SouthernDragon
Member
It's like you didn't read what I typed.
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Penn State football pedophilia thread (UPDATE: NCAA sanctions handed down)
- Thread starter BertramCooper
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It's like you didn't read what I typed.
Who on this planet does this benefit? The only benefit is the $60 million going to prevention of sex abuse, period. Penn State would have probably given that if asked to.
It is the definition of getting joy out of vengeance that will do more harm to our state than good. It sends the message that if you have a Pedo at your school you're bad but any other NCAA offense is no biggie.
I'll stand by my previous posts. But this punishment is a punishment handed out because of a public blood lust. It isn't in the interest of the victims, the public or the state of our current economey.
Pollux
Member
True, but with this independent actor it was someone who was doing these things with the knowledge of the property owner. They may not have known about each individual child but they knew that he was a pedophile and that he was bringing children into the facilities and was alone with them.
I think an argument could be made for causation. I'm too lazy to go look up case law but I might take a glance tomorrow at work and see if there's anything.
SouthernDragon
Member
This is not about benefits, this is about punishment, and making an example (and rightly so) of PennState so that this never happens again.
"Don't put killers in jail. It doesn't bring the victims back"
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Oh snap! Detective GAF detectin'!
The institution systemically concealed child rape because they wanted to protect their football program at all costs. Anything less than the destruction of that football program would reinforce that behavior rather than deter it. You can bet that no one in Paterno's shoes will think about a repeat performance, ever. Just as it should be.
Get your priorities in order. The students at a public school might have to pay a bit more because their bureaucracy fucked up? Boo hoo cry me a river, welcome to life. At least in this case it's for a good reason.
It will happen again. Maybe not the same scenario but it will happen again. You're arguement is basically the same as the death penalty will prevent people from murdering. It wont and it doesn't.
Yes. Criminals stop committing crimes because of our justice system. Give me a break.
Just like the SMU death penalty did NOTHING to stop corruption this will do nothing.
"Let's not put people in jail because the crime has already been committed"
What is your argument here? Seems pretty weak.
SouthernDragon
Member
Will child rape happen again? Yeah.
Will someone place their precious football program over child rape?
Not bloody likely.
Did the SMU death penalty stop what caused it? Please answer honestly.
What? My point is that possible punishment has been clearly shown in society to be a pretty awful deterrent.
This is a terribly weak argument. So do nothing is that your argument? I don't understand what you are trying to say here. What is a fitting punishment? Nothing?
There are so many things wrong with this that I hardly know where to begin. For one thing, they're not being pilloried just because they had a pedo at their school, but because they were protecting him as he raped children in their showers. For another, the last part of your sentence doesn't even make sense.
You seem to be arguing that other schools have done worse than what Penn State did and gotten lighter punishments. Is that seriously your argument? Have you thought this through much, or are you just reverting to the cult mentality?
So let's not have a justice system? Wow.
No. Go after the people directly involved. There is no reason that a student 200 miles away at a branch campus should be punished by this and they will be.
I didn't go to penn state and have no loyalty to it but I feel like this is a lust to see blood and doesn't benefit anyone at all. A punishment to satiate the public.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Selfish actions hurt the innocent. It can't be stressed enough.
When a father of four goes to jail for murder(pleads guilty admits to killing the person) the family loses a source of income. Is it the father's fault or the justice system's fault that this income no longer comes to the household?
This question has 2 answers and its multiple choice
(a) father
(b) justice system
It's only hurting the innocent because you want it to. There are plenty of more constructive punishments that would not hurt the innocent.
So you believe the suffering of that family is justified? That family deserves to suffer is what you are saying right? Even if there were alternatives that would punish the father but not the innocent family?
If they are punished it's because Penn State decides to raise their tuition or cut funding to their classes or what have you. That's Penn State's fault.
You didn't answer the question. Were you arguing that other schools have done worse than Penn State and gotten lighter punishments, and if not then what were you saying?
The point is that it's suffering brought upon them by the father, not by the state.
PSU admits liability in the cover-up as part of this agreement. The NCAA just handed all the victims' lawyers a smoking gun with this.
You didn't answer the question. My point exactly lol
We can get to those questions later. Answer my question first. then we will move on to the next one.
It's not Penn States fault. It is the fault of half a dozen people.
Didn't see it sorry. I am rapid firing here to try to respond to everything. It is the fathers fault but because he is at fault doesn't mean the family should suffer.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Such as?
Yet thousands side with Penn State. In order for the culture to change, they must be punished.
I totally agree. Those innocent children had nothing to do with it. However, they are affected by his decisions. It's sad but thats how life works sometimes.
gutter_trash
Banned
it actually is Penn State's fault, too concerned in preserving reputation, prestige and $$$$$$ over doing the right thing
I was being facetious on the last page.
So you're okay with punishing tens of thousands who don't side with them to go after those who do?
I don't think it is a proper analogy in this case in that the father(Paterno, Spanier...etc,) can be punished without pushing the family as opposed to your analogy.
