the way he is portrayed in battle is pretty cool, super jovial and happy, but sometimes just sounds oddly angry for seemingly no reason. The characterization of him simultaneously having this rage but also this big goofy happy pose when he does an all out attack was, I think, pretty well done.
It just didn't actually really gel particularly well with the way he was portrayed throughout the rest of the game, for me at least. I would have been into fully exploring his character if it had been consistently like it was then.
The convenient "trust us with your life..even though no one could get things right prior to your engagement. And... I need you to turn yourself into the police in order to prove out an unsubstantiated reality to validate a confession that we believe is absolute! And by the way, I can't guarantee your your freedom (you may be ruined for the rest of you like for saving the planet.)" Kind of rubs me the wrong way..
If there is a Persona 5 Crimson or Golden or whatever, I wanna have the option to say much worse things to her. Actually, let me say worse things to everyone. I didn't care for most of the characters, so the option to just completely annihilate them during conversations would make the story moments much more satisfying to me lol
Yeah, saying the adults are incompetent in this game is weird when the increased focus on adults in the confidants is extremely welcome compared to 3 and 4. They don't seem incompetent, just jaded and beaten down by their problems. Sae seems no different than say, Dojima.
I've got plenty of complaints about the writing in this game, but that one's a weird one.
I'm pretty sure Akechi is supposed to come across as an arrogant little git but also raising a potentially valid point about the Thieves. He's always quiet clear that he doesn't think what they've done is bad, just that they are dangerous.
Team Akechi here! Thanks to accidentally spoiling myself by flipping through the JP artbook, (mid game spoilers)
I knew he was going to join the party, and that's when I started to suspect the hell out of him. I still kept him in my party as long as I could though
Like others have said, he's a great foil to Joker and seemed like the only one thinking about things on the same level. In an alternate universe, the two of them would have made an excellent team.
Adults being incompetent and useless is the entire theme of Persona 5. I mean, it's obviously over the top and heavy handed, but it is what it is. You can disagree with the message if you don't think it represents an accurate reading of the world, but it's not a flaw of the story. Adults are the ones who are supposed to be responsible, well informed, educated, and doing their best to make the world a better place. It should not have to fall to children with childish fantasies to make things better. But if growing up and entering "society" just means being part of a problem instead of doing anything worthwhile to change the problems you see, what good is being an adult. Worthless. Useless. Irresponsible. Scum.
Persona 5 is an angry as fuck game because modern society, and in this particular context modern Japanese society, is so apathetic about social issues that it's hard not to see where the game is coming from. Sure it's a pure juvenile power fantasy about using superpowers to fix the problems of society by force. It's a simplistic and childish solution to a complex problem. But why is the world being a fucking shitty place where bad people prosper and can fool the masses into supporting them a complex problem to begin with. It's because adults who should know better and should give a fuck, don't.
Adults being incompetent and useless is the entire theme of Persona 5. I mean, it's obviously over the top and heavy handed, but it is what it is. You can disagree with the message if you don't think it represents an accurate reading of the world, but it's not a flaw of the story. Adults are the ones who are supposed to be responsible, well informed, educated, and doing their best to make the world a better place. It should not have to fall to children with childish fantasies to make things better. But if growing up and entering "society" just means being part of a problem instead of doing anything worthwhile to change the problems you see, what good is being an adult. Worthless. Useless. Irresponsible. Scum.
Persona 5 is an angry as fuck game because modern society, and in this particular context modern Japanese society, is so apathetic about social issues that it's hard not to see where the game is coming from. Sure it's a pure juvenile power fantasy about using superpowers to fix the problems of society by force. It's a simplistic and childish solution to a complex problem. But why is the world being a fucking shitty place where bad people prosper and can fool the masses into supporting them a complex problem to begin with. It's because adults who should know better and should give a fuck, don't.
I mostly agree but I think the judgement on adults generally is slightly different , in that it's not uselessness through incompetence but through apathy. The adults are generally pretty competent at what they do* (not knowing that the Persona world is as Supernatural as the SMT one is hardly a flaw of competence when that's​ both hard to discover and actively hidden by most of those who do know). I think that's kind of necessary because apathy is something that can be overcome End Game Spoilers
and the game, like P4 is ultimately positive.
