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[Petrock123]

Just watched the stream from Flux onwards. I don't have the game yet but...

First off you're really good at the game (sure the players weren't the greatest, but I don't think that the Marie players were completely incompetent, at least). I noticed you were fooling around during some of the matches, when you probably could have ended it earlier.

Also I know I heard Marie's J.C(?) was really good, but it was used so often it was rather funny. You counter hit them with Adachi's anti-air that leads into a combo, a really powerful one IMO, but they still continued to use it. It was funny at one point, after you got hit by it a couple of times, to see you just crouch there and wait for a while until the opponent tried to use the move again, where you counter hit. And this happened more than once.

If any of you played MvC3, the abuse of the move kind of reminds me of Dante's j.S into Hammer. As a nooby Dante player I would spend half the game online super-jumping to j.S -Hammer, repeat. (The other half I would be teleporting while spamming assist).

 

[Uraizen]

I don't know if you watched most of that stream and, not to badmouth team Adachi too badly... but people were doing pretty poorly before I came in. Team Marie was up 7 wins before I came on, and I think there was only one Adachi who got a single win during the event. Then my turn came and I proceeded to defeat every member of Team Marie at least once—including some of their more capable players twice like Sonicfox and one other—without losing.

I saw the entire thing as it was happening from the moment the stream started.

I know you don't play seriously, but I really don't approve of a game plan with this mindset. At least, against competent opponents, that'll result in a loss most of the time. If I were to share an equivalent mindset for how I play, I prioritize the Heat Riser buff asap. 10%+ damage and 10%+ defense is fantastic, and I want it as early as possible. It's all standard for the rest, until I enter Awakening and then I will try to 2C > Magatsu Mandala (whether it hits or not) if the game's at neutral, or just try to combo into Magatsu Mandala, but I don't really make it a priority, since I'll expend the meter on a 75 SP Atom Smasher or a command grab super if I have to. Magatsu Mandala is what I treat as a bonus, if anything.

Yeah, I've only been playing both this and P4A under a month total. I think this one is fun unlike the original. So I still don't know what would be considered strong in this game or a good way to play. I just learned the mechanics, a few BnBs, some setups, and came up with that simple game plan. It's definitely a terrible way to play Adachi because it feels like every match is a 50/50 gamble for me. I never use atom smasher or grab super. I would rather die with 150 meter! But hey, I think that gameplan is fun and I just like watching myself do cool things in some fighters. Getting the unblockable setups/combos going is my fun. That's what it comes down to anyway, right? Just having a little fun with the game. Either way, I appreciate the opinion, but you're talking to a guy who would rather go down in style than getting a win from solid play. That mindset does differ from game to game, though. Losing in BB or 3s will make me salty, lol.

Either way, I'm awful at this game, but I know when something is wrong at least! Just look at the archives, you'll see what I mean. I've read that the sweep link after 5C into 214A oki is ideal, but I almost never saw it. I did see them push Marie to the corner sometimes, so that may be preferred now?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

First off you're really good at the game (sure the players weren't the greatest, but I don't think that the Marie players were completely incompetent, at least). I noticed you were fooling around during some of the matches, when you probably could have ended it earlier.

That's definitely not true. I didn't relent on any of my opponents during that set.

Just having a little fun with the game. Either way, I appreciate the opinion, but you're talking to a guy who would rather go down in style than getting a win from solid play. That mindset does differ from game to game, though. Losing in BB or 3s will make me salty, lol.

Either way, I'm awful at this game, but I know when something is wrong at least! Just look at the archives, you'll see what I mean. I've read that the sweep link after 5C into 214A oki is ideal, but I almost never saw it. I did see them push Marie to the corner sometimes, so that may be preferred now?

Yeah, if it's just about the fun then it's alright. I play all of the Shadows I do for that reason (though always with the mindset that I'm trying to win a match).

5C > sweep > 214A can be countered with a DP between the 5C and the sweep since 5C is -9. Still, it's a good block string which, yeah, shouldn't be ignored.

