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Past and Future: Yoshio Sakamoto / Team Sakamoto

Boney

Banned
I've always respected the fact that Star Wars belongs (or belonged) to Lucas, and it was his to do with as he pleased, even if I didn't always agree with his decisions (I actually really like the prequel trilogy, despite its shortcomings, although I do have problems with some of his changes to the original trilogy). I could say the same for Sakamoto, although he's never really set a foot wrong with Metroid as far as I'm concerned. I could enjoy Other M's story for what it is- glossy, campy, unwisely self-indulgent shit, but the good more than outweighs the bad imo, and I'd even consider it one of the better games in the franchise.

I think it's important to respect the creator and their sense of creativity, and for them to follow new directions which interest them, even if they aren't necessarily in our best interests. When we start beating our chests and demanding that escapism adhere to a set of rules we've invented and creators fearfully follow suit, that's when art loses its vigor and culture stalls.
This is the reason why I have such a huge problem with people judging games based on what they aren't instead of what they [italic]are[/italic].
There are many elements that fans have decided are what Metroid is, based on some actual elements that appeared in other (but not all) Metrois games. Things like (non) linearity, oppressive alien environments and identifying with your lone space hunter are characteristics that have been so heavily ingrained as what the series is by some fan. But at it's core the series is not about that, these are just individual elements that comprised some games or personal emotional connection that became pop culture representation. The series mantra is to be an action adventure game in which it is possible to continue to transverse the environment by acquiring power ups. Developers always condense what the series is to the smallest amount of characteristics possible not to betray fans, but to surprise them and themselves in the creation of a new fresh sequel. As Neff said, this is the difference between actual creative process and focus tested industrialized design.

Traversing and non linearity aren't the same the same thing and non linearity isn't a trait that must be present in a Metroid game by definition. Non linearity, veiled linearity or straight linearity should never be used as an evaluation or criticism, the merit comes in how a specific games design the map, objectives and flow of the game. Take Other M for example, most corridors in the game were small puzzle rooms in which you had to use problem solving skills with environmental cues in order to keep advancing. Cracked glasses, air shafts, or hidden switches are used to engage the player in different activities in order to progress.

If we only used the core "acquire power ups to proceed" theme, every Metroid game fits, and should be judged by it's own merits instead of arbitrary rules of what it doesn't do. Fusion is the perfect example, it's first and foremost a cinematic game experience, which is incorporated both narratively with the help of exposition and "in game" with the clever use of brilliant set pieces and with an adaptative environment, which changes as you progress the game. The Metroid principle is still in tact, power ups are used to progress and solve puzzles, hidden routes and mapping are prevalent along with action elements to spice everything up. While Super Metroid's way of naturally guiding you through the environment is master class in design and one of the key reasons why it is a masterpiece, Fusion's deliberate and outspoken design helps characterization (of characters and environment) and allows for a more rigid rhythm for traversing, which is important for not just new players, but everybody in how we end up actually playing the game, it defines it's tempo in order to guide you through the several set pieces. There's this pervasive way of thinking that games, because they allow freedom should be designed as an open playground, in which the player, through his agency, needs to run around freely exploring. This is not the best nor the only way of creating game experiences. Linear game design allows for many other interesting things, and of course should never be expressed as a complete dichotomy, as they can be employed through different levels.

Of course I understand that at the end of the day, subjective tastes are what you judge a game, and one might not like a game specifically because you don't like those elements, but it's important to make the distinction because it doesn't make the game bad. As for Other M specifically, it's a flawed game, has a few problems in implementation and vestigial ideas along with a bad localization (in which Mr Sakamoto was over involved in my opinion). I do not know if the collaborative process dynamics were, but I'm not too convinced it was smooth integration of ideas. However, it was a very enjoyable game that really needed a sequel.

