can't have seafood all that much, it's a good option. Things like canned red salmon or sardines are an option, but they don't taste that great.

Well, pour bacon fat down the drain.

Clogged drain.

It follows that said fat in body clogs the arteries.

So, you're saying the human body is the same as a...kitchen sink?
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Well, pour bacon fat down the drain.

Clogged drain.

It follows that said fat in body clogs the arteries.

Coconut oil is pretty much saturated fat. At body temperature, it's a liquid. So even this unusual analogy falls apart without considering it's validity.

If you're seriously trying to reduce the risk of heart disease:
1. Get to a healthy weight and waist circumference.
2. Exercise regularly.
3. Sleep well.
4. Don't smoke.
 

TheBear

Member
What are some good paleo/primal fast food options?

So far I have:

- Beef and Salad
- Chicken and Salad
- Salmon and Salad
- Salad

I like Salad, but another option would be great.
 

Piecake

Member
Just wanted to let you guys know that I have read everything you've replied to and I've been thinking it all over. I'm borderline obsessing over this stuff. I have so many questions but I can't keep asking you guys every little thing. And whenever I Google something, I just get more stressed out about things, find out something ELSE I can't have anymore.....and then I can't figure out where to eat in a hurry without knowing what kind of oil they use. Like....man....I have an Applebee's gift card, and yes I know it's a crappy restaurant but I want to use it and get something mostly paleo. I figure "oh I'll just get a steak and some veggies" but hell, that probably can't even work either because they probably use something that's not on the paleo diet. It's just so strict.

I just....I don't know. I feel like I can't eat anything at all anymore. I was thinking about making homemade chicken salad for lunches thinking mayo would be okay because it has eggs and is fatty. But of course, I can't do that either because mayo apparently has a lot of bad oils in it. And that's probably not fatty enough so I need to find something else.

Also, I'm not exercising. Yet. I can't even put together a daily food plan without getting stressed out, yet alone an exercise regimine, and I know NOTHING about that, either. I used to just run, but now I'm finding out that's bad for me and I should do mainly strength training.

Oh, and if I take fish oil pills, would that be okay as a substitute for not eating enough fish? The purpose of these pills is to get omega-3's, right? If I'm ever worried I'm not eating enough omega 3 (found mainly in fish, right?) and getting too much omega 6 (found in mostly every other meat, right?), would taking a pill be okay to do as a substitue? Sea food is expensive....I can't keep buying 8 dollar salmon filets and 15 dollar grass-fed steaks. Maybe I'm not wealthy enough to eat this way...

One more thing....(don't kill me!)......

If you could tell sum up into one sentence how to eat and feel my best in the Paleo fashion, what would it be? (example: Don't eat grains or sugar or products of these, and eat plenty of saturated fats and veggies).

Like, I just want assurance that I'm not going to cripple the whole POINT of the paleo diet if I follow it well for the most part, but then have something cooked in, oh I don't know, soybean oil, which is apparently terrible for me.

It's just so much to take in...........and I'm really discouraged right now. Cheer me up :(

I promise I'll lay off after this. Just wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening to anyone who does...

Breathe dude, lol

The diet is very very simple. Eat natural, non-processed foods (grain is processed) and you'll be fine. You do not have to be perfect. If you love dairy and you can eat it, have at it. If you love fruit and can eat a ton of it (i do) without gaining weight, have at it. If you eat potatoes and rice occasionally, oh well, thats fine.

If there is some wheat in your meal, well once in a while is not going to kill you. Dont worry about it. recognize that its not healthy for you and dont lose control. Having wheat a couple times a month is fine. Eating a cookie once a month would probably be fine too (I cant do it, dont have the will power to stop eating that crap once i do)

Mark's daily apple has a simple method. 80%/20%. If 80% of your diet is primal friendly, you are doing well. Is it better to have a higher percentage? Sure, but nobody is perfect and you can't control everything that you eat. Sometimes you just have to eat that office birthday cake not to offend anyone
 

FryHole

Member
Well, pour bacon fat down the drain.

Clogged drain.

It follows that said fat in body clogs the arteries.

