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[Fenderputty]

When will democrats learn: we don't want fucking incremental change!

When will these berniecrats learn. The legislative process don't give a fuck

Good for her. Don't underestimate her--she's brilliant.

Single-payer is a huge payroll tax increase that looks awful to most citizens. Start small: fix the ACA, bring in public option, then years down the road move to single-payer.

Jumping instantly to single-payer is a horrible idea and I'm not surprised Bernie is doing it. It could potentially destroy any positive movement in this area.

This. Go for the public option

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

By what measures? The recent CBO scores of the various Republican healthcare proposals stated that the ACA markets are stable.

The biggest threat atm is from the current administration's shenanigans.

That's exactly the issue. The fact that the executive branch can withhold payments that can seriously harm the markets show one of the many faults in the ACA (and of the executive branch too). I would rather see a full effort movement on moving to single payer now instead of 30 years when the Dems aren't afraid of their shadows anymore.

edit: Yes yes incremental change is most likely the outcome as long as we all don't die.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

When will democrats learn: we don't want fucking incremental change!

When will people learn that the American government prevents rapid change by design so it practically forces only incremental change?

 

[Plinko]

The bill is being introduced tomorrow

Except Bernie already said they will look at the amount of tax increase later. Stupid move.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Good for her. Don't underestimate her--she's brilliant.

Single-payer is a huge payroll tax increase that looks awful to most citizens. Start small: fix the ACA, bring in public option, then years down the road move to single-payer.

Jumping instantly to single-payer is a horrible idea and I'm not surprised Bernie is doing it. It could potentially destroy any positive movement in this area.

Big Bang approach will never work in this country

The roots of the current system are too strong

Incremental change is the only way forward, Obama was smart enough to see that

 

[Septimus Prime]

Isn't Universal Health Care the same as single-payer?: https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#universal-health

They aren't the same, but they work in tandem. Universal Healthcare is what you posted: every citizen is automatically enrolled and covered, so everyone has it—it's universal.

Single-payer is the practice of having only a single entity (the government) doing the underwriting and coverage. The government would also negotiate drug and care prices with tons of leverage, as the sole provider, and together with universal healthcare, it will be able to drive down healthcare costs by amortizing risk over the entire population.

The public option is basically the government acting as an insurer. So you would have a choice of coverage between current, private providers, plus the option to choose public coverage.

 

[KSweeley]

The bill is being introduced tomorrow

Ready Or Not, Here Comes Bernie Sanders And His Single-Payer Plan
Pay attention to the proposal. Pay more attention to what he says about it.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) plans to unveil a new version of his “Medicare-for-all” proposal on Wednesday. But the actual substance of the plan may matter less than what he says about it ― and the role he envisions that proposal playing in future debates over how to reform the U.S. health care system.

Why ‘Berniecare’ Is Getting Traction After All These Years

Certainly Sanders has earned the right to talk about Medicare-for-all. He’s among a small group of public officials who have been pushing the idea literally for decades, no matter what the political climate. And if he hadn’t made the concept such a prominent part of his 2016 presidential campaign, nobody but a handful of relatively low-profile progressives would be talking about it now.

Instead, Democratic senators are lining up to co-sponsor his bill, including four (Cory Booker of New Jersey, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts) who are potential Democratic presidential candidates for 2020. An even more unexpected endorsement of the concept, if not the Sanders proposal specifically, came last week from Max Baucus, the relatively conservative former Democratic senator from Montana who was a key architect of the Affordable Care Act.

 

[kirblar]

The bill is being introduced tomorrow

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

 

[Fenderputty]

The bill is being introduced tomorrow

The proposed taxes are on the site. The details of how his plan works isn't

 

[massoluk]

That's exactly the issue. The fact that the executive branch can withhold payments that can seriously harm the markets show one of the many faults in the ACA (and of the executive branch too). I would rather see a full effort movement on moving to single payer now instead of 30 years when the Dems aren't afraid of their shadows anymore.

