Support NeoGAF

[Angry_Megalodon]

lol, Nintendo's efforts in patenting their game mechanics is finally comes to fruition, because they definitely don't want to experience another Genshin fiasco on their hand, where they can't do anything when Hoyoverse were allegedly using some of BotW's mechanics on Genshin, since they didn't patent the gameplay mechanics (they started doing it during TotK, though).

Then, Ubisoft might sue Nintendo for basically copy-pasting most of their open-world mechanics.

Genshin plays nothing like Zelda, those games could hardly be any more different. And no, Nintendo didn't invent the cartoon graphics, either.

This "Nintendo invented the world" shit needs to end.

 

[lame gag1990]

Worthless video game output these days, incredibly greedy and they've turned into a tyrant. They need to fuck off. Good luck to these guys.

 

[DryvBy]

Gaming forums and reddit users, witch is like the 1% gaming user base… And our opinion have 0% impact in court.

Except if they want to prove GG is coming to hurt everyone. Then we all matter! lol

 

[Utamaru1706]

Then, Ubisoft might sue Nintendo for basically copy-pasting most of their open-world mechanics.

Genshin plays nothing like Zelda, those games could hardly be any more different. And no, Nintendo didn't invent the cartoon graphics, either.

This "Nintendo invented the world" shit needs to end.

That depends whether Ubisoft patented their gameplay mechanics or not, and whether they want to go suing others IF they do patented it, since that would be a really easy case for them, considering how many games that were using the gameplay mechanics from their games.

Also, some people were calling out Genshin being a "BotW rip-off" during its early versions, because it uses some gameplay mechanics that were popularized by BotW, like the gliding traversal, free climbing, cooking for heals & buffs, or environmental effects (e.g grass burnt from fire).

But the game already evolved in many ways over the course of several years, it barely resembles BotW anymore, and the people who still think it's the same is either a really conservative person, a hater, or just a troll...

 

[ReyBrujo]

This "Nintendo invented the world" shit needs to end.

They don't need to have invented it, they just need to have been the first to patent it.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Also, some people were calling out Genshin being a "BotW rip-off" during its early versions, because it uses some gameplay mechanics that were popularized by BotW, like the gliding traversal, free climbing, cooking for heals & buffs, or environmental effects (e.g grass burnt from fire).

The only people saying that were rabid Pikmins. BOTW doesn't invent a single original mechanic. Everything is taken from other games, Nintendo's, and third parties. And that is fine because art is an iteration and nobody can claim ownership of a particular style, only concrete works.

What Nintendo is doing is wrong at all levels. If the other companies were as cunts as them, they wouldn't be able to make any games outside their legacy IPs, cos everything else would be patented by others. This is a lose-lose game.

Mihoyo has invented a gacha system that now is copied by everyone else, and they don't sue left and right, even if those are direct competitors. That's the market.

They don't need to have invented it, they just need to have been the first to patent it.

Technically yes, but this is a road that leads to the end of any creation because EVERYTHING is the inspiration of a previous work. Imagine that From Software patented their formula. How many games wouldn't be released?

People who defend this are beyond fanboyism.

 

[Utamaru1706]

The only people saying that were rabid Pikmins. BOTW doesn't invent a single original mechanic. Everything is taken from other games, Nintendo's, and third parties. And that is fine because art is an iteration and nobody can claim ownership of a particular style, only concrete works.

What Nintendo is doing is wrong at all levels. If the other companies were as cunts as them, they wouldn't be able to make any games outside their legacy IPs, cos everything else would be patented by others. This is a lose-lose game.

Mihoyo has invented a gacha system that now is copied by everyone else, and they don't sue left and right, even if those are direct competitors. That's the market.

Japan is definitely much stricter in terms of copyrights and patents compared to other countries, and video games are no different in this matter.

I mean, not a while ago Konami literally filed a case against Cygames with the same case like "Palworld vs Nintendo", because Konami felt Cygames were using gameplay mechanics from their Power Pros franchise that were first created & used by them for their Umamusume game, and Cygames didn't contact them to ask for permission, nor talking about terms & conditions (you could try google it about the case).