*Some are corrupt or reprehensible but working a corrupt system requires a kind of competence. Palace 6
Sae's palace is that she thinks the justice system is a rigged game (insert joke about why that's a distortion here).
I just finished up my second playthrough. 112 hours on the first (English dub) and 88 hours on the second (Japanese).
Should have been the platinum run, but somewhere in the midst of my phone is an unanswered text from Mishima ( the one where you work at the bar and get a book in return). Sucks that there's no way to start the request once your phone's removed it.
So I've still got to clear the Request trophy, read all the books, fishing and home run for the platinum. Though thankfully I finally nailed the horrible combo on Power Intuition.
Team Akechi here! Thanks to accidentally spoiling myself by flipping through the JP artbook, (mid game spoilers)
I knew he was going to join the party, and that's when I started to suspect the hell out of him. I still kept him in my party as long as I could though
Like others have said, he's a great foil to Joker and seemed like the only one thinking about things on the same level. In an alternate universe, the two of them would have made an excellent team.
Adults being incompetent and useless is the entire theme of Persona 5. I mean, it's obviously over the top and heavy handed, but it is what it is. You can disagree with the message if you don't think it represents an accurate reading of the world, but it's not a flaw of the story. Adults are the ones who are supposed to be responsible, well informed, educated, and doing their best to make the world a better place. It should not have to fall to children with childish fantasies to make things better. But if growing up and entering "society" just means being part of a problem instead of doing anything worthwhile to change the problems you see, what good is being an adult. Worthless. Useless. Irresponsible. Scum.
Persona 5 is an angry as fuck game because modern society, and in this particular context modern Japanese society, is so apathetic about social issues that it's hard not to see where the game is coming from. Sure it's a pure juvenile power fantasy about using superpowers to fix the problems of society by force. It's a simplistic and childish solution to a complex problem. But why is the world being a fucking shitty place where bad people prosper and can fool the masses into supporting them a complex problem to begin with. It's because adults who should know better and should give a fuck, don't.
To be useful ? No. To get the ridiculous pleasure of instant wiping entire encounters of dark resistant monsters ? Yes. It gets too close to a 100% kill rate on neutrals.
Its the same with Samsara and Hama Boost but you have to get that one on yourself.
No, the adults in this game are actually pretty competent. Let's break it down:
Confidants for the most part, are self-sufficient. Yeah, they get a little push from the protagonist from to time, but they come to conclusions about bettering their lives on their own. And they go about fixing things on their own. The exception is when they're literally stuck in an impossible situation, which is where the Phantom Thieves help them out, and even then, the're proactive about wrapping things up on their own. Also Tora is a fucking baller.
On the antagonist side, you have *spoilers*
Shido who manipulates literally everyone for his own success, his various lackeys who hold powerful positions in society, and the other palace owners who fucked over tons of people to get ahead in life. None of these people are incompetent.
*How you got "incompetent" from Sae is beyond me. She's like, extremely competent during the 2nd half of the game.
It's such a large contrast from P4 and its hilariously inept adults. A far cry from "I got upstaged by a 15 year old and i'm going to drink and be sad about also i'm too stubborn to accept supernatural phenomena just because."
Also the less said about the adults in P3, the better.
About confidants. They are all (at least the 16 confidants that I did) literally stuck in their lives until you show up. If they they didn't have any help from you they wouldn't get anywhere. In some cases like
Kawakami
they would've probably end-up on the street if Joker had not show up.
As for that end game villain, he was extremely dependent on
mental shutdowns. In fact he wouldn't get to the place that he was if it wasn't for those accident and we know who he had to thank for doing all of those stuff. You might say that he manipulated Akechi into doing things for him, but the way I see it, he just got lucky, cause Akechi had his own reasons.
And as far as
Sae
is concerned, she couldn't do a thing without the Phantoms.
