KANYE WEST
Banned
I can't even imagine paying to play games online lol you guys are getting ripped off big time.
PCs are better than consoles argument tree
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Krappadizzle
Member
Ripped off might be a bit of an overstatement imo. At least "free" games are given from MSFT and Sony every month and with MSFT you can at least keep the games you get from GWG. But it is a bit silly that you have to pay to play a game online that you've already payed for.
This is satire guys.
Although I don't doubt there's some people that probably think like this.
PC is where you get the most of those. There's no modern platform where you can get more AAA games than the PC. The reason for this is both backwardscompatibility, console manufacturers fighting for some way to differentiate their system and developers that have chosen to focus on PC.
Backwardscompatibility means that games like Skyrim, Quake, Grand Theft Auto and other older AAA titles are still oftentimes playable on modern systems. When Microsoft makes a deal to get Ryse or Dead Rising 3 on their system or choose to support the PC with games like Halo Wars 2, or when Nintendo gets Sonic Lost World on Wii U, it (sometimes) means the games in question are kept from other consoles, but still appear on PC. In addition you have developers supporting PC with their own AAA games whether they are Star Craft 2, XCOM 2, WoW or Star Citizen.
What that comes down to is that in pure numbers PC has more AAA games than either XO, PS4 or Wii U.
alexandros
Banned
Again, and it's important that everyone understands this: the "PC Master Race" was popularized as a term by a prominent Youtuber in order to mock the PC elitists. It was used as a derogatory term against PC gamers. Then part of the community appropriated the term and the related imagery as a means of mocking the person that came up with it. The term "master race" wasn't at all a thing until that idiot Yahtzee thought it was funny to use it. If you want to blame someone, blame him.
That tree argument website is pretty annoying to browse.
I have to say, after two generations and about 15 years I finally got back to PC gaming this year and it's amazing. It feels like next gen, the gen after PS4.
Pros for PCs
- so much more power, as much as you're willing to pay for
- steam, ok it's DRM but the backlog is what makes it worth it
- cheaper games when on sale. Goodbye $50-60 games. My buy in price is about $20 now.
- getting stacks of ports, most of them with good graphical options. I don't think last gen on PC had this many ports - being able to get things like Way of the Samurai 4, Fairy Fencer F, Dynasty Warriors games is just incredible (most of which were console only) Here's to more PC ports
- a range of control inputs supported. I was pretty mad PS4 needed a new Logitech wheel to play Driveclub even tho the game doesn't really need it. There's so many games on PC that support G27 that I don't have to worry about that - Project Cars, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally
-1440p and higher and 144hz FTW
- best VR coming
- indies are cheap on PC and there's way more choice
Cons for PCs
- higher entry level price for hardware. Sure you could get an entry level PC for $500 but you probably need a monitor too which will be another $100-200 and the PC will only offer mid tier PS4 graphics. For best price/performance ratio the average gamer needs to jump to the GTX970 level which would probably cost $1000 for the PC. Not cheap
- have to sit at a desk for some PC games that require KB and mouse. I can see how some could play KB and mouse on a couch but that's weird for me. I have my PC on a desk and it's not something I would consider moving around.
Pros for consoles
- couch gaming
- exclusive titles, doubt things like Yakuza or Project Zero or Mario are coming anytime soon
- handhelds are still awesome and better than mobile gaming
Cons for consoles
- limited graphically, now that I have a PC and with the consoles being built on x86 architecture it feels directly comparable and there's no reason to get the console version
- higher prices especially for Nintendo stuff
- digital store front UIs are horrible!
- u have to pay for online! Bizarre concept.
I have to say, after two generations and about 15 years I finally got back to PC gaming this year and it's amazing. It feels like next gen, the gen after PS4.
Pros for PCs
- so much more power, as much as you're willing to pay for
- steam, ok it's DRM but the backlog is what makes it worth it
- cheaper games when on sale. Goodbye $50-60 games. My buy in price is about $20 now.
