lovely ladies
Member
Oh oops my fault, yeah I meant tower.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona 5 |OT2| Someone must have been helping you go to bed early. Talk!
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
Oh oops my fault, yeah I meant tower.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I thought
i would hate him at first as well, but he's actually a really nice kid yet. There's nothing over elaborate about his S-Link, yet he's still in my Top 5.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
doesn't safe make it so you lose nothing from dying??
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Ninja Santa is cracking me up
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
If only his English VA is not god-awful.
Like, is it really that much trouble to cast a real kid to voice a kid character? His voice seem so alarmingly like an adult trying his best but failing miserably to mimic a kid's voice.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Me neither, I love SMT/Persona combat. Been playing mostly on normal and moving up, and down. Status buffs, debuffs, and other effects matter even more, especially with the new 'Technical' mechanic. Merciless is amazing, IMO. Especially when you fight enemies with no weaknesses, LOL. Fast paced fun for me.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Pretty sure that "tired" in just low SP.
Edit. Beaten like the protag if he doesn't go to sleep
So then unlike P3, there is no detrimental effect to doing the Palace/Mementos two days in a row?
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Being 20 levels higher than enemies in Palace
LULZ
7.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
If Death Note, and Code Geass combined to make a video game it would be this.
You know you went on a fantastic Persona adventure when you're left with that heavy "empty" feeling when the credits roll.
You know you went on a fantastic Persona adventure when you're left with that heavy "empty" feeling when the credits roll.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Nah.
Iva Demilcol
Member
Yep, there was this guy complaining he lost 5 hours of progress because the main character died in one fight and I was thinking how easily you can find a safe room within 20 minutes from each other. It's as if we've played 2 totally different games.
I usually think it's pretty insulting when someone claims you're playing a game wrong, but cases like these really make me feel like telling people they're playing the game wrong.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
If there is I didn't notice it when I did it lol ^^
Persona 3 let you replenish HP and SP at the entrance of the Tartarus, in exchange you party member got tired. The limitation in P4 and P5 is your SP running out.
Was there any punishment in P3 for finishing a Tartarus segment before the full moon?
TimeEffect
Member
Thanks for the explanation. Let me explain It a little better:
The combat feels like a checklist if I know my enemy's weakness, which seems to be obvious unless its a boss fight.
I think maybe I haven't played too far in. Just beat the first palace, so maybe it changes.
But my 3 supporting characters have a single elemental move that is either effective or not.
Same with the main character, despite his ability to switch.
Everybody can heal.
It's like if Im playing Pokemon with different types, yet those types just have one move that either is useful for the battle or not.
If the attack is the hard counter (super effective), I knock out the enemy to do a follow up attack, which I can spam thanks to the 1 More system. The enemy doesn't really get a chance to attack back if I know their weakness. It makes the battles feel like a step by step sort of thing.
This is all if I know the weakness, and at a certain point in Palace 1, Ive seen all the enemies and know their weakness to do just this.
It's like, they don't ever have a chance to do their own moves because if I get to attack first, I can keep chaining attacks.
I do like that some moves take HP. I guess I was hoping there was a risk involving using attacks that use SP or HP, but it feels like all I really need to do is get them down with the persona attack.
Let me know if thats way off or not
The combat feels like a checklist if I know my enemy's weakness, which seems to be obvious unless its a boss fight.
I think maybe I haven't played too far in. Just beat the first palace, so maybe it changes.
But my 3 supporting characters have a single elemental move that is either effective or not.
Same with the main character, despite his ability to switch.
Everybody can heal.
It's like if Im playing Pokemon with different types, yet those types just have one move that either is useful for the battle or not.
If the attack is the hard counter (super effective), I knock out the enemy to do a follow up attack, which I can spam thanks to the 1 More system. The enemy doesn't really get a chance to attack back if I know their weakness. It makes the battles feel like a step by step sort of thing.
This is all if I know the weakness, and at a certain point in Palace 1, Ive seen all the enemies and know their weakness to do just this.
It's like, they don't ever have a chance to do their own moves because if I get to attack first, I can keep chaining attacks.
I do like that some moves take HP. I guess I was hoping there was a risk involving using attacks that use SP or HP, but it feels like all I really need to do is get them down with the persona attack.
