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[kirblar]

This is the problem with Sanders as well. He never wants to look at the details of how things are going to work. This bill is grandstanding and a stupid attempt at a purity test. Its going to fail. It was always going to fail and why draw attention away from whatever the republicans are still trying to do with the ACA? They have not stopped trying to repeal it. There is suppose to be another attempt this week and even though Hatch says there isn't support for it moves are still being made. This stunt by Sanders makes no damn sense here. It accomplishes nothing positive here.

He should be using his position for calling about what trumps cabinet is doing. Bring attention to trump's people undermining the ACA by not advertising the sign up period for it, using the budget for that to run ads against the damn program and law itself. Where is Bernie on this? What about what trump is doing with national lands? etc? Where is Sanders on a lot of the shit that is in danger and could use a spotlight? No he wants to use his spotlight on a fucking stunt.

There's no support for the GOP bill. They've punted twice on announcing it the past two days, and McConnell apparently told them to build a coalition themselves (and the Dems have 0 interest in playing ball.)

 

[jimmypython]

Where Dems stand on Sanders's single-payer bill

better than i expected tbh.

 

[Byakuya769]

Not going to get mad at her for not endorsing a bill I don't know the contents of.

 

[kirblar]

Why not attach her name to it to at least to further the discussion or at the very least come out and say she is in support of single payer but as of now she is focused on something else ?

She's stated that she supports Single Payer personally but does not believe there's enough support in the caucus to have leadership throw their weight behind it.

 

[Effect]

There's no support for the GOP bill. They've punted twice on announcing it the past two days, and McConnell apparently told them to build a coalition themselves (and the Dems have 0 interest in playing ball.)

I don't think anyone should relax as long as it's a possibility.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Single-payer didn't pass when we had a Dem-controlled congress because a significant portion of the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, fundamentally do not want single-payer.

Pelosi was the reason the Public Option made it out of the House.

Senate killed it.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Pelosi was the reason the Public Option made it out of the House.

Senate killed it.

that bitch

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And what was the other option? To leave positions vacant? The GOP will not govern properly. It's worthless to negotiate with them.

Leave them vacant then. No one is forcing the President to fill out the Cabinet. The Cabinet isn't even mentioned in the Constitution. It's always been an ad-hoc advisory council for the President since the country's founding. Who even gives a shit, the President could have formed his own Special Advisory Council and populated it with anyone he wanted. The other option was opening yourself up for a Cabinet populated with the likes of Betsy DeVos. What a great option.

 

[Koomaster]

Surprise, Bernie dividing the party again with his antics. Fall in line behind Bernie or you're a villain.

 

[kirblar]

Pelosi was the reason the Public Option made it out of the House.

Senate killed it.

*Senate killed it because Obama/Reid didn't kill the filibuster and let Lieberman/Baucus be the marginal votes

 

[Guevara]

A massive tax on working families, going into the 2018 cycle.

 

[Rayis]

I think us progressive Democrats need to come to terms with the fact we have hardly any leverage at a federal level and incremental change is not so bad when at the end of the day it gets us what we want. We can't be assholes like the Republicans are and expect to get away with it.

We don't have the benefit of having a significant portion of the country voting for Dems just because they have a D next to their name.

 

[royalan]

This is the problem with Sanders as well. He never wants to look at the details of how things are going to work. He always does this! This is the bs he was pulling in the primary. This bill is grandstanding and a stupid attempt at a purity test. Its going to fail. It was always going to fail and why draw attention away from whatever the republicans are still trying to do with the ACA? They have not stopped trying to repeal it. There is suppose to be another attempt this week and even though Hatch says there isn't support for it moves are still being made. This stunt by Sanders makes no damn sense here. It accomplishes nothing positive here. It gives possible media cover to that other repeal attempt!

He should be using his position for calling about what trumps cabinet is doing. Bring attention to trump's people undermining the ACA by not advertising the sign up period for it, using the budget for that to run ads against the damn program and law itself. Where is Bernie on this? What about what trump is doing with national lands? etc? Where is Sanders on a lot of the shit that is in danger and could use a spotlight? No he wants to use his spotlight on a fucking stunt.

Amen

 

[Vixdean]

Of course not, she's not running for President or trying to shore up her progressive credentials like the other lemmings. She's actually a serious legislator trying to do the real business of government.

 

[Flo_Evans]

How do we pay for it is a silly question. How do we pay for anything? The government runs a deficit. It's prints money.

How do we pay for our current most expensive system in the world? We spend double what some countries with single payer do per capita... yet we can't afford it. Right.