 

[budpikmin]

I just posted this in the community thread but I think it would be useful to put here as well..

So I went the MCM Comic Con yesterday and Rice Digital (Ultimax euro publisher) were there. They were taking preorders for the Ultimax special edition and while I was talking to the guy I asked him about the dlc. He got really cagey so I pushed for an answer and he told me 'we don't know if we can get the dlc for the euro release'. He then tried to persuade me to pre order with the mystery tshirt and said that the print on it would be the artwork used for Adachi before he fights - rather ridiculous to feature artwork of a character we're not getting no? Talk about salt in the wound.

 

[Uraizen]

5C > sweep > 214A can be countered with a DP between the 5C and the sweep since 5C is -9. Still, it's a good block string which, yeah, shouldn't be ignored.

Oh, no, I meant only on hit.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Oh, no, I meant only on hit.

Ah, if the 5C hits, I definitely prefer to end it with 236AA now so I can IAD j.B or just push them towards the corner, since that's always a better position to be in. 214A is a good way to change it up, though.

 

[Rhapsody]

Oh, no, I meant only on hit.

You sacrifice corner carry and lose a safe jump if you decide to go for gunshot ender. Flux doing 236AA is my preferred combo ender as well. Gunshot ender for me is mainly in the corner or if I want to make it a scary guessing game for them.

Also, been seeing some new Margaret stuff lately. Didn't know she had a safejump and some crazy corner oki.
Also has some nice damage with instant overheads and fuzzy guards.

 

[Uraizen]

You sacrifice corner carry and lose a safe jump if you decide to go for gunshot ender. Flux doing 236AA is my preferred combo ender as well. Gunshot ender for me is mainly in the corner or if I want to make it a scary guessing game for them.

Ouch... I was just using it for command grab mix-ups. I just assume I can eventually frametrap them into a CH 2B and use my persona to send them flying to the corner.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

A random question just popped into my head for anyone who's completed the story mode.

Is there any mention of

Spoiler

Metis

? I completed P3:FES' "The Answer" but I don't remember what happened to her at the end.

 

[Dlent]

A random question just popped into my head for anyone who's completed the story mode.

Is there any mention of

Spoiler

Metis

? I completed P3:FES' "The Answer" but I don't remember what happened to her at the end.

No.

 

[hao chi]

A random question just popped into my head for anyone who's completed the story mode.

Is there any mention of

Spoiler

Metis

? I completed P3:FES' "The Answer" but I don't remember what happened to her at the end.

The Answer spoilers:

Spoiler

She was the physical manifestation of Aigis' emotions that she locked away after The Journey's ending, so they basically just fusion danced at the end and made Aigis whole again.

 

[Petrock123]

That's definitely not true. I didn't relent on any of my opponents during that set.



Yeah, if it's just about the fun then it's alright. I play all of the Shadows I do for that reason (though always with the mindset that I'm trying to win a match).

5C > sweep > 214A can be countered with a DP between the 5C and the sweep since 5C is -9. Still, it's a good block string which, yeah, shouldn't be ignored.

Oh I thought you were just because sometimes it looked like you could have taken the round with just a few hits or a super, but decided not to. Not really sure, as I'm not a competitive player, maybe they were actually safe or perhaps a mistake with input.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Oh I thought you were just because sometimes it looked like you could have taken the round with just a few hits or a super, but decided not to. Not really sure, as I'm not a competitive player, maybe they were actually safe or perhaps a mistake with input.

You'd need to point out those moments, because you might indeed be misreading them. The one time I can remember where I messed up in those archives was when I had an unblockable set-up ready to go after Magatsu Mandala after 214C > 236236B > 2C, but I messed it up because I didn't know what I was doing anymore.

 

[Petrock123]

You'd need to point out those moments, because you might indeed be misreading them. The one time I can remember where I messed up in those archives was when I had an unblockable set-up ready to go after Magatsu Mandala after 214C > 236236B > 2C, but I messed it up because I didn't know what I was doing anymore.