Even after saving the world and getting a confession out of Shido, Joker had to endure 2 months of prison, so that she could actually build a case against him. And even then she didn't do jack for Joker's freedom, cause even the witness was found and brought forward by Phantoms themselves.
I get that the entire theme of Persona 5 was about young people going against society, but when the game tries to redeem the adults at the end, it just falls flat. Cause right up until the very end, they were showing how useless or shitty all of the adults were.
in Persona 4 was a much better antagonist in my opinion compared to
Akechi. Also just noticed that their last names sounds very similar.
Since the moment he was introduced in Persona 5 I disliked him. I'm not sure if that was intentional or not but being that he is the foil to the protagonist it makes the MC seem like an idiot most of the time.
I just found out you can do a 'perfect' playthrough on your first game minus the last Persona and secret boss. Did not think that was possible. There's no need to do two full runs, damn.
About confidants. They are all (at least the 16 confidants that I did) literally stuck in their lives until you show up. If they they didn't have any help from you they wouldn't get anywhere. In some cases like
Kawakami
they would've probably end-up on the street if Joker had not show up.
Welcome to social links in general. You meet someone ,you hear them out, and then help them change their lives. The operative word here is help, because the Confidants ultimately help themselves. I mean let's take Tae Takemi for example.
You remove her main obstacle in life and then what? Joker assists with the clinical trials but she's the one who is able to develop the life-changing medicine in the end. Another example is Chihaya, who yet again handles everything in her Confidant after the person screwing her over is taken down. Kawakami's more of an exception, and even then I'd never call her "incompetent" considering she was able to deal with being extorted for so long.
Saying that the Confidants are "incompetent" because they need your help overcoming a (literally impossible) obstacle is hilariously myopic. I mean following that logic, pretty much every social link character ever is useless on their own. There's a reason why most of the Confidants in this game are with adults, and it's precisely to avoid falling into the trap of "all adults are shitty."
As for that end game villain, he was extremely dependent on
mental shutdowns. In fact he wouldn't get to the place that he was if it wasn't for those accident and we know who he had to thank for doing all of those stuff. You might say that he manipulated Akechi into doing things for him, but the way I see it, he just got lucky, cause Akechi had his own reasons.
Do you think engineering a series of assassinations to further someone's agenda is simple? And what about manipulating the Phantom Thieves into taking the fall for Okumura, and then using that event to blame them for the psychotic breakdowns? There's no question here; Shido is one of the most competent characters in the game, period. You can't conceivably argue that he isn't.
And as far as
Sae
is concerned, she couldn't do a thing without the Phantoms.
Even after saving the world and getting a confession out of Shido, Joker had to endure 2 months of prison, so that she could actually build a case against him. And even then she didn't do jack for Joker, cause the witness was found and brought forward by Phantoms themselves.
Yes, because Sae is a normal person without superpowers. She still
helps save the Phantom Thieves by trusting in Joker's story and she still assembles the case against Shido. All of that takes work and effort. Like Jesus man, did you just ignore half of the epilogue?
Welcome to social links in general. You meet someone ,you hear them out, and then help them change their lives. The operative word here is help, because the Confidants ultimately help themselves. I mean let's take Tae Takemi for example.
You remove her main obstacle in life and then what? Joker assists with the clinical trials but she's the one who is able to develop the life-changing medicine in the end. Another example is Chihaya, who yet again handles everything in her Confidant after the person screwing her over is taken down. Kawakami's more of an exception, and even then I'd never call her "incompetent" considering she was able to deal with being extorted for so long.
Saying that the Confidants are "incompetent" because they need your help overcoming a (literally impossible) obstacle is hilariously myopic. I mean following that logic, pretty much every social link character ever is useless on their own. There's a reason why most of the Confidants in this game are with adults, and it's precisely to avoid falling into the trap of "all adults are shitty."
Those aren't impossible situations. As adults a lot of us are put into similar situation in real life. Your boss breathing down on your neck or other well known people in your field wanting to crush you, are not exclusive situations that you encounter in video games.
Yet you don't find people who are in these situations, getting miraculous help from some teenagers. They have to figure out a way to succeed in what they are doing despite having to deal with these stuff. That's why the people who manage to do that are competent.
