timetokill
Banned
For being a small school that dares to play like the big boys
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Penn State football pedophilia thread (UPDATE: NCAA sanctions handed down)
- Thread starter BertramCooper
- Start date
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For being a small school that dares to play like the big boys
perfectchaos007
Member
So fall workouts start in about a week at a lot of schools. I'm assuming the current Penn State players are going to have to make a quick decision whether or not they want to transfer.
BertramCooper
Banned
I think people are entirely too fond of the term "death penalty."
This is arguably every bit as severe.
RobotMafia
Banned
Wow. What the fuck is wrong with people?
From the way FSU's coach was hinting it sounded like they could transfer at any time but would just miss some practice. I haven't seen anything concrete though. The other interesting wrinkle he added was that teams could go over the scholarship limit to get these players but then would be reduced the following year. Makes it seem pretty appealing to contending schools with a lot of seniors?
I think it's more people, me being one of them, being pissed that football is still going to be played this year despite the university enabling and protecting a monster for over a decade. Sure, if you know the consequences to each individual punishment it probably is equal to a year ban but to an average person they see the football team still taking the field just months after this all came to light.
BertramCooper
Banned
Had they received the death penalty, it's doubtful that it would have begun this season. We're way too close to kickoff to put a stop on this season.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Damn, good point. Why has no one brought this up yet?
How do they suffer? They are either in the NFL or the general workforce now. Who cares about a college win/loss record at that point anyway?
Vincent Alexander
Member
The college already got it's money for winning seasons, thus not hurting Penn anymore. And they're already being fined. Why take away the wins? There has to be a better way to strike Paterno's name from the books. I don't care for slash-and-burn punishments.
Spanier denies knowledge of sex abuse allegations
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...es-knowledge-of-sex-abuse-allegations-645893/
Former Penn State President Graham Spanier delivered a three-page letter to the university's Board of Trustees Sunday, telling the group that he had no knowledge of previous allegations of abuse against Jerry Sandusky until he read the grand jury presentment.
In the letter, he casts blame on former Penn State general counsel Cynthia Baldwin, saying that he was guided through the process by her, and that she gave him little information on what was going on.
Specifically, he said that she failed to inform him about the testimony provided to the grand jury by two top administrators, as well as about what they said in her presence during interviews with prosecutors from the state Attorney General's office. Mr. Spanier also contends that Ms. Baldwin failed to inform hiim that he had been subpoenaed to testify.
"She told me I was going voluntarily, as I had previously agreed to do, and she accompanied me before the judge and in the grand jury room and sat through my testimony. I had no preparation or understanding of the context," he wrote in a letter obtained by the Post-Gazette. "As I was being sworn in for my grand jury appearance, much to my surprise she handed over to the judge a thumb-drive containing my entire history of emails back to 2004."
Charles DeMonaco, the attorney representing Ms. Baldwin, said that he and his client deny any improper conduct by Ms. Baldwin.
"She at all times upheld her duties to the university and its agents. She is obligated to maintain silence to fulfill her ethical obligations to the university," Mr. DeMonaco wrote in a statement. "This silence should not be used against her to give credibility to these and other allegations against her. [W]e intend to address factual allegations and legal issues directly with the university and in legal proceedings, not in the media."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...f-sex-abuse-allegations-645893/#ixzz21Ue93VW7
don't think this was posted? says the letter was delivered on Sunday.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...es-knowledge-of-sex-abuse-allegations-645893/
Former Penn State President Graham Spanier delivered a three-page letter to the university's Board of Trustees Sunday, telling the group that he had no knowledge of previous allegations of abuse against Jerry Sandusky until he read the grand jury presentment.
In the letter, he casts blame on former Penn State general counsel Cynthia Baldwin, saying that he was guided through the process by her, and that she gave him little information on what was going on.
Specifically, he said that she failed to inform him about the testimony provided to the grand jury by two top administrators, as well as about what they said in her presence during interviews with prosecutors from the state Attorney General's office. Mr. Spanier also contends that Ms. Baldwin failed to inform hiim that he had been subpoenaed to testify.
"She told me I was going voluntarily, as I had previously agreed to do, and she accompanied me before the judge and in the grand jury room and sat through my testimony. I had no preparation or understanding of the context," he wrote in a letter obtained by the Post-Gazette. "As I was being sworn in for my grand jury appearance, much to my surprise she handed over to the judge a thumb-drive containing my entire history of emails back to 2004."
Charles DeMonaco, the attorney representing Ms. Baldwin, said that he and his client deny any improper conduct by Ms. Baldwin.
"She at all times upheld her duties to the university and its agents. She is obligated to maintain silence to fulfill her ethical obligations to the university," Mr. DeMonaco wrote in a statement. "This silence should not be used against her to give credibility to these and other allegations against her. [W]e intend to address factual allegations and legal issues directly with the university and in legal proceedings, not in the media."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...f-sex-abuse-allegations-645893/#ixzz21Ue93VW7
don't think this was posted? says the letter was delivered on Sunday.
I guess I disagree. I see no 'suffering' on the part of individual players....only on Paterno's legacy and the corrupt football culture. So I can't think of a better way to do it.
Pollux
Member
Arguably worse tbh
Daydream Sequence
Banned
It's not BS at all. If an institution is corrupt, everyone that's part of that institution is going to feel the repercussions. When it happens to a corporation, the employees that had nothing to do with it lose their jobs. When a country gets sanctioned, the poor and destitute suffer. The NCAA is punishing the institution, not individuals. There's nothing remotely BS about that. If you want the institution to change and for other similar institutions to never do what PSU did, you do this. It's the right thing.