It's kinda wild, but I guess that's Japan for ya, lol...

 

[AngelMuffin]

Fuck ‘em!

 

[digital_ghost]

This is how Nintendo takes out its anger when someone makes a better Pokémon game than them.

 

[BlackTron]

Then, Ubisoft might sue Nintendo for basically copy-pasting most of their open-world mechanics.

Genshin plays nothing like Zelda, those games could hardly be any more different. And no, Nintendo didn't invent the cartoon graphics, either.

This "Nintendo invented the world" shit needs to end.

For Nintendo's sake, maybe they ought to hope the patent route doesn't work.

On the other hand, if it opens a precedent for Ubisoft to bitch, Nintendo's lawyers would just get more work.

Pocketpair could lose but "win" in the end by creating a giant permanent legal thorn in N's side of their own making.

Nintendo and Pocketpair's lawyers have probably shaken hands on it already!

 

[GigaBowser]

polworld lawyers will be crushed by yakuza im sorry my friends

 

[playbignbox]

This company really has a history of making unique and creative games...

 

[ReyBrujo]

Technically yes, but this is a road that leads to the end of any creation because EVERYTHING is the inspiration of a previous work.

That's how the patenting system works (especially in US). Ironically the system was created so that investments in creations are protected.

Imagine that From Software patented their formula. How many games wouldn't be released?

Counterfactually speaking we don't know how many new games and genres would have been created had studios not been able to just copy the formula. People complain about the large amount of metroidvanias and roguelites being released lately, had those studios been forced to innovate we could have gotten new and innovative games.

 

[Natsuko]

Didn't Pokemon blatantly ripoff tons of elements from Dragon Quest decades ago?

We are talking about patent law here and you are talking about copyright. According to copyright standards? Probably not.

I also find the comparison questionable. I know a lot of people are making it here. But I don't share that opinion. Many of the designs bear little resemblance, except that they are birds, for example. And the style is completely different in each case. Palworld is damn close to Pokémon. So close, my children called it Pokémon for the first few days. Because of the balls, similar characters etc. the difference is much less than the DQ / Pokémon designs. When Palworld came out back then, the visuals were a huge topic. Now many may say oh my god, they're taking them to court, why? Nintendo is evil. If we think back to the Palworld launch, the tenor was oh god, that's so similar, they'll sue for sure.

From a copyright point of view, everything may even fit. In the case of texts, sometimes only a little modification is made and it passes as an original work. But this is about patent law. It remains to be seen how the courts will decide.

By the way, I have played a few of these collectible monster games. Others manage to be a bit more unique. I found Palworld rather uninspired. They just threw survival into the mix. But even the system was nothing that hadn't already been seen elsewhere. Damn close to Ark. For me, Palworld is Ark meets Pokémon. Or an Ark in a Pokémon costume. The thing could probably have existed as an Ark mod. It's nice, but quickly forgotten.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Palworld should claim they're a parody of Pokemon, and therefore it's protected under first amendment.

 

[thief183]

A lot of ppl here are comparing images of the monsters, while in the meantime Nintendo is sueing for the ball mechanic, thing is, you can't really patent a trap, it is the same thing as throwing a net at an animal. In my opinion everything will end up with pallworld changing the ball system with something else.

 

[Closer]

A lot of ppl here are comparing images of the monsters, while in the meantime Nintendo is sueing for the ball mechanic, thing is, you can't really patent a trap, it is the same thing as throwing a net at an animal. In my opinion everything will end up with pallworld changing the ball system with something else.

You can patent anything you came up with yourself, that's how technology works.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

It's about the designs.

Anyone fooling themselves that it's a case of gameplay mechanic x against mechanic y infringement because of some legal jargon blah blah is deluded. This is how legalise works: use whatever tools you have to most easily get a win.

The designs have clearly been stolen -- everyone knows that -- and that's what's promoted the legal process.

I would say that not only have the designs been stolen but the theft of the IP has likely damaged the Pokemon brand.