Well clearly you're taking the piss, but if not fat will be at body temperature when you've eaten it, and stay fluid - drains clog when the fat hardens. And in any case, dietary fat doesn't just flow through the arteries like a drain, it is transported in proteins called chylomicrons. Finally, the fat you burn when losing weight through any diet is saturated, meaning any diet is a high saturated fat diet, really, so we're all buggered.
 

ch0mp

Member
Paleo goes strongly against mainstream recommendations - specifically saturated fat, grains and dairy (optional). It's never going to be in favour until that mindset changes.
 

Dre

Member
Just wanted to let you guys know that I have read everything you've replied to and I've been thinking it all over. I'm borderline obsessing over this stuff. I have so many questions but I can't keep asking you guys every little thing. And whenever I Google something, I just get more stressed out about things, find out something ELSE I can't have anymore.....and then I can't figure out where to eat in a hurry without knowing what kind of oil they use. Like....man....I have an Applebee's gift card, and yes I know it's a crappy restaurant but I want to use it and get something mostly paleo. I figure "oh I'll just get a steak and some veggies" but hell, that probably can't even work either because they probably use something that's not on the paleo diet. It's just so strict.

I just....I don't know. I feel like I can't eat anything at all anymore. I was thinking about making homemade chicken salad for lunches thinking mayo would be okay because it has eggs and is fatty. But of course, I can't do that either because mayo apparently has a lot of bad oils in it. And that's probably not fatty enough so I need to find something else.

Also, I'm not exercising. Yet. I can't even put together a daily food plan without getting stressed out, yet alone an exercise regimine, and I know NOTHING about that, either. I used to just run, but now I'm finding out that's bad for me and I should do mainly strength training.

Oh, and if I take fish oil pills, would that be okay as a substitute for not eating enough fish? The purpose of these pills is to get omega-3's, right? If I'm ever worried I'm not eating enough omega 3 (found mainly in fish, right?) and getting too much omega 6 (found in mostly every other meat, right?), would taking a pill be okay to do as a substitue? Sea food is expensive....I can't keep buying 8 dollar salmon filets and 15 dollar grass-fed steaks. Maybe I'm not wealthy enough to eat this way...

One more thing....(don't kill me!)......

If you could tell sum up into one sentence how to eat and feel my best in the Paleo fashion, what would it be? (example: Don't eat grains or sugar or products of these, and eat plenty of saturated fats and veggies).

Like, I just want assurance that I'm not going to cripple the whole POINT of the paleo diet if I follow it well for the most part, but then have something cooked in, oh I don't know, soybean oil, which is apparently terrible for me.

It's just so much to take in...........and I'm really discouraged right now. Cheer me up :(

I promise I'll lay off after this. Just wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening to anyone who does...

Your problem seems to be that you are trying to be perfect right from the start and that's not helping you at all. You need to relax and do it step by step, you're currently doing a transition from the standard American diet (SAD) to the paleo diet and expect to accomplish that over night, unfortunately that is not how it works, it takes a bit more time than that.

First step is always getting rid of all grains and sugars. Then ditch every other processed crap like bologna, boxed meal mixes and most vegetable oils. Vegetable oils are bad because they are mostly highly processed and oxidize at high temperature, that's why you should keep grass-fed butter (e.g. Kerrygold), ghee, coconut oil or animal fats for cooking at home.
Your ultimate goal is to buy/eat food not food products, i.e. don't buy your mayo in a jar, but do it yourself instead. Look at the pyramid from the OP if you need examples of foods you can buy or read paleo friendly ebooks/recipes and print them out if you need practical examples for meals. Just try to keep those in mind it might help you when you're at the grocery store.


Depending on where you live this diet might get expensive, but you can always buy frozen veggies/meat/fruits or canned fish to alleviate your expenses.

This diet is actually quite easy to follow, just don't be too hard on yourself, you'll eventually get there.

Ill watch the video when I get home tomorrow.

I was doing some more research and saw that US World and News ranked this at the worst possible diet?

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets

Like ch0mp said, US World and News is severely biased towards common knowledge and as long as they stand by it, this will never change.
If you want to know why that ranking is BS, you might want to read this long article from the founder of the paleo movement on that subject.