Wait... so are you a PSU fan/student or aren't you? You kind of dodged Cyan there.
Alright then since you acknowledge the father and family analogy, would you not concede that the punishment needs to exist? It's possible to put the father on probation or community service, but if he murdered someone then something more serious is called for. What Penn State did was as serious as it gets, so they got a harsh punishment, and that means the family has to suffer. That's the way it is.
Sure you can do that with the father too. Put him on probation. Punishment doesn't fit the crime. That's the whole point here. Commonly punishments for big problems impact much more than the people who committed them.
Dude Abides
Banned
If you live with your brother, and he's an armed robber, are you obligated to warn all your visitors or report him to the police lest you be liable to your visitors if he robs them? IIRC criminal acts of others are typically a superseding cause.
I am a Notre Dame fan and have never attended Penn State. I'm not trying to dodge anyone but if you haven't noticed I have quite a few posts to reply to every second. Sorry if I don't catch yours.
I'm not defending the actions of those involved and I hope nobody gets that idea from my posts. I am for going after those whose inaction let this continue, not the students and athletes who had no clue this was happening.
How does throwing them all in jail not fit the crime?
The students stat's didn't get removed. Only their wins. The only stat paterno had was wins.
The impact on the kids is indirect not direct. The impact on the players is indirect not direct. They aren't forcing them to retire from their current position in life. Or return their football scholarships.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6ykE3VyiU
He was covering up many things..they should consider themselves lucky the NCAA didn't investigate further.
Who said anything about throwing them all in jail? What the hell are you talking about? If you jail the father he can't provide for his family. If you sanction PSU they might have to raise tuition. What are you not getting here? Or do you reject the idea that the institution of Penn State did something wrong?
No need to apologize to me, it wasn't one of my posts I was looking for a reply to. And my condolences for being a Notre Dame fan.
You do realize that athletic programs like Women's Soccer will be affected by this? It isn't just about prior players. Most of these athletes don't get scholarships and the loss of football money might end up with their sport being tossed out.
Throw those who let it happen in jail. I don't see the need to make others suffer.
Penn Sate will be just fine without Paterno, Curly, Spanier and co. I.E. the "Father". That is why it is a poor analogy. The money doesn't come from them, it comes from the students, ticket sales and taxes.
To who much is given much is expected.
When you are in charge of many people your bad decisions commonly have an impact on them.
When you are in charge of many people your bad decisions commonly have an impact on them.
Yup I do. Too bad this had to happen. Blame the football culture and PSU( common at a lot of division 1 schools). Football being bigger than the real administration. I bet coverups have at D1 all over the place. PSU got caught thats the only difference.
Only because you want it to. It doesn't have to.
So your argument is that this is not, in fact, a punishment levied upon the institution of Penn State? I dunno plain facts seem to contradict this but you're entitled to your version of reality I guess.
Can't happen, or PSU is in violation of the consent decree. No other sport can be harmed by this. And if any sport would be in danger of losing funding in our hypothetical situation, it would first be a male sport thanks to Title IX.
Yeah for people who don't want to actually have responsibility for their actions. Like a father who commits murder and disregards his children.
Let me guess...there's more visible outrage about the punishment to a spectator sport program than there is about the dozens of children literally being raped, and that said institution covered it up and allowed it to continue? Just checking.
Pollux
Member
In some cases they are, but it depends on the situation.
In Flood v. Southland Corp (33 Mass.App.Ct. 287) it was held that a convenience store owner was liable for an assault that took place outside his store since the assault was reasonable foreseeable. In my opinion, and it's not the same thing and it is a completely different jurisdiction, it is reasonably foreseeable that a a child taken alone into the football facilities by a known pedophile is in danger and the owner of the property who knows of the danger to the child would have a duty to protect the child.
Just my opinion though based on a cursory glance through WestLaw (despite being in the wrong jurisdiction).
Edit: I've only got access to MA cases atm. Otherwise I would look in PA
If there were no consequences to actions, there would be no society. Unfortunate yes, but ultimately necessary.
I still don't get all of this. We have Prison for the people responsible, put them there any leave everyone else alone.
Throw those responsible in Prison.
PS Football makes 50,000,000 a year, much of which goes to funding other sports. The other sports make 30,000,000 a year all together.
If by "institution" you mean a dozen of people.
Yes everyone knows that PSU makes a lot of money from their football team. It's sad that since they make so money from their team that some people were willing to coverup children being sexual abused.
The NCAA sanctions has a large impact on the school...
You know what PSU KNEW THAT IT WAS GOING TO IMPACT MORE THAN SANDUSKY HENCE THEY KEPT IT COVERED UP. PSU knew that this had a much bigger impact than sandusky. If they didn't they would have probably reported it initially.
The NCAA sanctions has a large impact on the school...
You know what PSU KNEW THAT IT WAS GOING TO IMPACT MORE THAN SANDUSKY HENCE THEY KEPT IT COVERED UP. PSU knew that this had a much bigger impact than sandusky. If they didn't they would have probably reported it initially.
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