- getting stacks of ports, most of them with good graphical options. I don't think last gen on PC had this many ports - being able to get things like Way of the Samurai 4, Fairy Fencer F, Dynasty Warriors games is just incredible (most of which were console only) Here's to more PC ports
- a range of control inputs supported. I was pretty mad PS4 needed a new Logitech wheel to play Driveclub even tho the game doesn't really need it. There's so many games on PC that support G27 that I don't have to worry about that - Project Cars, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally
-1440p and higher and 144hz FTW
- best VR coming
- indies are cheap on PC and there's way more choice
Cons for PCs
- higher entry level price for hardware. Sure you could get an entry level PC for $500 but you probably need a monitor too which will be another $100-200 and the PC will only offer mid tier PS4 graphics. For best price/performance ratio the average gamer needs to jump to the GTX970 level which would probably cost $1000 for the PC. Not cheap
- have to sit at a desk for some PC games that require KB and mouse. I can see how some could play KB and mouse on a couch but that's weird for me. I have my PC on a desk and it's not something I would consider moving around.
Pros for consoles
- couch gaming
- exclusive titles, doubt things like Yakuza or Project Zero or Mario are coming anytime soon
- handhelds are still awesome and better than mobile gaming
Cons for consoles
- limited graphically, now that I have a PC and with the consoles being built on x86 architecture it feels directly comparable and there's no reason to get the console version
- higher prices especially for Nintendo stuff
- digital store front UIs are horrible!
- u have to pay for online! Bizarre concept.
glassgannon
Banned
i seriously wonder if the online fee hyperbole will remain if valve ever hinted at such a thing...
in any case.free is pointless if it lobbies arent filled like consoles.
i dont see this in any of the pc cons. the online activity is extremely concentrated within a few games
in any case.free is pointless if it lobbies arent filled like consoles.
i dont see this in any of the pc cons. the online activity is extremely concentrated within a few games
Gus tha God
Banned
I know. It's like the iPhone doesn't exist.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I couch game with my PC; it's not something that is exclusive to consoles. I personally haven't sat at a desk since around 2001-ish? I actually bought a new desk for an apartment I rented like 5 years ago it literally just sat there with random junk piled ontop of it for three years until I moved and gave it away.
-Wireless Keyboards and Mouse have been a thing for a while..
-Wireless 360 pad support on PC has been a thing for a while now.
-Steam Controller is coming out very soon and that soles a whole slew of complaints.
Also, as for Mario. Every single Mario game outside of Wii U titles is currently playable on PC via Emulation.
I totally get that PC gaming is viable on the couch. What I was referring to is that I feel like there's an optimal setup for some games, some are better with KB and mouse and on the desk as well as being closer to the monitor and other games better on the couch. That's a pro for the PC I suppose that it can do both. The only problem is that I don't really feel like moving my PC around as my TV is far from the PC and not everybody can have them next to each other.
That Mario argument doesn't hold, you could say that about every console game that can be emulated. It's still available first for consoles and I don't really see that many people buying a PC so they can emulate exclusive console games.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Consoles still have the much better exclusives to me. Just nothing in the PC world that can match the Marios and Halos and the mountains of Sony exclusives out there. With the PS4 getting pretty much all the great indies that come out these days I've stopped PC gaming besides my emulators every now and again.
PC gaming is definitely in a good place though. Financially anyway. I still think PCs in the 90s / early 2000s had the exclusive software that scorches what is out there these days.
PC gaming is definitely in a good place though. Financially anyway. I still think PCs in the 90s / early 2000s had the exclusive software that scorches what is out there these days.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Yeah, I know. That's kind of the point.
It really doesn't matter if it's there first; a game, regardless of age, is always new to the next person. Backwards compatibility is a major reason why I game on PC; emulation adds to the longevity in my eyes.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
It is not bloat-free. The bloat-free version would be:
Cool.
Personally, I prefer consoles (and handhelds) by a huge margin. If given the choice of playing a game for one euro on a PC I already own or to buy it full price for a console I do not yet own, I'd choose the latter.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Which usually amounts to piracy and certainly is not endorsed by the copyright owner. Not a good argument imo.
Krappadizzle
Member
It's your money, you're free to waste it how you want. But this is odd to me. Let's use Dishonored for PS4 as an example. You'd rather pay $60 for a game that runs worse, years later on a new system than pay $1 for a better running version of the same game?