Dr. Cordain’s Rebuttal to U.S. News and World Report Top 20 Diets | The Paleo Diet
 

Dash27

Member
Some good and bad news, which is actually the same news for me:

Hovering at about 191 this past week or so. In that past week though I've been straying more than I usually do and with things I very rarely eat now like cookies and pizza. So the bad news is I stalled, but the good news is that looking at it another way, I maintained even while eating cheat foods.

Another thing I was thinking about is trying to get more fiber in my diet. Normally I eat a lot of raspberries, but they're not in season currently. Beans and grains are off my list. Looking at this list maybe I'll get some artichokes:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-fiber-foods/NU00582
 

percephone

Neo Member
Sorry should've clarified. Fast food for lunch whilst at work. I work in a CBD with virtually any type of food you can think of, I just can't seem to get away from meat & salad.

Beside making your own lunch, it's a problem. Most place use vegetable oil. I don't know how strict you want to be.

Chinese noodles place usually have some sort of paleo meal that you can make do with. Beef and brocoli, Ginger and green onion beef, five spice chicken, etc. without rice, noodles or sprouts.

Omellette from breakfast restaurants. Some have an all day breakfast menu. Omellette with spinach, ham, bacon, sausage, green onions.

Burgers wrapped in lettuce without bread. Surprised that some big chain actually do this.

Schawarma without the grains based sides. I like tabouleh and hummus so i usually cheat there.

I suggest you make or find a place to do your own lunch box. I'm lucky because there's such a place here. lelunchbox.ca/
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Careful with eggs at breakfast places--some of them mix in pancake batter so they're fluffier.

I experienced that this weekend. The gf and I ate breakfast at an Ihop. I got a bacon and cheese omelette with a side of pancakes. It's the first time I've had pancakes in two months, since I started paleo. While I thoroughly enjoyed them, holy crap did I feel it. I felt heavy soon afterwards, tired, even sleepy. You know, how most people feel after dining out. I recognized the feeling, but what struck me is how I had not felt it in a very long time. Not since changing my diet to paleo. And then later that night I had some mild stomach irritation due to gas. Nothing bad, but that's another feeling I hadn't had in many weeks.

The next morning I did some online reading about Ihops menu and saw that yes, they do indeed "pad" their eggs with pancake batter to make them fluffy or more full or whatever. So I had a shitload of pancakes in one morning, and wow did I feel it.

This whole paleo thing has opened my eyes to a lot of diet issues all around us, everyday. It's kind of fascinating.
 

MooseKing

Banned
Ill watch the video when I get home tomorrow.

I was doing some more research and saw that US World and News ranked this at the worst possible diet?

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets

Mayo clinic is starting to prescribe Ketogenic diets to their patients who suffer from various problems. Everything from diabetes, to obesity and seizures. Here is an example.

http://sharing.mayoclinic.org/2010/...-how-the-ketogenic-diet-stopped-her-seizures/

ketogenic and Paleo diets are not super far apart.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Scrambled or omelets

It's worth a shot to request them to not use it if you like those styles. Not sure if they could though.

I'll say this...the best diet from going out to eat is having a kid.

I haven't been out with the wife since November.
 
I recently decided to try this diet type out as the reduction of carbs seems like a generally positive move. I enjoy cooking and baking so I thought it would be great to try out a number of recipes using alternative bases (i.e. coconut and almond). For about a week everything was going well and the food tastes fantastic. Unfortunately, after the first week I started to get a persistent itching around the mouth and eyes, then last Friday I woke up with my eyes swollen almost completely shut and itching like nothing else. It took 2 days just for the swelling to go down.

Over that period I cut almonds out completely and haven't noticed any additional issues. I have eaten almonds throughout my life but generally wasn't to interested in them because they always had a metallic taste to them (warning 1) but just assumed that was the natural taste. I am guessing that I just accelerated a nut allergy and now I will probably have to avoid them completely. Unfortunately it was working so well with a lot of the recipes. I can still use coconut, but is it a viable alternative in most recipes (I know it isn't a direct 1:1 substitute), or should I just start looking for recipes that rely only on coconut flour?