Let me know if thats way off or not
Awesome, so then where can I get the SP recovery items?
You can't buy it at store. But if you do coffee man's social link you are able to make sp items, the further you get with his social link the better sp item you can make. It does waste a day or night making one. If you do the teachers social link up to a certain point, she will make you the sp item(coffee/curry) without wasting time. You might also get them from enemies, chests, and sometimes at vending machines randomly.
Hiero has been the most satisfying S Link so for sure imo.
Augemitbutter
Member
i don't what's so special about palace 5. i was just happy that the game let me play. it's not much different compared to the other dungeons. 2 minor mechanics but who cares.
There are auto-recovery items for a relatively high price at Death arcana once you get rank 5. They get a 50% discount at rank 7.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Upgrade Death to 7 and fork up 200 grand to get your main party members SP Adhesive 3 that will restore 7 SP per turn for them, and you really don't need to worry about SP restorative items ever again even to the end-game, especially if you are playing smartly with Baton Passing and Defending and as such.
The MC can even stack that accessory with Invigorate Skills that restore SP per turn or any other SP restorative skills like Heat Up (5% SP/HP recovery per turn when Ambushing enemies)
Sorry for the hostility. It's kinda hard to sum it all up in a single post because there's still a lot of mechanics that haven't been forced on you yet or introduced at all, but basically the combat is more like a quick race to the finish than a fair 1 on 1 battle.
Battles are fast and the game wants you to always start with an ambush. The first palace is simple with its encounters because every enemy has a clear weakness, but then the game mixes things up with its encounter design and introduces stuff like reflect skills, debuffing your party while enemies buff themselves, insta-kill moves, ailments, etc that you'll need to learn to deal with quickly and efficiently (so you don't lose too much SP in a single battle) in order to prevent the enemy of having turns if possible.
Basically battles are like micro puzzles that you have to clear as efficiently as possible in a row between save points, and wether you make it to the next depends entirely of how creative and adaptative you are and how well you managed your party of personas, covering as many elements and ressistances as possible. Beginners will think, for example, that insta-kills are cheap, but not only are you expected to kill enemies before they can use them, but you can buff your agility to avoid them and they're not heavily introduced in random encounters until the point where you can create personas that null said insta-kill moves' elements.
Then there's stuff like the baton pass system that ensures that the next moves hits harder or recovers more HP, this encourages that you think efficiently so that you can clear battles as fast as possible and taking as few hits as possible. There's ailments too which are your most reliable tool against enemies with no weaknesses, and you'll notice that some ailments grant you extra damage if you hit afflicted enemies with specific kinds of attacks.
You also have to take into account that the dungeon traversal and SP management is part of the gameplay too and is heavily tied to how efficient you're into battles... anyway this is getting long, but that's the gist of it.
Same here, I know a lot of people are in for the story but favorite thing about these games is the dungeon crawling and especially the combat. It's amazing how Megaten manages to be both really FAST and have enough depth to not feel like you're just pressing X to win, and I'm glad that P5 is the first Persona game that feels as deep as other modern Megaten games, I'm in love with its gameplay.
I seriously don't mean that the game is above criticism, people are allowed to dislike it, but the combat definitely isn't shallow.
Crimsonlink
Member
If you wanna cheap out, just get 2 SP restoration and switch after each battle for the party members low on SP. Though MC should always have one on hand since he needs to survive so 3 is recommended.
Ryuji and Yusuke don't really need SP if you wanna just smash everyone with PHY attacks if you keep either in your party or both even.
Ryuji and Yusuke don't really need SP if you wanna just smash everyone with PHY attacks if you keep either in your party or both even.
I have the SP a restore accessories on all party members including reserve because why not haha. It was annoying having to change them out every time I switched members, especially once you level up the Star Arcana.
I bought it yesterday. Heavy almighty damage with a chance of insta kill :O
Crimsonlink
Member
Well if you can spare the cash then more power to you man.
BassForever
Member
Persona fans get way too touchy when you point out how janky the combat is. Yes all jrpgs have rng elements, but persona games for general enemy combat play like a game of two glass vases fighting. Whoever lands the first blow 90% of the time shatters their opponent and wins. The only time the combat and fusion depth really matters is the boss fights which are the highlight of the games. The persona franchise could easily drop the rpg combat and just be a visual novel and the element most people actually care about would remain intact.