Please explain as I think I misunderstood.
There are ways. But I wouldn't say it's ideal. People do have custom lapboards and what not, but kb/m is not ideal for most couch gaming, depending on the game that is. But more often than not it's not ideal for Average Joe.
glassgannon
Banned
how to you comfortably play on a couch with k&b?
glassgannon
Banned
I dont see it as ideal for any kind of joe...
even laptops are uncomfortable on a couch
and the guy claims to be couch gaming since 2001 on a pc...most pc exclusives even to this day are designed solely around k&b controls.
Can we establish that the majority of console gamers actively dislike PC gaming and PC gamers? At least that's what this thread (anectodically) shows. Even the whole "PC Master Race!? NAZISSSSM!" argument was brought in by someone who prefers consoles over PCs.
So, really, what's the point of this topic? To play the victim and stealthily try to establish console superiority? OK.
So, really, what's the point of this topic? To play the victim and stealthily try to establish console superiority? OK.
Good thing there's thing called Steam Controller that addresses exactly that.
No.
You're going to need more data than a couple angry posters on GAF. Should I go to the PC gaming subreddit and use that as proof that the majority of PC gamers hate console gamers? I could, but I'd be really fucking dumb to do something like that.
glassgannon
Banned
that wont mean crap unless alot of those games are designed around controller input.
workarounds similar to steam controller have existed for a while.
honestly it makes the experience worse.
LQX
Member
I have always been a console and PC gamer and going back and fourth has never really been an issue but I'm having a harder time doing it this gen. You would think it would be less daunting with the graphics being more comparable this gen but but the glaring faults seem to stand out much more. I just recently tried Battlefront on both the PC and XB1 and the XB1 performance and graphics is just so terrible in comparison.
The whole point of the controller is emulating a keyboard and mouse. Hell, technically speaking, the hardware is exactly that: a keyboard and a mouse. The games dont need to be designed around controller input because thats not what they're doing.
HOLD up!
Steam is not DRM. There are plenty of games on Steam that are DRM free.
This is a common misconception and I have no idea why it exists when it is unequivocally false.
alexandros
Banned
I think we should avoid painting everyone with such a broad brush. In my opinion and through my personal observations the "PC Master Race" thing is indeed mostly used by hardcore console fans as a means of defence against various arguments. I have no doubt that part of the hardcore PC fanbase would use it unironically given the chance, but it is rightly a banned term here so they don't get the chance to do so. It is much easier to dismiss an argument by accusing the other party of "elitism" than it is to actually defend your position with arguments.
glassgannon
Banned
eh.... my point is , even a ds4 can emulate a mouse and keyboard.but playing kb+m only games with it is still a big fat chore
do you honestly think itll be half as comfortable or accurate as using a keyboard and mouse , enough to replace or top the use of a kb+m?
Call Me A Hero
Member
PC gamers still can enjoy couch gaming with any controller or mouse they want to use which is another pro to be added for PC gaming, more options.
The Red Wizard
Member
Yes because the trackpads are designed to emulate a mouse, unlike analog sticks. The DS4 may emulate a mouse but the Steam controller pretty much is one.
Impressions have been largely positive on the Steam controller so far. We obviously won't know until more people have them, and you're not gonna be a god at CSGO and Dota 2 on the thing. But it seems flexible and versatile enough that people will find comfortable layouts and bindings that will be solid for a lot of games. It has a lot of great sharing tools for the community to help each other figure the best layouts for games too.
The trackpad layout on that controller still seems far and above anything sticks could do to emulate a mouse. So it's not really the same case. I don't think people expect this thing to replace KB&M on the most competitive games out there, and hell why would you? You should want the most precise and accurate input methods for those games. It's why they don't exist on consoles. But there's millions of people that play Civ, Paradox games, TF2, and other less intense mouse driven games where it can provide a comfortable alternative that currently does not exist.
