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[OriginalNameGuy]

Some former PSU players have reacted to the wins vacation
"NCAA says games didn't exist..I got the metal plate in my neck to prove it did..I almost died playing 4 PSU..punishment or healing?!? #WeAre"
Tali43 (Adam Taliaferro)

"ah crap... so i lost every college football game i ever played in?"
Evan_Royster

"They can take away whatever games they want to, I know I was apart of win 400 409 and all the other games WE won while at PSU"
dmoye6 (Derrek Moye)

 

[Jarmel]

What difference could it possibly make one way or the other?

They trained, practiced, and put effort into those games and for someone to come down and say that your efforts technically don't count because someone way above you fucked up, is kinda messed up. If they at least retain their stats then that's something if they broke records or whatnot.

 

[mattiewheels]

I really wish Joe were here to see it all fall apart. But I'm sure he knew exactly how it would go as soon as this finally caught up with them.

 

[eznark]

They trained, practiced, and put effort into those games and for someone to come down and say that your efforts technically don't count because someone way above you fucked up, is kinda messed up. If they at least retain their stats then that's something if they broke records or whatnot.

It's not like they disappear into the ether and the NCAA goes around and erases everyone's memory.

 

[entremet]

I'm fine with the majority of the punishment, but I've always found vacating wins such a silly punishment.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I'm fine with the majority of the punishment, but I've always found vacating wins such a silly punishment.

Most of the time, I would agree with you. However, this is the one case that I think vacating wins is rather important. Its a step in deJoePaization.

 

[Razorskin]

Did they just Chris Benoit Jerry Sandusky?

 

[george_us]

Desmond Howard:
“The one point that people continue to make that really leaves a bad taste in my mouth, is about the players and how the players should have to pay the price for what happened, as if they don’t have a choice. You read some tweets and some messages and people say, ‘Hey, remember the victims.’ Well, I challenge you to remember the victims, but think about the victims and think about how they were victimized. Think about what they had to go through, and this burly coach was victimizing them. Add some substance to that symbolism and they didn’t have a choice. Those damn victims didn’t have a choice. Why? Because of the culture at Penn State University, particularly in the football department. Now these football players today at Penn State, they have a choice. If you grew up loving Penn State Nittany Lions football and always wanted to play for Penn State, guess what? You can stay. You can represent Penn State and wear that uniform proudly and you’ll have a chance to get a degree from Penn State University, but, if you like to play in the post-season and with all of the luxuries that come along with that sort of opportunity, then you can transfer out today and go to another university and live out those dreams. The players today have a choice. The damn victims didn’t.”

Awesome statement.

Almost makes me forget a Michigan player wrote it.

 

[eznark]

Did they just Chris Benoit Jerry Sandusky?

The NCAA murdered Sandusky's family?

 

[Razorskin]

The NCAA murdered Sandusky's family?

I mean erased from history.

 

[Cyan]

They trained, practiced, and put effort into those games and for someone to come down and say that your efforts technically don't count because someone way above you fucked up, is kinda messed up. If they at least retain their stats then that's something if they broke records or whatnot.

I can't believe someone is actually suggesting that vacating wins is too harsh.

Vacating wins is what the NCAA uses so they can look like they're doing something without actually affecting anything.

 

[mre]

Did they just Chris Benoit Jerry Sandusky?

No, because Sandusy didn't coach in any of these games.

 

[hoos30]

I'm fine with the majority of the punishment, but I've always found vacating wins such a silly punishment.

It is a completely silly punishment in 99% of cases. But in this case, the Joe Pa, PSU "cult" was built on the idolotry of his "legacy", so taking away from or diminishing that is a crippling blow.

 

[Razorskin]

No, because Sandusy didn't coach in any of these games.

So Joe Paterno got Chris Benoit'd?

 

[CrazyDogg77]

I can't believe someone is actually suggesting that vacating wins is too harsh.

Vacating wins is what the NCAA uses so they can look like they're doing something without actually affecting anything.

Seriously it's basically a non-punishing punishment.

 

[Forever]

Seriously it's basically a non-punishing punishment.