The so called 'indie developer' (who has made millions $) pulling the standing up for the little guy... true creative people don't steal.

 

[Bashtee]

This company really has a history of making unique and creative games...

You copy what's successful. Thanks to you, the steam trailer for Craftopia got me hooked on a production line where whole cows are thrown into a boiling pot.

 

[Natsuko]

A lot of ppl here are comparing images of the monsters, while in the meantime Nintendo is sueing for the ball mechanic, thing is, you can't really patent a trap, it is the same thing as throwing a net at an animal. In my opinion everything will end up with pallworld changing the ball system with something else.

We are not talking about a net here either. A Pokéball is already quite specific. We already had this discussion yesterday in the other thread. The patent will maybe stand up in court because it is a very specific thing. We're not talking about broadly defined features such as monsters or catching them, but about catching them specifically with a ball. This is also difficult to compare with a net. Balls are not a common catching tool and more a fantasy thing.

 

[SweetTooth]

Then, Ubisoft might sue Nintendo for basically copy-pasting most of their open-world mechanics.

Genshin plays nothing like Zelda, those games could hardly be any more different. And no, Nintendo didn't invent the cartoon graphics, either.

This "Nintendo invented the world" shit needs to end.

True, Nintendo acting tough on small unknown studios. When big players come they will get scared easily and bugger off to whatever niche to milk their autistic man kids exactly like what happened after Gamecube when they felt like they can't compete with the big boys.. they created Wii and now relying completely on Switch.

They are going to be in for a rude awakening next-gen when the PC handhelds mature more and Sony and perhaps MS enter their space with full force!

I expect resorting to a theme park next, or reverting to their original form making playing cards

 

[SappYoda]

polworld lawyers will be crushed by yakuza im sorry my friends

If you scroll the page he blinks

 

[Natsuko]

True, Nintendo acting tough on small unknown studios. When big players come they will get scared easily and bugger off to whatever niche to milk their autistic man kids exactly like what happened after Gamecube when they felt like they can't compete with the big boys.. they created Wii and now relying completely on Switch.

They are going to be in for a rude awakening next-gen when the PC handhelds mature more and Sony and perhaps MS enter their space with full force!

I expect resorting to a theme park next, or reverting to their original form making playing cards

So where are the lawsuits against Nexomon, TemTem, Coromon and similar games?

 

[LordOcidax]

A lot of ppl here are comparing images of the monsters, while in the meantime Nintendo is sueing for the ball mechanic, thing is, you can't really patent a trap, it is the same thing as throwing a net at an animal. In my opinion everything will end up with pallworld changing the ball system with something else.

 

[FewRope]

So where are the lawsuits against Nexomon, TemTem, Coromon and similar games?

Such a good point, fuck Nintendo and if they win this is just the beginning

 

[thief183]

Are you telling me that I need to remove all the guntrap I have at home?

 

[thief183]

You can patent anything you came up with yourself, that's how technology works.

Well not really, I can't patent a window for example, I can patent a system to open it maybe, but you can't patent the (don't know the word in english) most common one.

I'm not sure if I explained myself well...

 

[SweetTooth]

So where are the lawsuits against Nexomon, TemTem, Coromon and similar games?

Maybe Nintendo waiting for them to get big before striking because the infringing of "gameplay" patent

 

[Natsuko]

Such a good point, fuck Nintendo and if they win this is just the beginning

Do you realise that the games mentioned are all older than Palworld? Perhaps Nintendo is not simply interested in similar designs and monsters that you can catch. Some reports have also mentioned several patents.

If Nintendo wanted to sue everyone who releases a game in which monsters can be caught: Why Palworld now and not the ones mentioned years ago? They are not unknown either. TemTem in particular was big. I may be wrong, but aren't all of these games available on the Switch? Nexomon, Nexomon 2 and Coromon for sure. I wasn't interested in TemTem, so I'd have to look it up first. I only discovered Nexomon because of the Switch.

Nexomon has some similarities in terms of the game system. However, the monsters are in their own style. And instead of balls, you throw Nexotraps. But it is similar to the older and classic Pokémon games. Even the soundtrack is reminds me of Pokémon.