Ninja Scooter
Member
From the moment in 1998 when Paterno and his cronies failed to first report, they should have been fired and probably jailed. Just like when players who take money are, from the point, found ineligible to play and all wins they were included in vacated, in this case all wins Paterno took part in since that time are vacated. I have no problem with this. Yes, the rest of the players are innocent, but this is the case every time wins are vacated. The 12th man on the bench didn't get the money the Fab Five got, but the wins he was on the team for are gone too. The rest of the USC team that played alongside Reggie Bush didn't take any money, yet their wins are gone too.
Knux-Future
Banned
Matt Lienart didn't take money from agents, why should he be punished for Reggie Bush's actions?
It's all he had left too.
It's all he had left too.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
I think most intelligent people are looking at it and realizing that it may not be called "the death penalty" but its the death penalty. Penn State won't be fielding a real team for at least 5-10 years.
Pollux
Member
Punishment isn't over completely, they reserved the right to levy a greater punishment at a later date. Not to mention they're probably taking into account the absolute shellacking that PSU is going to get in civil court damages that will be awarded to the victims.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Yeah, the 60 million is just symbolic (it's how much the football program brings in annually). The real money is going to come from all the civil suits. The pain has only just begun for PSU. Should definitely make other universities wary over covering stuff up.
Dude Abides
Banned
The civil suits will almost certainly settle, and I don't know that PSU will have to pay a whole lot. It's generally hard to hold entity A responsible for the misdeeds of person B, even if entity A was aware of them, particularly when person B wasn't an employee when he committed (most of) the crimes.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Wasn't a lot of it done on PSU property or outings?
Vincent Alexander
Member
Because what I want isn't realistic in our society. A crippling, jagged rock to Paterno's skull. Or just a 9-iron to his knees. I'd let him choose, and if he didn't make a decision within a minute, he gets both.
... but you're not ok with crossing out some victories in the record books?
Or were you being sarcastic with that one? Really hard to tell in this thread, some people actually are that nutty.
The Paterno family's still looking for the real killer.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Only half-serious. I'm an idealist and want only those responsible in any way punished. That isn't a valid option, and most are probably correct in stating what has been done is best. In my pretend world though I could take out some frustration on Paterno and other members at Penn with a 9-iron.
Dude Abides
Banned
Yeah, but I don't think that matters too much. You generally don't have a duty to report or prevent the crimes of others, even if they happen on your property.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Isn't he still in the hall of fame?
SouthernDragon
Member
Now this is an appropriate response.
Pollux
Member
Doesn't that depend on a variety of factors? E.G. they would have no duty if it was an uninvited trespasser, however if it was someone who was invited onto the property you have a greater duty to prevent/warn them of harm...?
And this is how you win with class and integrity.
Dude Abides
Banned
Yeah, but that's for stuff like dangerous features on your property, like a broken stair or an open pit or a caged tiger. This is a guy molesting kids, and i dont think that analysis would apply. This is an independent actor choosing to commit crimes, so you have a difficult causation problem there.
I've seen this and similar sentiments expressed a lot recently, and I think that it has much to do with considering how you approach what's happening. I don't think the players, past or present, are really being punished. The institution is responsible for covering up crimes, and is being punished for that, but the players? I don't really think so. The ones who participated in those past victories will certainly always have their memories, and hopefully they're well adjusted enough to realize that college football wins aren't the end-all-be-all of their lives. Those who are now at Penn State have a choice, a chance to grow. They can become stronger, be it at Penn State and enduring the crisis, or going elsewhere and contributing there. If they take this scenario and choose to whine and bemoan their fate, that is their decision, and not the action of a faceless conspiracy against them. After all, aren't we frequently taught that part of what makes sports so great is character building?
Oj is in the hall too but no one cares.
Escape Goat
Member
OJ was acquitted though. That would set a bad precedent of HoF revoking honors over what they think happened (without having any legal stance to base their decisions on).
Where does the money come from? The NCAA has stated it can't come from the athletic department and the Governor has said it can't come from taxes. Get ready for a huge tuition raise Penn State students all over the State of Pennsylvania!
You all are at fault for this. Shame on you.
Oh and sorry any Penn State football player of the last 14 years. You never won a single game.
You all are at fault for this. Shame on you.
Oh and sorry any Penn State football player of the last 14 years. You never won a single game.
I don't know before his latest legal trouble I have seen older football fans around him, he seems to still be likable and charm them and get them to talk to him and buy autographs. I agree newer generation don't care or might not ever heard about his football career but old school guys still like him.
Even in jail?
Really? I think we're through the looking glass here. This shit is crazy.
Definitely the right thing to say and I hope he means it. Unfortunately some of his former players aren't as classy.
I'm not a Penn State fan. I'm for punishments that actually do something to address the problem, this does not.
Go after the people involved, not the entire student body.
SouthernDragon
Member
The players in those vacated games... they aren't hurt. It's their college record, and they are out of college, who the fuck cares about their college record? If they went pro, their pro record counts for more. If they didn't, then they should be preoccupied with their JOBS.
Seriously, this damages the Paterno legacy and the culture at PennState, which is the point of the entire thing.
You're right. It's for people who believe vengeance is a good response, regardless of the collateral damage.
When a father is unable to provide for his family because he is in jail, the state is not punishing his family, he is. The whole fucking point of this is taking some responsibility. Is that entirely lost upon you?
To put it simply, the institution is guilty and the institution was punished. The institution might now be less capable of dishing out goodies to its community, but that's on them. There's no fucking collateral damage here, the damage is right where it should be.
Anymore? I didn't just make that up, I've started doing quick google searches before I bother replying to people in this thread.
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