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Penny Arcade's Gabe (Mike) apologizes for being a bully.
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
timetokill
Banned
He did own it.
But he also explained WHY he thinks he is the way he is. It's not an excuse, and he says as much. But you don't get to this point without introspection and his post basically lets the reader in on his conclusion.
I don't see how this post could possibly be a bad thing. But the internet is I think too critical/cynical for personalities to have any depth.
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
I feel like no matter how sincere his attempt to fix his personal troubles, he's done so much damage already that it's going to be difficult to regain sympathy from those he has offended.
GotchaForce
Member
This. I used to read the comic a lot and bought the collected editions when they'd get released. I visited PAX East a couple years ago and had a great time. But this thing keeps happening where they antagonize people and then apologize over and over and I'm tired of it.
This is not part of that cycle, though. Unless I missed some new controversy, that cycle he listed is not actually repeating here. It's just a post about Mike's self-reflection and desire to do better this year, and how far he'll need to change in order to do so. He's talking specifically about breaking that cycle.
charlequin
Banned
So this is definitely a positive development. Mike Krahulik is a huge fucking asshole, but it's always good to recognize your own problems and try to solve them. That said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating: if we see a notably different attitude from Gabe this year, it's one thing, but just apologizing in and of itself means nothing.
In an ideal world, those guys could find some way to salvage some of the good they did (by organizing PAX and starting Child's Play, among other things) previously, but I'm definitely not gonna hold my breath.
Well, I wouldn't go that far.
The world is full of assholes, and a ton of them never learn approximately anything in their whole useless lives. Almost all of them, at least in some part, learned assholishness from people who were assholes to them, when they were too young to learn any other way to deal with it. I think if we lived in a world where people tended to get over that, most people's lives would be way happier.
Ridiculous. Abusive shitheads need to work hard to earn forgiveness. However much it might horrify him to realize, Mike's made it clear in the last few years that he's an abusive shithead.
If PAhad done one dumb thing, we wouldn't have been having this conversation; instead, it's a string of things, both hideously ignorant and offensive things in the workplace/business world (like their greedy Kickstarter or ludicrously demeaning IT job posting) and tone-deaf and exclusionary crap in the gaming world (like shitting on rape survivors and trans people.) The steps to be "forgiven" for that wall of mistakes are quite extensive.
In an ideal world, those guys could find some way to salvage some of the good they did (by organizing PAX and starting Child's Play, among other things) previously, but I'm definitely not gonna hold my breath.
Well, I wouldn't go that far.
The world is full of assholes, and a ton of them never learn approximately anything in their whole useless lives. Almost all of them, at least in some part, learned assholishness from people who were assholes to them, when they were too young to learn any other way to deal with it. I think if we lived in a world where people tended to get over that, most people's lives would be way happier.
Ridiculous. Abusive shitheads need to work hard to earn forgiveness. However much it might horrify him to realize, Mike's made it clear in the last few years that he's an abusive shithead.
If PAhad done one dumb thing, we wouldn't have been having this conversation; instead, it's a string of things, both hideously ignorant and offensive things in the workplace/business world (like their greedy Kickstarter or ludicrously demeaning IT job posting) and tone-deaf and exclusionary crap in the gaming world (like shitting on rape survivors and trans people.) The steps to be "forgiven" for that wall of mistakes are quite extensive.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, I always figured Gabe saw himself as retaliating against bullies rather than being a bully when he went Full Asshole in response to drama. And to be fair to him, some portions of the internet social justice community are bullies who are more interested in finding excuses to be hateful assholes than making the world a better place.
I think it would be better for him to just be kinder, not speak up about things that will obviously incite anger from your target audience (I won't even act like one of those condescending dicks telling him not to say things he doesn't understand), and do everything in his power to make sure PAX is a safe place for everyone even if he doesn't get noticed for it. Every time he tries to appeal to the people who clearly don't like him, very few people ever respond with anything other than a scoff at worst and severe skepticism at best.
Be a good person and people will eventually notice. These apologies are just restarting an overblown discussion and making it worse.
Be a good person and people will eventually notice. These apologies are just restarting an overblown discussion and making it worse.
charlequin
Banned
It's not, it's definitely a positive thing. But nobody owes him anything more than "okay, that's a good first step on a looooooong road" for it.
robotzombie
Member
are you Sherlock Holmes?
timetokill
Banned
Well, sure. But I was mostly responding to the "oh this is just a sob story" and "sounds like he's making excuses for his behavior and not really apologizing" or "why can't he just shut up and draw comics" types of posts. I'm not saying anybody needs to celebrate it but the harsh reactions to the post don't really make sense to me.