 

[Tall4Life]

Surprise, Bernie dividing the party again with his antics. Fall in line behind Bernie or you're a villain.

What should they be proposing then? You'd be hard pressed to find a bill that not even one Democrat disagrees on. This is a weird reverse purity test

 

[Fenderputty]

I don't think anyone should relax as long as it's a possibility.

It's not a possibility ... feel better?

Single-payer didn't pass when we had a Dem-controlled congress because a significant portion of the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, fundamentally do not want single-payer.

This is such a shitty revisionist post omg

Pelosi got careers killed for the passage of the ACA.

 

[kirblar]

I think us progressive Democrats need to come to terms with the fact we have hardly any leverage at a federal level and incremental change is not so bad when at the end of the day it gets us what we want. We can't be assholes like the Republicans are and expect to get away with it.

We don't have the benefit of having a significant portion of the country voting for Dems just because they have a D next to their name.

I mean, they didn't get away with it. They ran on "REPEAL OBAMACARE" and it failed. They went for the crazy nuclear option and it didn't work.

Expect the mirror image nuclear approach to work is foolish.

 

[Deuce Deuce]

Are you serious? There are states with no options.

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...unty-in-us-to-have-obamacare-coverage-in-2018

All counties are expected to have at least one exchange insurer.

 

[Aaronrules380]

What should they be proposing then? You'd be hard pressed to find a bill that not even one Democrat disagrees on. This is a weird reverse purity test

Honestly, Democrats are better off trying to work on stuff that has at least some bipartisan support and try to negotiate more liberal outcomes on those in the current climate rather than proposing bills that have a zero percent chance of passing

 

[-COOLIO-]

How did Bernie propose paying for this?

i imagine the same way most first world countries manage to. higher taxes on the most wealthy.

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean, I wouldn't endorse something I haven't seen the details of either. We'll see the unveiling tomorrow, right? To be honest I wasn't a fan of how many other politicians jumped on board so quickly that much

 

[WedgeX]

How do we pay for it is a silly question. How do we pay for anything? The government runs a deficit. It's prints money.

How do we pay for our current most expensive system in the world? We spend double what some countries with single payer do per capita... yet we can't afford it. Right.

Ironically I was just reading a piece for class, from the early 1980s, saying the exact same thing but in relation to universal healthcares demise in the wake of increases after the initial introduction of Medicare and again in the late 1970s. Same problems, same complaints, different decades. Except now our health outcomes are lagging behind countries that bit the bullet and adopted expanded health coverage.

 

[Limit]

At this point we need a good salesperson to sell Universal healthcare. Extend the active duty healthcare plan to veterans with the pitch "they took care of this country now it's the country's turn to take care of them". Next step is including their families. And finally push to include every citizen. Active duty military healthcare is the bomb btw.

 

[cbrun44]

We need to win to be able to do anything.

It's almost like Bernie doesn't want to win. Fuck Bernie. It's all or nothing for the guy. Straight up reason #1 Trump is President. Sick and tired of his shit. Retire.

 

[Zoe]

This is the problem with Sanders as well. He never wants to look at the details of how things are going to work. He always does this! This is the bs he was pulling in the primary. This bill is grandstanding and a stupid attempt at a purity test. Its going to fail. It was always going to fail and why draw attention away from whatever the republicans are still trying to do with the ACA? They have not stopped trying to repeal it. There is suppose to be another attempt this week and even though Hatch says there isn't support for it moves are still being made. This stunt by Sanders makes no damn sense here. It accomplishes nothing positive here. It gives possible media cover to that other repeal attempt!

He should be using his position for calling about what trumps cabinet is doing. Bring attention to trump's people undermining the ACA by not advertising the sign up period for it, using the budget for that to run ads against the damn program and law itself. Where is Bernie on this? What about what trump is doing with national lands? etc? Where is Sanders on a lot of the shit that is in danger and could use a spotlight? No he wants to use his spotlight on a fucking stunt.

There was a plan during his campaign. People didn't like it. Now there can be more input.

And Sanders is putting other stuff in the spotlight all the damn time. You'd have to be willfully ignoring him to think this is the only thing he's done.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Surprise, Bernie dividing the party again with his antics. Fall in line behind Bernie or you're a villain.

Harris, Warren, Franken and others are all cosponsoring the bill but yeah sure.

 

[Armaros]

Single-payer didn't pass when we had a Dem-controlled congress because a significant portion of the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, fundamentally do not want single-payer.

Pelosi passed the public option under her tenure as speaker and she lost her majority in the next midterm after....