It directly hits the culture that spawned the problem in the first place, I think it's important. Everything they wanted to protect by concealing the rapes is now crumbling before their eyes, just as it should be.

 

[Plinko]

Kill the program? No.

Does anyone in this thread actually follow college football?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Several analysts on the radio and TV today were saying the scholarship reduction ALONE is going to kill this program. One guy called it a "walking death penalty."

Everyone I listened to said to expect a mediocre team this year and then a disaster after that.

Losing those scholarships is huge. The team has no depth at that point.

 

[eznark]

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Several analysts on the radio and TV today were saying the scholarship reduction ALONE is going to kill this program. One guy called it a "walking death penalty."

I don't think just the scholarships, but that combined with giving all current players a free pass to get the fuck out of dodge. Had they been essentially forced to stay PSU could have riden it out a bit easier. As it was they got slammed against a shower wall.

 

[Daydream Sequence]

It directly hits the culture that spawned the problem in the first place, I think it's important.

It's very important. It destroys the legacy of Paterno and sends a clear shot at any coach that thinks his program is more important than decency. Paterno's a scumbag. At least now he'll never be a scumbag with the most wins in college football history.

 

[Plinko]

I don't think just the scholarships, but that combined with giving all current players a free pass to get the fuck out of dodge. Had they been essentially forced to stay PSU could have riden it out a bit easier. As it was they got slammed against a shower wall.

That's true, too, but as some were saying those scholarships basically mean you can't bring in any talent for depth. Combine that with the fact that most big-name players won't come anyway until the bowl ban is over and it's a walking death penalty.

 

[giga]

I'm fine with the majority of the punishment, but I've always found vacating wins such a silly punishment.

That's how it is in the NCAA. GT had to vacate our 2009 ACC championship because our AD didn't "fully cooperate" in their investigation. The students didn't do shit, but their championship was taken away either way.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Wow this is more than I thought the NCAA would do. I'm no expert but that seems like a significant punishment, especially the part about vacating past victories. Am I wrong?

 

[marathonfool]

It's ironic some Penn State fans are using their academic record as a defense of these football sanctions.

 

[NervousXtian]

Most of the time, I would agree with you. However, this is the one case that I think vacating wins is rather important. Its a step in deJoePaization.

That was already done, this doesn't do anything of real worth.

Joe's name was tarnished for all time by this.. vacating the wins is pretty much like spitting on the players who played those games and won them.

Joe's dead, Sandusky is in jail, and the others will join them.

Of course Penn State agreed to the terms, they have no choice but to take whatever punishments are handed down at this point. They will also pay dearly financially to the victims.

 

[Battlezone]

Enjoy some reactions from Penn state fans and alums:

I just read this very reasonable post:

We screwed up. Instead of accepting responsibility and moving on, the response of the university, as well as a vocal sect of the PSU community, in the past six months, only served to grow the public's cry for blood.

Had the university been smart, it would have sent a strong message that the allegations were taken so seriously that it would stop at nothing to identify the problem, its cause, and identify solutions. Instead, it has consistently bungled communications. The remaining games in 2011 should have been cancelled.

The continued denial of responsibility, the riots, the senseless debate and defense of "what Joe was legally required to do", all serves as evidence in the court of public opinion that we as a community fail to understand the gravity of the issue, and place our own emotions, the game, and legacy of Joe above pursuit of the truth. (how many comments till someone makes a "free speech" complaint).

I think the "support of PSU = support of child rape" line is completely asinine, too. I've railed on twitter against hacks like Bernstein. I still love my school, and I still love the football program, and I will continue to contribute money and time and love. But we need to accept responsibility for this - both the tragedy and our community's role exaggerating public hatred - and stop whining.

This was one of the of the responses in the comments:

I just beat my wife for being Japanese.
After all, she never apologized to me for bombing Pearl Harbor. I also made her write the word “Contrite” on her Ipad 100 times.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I really wish Joe were here to see it all fall apart. But I'm sure he knew exactly how it would go as soon as this finally caught up with them.

At least his family gets to watch his memory go down the shitter.

 

[eznark]

Wow this is more than I thought the NCAA would do. I'm no expert but that seems like a significant punishment, especially the part about vacating past victories. Am I wrong?