The Right Deal
Banned
What rubs me the wrong way about this apology is that he starts off by immediately blaming other people for the way he acts. It's a quick turn off, but I think the last couple paragraphs show someone who has taken a deep look at them self, knows what their issues are and wants to change for the better. Good on this guy.
And he's apologized for those things and wants to change who he is. You can be leery of him, sure. You can wait and see if he's sincere. It sure seems that he is the way he wrote it. But holding onto past offenses after the offender has asked for true forgiveness from an open heart is now on you, not on them.
If I punch you in the face and then later apologize and say "I'm sorry, I realize now I shouldn't have done that. Please forgive me. I won't ever do it again, I want to change. Just watch me change, but give me that benefit of the doubt" And I said it in a deeply contemplative way that shows I'm sincere and I was foolishly ignorant that my actions caused true harm to you. And you said "screw you man, unforgivable!" Then... you're no better or less ignorant than that person used to be. Especially if my actions are counter to my past and then you say 3 years from now, "Nah you're a jerk you punched me in the face that one time!" I agree, it's too early to tell on his actions. I'm just saying benefit of the doubt should be given if sincerely asked.
Hence I find it ironic that some posters aren't saying "Well he was a serious jerk, but he seems sincere and sorry and has made steps recently. So I'll give him the benefit and see how it goes." but instead "Nah son, you're done. Unforgiven forever!" thus becoming the unsympathizing ahole they are rallying against.
Lol... Just like this poster below me.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think the opening of his apology sounds sincere. It seems he's trying to set the stage for getting across he does understand why he is acting like an asshole. Rather than just saying "uh, sure, yeah, I'll not be an asshole again" without meaning it because he doesn't believe he is actually an asshole.
The thing is, his account is not a particularly contrived sob story. The internet is crammed full of people who are exactly like Mike: adult nerds who are resentful of their past, and have become "internet tough guys". Hateful bullies who imagine they're warriors of justice, delivering vicious barbs to fools who deserve to be reamed.
It's just this particular person happens to be a lot more famous than the rest. Maybe that made it worse. Mike got relatively rich off such behavior, and I'd expect that has really shielded him from the truth for years.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I'd rather him do this, actually stop being an asshole, and stop apologizing over and over and over again.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
This must have been hard to write.
It's a good first step, a humble one too. I hope that he continues this.
Gentleman Jack
Member
There are invariably people who refuse to read or comprehend when a thread about PA gets madeTFA said:
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Talk is cheap, especially from this guy.
charlequin
Banned
This is ludicrous reasoning. You're equating unprompted malicious actions to a refusal to forgive someone for those things. This is the kind of logic you see in those cliche stories about the school principal who drags two kids into their office because one punched the other, and then punishes them both with detention until they make up. That kid who got punched doesn't owe anybody anything!
In the court system, we don't just forgive people when they're sorry; we force them to atone, by being punished or paying money to the people they've hurt. This would be a great time for Gabe to show he's serious by doing just that, and starting to use some of PA's economic muscle to make a change in the world.
Seriously?
In my, like, actual real life, I keep careful tabs of how people behave towards me, my friends, my family, and my associates. If someone punched one of them for no goddamn reason, you're damn right I wouldn't forgive them for it; I would make sure to tell anyone I knew that they were a violent nutcase and you shouldn't ever deal with them. If they acted like they were in the right on it and didn't back down from further confrontation, I would call the goddamn police. I certainly wouldn't do something horrible like tell the person who got punched in the face that it's all in the past and now it's on them to forgive and forget.
this. from what i can see there is pretty much nothing he can do. it's pretty sad actually.
charlequin
Banned
The very, very short version:
- After they drew a comic with a joke that people said made light of rape survivors (arguable) he doubled down on the joke, printed up shirts with it, bragged about wearing one to the con, and then later told people he regretted pulling the shirts from the store.
- Went on a giant twitter rant about how trans people aren't really of their preferred gender and can't ever be, because of their birth genitals.
- PA as an organization listed a ludicrous job listing for an IT person that any serious professional would scoff at, with the hope that fanboyism would trick people into working for less than they were worth.
There's other stuff, but those are the three big hits.
There's plenty he can do, just none of it causes magical instant forgiveness. When you fuck up, you work hard over a long period of time to be forgiven, that's how it works in the real world.
Big-ass Ramp
hella bullets that's true
Oh god, working IT for this guy would be a fucking nightmare.