In any case, I love the food selections and have only had a few cravings for more traditional carbs. Cooking has basically become my second job though!
 
Just coming in to say doing well on the diet and it's awesome. Dropped 20 pounds in last 6 weeks and I'm eating as much actual food as I want. I've been eating a few too many full Irish breakfasts though which isn't ideal since sausages and black/white pudding have wheat flour in them. I had a cheat meal last Friday, chinese takeaway and half a bag of Doritos on Saturday and holy shit did I feel the difference in just one day. It was only then that I noticed I had been feeling much better in general recently, less bloated etc. and my previously almost perpetual indigestion was gone. Amazing how much less I want to eat crap now. Keep up the good work people in this thread, there is definitely something to this.

Alos, story on ABC science about tooth decay in Mesolithic hunter gatherer tribes, sorry if old:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/02/18/3691558.htm

Mesolithic hunter-gatherers living on a meat-dominated, grain-free diet had much healthier mouths that we have today, with almost no cavities and gum disease-associated bacteria, a genetic study of ancient dental plaque has revealed.

The international team of researchers, led by a group at the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA, University of Adelaide, publish their findings in today's Nature Genetics .

The researchers extracted DNA from dental plaque from 34 prehistoric northern European human skeletons, and traced the changes in the nature of oral bacteria from the last hunter-gatherers to Neolithic and medieval farmers and modern individuals.

"Dental plaque represents the only easily accessible source of preserved human bacteria," says lead author Dr Christina Adler, now associate lecturer in dentistry at the University of Sydney.

The researchers found the composition of bacteria changed with the introduction of farming and again 150 years ago during the Industrial Revolution.

In contrast to the hunter-gatherer and early agriculturist diet, a modern diet full of refined carbohydrates and sugars has given us mouths dominated by cavity-causing bacteria.

"What we found was that the early [hunter-gatherer] groups really had a lot lower frequencies of any of the disease-associated bacteria compared to what you see today [and] that the number of species per person's mouth, or the diversity, was much higher in the past," says Adler.

"If they've got more [bacterial] diversity that means that those people's mouths were more resilient to stresses, and probably less likely to develop disease."
Gum disease and heart health

However, while the researchers noted that bacteria associated with dental cavities such as S. mutans became dominant around the time of the Industrial Revolution, the frequency of bacteria associated with periodontal diseases such as gingivitis has not changed much since farming began.

This may have implications for the notion that gum disease and associated bacteria are a significant contributor to the recent increase in conditions such as cardiovascular disease and atherosclerotic plaques, says co-author Professor Alan Cooper, director of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA.

"It has been suggested that the presence of this permanent inflammation state along the gums was promoting an immune inflammatory response, which in turn leads to cardiovascular disease," says Cooper.

"The idea was that a recent increase in the bacteria P. gingivalis [which causes gingivitis], was associated with the recent increases in cardiovascular disease, however we could show that this particular species has been fairly stable throughout the farming period."

The results will no doubt be good news for advocates of the so-called 'paleolithic diet' - high in meat, low in grains.

Cooper says it would be interesting to study the effects of the diet on the bacterial population of the mouths, particularly after reseeding with healthy bacteria.
 

Pyrokai

Member
GOOD ADVICE

GOOD ADVICE

GOOD ADVICE

GOOD ADVICE

Thanks for bringing me back to reality a little bit. Everything you guys have said has helped more than you think.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to start tracking what I eat and I can give you guys a break down of my protein, carbs, fats, sugar, etc. I think it will help me feel better and also get an idea of a caloric goal.

