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[Tenebrous]

As long as all men and women can pass the same requirements of the positions, I'm all for it.

Yeah, this is all it should come down to. If you can pass the test, then you get the job.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I don't like to see women in combat. Nothing against women, but in my opinion seeing women die in combat is a huge hit to morale since natural instincts of men are to protect women, so casualties among women could lead to some very unfortunate incidents and PTSDs.

Women should have the opportunity to do and excel at anything they put their minds to, but seeing women in harms way makes me very uneasy.

Maybe it is just me but even in books, movies and video games, every time a woman dies it just hits me hard.

Is it just me? I hope I am not offending anyone, that is definitely not my intent, just my thoughts on this.

The military protects everyone, not just women.

Your opinion is pretty misguided. PTSD has nothing to do with sex.

 

[leadbelly]

I understand the physical fitness issue. That is something that needs to be worked out.

On the other hand though, dodging bullets isn't my idea of fun, so more power to the women that are willing to put themselves in harms way.

It should be doing things on men's terms and not special status.

 

[Mac the KNife]

Wow, that's incredible. About time.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

hmmph. just means more wood for the fire.

 

[aeolist]

Interesting point that everyone is ignoring. Why is the selective service system still males only at this point in time?

because changing that would require congressional action, which isn't happening

 

[User 73706]

I don't like to see women in combat. Nothing against women, but in my opinion seeing women die in combat is a huge hit to morale since natural instincts of men are to protect women, so casualties among women could lead to some very unfortunate incidents and PTSDs.

Women should have the opportunity to do and excel at anything they put their minds to, but seeing women in harms way makes me very uneasy.

Maybe it is just me but even in books, movies and video games, every time a woman dies it just hits me hard.

Is it just me? I hope I am not offending anyone, that is definitely not my intent, just my thoughts on this.

I take it you enjoyed Tomb Raider 2013?

 

[kirblar]

because changing that would require congressional action, which isn't happening

Lawsuit probably will, though.

 

[Culex]

I spent 8 years in the infantry for the army so I can only speak for them. That said, the physical requirements that were needed and what I was put through during my Afghan deployments makes me scared- scared of what dumbed down requirements for woman.

I was deployed alongside as joint missions with some navy comsec ladies and we would have them play with our heavy weapons including the M2 .50 cal. Not one could pull the bolt back with one hand.

 

[Zambatoh]

Heh. This reminds me of Jill's Bio in the early Resident Evil games, where she was in some kind of Special Forces unit in the military prior to joining STARS.
Too bad that was the 90s.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I spent 8 years in the infantry for the army so I can only speak for them. That said, the physical requirements that were needed and what I was put through during my Afghan deployments makes me scared- scared of what dumbed down requirements for woman.

I was deployed alongside as joint missions with some navy comsec ladies and we would have them play with our heavy weapons including the M2 .50 cal. Not one could pull the bolt back with one hand.

Here's a question. If the design of the guns were such that it was so difficult to pull back only because they knew it was gonna be physically fit men using them, would you welcome a redesign so that the weapon were easier to operate? Maybe the user experience of the gun is sub-optimal as it is.

 

[Storm Raider]

This is all that really matters. And as long as they don't have to dumb down the requirements all around

Dumb them down??

Implying women are dumb??

Smh

/s

 

[Kin5290]

I don't like to see women in combat. Nothing against women, but in my opinion seeing women die in combat is a huge hit to morale since natural instincts of men are to protect women, so casualties among women could lead to some very unfortunate incidents and PTSDs.

Women should have the opportunity to do and excel at anything they put their minds to, but seeing women in harms way makes me very uneasy.

Maybe it is just me but even in books, movies and video games, every time a woman dies it just hits me hard.

Is it just me? I hope I am not offending anyone, that is definitely not my intent, just my thoughts on this.

Women are already put into harms way and have already been killed in combat. The nature of modern war means that even ostensible non combat risk facing combat every time they go outside the wire.

Hell, take CSTs. These are female "noncombat support troops" who are supposed to keep up with special forces, face the same risk of attack as special forces, and fight alongside special forces, but just aren't officially "special forces".

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I wonder how this will change military culture over the next few decades, which will by extension change "bro" culture, too. Exciting times!

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Weird to hear some of my Marine friends concerned about physical performance especially carrying gear while Air Force friend linked the announcement in approval.

 

[kirblar]

Weird to hear some of my Marine friends concerned about physical performance especially carrying gear while Air Force friend linked the announcement in approval.

Think about the difference in combat roles.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I don't like to see women in combat. Nothing against women, but in my opinion seeing women die in combat is a huge hit to morale since natural instincts of men are to protect women, so casualties among women could lead to some very unfortunate incidents and PTSDs.

LOL

 

[Nekofrog]

Think about the difference in combat roles.

Air Force combat roles are as physically demanding as every other service. TACP, PJ, SERE, combat controller.

All services combat roles are pretty much equal (save for the super specialized elite groups, but even the AF has theirs), as that's what they are. Combat roles. All services desk jockey jobs are pretty much the same, too. It's just that for the Air Force, the desk jockey job makes up a huge majority of it.