You're reading what you want to read but you don't have the clarity or wherewithal necessary to recognize your own biases. As a result, any attempt to correct you will only further cement you in your flawed reading of his statement and reinforce the idea that your distaste for the man is in no way disproportionate to the actions of the man himself.
I absolutely agree. An apology isn't meant to be a platform to gain sympathy or publicise your "soul searching". If he wanted to say he was sorry, then that was all he needed to say. Everything else distracts from the supposed core intention of the article.
Nobody cares about his personal story, or the external circumstances throughout his past that accumulated into his resultant behaviour, or the colour of his favourite Sunday jeans. All of these are irrelevant and serve as emotional stuffing to somehow validate his apology; to make it seem more sincere and more "grounded" than a straightforward one. Unfortunately, it works on some people, as displayed in this thread.
I should note that I am apathetic towards the controversy surrounding PA.
Gentleman Jack
Member
True, but let's begin by not misrepresenting what he actually says going forward.
Dreamwriter
Member
...which is why he's making this New Years Resolution to change. It's not really an apology but his resolution, as the title of his post says.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Can somebody give me the context of why I'm supposed to hate Penny Arcade now? I feel so out of the loop. I thought they just made shitty comics.
This is inaccurate. He stated he regretted reacting to the controversy they way they did but that they have no desire for the shirt to be back up on the store. You state this as if to say he regrets taking them from the store because he believes he was always in the right but that's simply not true and completely disengenuous.
He went on a rant about biological sex, not gender, going so far as to even clarify that he viewed them as two different things. Your description isn't even close to accurate.
It's just comforting to know that while Mike Krahulik may want to stop acting like a child, you can still come back to the kindergarten that is GAF.
charlequin
Banned
I think that, demonstratively, a lot of people care about his personal story.
Would it have killed you to read just, like, the last ten posts in the thread before asking?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Read several summaries posts in this thread?
Like the time he donated $20k to the Trevor Porject and has never made a new hateful transphobic remark since? It kinda shows how he was learning to change his behavior toward that issue. And now it seems he's seeing a much broader picture of who he is.
So a person punches you in the face. Makes a heartfelt apology days later after realizing it was a horrible mistake, maybe they get an assault charge, whatever you want. Everything is atoned for from a societal viewpoint. You're never going to accept their apology? Just going to hold onto that grudge forever? Tell everyone you can they're a pyshco and omit the part where they changed their ways? People can't be ignorant? People can't be wrong? People can't change? People can't be sorry?
If your answer to this is "no you won't accept their apology, they're psycho" Then yes it's on you. They're done. And if you go "wtf are you talking about?" then you have no idea how forgiveness works and I highly doubt I'd be the one to explain it to you over the internet.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Actions > words, etc. I feel like I've seen it all before with this guy, but if he really wants to try and grow as a person then good for him.
RoninChaos
Member
charlequin
Banned
To quote:
So, sorry, he didn't say he regretted it, he said it was a "mistake," when the reason they pulled it in the first place was that it made people uncomfortable.
This is seriously what every obnoxious transphobic asshole does when someone points out to them that trans people exist.
Why should we? Does knowing his personal story increase the likelihood of his apology being sincere?
KojiKnight
Member
No win situation is always no win when the other side isn't even willing to work with someone.
Even when your side wins, you lose if you don't accept it gracefully.
Even when your side wins, you lose if you don't accept it gracefully.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The point of the personal story isn't just "this is what happened to me" though, its "this is what happened to me and this is how I perceived it and justified myself and now I look back and realize I was wrong"
charlequin
Banned
Also a good step and one I recognized at the time, but frankly, it's up to trans people to decide whether to forgive him on that particular score.
WTF, no, of course I'm not just going to automatically accept their apology. You can't possibly be serious with this.
Let's try to recontextualize this. Imagine you have a kid, and they do some bratty but normal kid thing, like not sharing a toy at recess. In response, this other kid's parent gets mad and socks them in the face, gives them a black eye, they have to go home, stay out of school for a few days, giant swelling, can't see right, the whole nine yards.
Are you telling me that in this scenario, you'd accept an apology for that? That you'd make your kid, who was defenseless and did nothing remotely proportional to deserve it, accept an apology? That you'd ever consider that person remotely safe to be around children again? Forgiveness is proportional to behavior.
funkystudent
Member
So who had more apologies in 2013? Gabe or EA?
I think that's a little closed-minded and general too. While I agree you are whatever gender you decide you are, there's always grounds to discuss the differences between the genitalia you're given and someone who is transgendered. Discussing that as a core idea and even questioning what determines gender isn't assholish. The ignorant thing he did was in HOW he conveyed his opinion and how unreasonable he was when he said it.