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[whytemyke]

Does anyone really give a crap about vacated wins?

Paterno still has the record as far as anyone should be concerned.

Paterno doesn't have the record. Bobby Bowden does. And even if I know he had it at one point, I also know that when my kids start playing football and looking at the records, they will have never even heard of Joe Paterno.

That, in itself, justifies the vacated wins to me. That the next generation will not even know who he was. The NCAA just burned the libraries of Alexandria by vacating those wins. So yeah, not a big deal in the present, I suppose, but 20-30 years from now? Huge deal.

 

[mre]

I'd gladly take up this argument if it were about USC's vacated wins, or the vacated wins of any other team, but arguing for Paterno is definitely not worth it.

All hail Bobby Bowden.

But USC didn't win their games or their MNC either.

 

[Yaboosh]

God,I hope that Bobby doesn't do anything stupid like come out in support of Paterno.

As an FSU alum, the new found record for Bobby still feels hollow even though I am glad Paterno doesn't have it anymore.

 

[BolognaSoup]

Some of these comments .... dear me.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/ncaa_decision_on_penn_state.html#comments

This one might be about the dumbest thing I've ever read and actually, quite fitting the new legacy of the program:

adam_leavelle
Screw you Penn State haters, including the NCAA, Mark May, and countless other spineless sports media people. HOW does any of this affect Sandusky? Joe? Curley? Shultz? Spanier? How does it help the victims of Sandusky? All this does is punish current players, student athletes across the board (who reap the benefits of PSU bowl appearances), it hurts State College and the surrounding area as well and possibly the Pennsylvania economy as whole! It's INSANE and it was done 100% out of envy, jealousy, and spite, of an institution that for YEARS rose above the rest. This wasn't punishment for a monster creeping inside Penn State, this was knocking a school off the top of the ladder because people were sick of them being there.

Penn State WILL rise again, it may take some time, but they will do it. When they do, I hope their perch at the top makes you even angrier. I hope their graduation rates makes you so sick you want to jump off a cliff somewhere. I hope their academic success makes your school look like a community college. I hope everything you ever hated about Penn State is TEN FOLD when they climb back out of these ashes. I hope Penn State fans buckle down and become even MORE brazen in their support of our school. I hope it annoys you so badly that you want to leave the country every time you see a Penn State graphic, or hear the words "WE ARE."

This "punishment" was an arrogant, over reaching, stab in the gut that is trying to destroy a school that has been the academic leader of all schools for decades. This "punishment" is meant to get the humble team with no fancy logos, or names on their jersey's out of the discussion of sporting power houses. This "punishment" shows the heart of those who love to tear down any and everyone who works hard to succeed. This "punishment" doesn't "punish" Sandusky, or ANYONE that was actually involved int he crimes! It punishes innocent by standers who didn't even KNOW about it! No one can justify this "punishment" unless they fall into the spineless, cowardly, envious, haters I've described above.

Penn State will be back. The Nittany Lions will perch on top again looking down at those who rose above them for a short while only because they were caged by cowards that were afraid of them and took the one shot they had to place them into captivity. When that happens there will be more of a "swagger" at Penn State because we've now seen what the truth is. We've now seen how some of you really are. I know that when we're back on top I won't be humble about it. I'll rub it in every Penn State haters face, every chance I get. People delete and block me on here for my conservative and Christian views, well, in a few years they'll be doing it because of me rubbing Penn State's success in their face every chance I get!

WE ARE, AND ALWAYS WILL BE

Better than you!

 

[mre]

God,I hope that Bobby doesn't do anything stupid like come out in support of Paterno.

As an FSU alum, the new found record for Bobby still feels hollow even though I am glad Paterno doesn't have it anymore.

An an Alabama alum, I'm hoping evidence comes out in the next year or two implicating Bobby Bowden in the running of a cocaine smuggling ring during the 1990s and 2000s.

 

[Talon]

It's like these people are living in an alternate universe.

An alternate universe where Penn State was still a powerhouse.

God,I hope that Bobby doesn't do anything stupid like come out in support of Paterno.

As an FSU alum, the new found record for Bobby still feels hollow even though I am glad Paterno doesn't have it anymore.

Bobby's been pretty harsh about this. He called for the statue to come down last week in a random radio interview.

 

[Cyan]

This one might be about the dumbest thing I've ever read and actually, quite fitting the new legacy of the program:

That's like a bulletpoint list of every argument we've seen in the thread.