It's a game, you have to help. I get it. But that just results in those characters being very dependent on you.
Do you think engineering a series of assassinations to further someone's agenda is simple? And what about manipulating the Phantom Thieves into taking the fall for Okumura, and then using that event to blame them for the psychotic breakdowns? There's no question here; Shido is one of the most competent characters in the game, period. You can't conceivably argue that he isn't.
Yes, because Sae is a normal person without superpowers. She still
helps save the Phantom Thieves by trusting in Joker's story and she still assembles the case against Shido. Like Jesus man, did you just ignore half of the ending?
Trusting someone and letting them do their thing those not make you competent. Also,
she built the case with extreme help from Phantoms. They gave Shido to her on a silver platter and then changed the hearts of entire society so they would back her on building a case against Shido, yet she still couldn't do anything. Joker had to put his life on the line, because of how incompetent she was. And even then, the Phantoms had to help her yet again so she could actually do anything for Joker.
So I'm standing in front of the entrance to the final boss of the final dungeon. After I kill it, how much longer do I have to finish the game if you take into consideration I'm not going for a plat or anything like that?
Those aren't impossible situations. As adults a lot of us are put into similar situation in real life. Your boss breathing down on your neck or other well known people in your field wanting to crush you, are not exclusive situations that you encounter in video games.
Yet you don't find people who are in these situations, getting miraculous help from some teenagers. They have to figure out a way to succeed in what they are doing despite having to deal with these stuff. That's why the people who manage to do that are competent.
It's a game, you have to help. I get it. But that just results in those characters being very dependent on you.
And all of those wouldn't be possible without him being heavily dependent to
Akechi.
Trusting someone and letting them do their thing those not make you competent. Also,
she built the case with extreme help from Phantoms. They gave Shido to her on a silver platter and then changed the hearts of entire society so they would back her on building a case against Shido, yet she still couldn't do anything. Joker had to put his life on the line, because of how incompetent she was. And even then, the Phantoms had to help her yet again so she could actually do anything for Joker.
Was there ever a discussion on if we could work out why the game was delayed? Wouldn't be surprised if it was for pure polish, or rejigging things, like Hifumi
being a party member
. Perhaps there was scope to do more at all the locations?
So I'm standing in front of the entrance to the final boss of the final dungeon. After I kill it, how much longer do I have to finish the game if you take into consideration I'm not going for a plat or anything like that?
"Oh no Joker still gets a shitty resolution despite saving the world!" felt out of nowhere and very poorly handled and rushed.
It was almost cartoony in how tragic it was, which made it obvious that the writers probably forgot to convey a specific message in the rest of the story, and that was "you can change the world and fight the system without superpowers"
, and honestly I appreciate what they tried to do but it simply felt shoehorned at that point and dragged the ending for too long... Hell, it's probably what made the ending so whatever to me.
P3 and 4 took their time with their endings too to convey their messages too, sure,
but not like 5. They prolonged it way too much.
So I'm standing in front of the entrance to the final boss of the final dungeon. After I kill it, how much longer do I have to finish the game if you take into consideration I'm not going for a plat or anything like that?
The layout of Palace 5 makes you want to overextend without saving. Just lost 40 minutes of game time thanks to a powerful deathbound attack that happened to wipe out MC in particular...
Did 9 Mementos requests today, that was quite a boring task. By the end of it I had enough of it and it made me appreciate so much that the palaces are handcrafted to match the shadows rather than randomly generated as in P4. Random dungeons get old really fast.
I started Fortune today, I'm prioritising her for the bonus.
Everything about Palace 4 is perfect, in my opinion. It's not too long, has a great story that takes the best of P3 and P4, it looks beautiful, and has some of the best music in the game. It's definitely a high mark in the game.
So far, I've genuinely loved all the palaces aside from 5 and 7, which are both a little drab and long. 7 isn't even really that bad and the idea is awesome, it's just that basing your dungeon on
The Diet Building
actually kind of makes it look a little bland in comparison to previous dungeons.