 

[matt05891]

Here's a question. If the design of the guns were such that it was so difficult to pull back only because they knew it was gonna be physically fit men using them, would you welcome a redesign so that the weapon were easier to operate? Maybe the user experience of the gun is sub-optimal as it is.

"Welcome to the suck ladies". While yes there are some things that could be better optimized the weapon systems are basic; such as racking the chamber, are heavy for a reason. To be strong enough to withstand the elements and being thrown around in combat. If you were to redesign some weapon systems to make them less difficult to use(in this example of strength), you would be making them more intricate and prone to faliure. In combat that is the diffrence between life and death. If you are unable to work the weapon systems on the battlefield when it comes to pulling back a bolt then I highly doubt you could pull a wounded person out of harms way. In that I say that individual has no place in the forward infantry. However if it all falls the way it should those who can't adhere to the standards will be nixed just as with men. It's not sexism to have standards the same; its the cold hard facts of life and death.

Personally this is coming from someone who could never do that line of work either and is in the military working on jets.

 

[Strider7]

I spent 8 years in the infantry for the army so I can only speak for them. That said, the physical requirements that were needed and what I was put through during my Afghan deployments makes me scared- scared of what dumbed down requirements for woman.

I was deployed alongside as joint missions with some navy comsec ladies and we would have them play with our heavy weapons including the M2 .50 cal. Not one could pull the bolt back with one hand.

9 years Infantry Recon myself here, now serving in a Special Forces unit. I agree that the things we did, both in training and in combat, were (very respectfully) far outside the capability and hardship that I've seen most military women be able to handle. That being said, if they are absolutely no bullshit required to meet the same standards, then I guess lets give this a shot.

But that doesn't mean just passing a PT test. That means proficiency in combat tasks. It means carrying a casualty, likely a full grown-ass man in hundreds of pounds of combat gear and equipment, out of the fight. That means keeping a cool head when calling in for a MEDEVAC, or dealing with the extreme discomfort and filthy living conditions of being in a sniper hide site for over 24 hours.

Myself having gone through the US Army Ranger School in 2009, I was impressed, albeit a bit skeptical, with the female Rangers that graduated this year. If they were indeed held to the true standards, then I can see them being an asset to a combat unit.

If it was rigged, as has been suggested and reported: http://www.people.com/article/female-ranger-school-graduation-planned-advance Then I am legitimately concerned about the readiness and effectiveness of our fighting forces being placed on the back burner in favor of a political stunt.

Either way, it's set into motion now. So I guess lets see if it works out for the better. I really truly hope it does.

 

[Culex]

9 years Infantry Recon myself here, now serving in a Special Forces unit. I agree that the things we did, both in training and in combat, were (very respectfully) far outside the capability and hardship that I've seen most military women be able to handle. That being said, if they are absolutely no bullshit required to meet the same standards, then I guess lets give this a shot.

But that doesn't mean just passing a PT test. That means proficiency in combat tasks. It means carrying a casualty, likely a full grown-ass man in hundreds of pounds of combat gear and equipment, out of the fight. That means keeping a cool head when calling in for a MEDEVAC, or dealing with the extreme discomfort and filthy living conditions of being in a sniper hide site for over 24 hours.

Myself having gone through the US Army Ranger School in 2009, I was impressed, albeit a bit skeptical, with the female Rangers that graduated this year. If they were indeed held to the true standards, then I can see them being an asset to a combat unit.

If it was rigged, as has been suggested and reported: http://www.people.com/article/female-ranger-school-graduation-planned-advance Then I am legitimately concerned about the readiness and effectiveness of our fighting forces being placed on the back burner in favor of a political stunt.

Either way, it's set into motion now. So I guess lets see if it works out for the better. I really truly hope it does.

I would never make it through ranger school, and I I doubt I would make it through marine infantry school, so hoo-ah to you!

If woman can pass the men's test, I'm ok with that. I've been out since 08 so I don't know what it's like now but if a woman can do the man's fitness test, I would welcome her as a soldier.

 

[Ebolarama]

In the navy we have separate berthings and heads (restrooms) for men and for women on a ship or on base (as is the case in every branch's bases).
One question I have is in regards to that separation of the sexes in the more personal moments: In the field in Afghanistan or other such shitholes, one must learn to literally shit in a hole. Will women be able to do that in the presence of a male? There's really nothing gained by the mission if the OP has to have separate holes and separate sleeping quarters to keep things professional. I know it's gross and a rather mundane thing to focus on but it is a reality faced by a man--and now woman--on the frontline.
It's not something to be addressed in polite society but I think it's something that will be encountered in real combat. It will make for a very uncomfortable situation for many I would expect. But in the end I don't think it makes sense to divide an OP or a latrine in the field that way.

(I understand there are many other debates amid the topic like the physical requirements, but this is an aspect of the combat role that a homogeneous unit need not concern itself with, and because it is a basic human process will not be avoidable).

 

[JAV Actress]

We'll see, I've been around the military my entire life and I'm all for anyone joining and doing what they want to do. It's going to be interesting in the next 5 years.