Gonna make a little addendum regarding controls. I've had a few discussions where I realized that dpad controls could be cumbersome for some because of how uncomfortable the dpad itself is physically, it being a problem in 2d games as well. The in game implementation was great because of a very smart Camara system integrated with mainly a 4 directional movement. They made it so it plays like a 2d game in a 3d environment, where the Camara pans and rotates to your movement while having "rails" that course corrected the direction to the relevant point of interest in the room.
Combat is also widely undermined. It is designed to be simple, just like other games in the series, but there's skill involved in the strategies to correctly and swiftly dispatching an enemy. If you are just dodging and shooting charge shots then it's like playing DMC by just using 3 x triangle combo, it's gonna be slow and tiring. Normal rapid fire shots at the foremost, which become an interesting mechanic in of itself when you're desperately trying to get one more shot in before having to charge and dodge the attack. Missiles in order to interrupt and stagger enemies, which work great due to the slow time mechanic (I realize this is also controversial because of the untraditional input from the player, necessitating coordination. I think it's great and works like a charm but if a sizeable amount of people couldn't get a hang of it then it is sadly bad implementation). Knowing when to fire a missile can get you a lethal attack really early. Knowing what benefits and vulnerabilities associated with freezing limbs or why is it important to do jumping attacks really speeds things up. It's not a combat focused game, so not using all the tools isn't gonna mean death, just halt all your momentum (and other M is a very strong momentum based game). Charge shots have the worst DPS output in the game and should be avoided for most enemies, sadly most people only ever used those. Combat is about keeping things brisk so you can keep going.

Having Wii remote only controls is a design philosophy, in which in limitations begets creativity. Everything is built around it and it was a fantastic implementation and one of the reasons why I think the game is so cool. I do however think there's a disconnect between simple intuitive and inviting control scheme and the complex over stimulating action that appears on screen. That was exactly what they were going for but that's an audience mismatch. People are gonna be either to intimidated by the visuals or will be bored by the simplicity.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
The hypocrisy is tangible.

Who are these fabled 71 critics whose opinions are more important than all others? Are they some sort of holy order?

The gameplay is uninspired tripe with no depth or compelling aspects to it whatsoever. A D-pad for use in a 3D environment was considered unfeasible in the 90s with the introduction to analog controls. Team Ninja told Sakamoto "Use the analog stick" to which Sakamoto said "Naw, d-pad FTW"

The combat is embarrassingly shallow with only dodge and shoot, both of which are almost completely automated by the game, requiring no skill from the player. Sense Move requires nothing more than mashing the D-Pad in one direction (it could even be in the direction of the attack or enemy for god's sake) and the absurd amount of invincibility will protect you from what has to be 98% of all attacks in the game. Not only that, dodging will immediately give you a full charge shot to attack with. Attacking is also uninteresting and bland because there is only shooting the one beam you get. It auto-aims, has excessive range, and the charge shot (made even easier to get via Sense Move) has an area of effect that envelope 1/4 of the zone around Samus to kill multiple enemies which eliminates the need to worry about managing multiple targets.

Wouldn't you know it? BOTH of these things were Sakamoto's ideas that he wouldn't budge on despite Team Ninja saying they were bad ideas. While I'm at it, here's a second link, this time Iwata Asks. Sakamoto acknowledges there's not enough buttons on the Wiimote to have more natural controls, so despite adding the nunchuk like the entirety of Team Ninja was telling him to, Sakamoto stuck to his guns and decided the solution was "automation", which gave us Other M's woefully boring, shallow, and unengaging combat.

Exploration, one of the biggest draws of Metroid was also scaled back. Why? Sakamoto of course!

"Metroid games have always been created so that players can sense where they should go next but that’s a skill of the veteran players and must be hard for newcomers
...
Giving clear cut directions in terms of where they should go next, through dialogue and drama scenes, is something that we thought would help with that."