Iva Demilcol
Member
So, you're complaining that if you attack an enemy you damage it?
I know, I know, it was a bad joke.
Knowing the weakness of an enemy is important so you can exploit it and chain attacks and all but chances are that if you do just that you run out of SP soon, and that's not fun (imo). There are many aspects to consider here: You can chain as many attacks as you want but it also applies to the enemies. Your characters have elemental weaknesses too. There are tons of ailments, buffs and debuffs too and enemies use them constantly, there are other types of attacks as well, and you can even make "combos". Of course, after the first Palace you haven't seen all.
Many people come here angry after they've been beaten by an enemy and lost hours of progress... chances are that that repetitive and easy game can kick your ass because you started to feel cocky. It's pretty usual that you get to fight enemies that buff and heal each other, they even protect themselves against their elemental weaknesses; others hit like trucks. The combat system isn't perfect at all but it certainly isn't as simple as some people claim here.
Nope. It's one thing to criticize the combat, it's a whole other thing to actually believe the Persona games could drop its combat and dungeon crawling, and expect most fans to be happy about it. What makes the modern series compelling for most is how each of the game's elements complement each other, and Hashino understands that.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I guess the problem for some is that the AOA is just way too effective on easy and normal. (That and the first dungeon didn't introduce enough mechanics like the baton pass on all characters which would increase depth from the beginning.) However, on hard and merciless AOA isn't as useful as the Baton Pass and using Status effects/ailments. And you have to think about defending and countering after a particulary hard attack. There are improvements to be made, but the poster in question should get further in or raise the difficulty. Personally, even with flaws, this is one of the best SMT/Persona combat systems include spinoffs like DS and #TMS.
None.
Just have to say your opening sentence here is the worst. People disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're just touchy fanboys.
Also, you're wrong.
People love floating around this idea that ___ game would be better without the gameplay and I don't think I've ever agreed with it.
Yeah no. I would never buy it if so, and many if not most of us actually like/love the combat.
Fusing personas is also huge part of the fun
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Nope.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah, 5 is a step down combat wise with the whole of SMT in mind, though a step up from P4G. I think the core system is fine, it's just that while it's cool that they've tied confidants to skills that makes things easier for your dungeon crawling, they've added too much to make it too easy.
Also physical is still kinda broken.
Also physical is still kinda broken.
Nice. Thanks.
TimeEffect
Member
Thanks. I dont hate the combat at all, it just feels very different than what Im used to and I expected a more traditional approach
Here's what I liked though:
SP recovery is rare so far, so Im trying to balance dungeon crawling with how mamy days I have left and going back and forth balancing returning home and finishing the dungeon
I like making runs and having to return back
I know Im early so Im thinking I will unlock more features. I enjoyed the boss battle
Here's what I liked though:
SP recovery is rare so far, so Im trying to balance dungeon crawling with how mamy days I have left and going back and forth balancing returning home and finishing the dungeon
I like making runs and having to return back
I know Im early so Im thinking I will unlock more features. I enjoyed the boss battle
That certainly isn't true. I think what hooks people on this game is that everything you do somehow contributes to the growth of your character. Story and social links can contribute to the battles, battles contribute in making money which you can use to give gifts to further your social links and so on.
The thing about the Press Turn system (present in most SMT games as far as I know) is that it prioritizes steamrolling your enemy. You will rapidly kill any weak enemy or be rapidly killed if you're careless. The boss battles show more depth because they are longer so you need to adjust your strategies mid-battle instead of before it.
I can see that, I was watching my girlfriend play on normal the other day and noticed you hit much harder in general, so naturally AOAs can finish most battles instantly. And you're right, they're like a death sentence on Hard and Merciless unless the enemy party has only 2/5 HP left, otherwise baton passing is always a better option, sometimes even de/buffing or healing.
I'd happily encourage most people who care about the gameplay to try playing on Hard, but stuff like that often comes off as stealth bragging or elitism so I just do my thing haha.
I think some unbalanced social link skills aside, the game balance on hard is fantastic and the gameplay as a whole is indeed one of Megaten's finest, up there with Nocturne, Devil Survivor and the rest.