Just missing due process.

 

[3rdman]

Does anyone really give a crap about vacated wins?

Paterno still has the record as far as anyone should be concerned.

What are you talking about? Penn State hasn't won a game in 13 years!

 

[Mort]

I love how defenders of PSU and the football program all start their defenses with a throwaway sentence saying "Child rape is bad" to try and give the illusion of caring about the victims before going into a thousand word essay saying "ZOMG Joe's Legacy! Penn State! FOOOTBAAALL"

 

[Forever]

Paterno's family response:

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/23/paterno-family-releases-statement-on-ncaa/

God I hate these people.

 

[vas_a_morir]

On behalf of the esteemed Alumni of Marshall University, I'd like to go on the record to say that the"We are..." chant now officially belongs to us.

(lol)

 

[Daydream Sequence]

Paterno doesn't have the record. Bobby Bowden does. And even if I know he had it at one point, I also know that when my kids start playing football and looking at the records, they will have never even heard of Joe Paterno.

That, in itself, justifies the vacated wins to me. That the next generation will not even know who he was. The NCAA just burned the libraries of Alexandria by vacating those wins. So yeah, not a big deal in the present, I suppose, but 20-30 years from now? Huge deal.

Exactly. His legacy (the coaching one) is dead. As it should be. His legacy of protecting a child rapist will live on hopefully forever.

 

[BertramCooper]

The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.

Jesus Christ.

Why the fuck should anyone need your input, Paternos?

 

[lazybones18]

http://espn.go.com/college-football...aight-penn-state-nittany-lions-board-trustees

Would love to hear what Spanier has to say

 

[Knux-Future]

An an Alabama alum, I'm hoping evidence comes out in the next year or two implicating Bobby Bowden in the running of a cocaine smuggling ring during the 1990s and 2000s.

But it's Florida....

They'd understand. No punishment for him

 

[SouthernDragon]

They are used to power, of course they demand input and deem anything that is without their approval as "not correct".

Which is why the removal of the wins is so potent.

 

[rjc571]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen? I agree with the rest of the punishment, though.

 

[MThanded]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen? I agree with the rest of the punishment, though.

Terrible equivalency.

 

[Zizbuka]

What difference could it possibly make one way or the other?

Joe Paterno is no longer the winningest coach in college football history. The worst part is he's not here to suffer through this embarrassment.

 

[Cyan]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen?

This post doesn't actually make any sense.

 

[LyleLanley]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen? I agree with the rest of the punishment, though.

One of these things is child rape the other is football...

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen? I agree with the rest of the punishment, though.

I'm not sure you thought this through before posting.

 

[Neuromancer]

rjc571, it's time to stop posting for a little while.

 

[blame space]

we need to shut down college football

 

[MIMIC]

I was gonna say that hitting the football program seems like a trivial way to punish the school because of the child rape conspiracy, but when I realized hitting the FB program pretty much IS punishing the school....which is actually the perfect punishment.

 

[rjc571]

Terrible equivalency.

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more suitable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

 

[Forever]

How so?

You cannot be serious.

They're basically doing the same thing as the public schools in Texas that removed all references to slavery from their history books did.

Holy. Shit.

 

[gutter_trash]

Paterno is dead, he can't be sent to jail, so IMO the decision to punish his record is the only way to actually punish him beyond the grave

dying is not a get out of jail card for the crimes he committed

 

[Dude Abides]

I wonder what would have happened if Paterno or someone else had done the right thing in 2001. Would Paterno have gotten canned with this scandal coming off a bad couple of seasons? Also going back to 1998 seems a little excessive. The 1998 incident was reported to the police and investigated. I don't think Paterno can be blamed for Sandusky getting away with that one.

 

[Lucid Faia]

.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

How so? They're basically doing the same thing as the public schools in Texas that removed all references to slavery from their history books did.

Sweetie, no.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more favorable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

Put the keyboard down.

 

[tycoonheart]

Paterno is dead, he can't be sent to jail, so IMO the decision to punish his record is the only way to actually punish him beyond the grave

Yeah, but you're also punishing all the players who busted their asses for those wins. I'm not sure how I feel about that decision. On one hand I'm glad Paterno doesn't get the wins, on the other hand the players who played during those years had nothing to do with the scandal and they get affected by the decision as well.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more favorable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the public schools in Texas that removed all references to slavery from their history books did.