The combat was boring, exploration was completely taken away from the player, and cutscenes were crammed down our throat instead. All of which was Sakamoto's doing. Every single fault and complaint that people level at Other M, storywise or gameplay-wise, all are because of Sakamoto. Yes, I am going to "besmirch" the hell out of Sakamoto for his outrageous stupidity and stubbornness that ruined this game before it even began and left a taint on one of the most compelling and creative franchises in Nintendo's library.

It's easier to lose trust than to gain it, and Sakamoto OBLITERATED the trust people had in him through his constant ignorance about 3D game design, ignorance HE HIMSELF ADMITTED TO HAVING.

WHOOPS!! MY BAD!! YA CAUGHT ME! All those links, quotes and explanations were bullshit! Turns out I don't like Other M or Sakamoto because Sakamoto hurt my Ice Queen Samus Waifu! And she didn't have a personality at all before.

Nope.
No
personality
here.
We
clearly
made
it
up.

(And only two of those are from the Primes.)

These points against Other M and Sakamoto come up in every topic about it. If you were ever going to give them credence beyond "you're just butthurt", you would have by now.
Holy crap. I had no idea all of the shitty aspects of the gameplay came from him (though I still held him responsible even if they were Team Ninja's ideas because it's ultimately his so-called "vision" and he's the friggin' director), as well as his horrible butchering of Samus and pathetic storytelling.

Dude's even worse than I thought. He deserves all the shit thrown at him and then some. smh
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
The hypocrisy is tangible.

Who are these fabled 71 critics whose opinions are more important than all others? Are they some sort of holy order?

The gameplay is uninspired tripe with no depth or compelling aspects to it whatsoever. A D-pad for use in a 3D environment was considered unfeasible in the 90s with the introduction to analog controls. Team Ninja told Sakamoto "Use the analog stick" to which Sakamoto said "Naw, d-pad FTW"

The combat is embarrassingly shallow with only dodge and shoot, both of which are almost completely automated by the game, requiring no skill from the player. Sense Move requires nothing more than mashing the D-Pad in one direction (it could even be in the direction of the attack or enemy for god's sake) and the absurd amount of invincibility will protect you from what has to be 98% of all attacks in the game. Not only that, dodging will immediately give you a full charge shot to attack with. Attacking is also uninteresting and bland because there is only shooting the one beam you get. It auto-aims, has excessive range, and the charge shot (made even easier to get via Sense Move) has an area of effect that envelope 1/4 of the zone around Samus to kill multiple enemies which eliminates the need to worry about managing multiple targets.

Wouldn't you know it? BOTH of these things were Sakamoto's ideas that he wouldn't budge on despite Team Ninja saying they were bad ideas. While I'm at it, here's a second link, this time Iwata Asks. Sakamoto acknowledges there's not enough buttons on the Wiimote to have more natural controls, so despite adding the nunchuk like the entirety of Team Ninja was telling him to, Sakamoto stuck to his guns and decided the solution was "automation", which gave us Other M's woefully boring, shallow, and unengaging combat.

Exploration, one of the biggest draws of Metroid was also scaled back. Why? Sakamoto of course!

"Metroid games have always been created so that players can sense where they should go next but that’s a skill of the veteran players and must be hard for newcomers
...
Giving clear cut directions in terms of where they should go next, through dialogue and drama scenes, is something that we thought would help with that."


The combat was boring, exploration was completely taken away from the player, and cutscenes were crammed down our throat instead. All of which was Sakamoto's doing. Every single fault and complaint that people level at Other M, storywise or gameplay-wise, all are because of Sakamoto. Yes, I am going to "besmirch" the hell out of Sakamoto for his outrageous stupidity and stubbornness that ruined this game before it even began and left a taint on one of the most compelling and creative franchises in Nintendo's library.

It's easier to lose trust than to gain it, and Sakamoto OBLITERATED the trust people had in him through his constant ignorance about 3D game design, ignorance HE HIMSELF ADMITTED TO HAVING.