Oh. I think you will get to single-payer, I think pushing it right now with doofus with no concept of political machinations and GOP Congress bending over to cut any tax run into real risk of losing ACA on top of not having single-payer

 

[GillianSeed79]

This Democratic party leaderships' support of big, bold policy ideas like this one shows how much they really care about working people and just goes to show how adept they are about firing up their base and instilling passion
In Democratic party supporters to go out and vote in elections for Democratic candidates.

Real talk though - Everybody knows single payer is never going to pass unless Democrats somehow take back the house, senate and White House, which is not happening any time soon. It just sucks that actually supporting a policy your supporters support is a liability and winning office means means having to whore yourself out to centrists and moderates.

 

[legacyzero]

Except Bernie already said they will look at the amount of tax increase later. Stupid move.

Yiiiikes. That's not a good way to start. The first talking point shouldn't be "who pays for it?!"

Better be good

 

[Fenderputty]

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

I thought he was proposing a mix of payroll, income and estate taxes?

 

[DarkKyo]

How did Bernie propose paying for this?

I think we should tax the rich. They got a lot of our money that they aren't using and don't need it would seem.

 

[kirblar]

This Democratic party leaderships' support of big, bold policy ideas like this one shows how much they really care about working people and just goes to show how adept they are about firing up their base and instilling passion
In Democratic party supporters to go out and vote in elections for Democratic candidates.

Real talk though - Everybody knows single payer is never going to pass unless Democrats somehow take back the house, senate and White House, which is not happening any time soon. It just sucks that actually supporting a policy your supporters support is a liability and winning office means means having to whore yourself out to centrists and moderates.

You're almost there but not quite. If Dems take the House, Senate and White House, Single Payer will still not pass because it does not have near-unanimous support across the party.

(The public option, assuming the fillibuster's killed, WOULD pass in a landslide.)

 

[Barajas_201]

The Democratic party is a joke. I hope Bernie dumps this jokers and forms a legitimate progressive party.

 

[Fenderputty]

This Democratic party leaderships' support of big, bold policy ideas like this one shows how much they really care about working people and just goes to show how adept they are about firing up their base and instilling passion
In Democratic party supporters to go out and vote in elections for Democratic candidates.

Real talk though - Everybody knows single payer is never going to pass unless Democrats somehow take back the house, senate and White House, which is not happening any time soon. It just sucks that actually supporting a policy your supporters support is a liability and winning office means means having to whore yourself out to centrists and moderates.

Centrists and moderates are the party. You're just upset they make up enough of a number that the Dems don't whore to you. Boo fucking hoo

 

[Burt]

He's said outright that he knows the bill has literally zero chance of passing and he's only putting it forth to start a discussion. I don't think that having a foolproof budget-feasible proposal is something that's relevant to his aims.

 

[Mortemis]

You're almost there but not quite. If Dems take the House, Senate and White House, Single Payer will still not pass because it does not have near-unanimous support across the party.

(The public option, assuming the fillibuster's killed, WOULD pass in a landslide.)

Why would you assume that?

 

[Beartruck]

When will democrats learn: we don't want fucking incremental change!

Trump was elected because republicans didn't want incremental change, they wanted big sweeping gestures.

Look how well that's working out...

 

[legacyzero]

The proposed taxes are on the site. The details of how his plan works isn't

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

Ugggh 🤦🤦🤦

 

[DraconisNav]

The AMA is imploding.

The American Medical Association is doing just fine, thank you.

The ACA is struggling due to critical under-funding in key areas and lack of competitive enforcement in others. Both could be fixed by adults in the executive and legislative branch.

Unfortunately they're in short supply.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Isn't Universal Health Care the same as single-payer?: https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#universal-health

Late, but dammit I went through the trouble of finding this.

No. Universal coverage refers to a system where all residents have health coverage. Setting up a single-payer plan, where the federal government pays for all residents' health care, is one path to get to universal coverage — but not the only one.

Some universal-coverage countries have lots of different payers. Japan and Germany, for example, require citizens to enroll in one of dozens of competing health insurance plans (Japan has 3,500 insurance plans; Germany has a more modest 300). These are typically called "multi-payer" health care systems.