OK yeah, that might be one I remember. You had the opponent raged and shocked and you whiffed 5AA and she got out with DP.

I don't know if it's safe but Marie used her shield super (~1:12:20), and after the hitstun wore off you whiffed a 5A once before cancelling into 5C or something? I don't know if maybe she's positive on that and that was just in case she decided to go in. Little thing, not really important, just not sure what that 5A was for. At the time I posted I though you could have punished her shield with something instead, but now that I thought about it and watched it in more detail I now realize you probably couldn't punish, so forget that.

Another time (56:50?)I think you were kind of close to the opponent in the corner after Izanagi's stomp, and the enemy was almost dead, and you did that 'come at me bro' walk (236A->A?) for pressure after she teched, but it looked like a sweep or EX 236A->B->something after the stomp could have killed? Though I don't know about spacing and hitstun if it works and with awakening+damage scaling if it could have killed. Just that a lot of times after the stomp I see people do those things for extra damage. It also could have just been reaction speed online because it looked like you threw out the 5A to 5C, probably for pressure, and maybe weren't expecting for it to actually hit?

Also I guess it could have worked, but I wasn't sure if you were serious because one time you called ~3 cross slashes(2D?) from full screen in a row (I guess that adds chip and if the enemy isn't responding why not). It's not that it's bad, it's just that when I saw that sequence of events I wasn't sure if you were just trying to annoy them. I suppose that chip is good and it would eventually force the opponent to do something that you could react to/punish. I think in general when watching you used that move quite a bit though, which is understandable considering the damage you deal if the enemy isn't prepared. (Also quite a bit of atom smasher for likely the same reason, and it can lead into combos at certain ranges while also being somewhat more safe for Izanagi)

Dustloop isn't really helping, but sometimes she'd use a super (maybe unblockable? I think it's Shining Arrow? idk at ~51:45) that after a set period of time shot 3 light-projectiles across the screen, and a lot of the times you'd get hit by it. Though when she used the super you would attempt to call Izanagi for the cross slash attack a couple of times and get hit while in the air.

Now that I finished IDEK anymore, I should get the game before saying anything. I can tell you're good, but I don't fully appreciate and understand everything when all I've done was watch videos and never touched it, 'cause it sounds like I'm talking out of my ass. Sorry about that.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Just watched that flux stream...

So much improper j.C abuse from the Maries. Feels like a lot of them are where I was a month ago

I dropped too much in this match, but I did get to ignore a yukari awakening. Any other tips for getting around Yukari zoning? All I've got is double jump j.C over arrows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVVKA5-oPeg&#t=1m40s

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Now that I finished IDEK anymore, I should get the game before saying anything. I can tell you're good, but I don't fully appreciate and understand everything when all I've done was watch videos and never touched it, 'cause it sounds like I'm talking out of my ass. Sorry about that.

Yeah... I'd recommend actually getting the game and playing it before talking too much about what you think you might be inferring from the matches, or at least getting knowledgeable enough on the frame data and combo routes in order to do so, because—no offense—a lot of that is pretty much baseless theorycraft.

One key element that you're not taking into account is that no one has perfect execution at all moments with no lapse in judgement or inputs. Especially not me—coming from the fighting school of recklessness—and especially not online. So, considering that:

1. Marie's 236236A/B pushes the opponent far away and is -17, so punishing it is very difficult. Instinctively, I pressed 5A, but I probably had in mind that it wasn't going to hit. 5C probably wouldn't even have worked because of the 16F startup. A gunshot could probably have hit, but, again, it's not something I had in mind for a punish.

2. Look at the meter. What that was was me hoping that the last hit of 5C would cause me to get 50 SP so I could combo it with 236236A/B, but I was exactly 1 meter short. A 236AA most likely would have done the trick after 5C's last hit but, in the moment, I wanted to make sure that the next hit would kill without risking the possibility of the opponent using a Burst.