 

[LordOcidax]

Are you telling me that I need to remove all the guntrap I have at home?

I think you don’t have clear idea what’s the point of patents and how they works…

 

[thief183]

We are not talking about a net here either. A Pokéball is already quite specific. We already had this discussion yesterday in the other thread. The patent will maybe stand up in court because it is a very specific thing. We're not talking about broadly defined features such as monsters or catching them, but about catching them specifically with a ball. This is also difficult to compare with a net. Balls are not a common catching tool and more a fantasy thing.

The ner was an example, cause I agree that the ball is specific, but they can use a cube and it works, looking at the patent you will notice that is the catching logic the has been under scrutiny, and that is the reason I don't agree.

If I launch a "cube" at something there will be a chance of success, and a logic behind it. As an example Nintendo patent the fact that the item you throw can be of different levels with different chances.

If they win the lawsuit I can see this being applied to anything, like loot, or rarity levels exc...

 

[Astray]

I personally root for Pocketpair here because I generally empathize with small businesses, however, Nintendo typically does its homework when it comes to legal tactics and legal work, so it's likely that this thing will end in a way that's satisfactory to them.

My non-informed opinion on this is: I anticipate this ending in some form of settlement and maybe a licensing agreement for the patents.

 

[FewRope]

Do you realise that the games mentioned are all older than Palworld? Perhaps Nintendo is not simply interested in similar designs and monsters that you can catch. Some reports have also mentioned several patents.

If Nintendo wanted to sue everyone who releases a game in which monsters can be caught: Why Palworld now and not the ones mentioned years ago? They are not unknown either. TemTem in particular was big. I may be wrong, but aren't all of these games available on the Switch? Nexomon, Nexomon 2 and Coromon for sure. I wasn't interested in TemTem, so I'd have to look it up first. I only discovered Nexomon because of the Switch.

Nexomon has some similarities in terms of the game system. However, the monsters are in their own style. And instead of balls, you throw Nexotraps. But it is similar to the older and classic Pokémon games. Even the soundtrack is reminds me of Pokémon.

And what about it? They are not suing because copyright of the design, they are doing because Palworld uses kinda a pokeball, thats a dangerous precedent

 

[thief183]

I think you don’t have clear idea what’s the point of patents and how they works…

I think you missed the irony...

 

[Natsuko]

Well not really, I can't patent a window for example, I can patent a system to open it maybe, but you can't patent the (don't know the word in english) most common one.

I'm not sure if I explained myself well...

And that is precisely the point. We're not talking about a ball or catching monsters here. We're talking about catching monsters with a ball and everything that goes with it in Pokémon. That's a bit more specific than there are monsters in both games and you collect them.

That's why it's not so certain that this really isn't a case that Nintendo can win. They haven't patented monsters or balls. We're talking about a detailed process of how these monsters are caught. There are even different coloured spheres in Palworld with different qualities in terms of the chance of catching them. Just like we've known from Pokémon for decades. Pokéball, Suberball, Hyperball, Masterball ... The Master Ball counterpart is the Ultimate Sphere.

 

[LordOcidax]

According to reports, it is probably about catching with the Pokéball or, in this case, the Pallsphere. However, other reports mention several patents. Someone in the other thread posted this a few hours ago.

Whether this is ultimately a violation will have to be decided by judges and not by the forum.

Nintendo is going to win easily…

 

[Natsuko]

And what about it? They are not suing because copyright of the design, they are doing because Palworld uses kinda a pokeball, thats a dangerous precedent

You obviously haven't read my posts, because I have pointed out more than once that this is not about copyright but patent law.

I also pointed out that there are various (well-known) games in which monsters are caught and then used to fight. Some here still insist that it is simply about the designs. If that were the case, why hasn't Nintendo sued the developers of TemTem, Nexomon and Coromon? Apparently Nintendo has even approved games reminiscent of Pokémon for its own hardware. I don't know why some people here keep harping on about monster designs. It's not about them and Palworld isn't the first game a la Pokémon. It was just particularly brazen in being a Pokémon (+Ark) clone. And may have infringed patents in the process. A court will sort that out or an agreement will be reached beforehand.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I love Nintendo but i hate them as well.