My main and (hopefully final) question regarding my worries is this:

-*-If I give this diet my all, but I'm simply not able to do it to the 80/20 extent, will I benefit from this? What I mean by this is that I know I'm simply not going to be able to do this even at 80% of the time. I can try my hardest to eat almonds, but I know I'm going to accidentally get some cooked in peanut oil some day. Or get some sushi that uses soy beans in some form (this happened today and I was upset, but then tried to remember what you guys say). Or eat some peanuts. Or have more than intended sugar from sugar-cured ham. I just KNOW it's going to happen ALL the time unaware to me or not, or when I'm in a pinch. So from the scientific angle, is it going to be doing me more harm than good to follow at 65-75% paleo diet (hopefully improving over time) and just try to decrease the forbidden foods whenever I'm able to do so? For example, right now I'm assuming my body is transferring from one running primarily on carbohydrates for energy to one that uses saturated fats as energy. Is it only going to benefit me to increase my fats in an all-or-nothing fashion? (or 80/20) . Will I STILL be better off by doing this even if my bad carbs are higher than a better Paleo eater than I am and I can only manage a 70% paleo diet?-*-

I think that question will put the majority of my concerns to rest. I just hope it makes sense. If the wording is at all the least bit fuzzy, please ask me to rephrase it. I'm not the most articulate person :p

SIDE QUESTION TIME!!

Are any of you guys a little scared about this being a total farse? What if this is NOT how we should be eating at all and we actually end up doing more harm to ourselves than if we just continued with the the more regular way of eating?

What are long-term vets of this diet feeling like now? Do you find you go "in and out" of paleo? Did it totally convert you? Do you feel and look better in general?

How do we view leftovers cooked in the microwave? Last night I cooked up 4 pork chops and enough broccoli and kale to last me for most of this week. I have to reheat it, obviously, when I go back to eat it. Is this a no-no? If so, why?

Thanks again guys for all your support :)
 
I also dabble in paleo. Meals are high in fat and protein. Nothing processed. Full fat diary (cheese for eggs and cottage cheese or greek yogurt). Coconut milk in everything as well. I used to eat nuts but i cut back to a serving of peanut buttet a day due to their high PUFA levels. Point is, im eating healthy and i feel great. And i do heavy compound lifts twice a week. Only fluid i drink is water.
 

bdouble

Member
SIDE QUESTION TIME!!
Are any of you guys a little scared about this being a total farse? What if this is NOT how we should be eating at all and we actually end up doing more harm to ourselves than if we just continued with the the more regular way of eating?

What are long-term vets of this diet feeling like now? Do you find you go "in and out" of paleo? Did it totally convert you? Do you feel and look better in general?

How do we view leftovers cooked in the microwave? Last night I cooked up 4 pork chops and enough broccoli and kale to last me for most of this week. I have to reheat it, obviously, when I go back to eat it. Is this a no-no? If so, why?

Thanks again guys for all your support :)

I've been paleo 6 months or so an won't ever look at food the same. It also happened to me when I realized that this whole system of life isn't really working out too well for humans as they are raping the earth at an alarming rate with factory mass produced pesticide spraying farms that are in no way renewable or efficient. So its more than just the "fad" diet to me. Its pretty obvious we shouldn't eat the chemicals and additives in the food if its only been tested for the past 30 years.

You are better looking at it from the other way and seeing how sick and fat people are when you really think about what you were eating before Paleo.

I'd avoid the microwave as much as possible. Best thing to do for reheat is wrap meat in foil and put in oven at a low temp or slice it up and put it in a frying pan. Same for the veggies just a bit of coconut oil and fry them up a bit.
 

Piecake

Member
Thanks for bringing me back to reality a little bit. Everything you guys have said has helped more than you think.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to start tracking what I eat and I can give you guys a break down of my protein, carbs, fats, sugar, etc. I think it will help me feel better and also get an idea of a caloric goal.

My main and (hopefully final) question regarding my worries is this:

-*-If I give this diet my all, but I'm simply not able to do it to the 80/20 extent, will I benefit from this? What I mean by this is that I know I'm simply not going to be able to do this even at 80% of the time. I can try my hardest to eat almonds, but I know I'm going to accidentally get some cooked in peanut oil some day. Or get some sushi that uses soy beans in some form (this happened today and I was upset, but then tried to remember what you guys say). Or eat some peanuts. Or have more than intended sugar from sugar-cured ham. I just KNOW it's going to happen ALL the time unaware to me or not, or when I'm in a pinch. So from the scientific angle, is it going to be doing me more harm than good to follow at 65-75% paleo diet (hopefully improving over time) and just try to decrease the forbidden foods whenever I'm able to do so? For example, right now I'm assuming my body is transferring from one running primarily on carbohydrates for energy to one that uses saturated fats as energy. Is it only going to benefit me to increase my fats in an all-or-nothing fashion? (or 80/20) . Will I STILL be better off by doing this even if my bad carbs are higher than a better Paleo eater than I am and I can only manage a 70% paleo diet?-*-