3. Not sure what you mean here. I'm not summoning 2Ds just for fun; it's usually to either catch the opponent doing something they shouldn't or catch the opponent off-guard when they punish the Persona as a means to approach them, possibly even getting a CH off a 214AB. I don't really care about the chip from that unless the opponent is in Awakening. But 2D is one of the moves that Adachi players can use very poorly and, while I still need to strike a proper balance since there are times where it leans into overuse, I'm not just blindly spamming it hoping for it to work out somehow. It's all situational, and I tend to use it during pressure most of all.

Atom Smasher wasn't used for the same reason most of the time, since that's just a fantastic reversal option. The EX version can sometimes be used at neutral if the opponent isn't being cautious of it and tries something, but I mostly use it as a reversal.

4. Yeah, that was me not being able to punish Marie's 214214C/D. When that's happening, I want to be off the ground as much as possible so Marie can't confuse me with crazy mix-ups, and I also want it to stop asap so I tried to punish it, unsuccessfully, with 2D 1-2 times. My mind went to 2D mainly because it's the only option I have to stop it while I'm in the air like that without attempting to approach Marie, and also possibly lingering frustration and not being able to stop the super activation from the start since it could be punished with 2D during its start-up.

Just watched that flux stream...

So much improper j.C abuse from the Maries. Feels like a lot of them are where I was a month ago

I dropped too much in this match, but I did get to ignore a yukari awakening. Any other tips for getting around Yukari zoning? All I've got is double jump j.C over arrows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVVKA5-oPeg&#t=1m40s

I don't think you're being patient enough as a means of approach. j.C is a very risky means of approach that you were using quite often there, which wouldn't have been working on a Yukari who would just punish it with 236A consistently instead of doing weird stuff like 2A or AoA. Simply walking, dashing and double jumping with the mindset of consistently blocking when you need to works. Slowly you'll get close to Yukari, at which point you'll be able to do what you need to. Like, imagine you were playing as Akihiko there; without that kind of patience, an approach would be impossible.

But, in the end, it's whatever works and the j.C was working. If it wasn't, you might have adapted to a different means.

Also, just wondering: are you aware that 236236C/D's Empress card will do more damage during rain than using the Aeon card?

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Also, just wondering: are you aware that 236236C/D's Empress card will do more damage during rain than using the Aeon card?

Thanks for the tips, and I am aware, I just havent broken the habit of spamming Aeon yet

I think I'll need to play as Yukari a little to really figure out how her shit works

 

[Mdesilva]

Just block the Feather Arrow! It's got a ton of recovery.

Or you could roll it, even. Just be careful with jumping in, and try to block as you do approach.

 

[The Yo Tornado]

I took a break from P4AU a few weeks ago due to Labrys frustrating the hell out of me. So I spent the last few days learning all of Marie's combos, watching videos and taking notes to get a feel for what to do in neutral. As soon as I feel confident enough to go online I immediately enter a match and without hesitation pick Labrys. I'm beginning to think I have a problem.

 

[Petrock123]

Yeah... I'd recommend actually getting the game and playing it before talking too much about what you think you might be inferring from the matches, or at least getting knowledgeable enough on the frame data and combo routes in order to do so, because—no offense—a lot of that is pretty much baseless theorycraft.

Ha, yeah I realized that after I spent ~1 hour looking over the stream to see what I was talking about and writing that post, before realizing that at the end I had no clue what I was talking about. But I dunno why, it just felt like a waste to delete it? Idk

I guess it's what I have to resort to considering at best the earliest I can get access to the game at Christmas, but are there things similar to noob guides/tutorials on youtube on how to play him? What to do neutral, how to best use his tools, etc. All I can find are things for combos, half of which are generally impractical or hard to actually do when in a game. I find it interesting, but I couldn't find any. And as a scrub in general for fighting games I look at those(mainly back when I played a bit uMvC3 and actually tried to be good but failing miserably). I know in fighting games that it would probably be better if I actually tried learning by myself first in training mode, but last time I tried that when I played a fighting game I basically learned nothing in the couple of hours I spent compared to what a video showed.

 

[Busaiku]

But all one needs to do is mash A without skipping a beat.