There are lots of similarities between single-payer and multi-payer countries like Germany and Japan. All of them, for example, have the government set medical prices at a standard rate. But they're still different paths to getting a country's population insured.

 

[Fenderputty]

The Democratic party is a joke. I hope Bernie dumps this jokers and forms a legitimate progressive party.

I agree. the quicker he does this the quicker he and his followers become irrelevant

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The Democratic party is a joke. I hope Bernie dumps this jokers and forms a legitimate progressive party.

With blackjack and hookers.

 

[Makonero]

Trump was elected because republicans didn't want incremental change, they wanted big sweeping gestures.

Look how well that's working out...

They have every branch of government and all the control they want?

Just because they can't agree on anything now that they have power doesn't mean they don't have all the power.

 

[kirblar]

Sanders will introduce universal health care, backed by 15 Democrats (WAPO)

As he described his legislation, Sanders focused on its simplicity, suggesting that Americans would be happy to pay higher taxes if it meant the end of wrangling with health-care companies. The size of the tax increase, he said, would be determined in a separate bill.

As of Tuesday night, just one senator from a swing state had done so. Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), who as a member of the House had backed Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.)'s Medicare for All bill, wrote a Tuesday op-ed for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel to confirm that she was on board. The Republican Party of Wisconsin, which has struggled to find a first-tier challenger for Baldwin next year, was quick with a statement: ”Senator Tammy Baldwin Embraces Radical $32 Trillion Health Care Takeover."

The $32 trillion figure was based on the Urban Institute's analysis of Sander's 2016 campaign plan. The new bill was different — and so was the confidence Democrats had as they embraced it.

Why would you assume that?

Because it's all but killed right now and Obama/Reid not nuking it in '09 turned out to be a massive error.

 

[Slayven]

He's said outright that he knows the bill has literally zero chance of passing and he's only putting it forth to start a discussion. I don't think that having a foolproof budget-feasible proposal is something that's relevant to his aims.

First question is always going to be "Who pays what"

 

[Mortemis]

Because it's all but killed right now and Obama/Reid not nuking it in '09 turned out to be a massive error.

I haven't heard anything about this, last time I checked Trump was the one crying about nuking it and republicans were against the idea.

I guess I haven't been paying too much attention to the tax reform drama, if they're nuking it then they must be desperate to get that through.

 

[Kusagari]

If the Dems don't nuke the filibuster the second they get power they're morons.

 

[KSweeley]

Where Dems stand on Sanders's single-payer bill

Supports Bernie's Bill:

Tammy Baldwin (Wis.)
Richard Blumenthal (Conn.)
Cory Booker (N.J.)
Al Franken (Minn.)
Kirsten Gillibrand (N.Y.)
Kamala Harris (Calif)
Mazie Hirono (Hawaii)
Jeff Merkley (Ore.)
Tom Udall (N.M.)
Elizabeth Warren (Mass.)

Undecided:

Tom Carper (Del.)
Bob Casey Jr. (Pa.)
Joe Manchin (W.Va.)
Charles Schumer (N.Y.)
Chris Van Hollen (Md.)

Not Endorsing:

Tim Kaine (Va.)
Claire McCaskill (Mo.)
Debbie Stabenow (Mich.)
Jon Tester (Mont.)

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If the Dems don't nuke the filibuster the second they get power they're morons.

Yeah, because killing the filibuster for Cabinet appointments sure worked out so great for them

 

[BackLogJoe]

By what measures? The recent CBO scores of the various Republican healthcare proposals stated that the ACA markets are stable.

The biggest threat atm is from the current administration's shenanigans.

Are you serious? There are states with no options.

 

[legacyzero]

Sanders will introduce universal health care, backed by 15 Democrats (WAPO)




Because it's all but killed right now and Obama/Reid not nuking it in '09 turned out to be a massive error.

Ugh this kind of shit is what got the California bill shelved

 

[royalan]

Good for her. Don't underestimate her--she's brilliant.