I think that question will put the majority of my concerns to rest. I just hope it makes sense. If the wording is at all the least bit fuzzy, please ask me to rephrase it. I'm not the most articulate person :p

SIDE QUESTION TIME!!

Are any of you guys a little scared about this being a total farse? What if this is NOT how we should be eating at all and we actually end up doing more harm to ourselves than if we just continued with the the more regular way of eating?

What are long-term vets of this diet feeling like now? Do you find you go "in and out" of paleo? Did it totally convert you? Do you feel and look better in general?

How do we view leftovers cooked in the microwave? Last night I cooked up 4 pork chops and enough broccoli and kale to last me for most of this week. I have to reheat it, obviously, when I go back to eat it. Is this a no-no? If so, why?

Thanks again guys for all your support :)

If you can only do 50/50 you will benefit. Simply reducing sugars and sugary drinks is HUGE. The higher that percentage goes, the better you will do. So its totally worth it to change your diet, even if its just reducing sugars and HFCS at first.

Well, on this diet I have lost weight, feel better, and my vitals are better. For example, I used to always get colds. Once i switched to primal, that stopped. So yea, I think this diet is the way to go for the rest of my life.

leftovers are perfectly fine. Dont really know why the microwave would be a problem.

You need to understand this, its not a pass fail diet. Its one of degrees. So if you go all out, but then lapse and have a piece of cake, dont worry about it. You didnt fail. You just need to recognize its bad and do better next time. From your posts, im worried that you'll slip up once and then say "OH NO, I am a failure!" and then abandon the diet. That is not what you want to do
 

eldoon

Member
I have done this diet mixed with cold thermogenesis and intermittent fasting for around 6-8 months
had a couple cheat days but now been on the wagon for the past 2 months.

Originally i lost about 20 pounds but now have gained that back plus more , however i am gaining a ton of muscle and all my clothing fits better.

Dont let the scale be anything more then a guide .

Worst experience on this diet was having a cheat day and eating a box of fries from kfc - i paid dearly the next day when my body started turning them into alcohol.
 

thirty

Banned
Went to Trader Joes today. Picked up some butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, eggs, etc.

In the morning I made some banana and egg pancakes. I drizzled them with a bit of agave syrup (is that paleo?). I didn't use any almond our coconut flour so they did fall apart but they tasted great.

Tonight I made a frittata with chicken sausage, mushrooms, garlic, onion, eggs, and coconut oil. Again, tasted amazing.

EQLr7SQ.jpg
 

Piecake

Member
Went to Trader Joes today. Picked up some butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, eggs, etc.

In the morning I made some banana and egg pancakes. I drizzled them with a bit of agave syrup (is that paleo?). I didn't use any almond our coconut flour so they did fall apart but they tasted great.

Tonight I made a frittata with chicken sausage, mushrooms, garlic, onion, eggs, and coconut oil. Again, tasted amazing.

EQLr7SQ.jpg

so thats what it looks like
 

Dre

Member
Thanks for bringing me back to reality a little bit. Everything you guys have said has helped more than you think.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to start tracking what I eat and I can give you guys a break down of my protein, carbs, fats, sugar, etc. I think it will help me feel better and also get an idea of a caloric goal.