This is how bad I am.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

The Answer spoilers:

Spoiler

She was the physical manifestation of Aigis' emotions that she locked away after The Journey's ending, so they basically just fusion danced at the end and made Aigis whole again.

Yeah, I ended up reading the wiki afterwards.

Thanks for the answers regardless.

 

[Lostconfused]

Yeeeshhhh everything Narukami does is so safe, it's infuriating. Trying to punish him is just asking to get blown up with a counter.

 

[Rhapsody]

Yeeeshhhh everything Narukami does is so safe, it's infuriating. Trying to punish him is just asking to get blown up with a counter.

Like what in particular?

 

[R_thanatos]

Question :
Magareth has a move where she will slam down her book on the ground , forcing the opponent to trip , but i can't seem to find the right move combinaison to pull this off ?

How do i do that ?

 

[Rhapsody]

Question :
Magareth has a move where she will slam down her book on the ground , forcing the opponent to trip , but i can't seem to find the right move combinaison to pull this off ?

How do i do that ?

It's her sweep. Crouch and press A+B.

 

[Anne]

Consistent fuzzy oki makes me all warm inside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sFULKWFwJ8&feature=youtu.be

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I kinda figured out a GAM build where AI controlled Adachi can be semi-competent. Level 83:

Thunder Reign = Start with low HP; Auto fill SP (EX)
Dekaja = Opponent will not Awaken
Mind Charge = SP Skills / SP Skill Boosts cost 1/2 SP
Weary Thrust = Opponent starts the round with the same amount of HP as you

He just spams supers like a nut now, and it works. A wonder to watch.

 

[Shouta]

After 2 weeks of not much playing, the rust is strong.

Anyway, looking at the other chars. Ken's worst match is definitely Aigis. Her mobility and pressure is rough to defend against and she has numerous projectiles that can make it difficult to use Koro. She has problems if Ken get started though so it's not a hopeless match-up or anything though.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeeeshhhh everything Narukami does is so safe, it's infuriating. Trying to punish him is just asking to get blown up with a counter.

He's completely safe when he's making you block, but he opens himself up when he tries to go for the mixup. Watch out for his stagger pressure, because nearly all of his normals are delayable. That said, if you respect him too much, you'll eat a grab (which can be devastating if you're near the corner)

Overall, Narukami's a tough opponent to face, but he's not unbeatable. He's just a very good, very safe character, and it's up to you to look for opportunities where you can nail him.

 

[Mdesilva]

Consistent fuzzy oki makes me all warm inside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sFULKWFwJ8&feature=youtu.be

All warm and fuzzy?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Participated in the GameFAQs tourney (results here). Posting it here for anyone interested in watching the archives. Grand finals (at 9m45s) were a bit... peculiar.

Now to look into Xrd a bit more, heh. I feel like there won't be many P4AU events I'll be able to participate in once that drops.

 

[Uraizen]

Participated in the GameFAQs tourney (results here). Posting it here for anyone interested in watching the archives. Grand finals (at 9m45s) were a bit... peculiar.

Now to look into Xrd a bit more, heh. I feel like there won't be many P4AU events I'll be able to participate in once that drops.

I dunno, you always end up going back to your favorite game. Even though I'm not playing BBCP right now

Spoiler

hurry up, 2.0

, I shall always go back to it.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I dunno, you always end up going back to your favorite game. Even though I'm not playing BBCP right now

Spoiler

hurry up, 2.0

, I shall always go back to it.

Yeah, guess I could still dabble with it online randomly after Xrd, but P4AU isn't going to have a 2.0 (at least that we know of) to rejuvenate the community like BBCP's going to get, so who knows if it'll still be too active months from now.

I think I'm really going to like Xrd, so it's not too bad. There still might be some P4AU online events here and there (if I'm going to help in organizing Exciting GAF Air Dashers #2, then P4AU will certainly be one of the featured games), and I guess there's the slight chance of it being an Evo game.

 

[Anne]

Dat attitude.