Rawket Lawnchair
Member
lol
diggmcbadass
Member
I get how people can dislike gaming on PC. Especially the hard requirement of going door to door, trying to convert peasants, followed by hours of mandatory posting of memes on /r/pcmasterrace. Some days I wonder if the blinding beacon of rapidly flashing led lights from the gigantic full tower that sits as the center piece of my living room is even worth it, but then I read a thread like this and see that all our collective, singular purposed work under the banner of the PC Gaming Community is having an impact on people after all.
glassgannon
Banned
well ds4 has a trackpad too...sure it may not be as good as one deigned to emulate a mouse , but it emulates a mouse none the less.
the problem is most of the times the mouse only games like rts's and mmo's involve a lot of precise inputs that i cant see not getting annoying with a trackpad.Its one alternative yes, but far from a solution.
so are laptop trackpads....and i hope youre not suggesting that theyre good substitutes to a mouse for gaming.
I know he's banned, but this really bugs me - The misconception that PC gaming is all about the 4k 120fps water cooled sick rigs. But that's just one way to game on PC.
PC is a goddamn indie heaven. You can, on your normal modern work PC or laptop (i.e - for exactly 0 American Dollars) play hundreds of great indies that are released all the time for PC because of how open it is. Probably 99% of console gamers in this thread can buy and play Undertale right now (and they totally should BTW).
High end PC gaming is great, but at the lower ends there are some of the best games ever released in quantities that are simply baffling. What I'm getting at is that everyone is potentially also a PC gamer, and with the wealth of titles at very low prices I still don't get why some people still insist that PC gaming is not inclusive or has a high price of entry.
poodaddy
Gold Member
This is the only argument about it that needs to happen:
Yup. There's no quicker way to spot a jackass then seeing them slight someone else for their platform of choice. Let's just play some damn video games people. Between my wife, daughter, and I my family games on PS1 through 4 and Vita, 3DS, two gaming PC's(laptop and desktop), Xbone and X360, Wii, and Wii U. In my opinion every platform has their own strengths and I'm fairly sure my daughter would never forgive me if I were to choose only one platform for the next generation. Just let people play on what they wanna play on; how's it affecting your enjoyment on your platform if someone else plays on a different one? Who gives a shit what you think is superior, if you like what you like then play the game on what you like. Hell even if the only thing that makes you think that your platform is superior is the color of the main menu when you start up the console; if that color makes you happy then it's subjectively true for you that the platform you're playing on is the one you should be playing on.
poodaddy
Gold Member
This smacks of disdain for the PC gaming community based on the behavior and vitriol of a very vocal minority. It's less than subtle, and it speaks volumes about you and how you feel about stereotypes and "team" mentality. Be better than that; you're certainly more than intelligent enough to do so.
alexandros
Banned
I don't understand this sort of argument at all. This is a gaming forum, people discuss all aspects of gaming and the choice of platform is an important part of it.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Ahh, that's your bad for not reading what I wrote. I said I haven't sat at a desk for PC gaming use since around 2001.
I've been couch gaming on PC since I got my first wireless mouse; Logitech VX Revolution. Wireless adapter for 360 controller was around that time as well.
Right now I have a laptop which I use on the couch; I also have a wireless Logitech K800 Keyboard and a G700 Wireless mouse that I use. It's just completely natural to me now, I'd feel weird sitting at a desk. It's ideal for me.
If you reach a specific age you're automatically done with PC gaming. It is too much hassle for a family man to waste time with driver updates, get you settings right, upgrade your hardware and so on just to play some games. I saw this with my family and friends. For example my younger cousin was PC fan from the beginning when he was 12 or so. He was it over 10 years and he had invested so much time and money to upgrade his PC with the newest stuff. Now he is working full time at a big german coorperation and has absolutely no time for this anymore so he sold his PC and kept only his PS4 so he can play some rounds from time to time.
I'm in the same boat and 10 years older than him. I was done with PC gaming when PS3 launched because I reached a point where I just wanted that the games are working. And only consoles can give you that hassle-free plug-in-play feeling imo. So no, PCs are not always better than consoles even if they have more power and freedom because sometimes it's not about power or freedom sometimes it just needs to work.