My main and (hopefully final) question regarding my worries is this:

-*-If I give this diet my all, but I'm simply not able to do it to the 80/20 extent, will I benefit from this? What I mean by this is that I know I'm simply not going to be able to do this even at 80% of the time. I can try my hardest to eat almonds, but I know I'm going to accidentally get some cooked in peanut oil some day. Or get some sushi that uses soy beans in some form (this happened today and I was upset, but then tried to remember what you guys say). Or eat some peanuts. Or have more than intended sugar from sugar-cured ham. I just KNOW it's going to happen ALL the time unaware to me or not, or when I'm in a pinch. So from the scientific angle, is it going to be doing me more harm than good to follow at 65-75% paleo diet (hopefully improving over time) and just try to decrease the forbidden foods whenever I'm able to do so? For example, right now I'm assuming my body is transferring from one running primarily on carbohydrates for energy to one that uses saturated fats as energy. Is it only going to benefit me to increase my fats in an all-or-nothing fashion? (or 80/20) . Will I STILL be better off by doing this even if my bad carbs are higher than a better Paleo eater than I am and I can only manage a 70% paleo diet?-*-

I think that question will put the majority of my concerns to rest. I just hope it makes sense. If the wording is at all the least bit fuzzy, please ask me to rephrase it. I'm not the most articulate person :p

Even though I'm not a physician, I still think that you can benefit from paleo even if you don't do it as thoroughly as recommend (yet). Ditching grains and sugar alone will be a huge step towards a more healthy living.
Don't worry about almonds roasted in peanut oil or sushi with soy beans too much. As a matter of fact sushi with natto is actually acceptable, natto and tempeh are fermented and thus ok to eat, albeit disgusting for many people.
You can also alleviate most of the potential harms of bad PUFAs in vegetable oils with fish oil supplements, take 1 - 2mg of omega 3 PUFAs if you know that you cannot limit your intake of omega 6 enough to the correct ratio.
If you eat lots of vegetables and reasonable amounts of nuts and fruits (frozen berries are cheap and highly recommended) you'll will have enough anti-oxidants and other nutrients to benefit from your diet even though you are not yet able to follow paleo 80% of the time.
Focus on eating lots of the good stuff and accept that you might be eating things that aren't as good every now and then. Acknowledge your "mistakes" but don't let them get to you, you're still learning and you'll eventually get to the 80/20.

SIDE QUESTION TIME!!

Are any of you guys a little scared about this being a total farse? What if this is NOT how we should be eating at all and we actually end up doing more harm to ourselves than if we just continued with the the more regular way of eating?

What are long-term vets of this diet feeling like now? Do you find you go "in and out" of paleo? Did it totally convert you? Do you feel and look better in general?

How do we view leftovers cooked in the microwave? Last night I cooked up 4 pork chops and enough broccoli and kale to last me for most of this week. I have to reheat it, obviously, when I go back to eat it. Is this a no-no? If so, why?

Thanks again guys for all your support :)

Of course there is still a possibility that in 10 or 20 years scientific research might come to the conclusion that paleo is in fact not that good for your health, but IMHO this isn't very likely. Paleo makes a lot of sense if you look at the evolution of the human and his metabolism and that's why I'm relatively sure that a paleo lifestyle is key to a healthy life.

Regarding the microwave, personally I would avoid it, but since I'm a huge fan of raw veggies (I even eat raw broccoli, chard, spinach and brussel's sprout) others might think otherwise.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Went to Trader Joes today. Picked up some butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, eggs, etc.

In the morning I made some banana and egg pancakes. I drizzled them with a bit of agave syrup (is that paleo?). I didn't use any almond our coconut flour so they did fall apart but they tasted great.

Tonight I made a frittata with chicken sausage, mushrooms, garlic, onion, eggs, and coconut oil. Again, tasted amazing.

EQLr7SQ.jpg

No, Agave nectar is highly processed. It's no better than HFCS.

If you care about it being Paleo, then use raw honey (not the kind in a bear jar) or pure maple syrup, you should be able to find it in an organic section of a super market.


http://www.foodrenegade.com/agave-nectar-good-or-bad/
 

FryHole

Member
Of course there is still a possibility that in 10 or 20 years scientific research might come to the conclusion that paleo is in fact not that good for your health, but IMHO this isn't very likely. Paleo makes a lot of sense if you look at the evolution of the human and his metabolism and that's why I'm relatively sure that a paleo lifestyle is key to a healthy life.