 

[Lostconfused]

I am not having fun anymore with this game, I am not sure why.

To be fair though, I am not having fun with the other games I regularly play either.

 

[Narroo]

I am not having fun anymore with this game, I am not sure why.

To be fair though, I am not having fun with the other games I regularly play either.

Too many powerful reversals and defensive options?

I'll admit, the reversals in this game are beginning to annoy me.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Too many powerful reversals and defensive options?

I'll admit, the reversals in this game are beginning to annoy me.

Powerful reversals? Like whose? DPs really aren't a problem in this game, except if one doesn't know how to bait them (which then extends to any fighting game with DPs, since they're practically the same). DP > Super cancels I could understand, but definitely not the reversals themselves.

And too many defensive options is crazy. The game doesn't have barriers like GG or BB, or push blocks (minus Rise) like Marvel. Rolls are risky. Guard cancels, roll cancels and Bursts are normal.

 

[Anne]

Too many powerful reversals and defensive options?

I'll admit, the reversals in this game are beginning to annoy me.

What's really funny is that at a high level safejumps and safe oki/pressure are so prevelant that most reversals carry a high amount of risk. you only really see them in situations where there has to be a guess, or if they have a lot of reward or can be made safe. Certain ones (looking at the Shos here >_>) are actually just super strong and dumb, but most are super manageable.

 

[Lostconfused]

I guess arguments about how fair and balanced this game is won't ever end.

I was just saying that personally I am not having fun, it's probably because I don't have anyone to play with. Grinding matches online gets really boring, especially when you just lose consistently and it just becomes a downward spiral of negative emotions.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Well, I don't think anyone ever argued FOR the balance in this game lol.

I think there is a consensus that the higher level the play is, the weaker and riskier the B+D reversals are.

 

[Rhapsody]

Honestly I'm not a fan of 2 button reversals when attempting stagger pressure, but yes, they definitely are crazy risky at high level play since that can get you killed. I disagree about them being weaker at high level play though. On a game that has a scary knockdown game, counter hit DPs can lead to a big turnaround.

 

[Mdesilva]

One idea someone told me that would make this game's reversals handled better would be if the input for Furious Action became 6+B+D so you can't just mash it in blockstun for a year. It would be pretty cool if that happened

 

[Rhapsody]

One idea someone told me that would make this game's reversals handled better would be if the input for Furious Action became 6+B+D so you can't just mash it in blockstun for a year. It would be pretty cool if that happened

That does sound like a pretty nice idea if they did do that. Keeps it simple still but with less abuse.

I've actually been practicing this game again after finishing up more school stuff. Going through my old subs from the first game and adjusting to them. As of right now, I'm putting time into Aigis and Shadow Aigis (for fun). Out of all the ArcSys games, I really think this is the game where I want save state options for training mode. Would be a godsend when I'm learning AoA stuff.

 

[Lostconfused]

I probably should accept my true self and actually try to learn Narukami, lol.

It's not like the character can't go ham when you want to from the looks of things.

 

[84X]

Is this the place to ask if anyone wants to play a few matches? (I don't mean right now just whenever)

My friends list consists mostly of people who haven't been on psn in two years, and ranked matches aren't really helping me get better.

 

[Lostconfused]

Sure you can ask here even though the thread doesn't seem to be all that active. There is also fighting games weekly thread that people post in but I don't think a lot of them are into P4. You can also check out dustloop because I think they have dedicated threads for matchmaking.

 

[hao chi]

One idea someone told me that would make this game's reversals handled better would be if the input for Furious Action became 6+B+D so you can't just mash it in blockstun for a year. It would be pretty cool if that happened

*cough*

 

[Mdesilva]

*cough*

it was a great idea and you totally deserve credit for it, yes

 

[Nyoro SF]

Not a great idea, easy example; many characters rely on reaction B+D to counter Minazuki's teleport, now they have to guess which way to hold the joystick.

Offense is already ridiculously strong in this game. Burst-safe, DP-safe offense. The fact that we're talking about nerfing a defensive option is shocking to me.