Its been explained a couple of times, but here goes: Paterno gained an unfair competitive edge by covering up the scandal, so games won beyond that point were won unfairly, hence not true wins. Wins vacated.

 

[BertramCooper]

Yeah, but you're also punishing all the players who busted their asses for those wins. I'm not sure how I feel about that decision. On one hand I'm glad Paterno doesn't get the wins, on the other hand the players who played during those years had nothing to do with the scandal and they get affected by the decision as well.

When you're going after deep institutional corruption, there's going to be some collateral damage.

 

[bishoptl]

Vacating Paterno's wins seems pretty hypocritical to me, not to mention childish. On the one hand, they're punishing Paterno for turning his back and pretending something didn't happen, but on the other hand, they're turning their backs and pretending something didn't happen? I agree with the rest of the punishment, though.

Holy shit this post is hilarious.

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more suitable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

...what are you doing

 

[Pollux]

On behalf of the esteemed Alumni of Marshall University, I'd like to go on the record to say that the"We are..." chant now officially belongs to us.

(lol)

Tag quote

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

You can't honestly believe it's even close to the same thing.

 

[whytemyke]

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more suitable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

Just stop. Go lay down for a minute.

 

[SouthernDragon]

rjc, two things.

1) Your comparisons are way out of whack. You are comparing slavery and child rape to FOOTBALL.

2) You seem to be missing the point of the vacation. It's not about pretending they never happened. Everyone knows they happened. It's about a blow to PSU's pride, to the Paterno legacy, to ensure that students years from now will have never understood the power the Paterno name once held.

Edit:

The players in those vacated games... they aren't hurt. It's their college record, and they are out of college, who the fuck cares about their college record? If they went pro, their pro record counts for more. If they didn't, then they should be preoccupied with their JOBS.

Seriously, this damages the Paterno legacy and the culture at PennState, which is the point of the entire thing.

 

[Pollux]

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more suitable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

Sweet mother for god? Wtf is going on with this batch of juniors?

 

[reKon]

ouch

 

[Rockandrollclown]

A bit off topic, but has the Paterno statue been torn down yet? If not are there still people guarding it to try and keep it from being torn down?

 

[David H Wong]

How so? Even though they're not covering up a crime, they're still sending the message that it's OK to cover up events that you know took place in favor of presenting a more suitable version of reality. They're basically doing the same thing as the Texas board of education did when they removed all references to slavery from their history books.

OK I do think it's probably time to go ahead and call it a civilization. I think we had a good run, let's just turn off the lights and see if some other species can do better. It's been fun, everybody.

 

[SouthernDragon]

A bit off topic, but has the Paterno statue been torn down yet? If not are there still people guarding it to try and keep it from being torn down?

It has.

 

[rjc571]

Its been explained a couple of times, but here goes: Paterno gained an unfair competitive edge by covering up the scandal, so games won beyond that point were won unfairly, hence not true wins. Wins vacated.

Hmm, I actually didn't think of that. Has there ever been a similar case involving wins being vacated due to criminal activity by one of the players or coaches which would have made them ineligible, which wasn't discovered until after the fact?

 

[Patryn]

Hmm, I actually didn't think of that. Has there ever been a similar case involving wins being vacated due to criminal activity by one of the players or coaches which would have made them ineligible, which wasn't discovered until after the fact?

Vacating wins is not a new thing.

Can't find a list of football vacated wins, but here's a list of basketball wins vacated.

Hell, Ohio State just barely vacated an entire season.

 

[Cyan]

which wasn't discovered until after the fact?

?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

God I hate these people.

Yup. You and me both.

rjc, two things.

1) Your comparisons are way out of whack. You are comparing slavery and child rape to FOOTBALL.

2) You seem to be missing the point of the vacation. It's not about pretending they never happened. Everyone knows they happened. It's about a blow to PSU's pride, to the Paterno legacy, to ensure that students years from now will have never understood the power the Paterno name once held.

Edit:

The players in those vacated games... they aren't hurt. It's their college record, and they are out of college, who the fuck cares about their college record? If they went pro, their pro record counts for more. If they didn't, then they should be preoccupied with their JOBS.

Seriously, this damages the Paterno legacy and the culture at PennState, which is the point of the entire thing.

Yes he has. Someone's out in lala land. This needs to be quoted again. Maybe it will get through to him.

 

[eznark]

Joe Paterno is no longer the winningest coach in college football history. The worst part is he's not here to suffer through this embarrassment.

What does that have to do with player stats?