WHOOPS!! MY BAD!! YA CAUGHT ME! All those links, quotes and explanations were bullshit! Turns out I don't like Other M or Sakamoto because Sakamoto hurt my Ice Queen Samus Waifu! And she didn't have a personality at all before.

Nope.
No
personality
here.
We
clearly
made
it
up.

(And only two of those are from the Primes.)

These points against Other M and Sakamoto come up in every topic about it. If you were ever going to give them credence beyond "you're just butthurt", you would have by now.


Some of this is fallible extrapolation. Much of the faults and failures of Other M, come from the collaboration of several companies trying to do whatever they were doing.

1. Why Wiimote only?
The game uses the d-pad because Sakamoto wanted a 2.5D Metroid from the beginning. This was also following the wave of all the successful Wiimote only games in Japan. Hayashi insisted the game should have 3D movement, which Sakamoto eventually agreed to, but the compromise was that it had to work with the wiimote.

2. Why linear.
Sakamoto developed Fusion and Zero Mission as two different flavors of Metroid. Fusion would be an action-based title that focused on more difficult bosses. While Zero Mission followed the non-linear Metroid formula. As a fan of classic Metroid, I loved both styles of gameplay. For Other M, it was clear that Sakamoto felt that Team Ninja would have an easier time emulating the point driven objectives of Fusion. Sakamoto was taking the train to Tokyo like twice a week to check in on the game. The Metroid art designer (morisawa) and map designer (hosokawa) were communicating through email. Team Ninja had experience making stylish action games, so there was really no one trustworthy of recreating a non-linear Metroid experience for Other M. Making it Fusion 2 was an intelligent idea on paper.

There were a lot of companies involved in this collaboration, and a lot of compromises and perhaps miscommunication between them. Metroid: Other M was an ambitious game in many ways, it's not surprising that it didn't completely work out.
 

Neff

Member
Combat is also widely undermined. It is designed to be simple, just like other games in the series, but there's skill involved in the strategies to correctly and swiftly dispatching an enemy. If you are just dodging and shooting charge shots then it's like playing DMC by just using 3 x triangle combo, it's gonna be slow and tiring.

Great post, but I liked this part the best. It's true that Other M's combat is simple, but the tools offered increase gameplay flow and empowerment significantly when efficiently harnessed.

The hypocrisy is tangible.

Like I said, I'm not the one motivated by hatred here.

The gameplay is uninspired tripe with no depth or compelling aspects to it whatsoever.

This is pretty much the kind of post I'm talking about. And If this were true, a) nobody would have liked the game, and b) you'd have killed every enemy, found every item, and beaten the game in record time with minimal effort on a first run, which I find difficult to believe.

WHOOPS!! MY BAD!! YA CAUGHT ME! All those links, quotes and explanations were bullshit! Turns out I don't like Other M or Sakamoto because Sakamoto hurt my Ice Queen Samus Waifu! And she didn't have a personality at all before.

With this acerbic, sarcastic reply, you simply sound like you're offering yourself up for this criteria, but hey. A backstory and character art doesn't align with or offer insight into her thought processes, motives, or speech syntax. Her perceived submissiveness and PTSD reaction are the chief offending categories in Samus' portrayal in Other M, and there was never any evidence in the past games to suggest that such behaviour was out of character, which for some reason clashed with the indistinct, fan-fashioned assertion that she's a 'badass'.
 
Other M showed her ptsd from the space pirate attack on her colony being triggered....

As Sakamoto and deer force wrote for the Metroid Comic book/origin story that was released as a promo to fusion (Some of the unlockable art work from fusion is from this)

That all of like.... 12 people know about, because like you said, no game ever actually dived into it until other m.

Those 12 people (Sup) have been waiting for the inevitable catastrophic moment when it was finally put in a game, and the reactions it would cause ever since the early 00's.