I'm less in love with them and hate most of their practices. They can make an oddball game that will appeal to an older than 10 kid but I stick to my principles and don't cave because THE NEXT GAME IN THAT FRANCHISE IS NOW IN 2K AND PORTABLE! Most people say will cave if there's a another portable Mario Kart or rehash times 10 because they sop up that Nintendo milk like sheep.

Every once in a while there's a game I legitimately want to play but let's be honest, Nintendo hasn't been "the best" since the SNES days. They have that Disney thing and that keeps them afloat with my kids. They get massacred in the games department by missing out a metric ton of games.

Now you have portable competition and PC HW which destroys what the limited little Nintendo phone can do. That is the real great thing is that we don't need a Nintedno portable anymore.

 

[OGM_Madness]

People complain about the large amount of metroidvanias and roguelites being released lately, had those studios been forced to innovate we could have gotten new and innovative games.

That’s like saying that new painters have to come up with new colors in order to paint.

“Sorry, red’s taken… blue too… nope, Da Vinci did Lime Green first. Sorry, Van Gogh use that particular shade of midnight blue.”

 

[ReyBrujo]

That’s like saying that new painters have to come up with new colors in order to paint.

Not really, it's what you do with the colors, not the colors themselves (which would be copyright or trademark). Cubism forced people to innovate, for example coming up with Futurism, Dada and Art Deco for example, and for the untrained eye they are vastly different.

 

[Guilty_AI]

People complain about the large amount of metroidvanias and roguelites being released lately, had those studios been forced to innovate we could have gotten new and innovative games.

Who are "people"? Because "people" are buying, playing and enjoying these roguelites and metroidvanias, in vast amounts. It's why they're popular to make to begin with.

 

[BlackTron]

Counterfactually speaking we don't know how many new games and genres would have been created had studios not been able to just copy the formula. People complain about the large amount of metroidvanias and roguelites being released lately, had those studios been forced to innovate we could have gotten new and innovative games.

I can't even.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Who are "people"?

Just talking after reading reactions here when new roguelites are announced at Nintendo Direct for example.

I can't even.

You don't need to.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Just talking after reading reactions here when new roguelites are announced at Nintendo Direct for example.

Reactions here are barely a representation of the public at large. There's a considerable market for metroidvanias and roguelites (proportionally of course), its why there's so many of them in the first place.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nintendo mad because they didn't copyright the jump button 40 years ago.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I love me some Nintendo. But man, sometimes I hate Nintendo.

 

[BlackTron]

Just talking after reading reactions here when new roguelites are announced at Nintendo Direct for example.

You don't need to.

I found the solution for all the old, bad platform games. Just patent it so we only have one, then those hundreds of other developers would have been forced to come up with their own idea.

I never would have had this epiphany without you. Imagine how many more distinct puzzle, top-down, shooter and RPG games we'd have had. Exactly one for every platformer ever released! In fact, I have proof. It's called math, and I have a calculator.

 

[Griffon]

Software patents need to die.
Like, delete this entire system, and the world would instantly be a better place.

Nintendo has to lose this. Anything else would set a scary precedent.

 

[LordOcidax]

Software patents need to die.
Like, delete this entire system, and the world would instantly be a better place.

Nintendo has to lose this. Anything else would set a scary precedent.

 

[Neff]

It's about the designs.

Feels like it. It's obvious to anyone how similar they are. Nintendo is chasing the patents because it'll give them a stronger case, but I suspect the real reason they have a problem is that the Palworld devs are shamelessly airlifting the aesthetic wholesale. It's a core part of the appeal of Nintendo's franchise, and they know it. Kids are gonna see Palworld and think 'Pokémon'.

If they'd gone with their own aesthetic and designs, they probably would be getting away with it.

Nintendo has to lose this. Anything else would set a scary precedent.

Complete and total opposite.