 

[ultratruman]

And people go off on me for saying Pelosi shouldn't be minority leader. Progressives, even.

Pelosi's been in her position since 2007 and has overseen the destruction of the Democratic Party from elected offices at the state and federal level.

I'm not saying Tim Ryan was the answer, but more Pelosi definitely isn't. She boasts about how much of a liability she is, it's so annoying that no Democratic took a serious stand against her.

 

[RustyNails]

How do we pay for it is a silly question. How do we pay for anything? The government runs a deficit. It's prints money.

How do we pay for our current most expensive system in the world? We spend double what some countries with single payer do per capita... yet we can't afford it. Right.

Well no shit. Try selling that to an average american. All he's gonna hear is "democrats raising taxes again!"

GOP probably has the most well oiled propaganda machine since WW2 Germany.

 

[BackLogJoe]

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...unty-in-us-to-have-obamacare-coverage-in-2018

All counties are expected to have at least one exchange insurer.

One means no options. You take what you're offered or fuck off.

 

[The Technomancer]

Uhhhh I hope we are not counting on a tax increase having popular support. If we go in on this, we're going to get creamed for it. That's not an argument against doing it but boy oh boy "popular momentum" should not be part of the plan

 

[JABEE]

When will these berniecrats learn. The legislative process don't give a fuck



This. Go for the public option

When will Democrats learn there is a sense of urgency for a lot of people’s lives that have not recovered since the Great Recession? Even when Democrats have control they whiff on actually reforming inequality. They pat their cronies and university chums on the back and let them keep their unregulated systems in place.

Healthcare is not an issue to push off. People are dying right now who are afraid to put their families into debt. Guys who would rather die in pain than take the risk of dying or being incapacited in surgery and burdening their loved ones. They push off care until the last moment because of the confusion over whether Americans can be secure in knowing their surgery or treatment is covered.

Protect the right of Healthcare for all Americans, not just ACA.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Honestly, I think stuff like this is a waste of time when there are far more urgent issues that need to be addressed by congress that actually have a chance of being resolved like passing a law that allows the Dreamers to remain in this country (which will be hard, but not impossible to get some bipartisan support on)

 

[Fenderputty]

And people go off on me for saying Pelosi shouldn't be minority leader. Progressives, even.

Pelosi's been in her position since 2007 and has overseen the destruction of the Democratic Party from elected offices at the state and federal level.

I'm not saying Tim Ryan was the answer, but more Pelosi definitely isn't. She boasts about how much of a liability she is, it's so annoying that no Democratic took a serious stand against her.

People go off on you because Pelosi is a bad ass legislator and your opinion is baseless tripe

 

[kirblar]

And people go off on me for saying Pelosi shouldn't be minority leader. Progressives, even.

Pelosi's been in her position since 2007 and has overseen the destruction of the Democratic Party from elected offices at the state and federal level.

I'm not saying Tim Ryan was the answer, but more Pelosi definitely isn't. She boasts about how much of a liability she is, it's so annoying that no Democratic took a serious stand against her.

Why would Pelosi support something that doesn't have majority support within her caucus?

 

[The Technomancer]

Honestly, I think stuff like this is a waste of time when there are far more urgent issues that need to be addressed by congress that actually have a chance of being resolved like passing a law that allows the Dreamers to remain in this country (which will be hard, but not impossible to get some bipartisan support on)

One way or another healthcare is going to be the issue of 2018 and 2020, although yes I wouldn't mind seeing some DREAM stuff laid out now also

 

[NeoXChaos]

People go off on you because Pelosi is a bad ass legislator and your opinion is baseless tripe

Well no shit. Try selling that to an average american. All he's gonna hear is "democrats raising taxes again!"

GOP probably has the most well oiled propaganda machine since WW2 Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgbZ2m25F_4

This is from last year but the ads write themselves. All someone is going to hear is "raise taxes" and shut the rest of the explanation down.

 

[Aaronrules380]

When will Democrats learn there is a sense of urgency for a lot of people’s lives that have not recovered since the Great Recession? Even when Democrats have control they whiff on actually reforming inequality. They pat their cronies and university chums on the back and let them keep their unregulated systems in place.

Healthcare is not an issue to push off. People are dying right now who are afraid to put their families into debt. Guys who would rather die in pain than take the risk of dying or being incapacited in surgery and burdening their loved ones. They push off care until the last moment because of the confusion over whether Americans can be secure in knowing their surgery or treatment is covered.

Protect the right of Healthcare for all Americans, not just ACA.