That is the least significant, in terms of how it will impact the program going forward. It kills their legacy, but the lost scholarships as well as unfettering transfers is what will destroy the program.

 

[Pollux]

At least his family gets to watch his memory go down the shitter.

Especially his son whose on ESPN all the time trying I defend JoePa

 

[LyleLanley]

Vacating past victories was just so the NCAA doesn't have to have a child rapist enabler as their winningest coach of all time right?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Vacating past victories was just so the NCAA doesn't have to have a child rapist enabler as their winningest coach of all time right?

They usually do that when they think that the school in question gained an unfair advantage in those wins, like having ineligible paid players on the roster in the case of Reggie Bush, for example. In this case I think the competitive advantage gained during those 14 years by covering up for Sandusky was delaying the eventual fallout. How many of those top recruits would they have been able to keep had it been public what Sandusky and Paterno had done?

 

[OriginalNameGuy]

Vacating past victories was just so the NCAA doesn't have to have a child rapist enabler as their winningest coach of all time right?

That and destroying the"legacy" so many like to bring up when discussing said coach.

 

[alfredofroylan]

Paterno's family response:

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/23/paterno-family-releases-statement-on-ncaa/

 

[Puddles]

Does anyone really give a crap about vacated wins?

Paterno still has the record as far as anyone should be concerned.

 

[giga]

Paterno family response. Keep digging that hole.

Sexual abuse is reprehensible, especially when it involves children, and no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it. The horrific acts committed by Jerry Sandusky shock the conscience of every decent human being. How Sandusky was able to get away with his crimes for so long has yet to be fully understood, despite the claims and assertions of the Freeh report.

The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.

That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public's understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.

The point of due process is to protect against this sort of reflexive action. Joe Paterno was never interviewed by the University or the Freeh Group. His counsel has not been able to interview key witnesses as they are represented by counsel related to ongoing litigation. We have had no access to the records reviewed by the Freeh group. The NCAA never contacted our family or our legal counsel. And the fact that several parties have pending trials that could produce evidence and testimony relevant to this matter has been totally discounted.

Unfortunately all of these facts have been ignored by the NCAA, the Freeh Group and the University.

 

[Cyan]

Paterno's family response:

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/23/paterno-family-releases-statement-on-ncaa/

Text:

Sexual abuse is reprehensible, especially when it involves children, and no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it. The horrific acts committed by Jerry Sandusky shock the conscience of every decent human being. How Sandusky was able to get away with his crimes for so long has yet to be fully understood, despite the claims and assertions of the Freeh report.

The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.

That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public’s understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.

The point of due process is to protect against this sort of reflexive action. Joe Paterno was never interviewed by the University or the Freeh Group. His counsel has not been able to interview key witnesses as they are represented by counsel related to ongoing litigation. We have had no access to the records reviewed by the Freeh group. The NCAA never contacted our family or our legal counsel. And the fact that several parties have pending trials that could produce evidence and testimony relevant to this matter has been totally discounted.

Unfortunately all of these facts have been ignored by the NCAA, the Freeh Group and the University.

Bolded the dumber parts.

 

[mre]

Does anyone really give a crap about vacated wins?

Paterno still has the record as far as anyone should be concerned.

Nope, Bobby Bowden does. See, that's what happens when your wins are vacated. You don't get to use them to prop up your program or your coach.

 

[Kosmo]

Paterno family response. Keep digging that hole.

no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it

They already lost me in the first sentence, considering that's exactly what he did.

Joe Paterno was never interviewed by the University or the Freeh Group.

Because he was dead.

 

[eznark]

Paterno's family response:

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/23/paterno-family-releases-statement-on-ncaa/

The NCAA could never destroy his reputation as effectively and efficiently as his own family is doing. Bravo Paterno's.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Paterno's family response:

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/23/paterno-family-releases-statement-on-ncaa/

Sexual abuse is reprehensible, especially when it involves children, and no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it.

But he fucking did.

 

[Puddles]

Nope, Bobby Bowden does. See, that's what happens when your wins are vacated. You don't get to use them to prop up your program or your coach.