This is one of the aspects of paleo that means it makes sense to me, even in the areas where the evidence isn't as strong as it could be (yet). It's a deliberate step backwards towards a time when we most likely fit as well into our ecological niche as other animals still do in the wild.

Paleo could indeed be shown to be not good for the health in subsequent research, but I'd put good money down that it won't, because it'd require that food that we lived on, that we evolved to exploit and that we most likely then thrived on, once adapted, isn't as good for us as a bunch of stuff invented in the last few thousand years (or the last few decades, in some cases). I just don't buy that it'll turn out we've been limping along on a sub-optimal diet for millions of years until we were fortunate enough to stumble across the invention of pasta and corn oil.
 
This is one of the aspects of paleo that means it makes sense to me, even in the areas where the evidence isn't as strong as it could be (yet). It's a deliberate step backwards towards a time when we most likely fit as well into our ecological niche as other animals still do in the wild.

Paleo could indeed be shown to be not good for the health in subsequent research, but I'd put good money down that it won't, because it'd require that food that we lived on, that we evolved to exploit and that we most likely then thrived on, once adapted, isn't as good for us as a bunch of stuff invented in the last few thousand years (or the last few decades, in some cases). I just don't buy that it'll turn out we've been limping along on a sub-optimal diet for millions of years until we were fortunate enough to stumble across the invention of pasta and corn oil.

Where I can see research discrediting parts of Paleo is the assumption that we wouldn't have adapted enough to more "modern" foods such as pasta and corn oil.
Afterall, the stomach and intestines has been evolving at a pretty great rate compared to the rest of the organs, so it's not unthinkable that we've also gotten adapted to diets that are carb rich - which, anecdotally, many Asians seem to be.
I remember that years ago carbs were pretty much universally frowned upon, but lately more and more paleologists have started to accept rice and other previously "banned" food items.
 

FryHole

Member
Where I can see research discrediting parts of Paleo is the assumption that we wouldn't have adapted enough to more "modern" foods such as pasta and corn oil.
Afterall, the stomach and intestines has been evolving at a pretty great rate compared to the rest of the organs, so it's not unthinkable that we've also gotten adapted to diets that are carb rich - which, anecdotally, many Asians seem to be.

Sure, dairy is the prime example, and I agree. But that'd be research showing modern food to be not so bad as Paleo (in its purest form) expects, rather than showing paleo itself to be unhealthy. Which is why I think it's a pretty safe bet - I can't see the latter happening.
 
Apart from genetic predispositions like celiac or lactose tolerance, you can adapt to certain diets which is why it causes you to be ill when you eat non-diet foods, not because those foods are bad.

Paleo is good marketing at work.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
In order for Paleo to proven as a legit way of life, doctors are going to have to prove the inflammation factor is the more important metric than overall cholesterol and triglyceride levels. I'm not sure how you do that other than having a control group and then slicing people open.
 

FryHole

Member
In order for Paleo to proven as a legit way of life, doctors are going to have to prove the inflammation factor is the more important metric than overall cholesterol and triglyceride levels. I'm not sure how you do that other than having a control group and then slicing people open.

I don't think it has to be that complicated, at least initially. Just take a bunch of overweight, unhealthy people and measure every damn marker implicated. Assign 1/3 to a control group where no intervention is taken, one to a paleo group (for the sake of the thought experiment let's pretend there is one true paleo diet we can assign) and one to whatever the current healthy diet recommendations are (low fat, whole grains etc). Run for a few years, monitor things like adherence and appetite via food diaries, measure markers again at the end. Basically this study, but with a paleo group

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=205916

Once we've (hopefully) established that it works as well as or better than what's currently considered a healthy diet, then we can argue about why! I like initial black-box approaches to experiments ie who cares how it works - does it bloody work?. If so, then try and tease apart the reasons why.
 
How so, other than that factor the diet is grounded in eliminating processed foods. There's nothing ground breaking there, it should be the foundation of any diet.
I don't see whole grain products as processed as white bread products or most fast food and junk food.

Unless you have some sort of gluten or wheat intolerance or are diabetic or some other disease you shouldn't have inflammation or water retention issues.

I have no problem with a relaxed form of the paleo diet.
 
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