Those aren't impossible situations. As adults a lot of us are put into similar situation in real life. You are boss breathing down on your neck or other well known people in your field wanting to crush you, are not exclusive situations that you encounter in video games.
Yet you don't find people who are in these situations, getting miraculous help from some teenagers. They have to figure out a way to succeed in what they are doing despite having to deal with these stuff. That's why the people who manage to do that are competent.
It's a game, you have to help. I get it. But that just results in those characters being very dependent on you.
These are pretty extreme situations and not something most people tend to experience in daily life. I mean come on, the various Confidants have also lost their place in society... it's literally the point of commonality shared with every Confidant character. Your breakdowns don't paint an accurate picture at all. Also, explain to me how one would get out of:
Literally extorted for money forever or risk losing their job and having their life effectively ruined (Kawakami).
Being forced to work for a pyramid scheme because you owe your con-artist employer. (Chihaya)
Getting literally fucking perjured for an accidental death, and having your reputation destroyed. (Tae)
Overcome an impossible workload and being forced to quit an Investigation (Ohya)
These aren't things you just "work out on your own." And you're still ignoring the fact that the Confidants take care of everything on their own after the obstacles are gone. It's completely idealistic and total wish fulfillment, but it's a pretty typical case of "helping someone help themselves." And I haven't even talked about Sojiro and Tora, who are pretty fantastic.
And all of those wouldn't be possible without him being heavily dependent to
You're completely missing the forest of the trees. It's like you think any average Joe could do what
Shido did with Akechi at his side. The game literally beats it over your head via the shitty exposition scene; Shido is outright responsible for coming up with the plan itself, and it took a lot of planning and hard work for him to pull it off.
Trusting someone and letting them do their thing those not make you competent. Also,
she built the case with extreme help from Phantoms. They gave Shido to her on a silver platter and then changed the hearts of entire society so they would back her on building a case against Shido, yet she still couldn't do anything. Joker had to put his life on the line, because of how incompetent she was. And even then, the Phantoms had to help her yet again so she could actually do anything for Joker.
for assembling a case against Anime Donald Trump and being forced to rely on Joker as a witness because literally nobody else could testify, while also operating in the incredibly rigged Criminal Justice system, and still being the one responsible for convicting Shido in the end. My brain is trying to wrap itself around how someone like that could be "extremely incompetent" and it's just not possible.
Anubis drops them in Mementos. I think they're in the latter half of the Akzeriuth block (if not it'll be which ever block opened up after you do dungeon 4)?
No, but I do realize that we are living in very different worlds.
You know what's a impossible situation in my world? Going to defend your innocent client and then ending up in a cell right next to them, because you were defending your client too well. And then dying two years later in that prison and being dumped in a nameless grave. And that's just a very real yet ordinary news in my world.
So sorry, but I don't think the confidants in Persona 5 are stuck in impossible situations that need miracles.
I think people downplay Normal difficulty. If you don't get an ambush (like choosing the wrong dialogue option in Palace 5) or go up against an enemy with no resistances and a party wide crit move then you can get screwed easily.
I think people downplay Normal difficulty. If you don't get an ambush (like choosing the wrong dialogue option in Palace 5) or go up against an enemy with no resistances and a party wide crit move then you can get screwed easily.
I changed difficulty to easy at some point to grind lvl and I was almost wiped by some random enemy who ambushed me. The boss of Palace 4 almost killed my whole party as well on easy. Balancing on the game is kinda all over the place.
But since I made Kaguya and Izanami Picaro I'm pretty much immortal. It doesn't bother me since I'm not one who likes difficult games and I appreciate Null Phys since it annoys me that MC can't die otherwise it's game over.
I think people downplay Normal difficulty. If you don't get an ambush (like choosing the wrong dialogue option in Palace 5) or go up against an enemy with no resistances and a party wide crit move then you can get screwed easily.
It's not an instant loss by any means, you just gotta work harder when it happens and sacrifice more resources. I got ambushed plenty of times on hard and my instant reaction is always "Oh well this is game over" but most of the time I could pull through.