I realize you're an attorney, and semantics are your career, but Paterno was still there as head coach when his team outscored the other team on the field more times than anyone else in the history of college football.

He's the winningest coach in CFB history, with an asterisk. An asterisk, like someone I won't joke about in this thread, but NBA-GAF knows who I mean.

 

[eznark]

I realize you're an attorney, and semantics are your career, but Paterno was still there as head coach when his team outscored the other team on the field more times than anyone else in the history of college football.

He's the winningest coach in CFB history, with an asterisk. An asterisk, like someone I won't joke about in this thread, but NBA-GAF knows who I mean.

The records are kept by the NCAA and they say the wins never happened. Penn State agrees. It's not a semantics argument anymore and it certainly isn't an asterisk.

 

[Cyan]

I realize you're an attorney, and semantics are your career, but Paterno was still there as head coach when his team outscored the other team on the field more times than anyone else in the history of college football.

He's the winningest coach in CFB history, with an asterisk. An asterisk, like someone I won't joke about in this thread, but NBA-GAF knows who I mean.

He's actually not. The record book won't have him in it at the top, with an asterisk. It'll just have Bobby Bowden.

I mean, yes, it's not like the NCAA can go around erasing all our memories. That's why this isn't usually considered much of a punishment.

But from now on, he will no longer be considered the winningest coach in college football.

 

[Lonestar]

Wow this is more than I thought the NCAA would do. I'm no expert but that seems like a significant punishment, especially the part about vacating past victories. Am I wrong?

Not really that serious. It's also been the NCAA's recent punishment of choice. They've been handing out vacated wins like candy. Alabama, USC, Oklahoma, Florida State. All have had wins vacated. I'm sure there are more out there, and more to come.

 

[mre]

I realize you're an attorney, and semantics are your career, but Paterno was still there as head coach when his team outscored the other team on the field more times than anyone else in the history of college football.

He's the winningest coach in CFB history, with an asterisk. An asterisk, like someone I won't joke about in this thread, but NBA-GAF knows who I mean.

Nobody is going to recognize those victories, aside from the segment of the population that is blindly devoted to Joe Paterno. Not even the University is going to recognize those victories.

He's not going to have an asterisk next to his name. He's just going to sit there in twelfth place all time in victories until someone else passes him.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I realize you're an attorney, and semantics are your career, but Paterno was still there as head coach when his team outscored the other team on the field more times than anyone else in the history of college football.

He's the winningest coach in CFB history, with an asterisk. An asterisk, like someone I won't joke about in this thread, but NBA-GAF knows who I mean.

It's not an asterisk. Those wins are vacated. They never happened. Same way the Fab 5's final four banners are gone. That team never went to the title game. You mention an asterisk, well an asterisk would only be needed in the record books, and in the record books those 112 wins for Joe Paterno are gone.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

The NCAA could never destroy his reputation as effectively and efficiently as his own family is doing. Bravo Paterno's.

Yup. Fucking delusional without a doubt.

But he fucking did.

As I said his fucking family are delusional. Just really shows you the kind of scumbags Paterno and apparently his family are. Oh Joe is great he didn't do shit. They fail time and time again to get it through their heads that that is exactly what he did. NOTHING! He let a piece of shit rape children in his football program's facilities. He knew this shit was going on and yet did not lift a goddamn finger to stop it. To me that makes him and everyone else that knew just as guilty as Sandusky is.

 

[t26]

Fun fact, now Mike McQueary is the last QB to get a win for Paterno.

 

[alfredofroylan]

Some of these comments .... dear me.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/ncaa_decision_on_penn_state.html#comments

 

[Puddles]

I'd gladly take up this argument if it were about USC's vacated wins, or the vacated wins of any other team, but arguing for Paterno is definitely not worth it.

All hail Bobby Bowden.

 

[Cyan]

I'd gladly take up this argument if it were about USC's vacated wins, or the vacated wins of any other team, but arguing for Paterno is definitely not worth it.

There's sort of a collective pretending with vacated wins, like how SEC fans like to joke that OSU still hasn't beaten an SEC team in a bowl game. Sometimes people aren't interested in pretending.

But in this case, I think people will go along with it.