This is true to an extent, but any single payer bill introduced with a republican majority has an exactly zero percent chance of passing. Even improving the ACA will be an incredibly difficult feat with the current congress. Whether you like it or not this bill is an exercise in futility that exists more for political pageantry than to actually try to achieve change

 

[The Technomancer]

Like, I think we can pass a tax increase. I do not think we should expect any popularity behind it

 

[Grug]

It's pretty clear now that a Sanders presidency would have rivalled Trump's for congressional gridlock.

Weber said politics is "a strong, slow drilling through hard boards with both passion and judgment" and Bismark said "politics is the art of the possible".

Sanders has plenty of passion, not so good with the judgement and the understanding of what is possible in the short term. In parliamentary systems of lawmaking, the policy process is incremental.

 

[massoluk]

And people go off on me for saying Pelosi shouldn't be minority leader. Progressives, even.

Pelosi's been in her position since 2007 and has overseen the destruction of the Democratic Party from elected offices at the state and federal level.

I'm not saying Tim Ryan was the answer, but more Pelosi definitely isn't. She up boasts about how much of a liability she is, it's so annoying that no Democratic took a serious stand against her.

Reality-Nancy Pelosi managed to quietly accomplish numerous legislative feat despite her decreasing leverage in Congress, while you probably can't name one law passed by Bernie.
Her critics-Fucking Pelosi is a liability

 

[SolarPowered]

No one should expect Chuck and Nancy to be on board yet for better or worse. They're the old of the old guard and they keep their cards glued to their chests.

 

[Fenderputty]

When will Democrats learn there is a sense of urgency for a lot of people’s lives that have not recovered since the Great Recession? Even when Democrats have control they whiff on actually reforming inequality. They pat their cronies and university chums on the back and let them keep their unregulated systems in place.

Healthcare is not an issue to push off. People are dying right now who are afraid to put their families into debt. Guys who would rather die in pain than take the risk of dying or being incapacited in surgery and burdening their loved ones. They push off care until the last moment because of the confusion over whether Americans can be secure in knowing their surgery or treatment is covered.

Protect the right of Healthcare for all Americans, not just ACA.

I'm sure you had a point to this post, I'm just not getting it. When did they "whif"

Who's pushing off healthcare? Pelosi suggesting a public option is the better and more prudent route sure isn't pushing anything off.

Are you under the assumption that single payer is the only way to UHC?

 

[kitsunelaine]

When will democrats learn: we don't want fucking incremental change!

Sorry you have to deal with the reality of your political system. It's not the Democrat's fault. They're doing what they can with what they've got. Blaming the Dems for this is fucking ridiculous.

Anyway, Bernie won't get his pony and everyone knows it.

 

[Officerrob]

Oh so that's who's on the right side of history. Hopefully more join them in time.

If by "the right side of history" you mean running for president and don't want this litmus test thrown in their face, sure. Look at those names that are supporting this very closely, a lot of politics being played here. This isn't going anywhere, so this is just one big political show right now

 

[JABEE]

I can see this making a lot of sense in a world where the president is hungry for deals with the opposition that bring him praise. Killing single payer now, which was never feasible in the near term, to help secure a public option deal would be excellent.

If they can actually get this deal it would be real progress. Bernie’s bill shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Aaronrules380]

One way or another healthcare is going to be the issue of 2018 and 2020, although yes I wouldn't mind seeing some DREAM stuff laid out now also

sure, but we have 6 months for the DREAM stuff, a period of time in which any changes to the current ACA will be monumentally difficult and any single payer bill passing is literally impossible. I'd much rather Democrats in congress spends time working towards goals that could actually be achievable rather than wasting time on a bill everybody knows will fail

 

[Elandyll]

I hope some of you can understand that pushing single payer -right now-, when the Dems are trying to convince moderate Republicans to sign off on repairing the ACA is downright retarded, because not only does it have 0 chance to pass and is just a purity test from Sanders, it also will be ammunition for the hardcore Republicans to tell their moderate colleagues 'See! First the ACA, then it's single payer, next it's full on socialism!'. And their base will push back as well, we all know it, whereas the Trump stint has softened opposition to the ACA in the public.

There will be a time for single payer and free community college. When and IF we can retake the House and the Senate, as well as the White House.

Now is not that time.
Not even close.

 

[JABEE]

Defend ACA until 2020. Then run a candidate on the issue of single payer.

My fear is they’re going to run another “America is already great” candidate. The status quo isn’t working.

Bernie should say if he needs wealth redistribution to get this bill passed. Funding should be part of the whole thing.