Single-payer is a huge payroll tax increase that looks awful to most citizens. Start small: fix the ACA, bring in public option, then years down the road move to single-payer.

Jumping instantly to single-payer is a horrible idea and I'm not surprised Bernie is doing it. It could potentially destroy any positive movement in this area.

I also don't expect it to be a very comprehensive bill in the text. But hey, we'll see tomorrow.

 

[KHarvey16]

I can see this making a lot of sense in a world where the president is hungry for deals with the opposition that bring him praise. Killing single payer now, which was never feasible in the near term, to help secure a public option deal would be excellent.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

This is not good, we need a unified democratic party or else the country is fucked next year.

Bernie divided us in first place.

 

[Kusagari]

Yeah, because killing the filibuster for Cabinet appointments sure worked out so great for them

And what was the other option? To leave positions vacant? The GOP will not govern properly. It's worthless to negotiate with them.

 

[luckygodzilla]

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

Because of course he did.

With all three branches of the federal government being firmly red, it's hard not to see why Pelosi is more pre-occupied with protecting what we have rather than introducing new pie in the sky legislation.

 

[kirblar]

Ugh this kind of shit is what got the California bill shelved

Actually doing the math got the Vermont bill shelved!

(California also may not legally be able to raise the funds because of the way the proposition system has shackled their ability to properly fund the government.)

Are you serious? There are states with no options.

Not true, they found replacement vendors in the counties w/ pullouts. All are covered in 2018.

This, of course, would not be a problem w/ a public option.

 

[BoboBrazil]

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

Just tell people Mexico's gonna pay for it. I've heard it works.

 

[TheSchwab_7]

Defend ACA until 2020. Then run a candidate on the issue of single payer.

 

[KHarvey16]

Are you serious? There are states with no options.

I don't believe that's correct. In fact I don't think there are even individual counties with no options currently.

 

[DarkKyo]

Where Dems stand on Sanders's single-payer bill

Oh so that's who's on the right side of history. Hopefully more join them in time.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

WaPo has an article up tonight w/ knowledge of what's in it. He punted on the "how do we pay for it" part. Again.

sounds familiar

 

[Burt]

First question is always going to be "Who pays what"

Which I'm assuming will be a large portion of the discussion, now that there's a bill to prompt it.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah, because killing the filibuster for Cabinet appointments sure worked out so great for them

There's numerous articles and studies that have Been done about this. The legislative filibuster has benefitted the GOP more than Dems.

I haven't heard anything about this, last time I checked Trump was the one crying about nuking it and republicans were against the idea.

I guess I haven't been paying too much attention to the tax reform drama, if they're nuking it then they must be desperate to get that through.

I'm assuming he meant they fucked with reconciliation enough that it was almost a like for like filibuster blow up.

 

[Effect]

Except Bernie already said they will look at the amount of tax increase later. Stupid move.

This is the problem with Sanders as well. He never wants to look at the details of how things are going to work. He always does this! This is the bs he was pulling in the primary. This bill is grandstanding and a stupid attempt at a purity test. Its going to fail. It was always going to fail and why draw attention away from whatever the republicans are still trying to do with the ACA? They have not stopped trying to repeal it. There is suppose to be another attempt this week and even though Hatch says there isn't support for it moves are still being made. This stunt by Sanders makes no damn sense here. It accomplishes nothing positive here. It gives possible media cover to that other repeal attempt!

He should be using his position for calling about what trumps cabinet is doing. Bring attention to trump's people undermining the ACA by not advertising the sign up period for it, using the budget for that to run ads against the damn program and law itself. Where is Bernie on this? What about what trump is doing with national lands? etc? Where is Sanders on a lot of the shit that is in danger and could use a spotlight? No he wants to use his spotlight on a fucking stunt.

 

[BackLogJoe]

I don't believe that's correct. In fact I don't think there are even individual counties with no options currently.

I meant no options as in plural.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Why not attach her name to it to at least to further the discussion or at the very least come out and say she is in support of single payer but as of now she is focused on something else ?