I'm in the same boat and 10 years older than him. I was done with PC gaming when PS3 launched because I reached a point where I just wanted that the games are working. And only consoles can give you that hassle-free plug-in-play feeling imo. So no, PCs are not always better than consoles even if they have more power and freedom because sometimes it's not about power or freedom sometimes it just needs to work.
alexandros
Banned
I find that the exact opposite is true. If you reach a specific age when you don't have the time to play all the games out there but you do have disposable income, you want to get the best possible experience out of the little time that you have available for your hobby. Not to mention that the convenience of playing poart of your gaming library on the road with a laptop is truly a godsend for people who travel a lot.
Boombox On
Member
Just to be clear, you thought PC gaming was too much of a hassle and bought a PS3?
Krappadizzle
Member
Your argument would hold more clout if you were talking about handheld gaming and the quick pick up and put down nature of them. Having time to play console games and not having time to play PC games makes no sense. If you play the same game on either platform your still spending the same amount of time playing the same game.
The Red Wizard
Member
The DS4 trackpad isn't well placed to emulate a mouse effectively. The Steam controller's trackpads are not only better placed but they can be used to emulate different devices, including trackballs. This makes them good substitutes for mice in gaming. Go through the Steam controller thread and you'll see that it is indeed a viable alternative.
I'm 37 and only just got into PC gaming. I took the plunge about 8 weeks ago and had a PC built for me with the single use for it to sit under my TV and play games, with light Internet use. I also had a PS4. I say had as I'm trying now to sell it!
Yeah there has been a learning curve... Not everything has worked first time. But it's not difficult to do Google search or join a forum to get advice, even at my age ;-)
I work full time as well... With family and kids... But we all love the new PC and I'm playing games such as arma 3 right now. I believe consoles are great as I've been a console gamer all my life but it's wrong to say PC is hard work, you need a desk etc etc...
You need a PC, a hdmi cable a comfy sofa and you're good to go.
You do understand that the DS4 trackpad is not even remotely comparable right? Like they shouldn't even be in the same conversation. It's clear you have little knowledge of the controller other than that it has trackpads. I suggest reading some impressions in the thread here or actually informing yourself. Otherwise this conversation is pointless.
In fact this entire thread is the same thing regurgitated every month under a different title or bait OP. Someone brings up something about PC gaming in general and we just circle back to the same argument of convenience being the most important thing, "messing around installing drivers for every game," various drive by posts of PC gaming is too expensive, "all my friends are on consoles," PC has no exclusives worth a shit, everyone is a master race elitist asshole, and the good ol' outdated comfy couch thing, among others.
Doesn't sound like you've followed this well.
The PS4 touch pad does not function the same as the Steam Controller, and the trackpad of the Steam Controller are not the same as laptop trackpads. The big sell is trackball simulation thanks to the haptics and software/firmware. The sensation of using it is that of moving a literal ball in the controller. It has simulated mass, size, and from that it gives momentum and the ability to be flicked around and brought to an appropriate stop, whether by the thumb or just the momentum running out.
The result is a lot more control over 1:1 velocity based movements with larger movements than the surface area of the pad could support if it was behaving as a normal touchpad.
Better still, is being able to blend two of these together when playing mouse centric games
The trackpads on the Steam Controller are very different. They provide haptic feedback which totally changes the way they feel compared to a normal trackpad. Seems to work great.
I pay and have no regrets, I also get some great free games like Rocket League.
Happy with my ps4, pc is for work =)
If anything, the online is the free component, since Ps+ was already providing games if you pay the sub fee back on ps3
diggmcbadass
Member
This was pretty much my point, though I can see that it was somewhat clumsy satire on my part. I think the breadth of demographics and genres that people tend to lump into the big pile of "pc gamers" is an artificial construct, unfortunately perputated (willingly or accidentally) by stuff like /r/pcmasterrace. While there might be an overlap of individuals, communities on PC are mostly limited to the specific games or genres that they deal with. The CS:GO community is probably very different from the racing sim community or the Rust community, or any other example of a PC focused community.
The biggest clashes between PC and console probably happens in the realm of multiplat AAA games, but those are just a small piece of the giant pie that is PC gaming. Unfortunately that is also the arena for hardware elitism and heavy marketing, which tends to bring out fanboy-type discourse.
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