Myself having gone through the US Army Ranger School in 2009, I was impressed, albeit a bit skeptical, with the female Rangers that graduated this year. If they were indeed held to the true standards, then I can see them being an asset to a combat unit.

If it was rigged, as has been suggested and reported: http://www.people.com/article/female-ranger-school-graduation-planned-advance Then I am legitimately concerned about the readiness and effectiveness of our fighting forces being placed on the back burner in favor of a political stunt.

I mean, some of them were given more chances than any male has ever gotten (held back etc) which is total bullshit. I don't even agree with letting anyone be held back a week.

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah, I don't care what you identify as, as long as you can do the job. In infantry roles that means being able to perform certain physical tasks. As long as you can do those thing and carry my wounded arse out you are good yo go.

 

[Vicetrailia]

When it comes to physical fitness requirements the army is old fashioned anyway. They need to update. The focus on BMI and hip circumference leaves a lot to be desired.

Pushups, pull-ups and mile runs are the very basics.

 

[neogaffer1]

When it comes to physical fitness requirements the army is old fashioned anyway. They need to update. The focus on BMI and hip circumference leaves a lot to be desired.

Pushups, pull-ups and mile runs are the very basics.

is this actually a thing? is it as arbritary as it sounds or does it have actual medical basis?

 

[AlimNassor]

good but, it seems as though the current standards exist to bar them from joining combat roles. I find it hard to believe women are unable to pass these PTs.

 

[kirblar]

good but, it seems as though the current standards exist to bar them from joining combat roles. I find it hard to believe women are unable to pass these PTs.

Why? Because men and women are "equal?" Physically, they're not. Testosterone is a natural steroid that men get at 10x the rate women do when puberty hits. The differences aren't "men trying to hold the women down", its how our bodies work. (It's why women with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome have to undergo hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete on the world stage.)

 

[besada]

In the field in Afghanistan or other such shitholes, one must learn to literally shit in a hole. Will women be able to do that in the presence of a male?

After I stopped laughing, I reminded myself that some people don't have sisters, or haven't gone camping with women. Women are fully capable of shitting in the middle of nowhere, in and/or near the presence of men. I imagine some women would have a problem with it, just as you'll find many men have a problem with it. We've got folks here on GAF that can't shit if there's another human within 500 ft of them. But when you've pounded an MRE, and you're in the middle of desert, and your choices are shit in a hole or shit in your pants and wear it for however long it takes, women are going to go shit in a hole. Maybe not the first time, but they won't be the first recruit to shit their pants in combat, either.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

In the navy we have separate berthings and heads (restrooms) for men and for women on a ship or on base (as is the case in every branch's bases).
One question I have is in regards to that separation of the sexes in the more personal moments: In the field in Afghanistan or other such shitholes, one must learn to literally shit in a hole. Will women be able to do that in the presence of a male? There's really nothing gained by the mission if the OP has to have separate holes and separate sleeping quarters to keep things professional. I know it's gross and a rather mundane thing to focus on but it is a reality faced by a man--and now woman--on the frontline.
It's not something to be addressed in polite society but I think it's something that will be encountered in real combat. It will make for a very uncomfortable situation for many I would expect. But in the end I don't think it makes sense to divide an OP or a latrine in the field that way.

(I understand there are many other debates amid the topic like the physical requirements, but this is an aspect of the combat role that a homogeneous unit need not concern itself with, and because it is a basic human process will not be avoidable).

you forgot that women don't poop

 

[ApharmdX]

Good. This was a long time in coming.

Now they need to be required to register for Selective Service. Or it be abolished completely. One or the other.

Absolutely this.

 

[Satch]

I don't like to see women in combat. Nothing against women, but in my opinion seeing women die in combat is a huge hit to morale since natural instincts of men are to protect women, so casualties among women could lead to some very unfortunate incidents and PTSDs.

Women should have the opportunity to do and excel at anything they put their minds to, but seeing women in harms way makes me very uneasy.

Maybe it is just me but even in books, movies and video games, every time a woman dies it just hits me hard.

Is it just me? I hope I am not offending anyone, that is definitely not my intent, just my thoughts on this.

men have been treating women like dogshit pretty consistently throughout history, this post isnt realistic at all

 

[Ebolarama]

After I stopped laughing, I reminded myself that some people don't have sisters, or haven't gone camping with women. Women are fully capable of shitting in the middle of nowhere, in and/or near the presence of men. I imagine some women would have a problem with it, just as you'll find many men have a problem with it. We've got folks here on GAF that can't shit if there's another human within 500 ft of them. But when you've pounded an MRE, and you're in the middle of desert, and your choices are shit in a hole or shit in your pants and wear it for however long it takes, women are going to go shit in a hole. Maybe not the first time, but they won't be the first recruit to shit their pants in combat, either.

Haha, point taken (don't have a sister) but I was thinking about the political aspects. And lIke college campuses in America, the military is having a fairly highly publicized problem with sexual harassment and other such things involving young men and women, and a woman dropping trou in front of a group of men (or even somewhat out of sight) will attract attention, even if she is cutting one.
Not to mention the strict cultural mores held for women in the Islamic countries where American servicewomen will be stationed.