To be fair, its a pretty accurate depiction of a ptsd attack, aside from Samus actually being able to stop it before the replaying events concluded, and are nowhere near as.... demeaning as the events of the comic book, which were (And when reading this, remember how over the top you felt this scene was in other m) super over dramatized.

You actually are paralyzed as the process triggers something similar to an REM state, where the memories of the incident replay, and as people may not actually know, you are paralyzed during rem sleep, as you are during a ptsd attack (After words is a different story, and the person can be incredibly dangerous if they dont realize its over upon gaining functions again).

To be reasonable, who the hell would have been able to get what was going on from what was provided in game? You would have either had to have been one of the 12 people who read the comic, or be like, a nuerologist or something.

I was one of those 12 people lol
Loved ridley's portrayal in thay comic.
 

Datschge

Member
For Other M, it was clear that Sakamoto felt that Team Ninja would have an easier time emulating the point driven objectives of Fusion. Sakamoto was taking the train to Tokyo like twice a week to check in on the game. The Metroid art designer (morisawa) and map designer (hosokawa) were communicating through email.
And that's the amount of input Nintendo had on the game. While those three Metroid veterans were hands on within those means (and one can easily see their influence on the game when aware of them) it was clearly not an optimal approach. An outside developer was likely chosen since there wasn't enough staff available internally. Now with this outsourcing being widely considered a failed effort (and no possibility for internal development) I guess we shouldn't expect another Metroid again anytime soon, unless there is a push for another one at Retro again.
 

Tuck

Member
You speak as if this strong emotional reaction was a positive thing.

Sure, Sakamoto made with Other M an "unforgettable" experience, I'll give him that. But it's an unforgettable one in the same way The Room is one too: because of the train wreck effect.

If Metroid ain't getting a reboot I really wish Other M would be written off canon.

A reboot would mean eliminating four great games including some absolutely insanely memorable moments.

I'd just write Other M off as not-canon (Or semi-canon, i.e similar events unfolded but not exactly as portrayed in the game). Not that Nintendo would ever do that.
 
The plot points of Other M, actual writing quality and characterization aside, don't really fuck around with the overall series' lore for the most part since a lot of it was just building on what had been alluded to years earlier in Fusion. Either set a game before Other M/Fusion if you don't want an emphasis on the Federation's seedy underbelly or way after those games to the point where whatever was meant to happen there is irrelevant and dealt with; a reboot seems like an excessive way to fix what could instead just be fixed by moving far away from the writing style of M:OM.

Going off recent interviews about the franchise that only seem to acknowledge the existence of Super and Prime-style games, I imagine whatever comes next in Metroid won't be anything like Other M presentation/plot-wise and that game will just be the outlier when you look at Samus as a character throughout the series. Franchises with a much bigger emphasis on story-telling have survived having terrible plots remaining 'canon' in their lore.

It's really weird going over this thread how much I'm defending Other M's right to exist when I really do think it's tied with DK64 as one of the worst Nintendo published games in otherwise high-quality franchises.
 

Lunar15

Member
Eh, the story was bad in Other M, but the gameplay wasn't that great either. Gonna pin that on Team Ninja, for Sakamoto's sake. I don't buy the whole "people don't like it because it's not a good Metroid!" argument. Even if you don't look at it like a Metroid, it's a pretty mediocre action game. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't good or up to any of the standards we're used to for *most* Nintendo games, or even Team Ninja's older action games. Honestly, if the gameplay had anything that great behind it, you'd hear a lot less arguing about the story. But since it's weak, all there really is to talk about is how bad the story was.

All that said, I love Sakamoto's stuff and I think he's got a good mind for out-there projects. I'd love to see more stuff like Wario Ware and Rhythm Heaven. I hated Other M, but there's no goodwill lost there.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
I think it would be really interesting to see the wide array of characters and locations from the WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven series in something like a Mother styled rpg. That kind of setting could also allow Sakamoto's humorous side to shine, when it comes to the writing.
 
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