-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT2| Burn My Thread
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
- Status
Also, Matsuno is amazing. Dude's a genius.
Despite not having played P1 or P2, I still generally agree with you that it's the characters that sell Persona, not the story.
Still though, with the testimonials we've seen posted with regards to P2's plot, it's not surprising to see some people are underwhelmed. When people laud something that's the risk they create: that those who experience it later will expect too much.
Fair warning about Xenogears. It is the only video game you will ever play that could have a story best described as an "epic"; there are only a few games (Legacy of Kain series) that even come close. I mean this in both a good and a bad way. You will not fully understand the story after one playthrough.
Their writing has improved significantly over the years. P1's writing is pretty mediocre all things considered. The midpoints of P2/3/4 are also rather weak compared to the strong beginning and ending those games have.
That's exactly what I'm attributing all this ridiculousness too.
It makes sense, given that all the crazy lady's stuff about alien nazis was on TV a little before hand.
I kinda enjoy that. Reading about it after and putting it together can be enjoyable in it's own way. 999/VLR took a bit to piece together too, although that was a whole lot of "Ohhhhhhh I knew that"
Nah, it's more like when people nitpick about silly shit like a robot or bear character, when none of the Persona games have had a super serial story.
This is on a whole other scale than 999/VLR. They don't have a storyline (Yes, storyline) spanning 15,000 years with full history.
plot =/= story. (For me. For others, it's semantics)
I can take a ridiculous plot as long as the story and the characters create coherent and resonant themes.
If you think about the plots of P3 and P4, they're pretty weird and nothing to go crazy about. But the actual emotional resonance? Through the roof. I'm sure P2 is similar, going by most reports.
I can take a ridiculous plot as long as the story and the characters create coherent and resonant themes.
If you think about the plots of P3 and P4, they're pretty weird and nothing to go crazy about. But the actual emotional resonance? Through the roof. I'm sure P2 is similar, going by most reports.
buddha0991
Member
I want a bear robot as a character.
also, P2 is a story from the year 2000, I fully know its not gonna be everyone's cup of tea. It is funny. I am in the opinion that P3 has the strongest Persona story, but it is absolutely destroyed by the "amazing" pacing.
Disagree wholeheartedly.
Persona 3's narrative is straight up nonsense. It's just presented in an amazing way. That last battle is epic as hell.
buddha0991
Member
Persona 3 is absolutely saved by its strong as hell finale. Persona 4 is stronger for most of it, due to pacing, but the finale in all honesty, is kind of weak.
I miss your Serph avatar btw
Yeah. I agree. A big factor about this is because Strega doesn't really have much importance to the plot in the long run, and they make up the middle of the game. Incorporating stuff from the novels and drama CDs would have helped the pacing there a lot, as well as adding more variety to Tartarus.
Wow you guys are really back on the 'everything sucks' tirade again eh?
Story and plot ARE completely different things, that's a god damn fact. Anyone that disputes that fact is objectively wrong.
Story and plot ARE completely different things, that's a god damn fact. Anyone that disputes that fact is objectively wrong.
I can't say much about Persona 4 as I am still playing it, but I just want to say that Persona 3 took itself too seriously for its own good. People talk about how oppressive the atmosphere was...but it isn't presented as such in the game. Strega were the least compelling villains in any video game I have ever played (especially Jin...ugh).
Persona 4 on the other hand does not take itself seriously, and the mechanics work well because of it. Like in Persona 3, you're hanging out with friends and going to dungeons and beating up baddies. The difference is that in Persona 4, the mechanics compliment the themes of the game, whereas the same cannot be said in Persona 3.
It was hard to explain but hopefully I expressed a bit of how I feel about Persona 3 and Persona 4. It always irks me when people say how "dark" Persona 3 is, but that just doesn't make sense for me at all. My opinion and thoughts, etc.
Persona 4 on the other hand does not take itself seriously, and the mechanics work well because of it. Like in Persona 3, you're hanging out with friends and going to dungeons and beating up baddies. The difference is that in Persona 4, the mechanics compliment the themes of the game, whereas the same cannot be said in Persona 3.
It was hard to explain but hopefully I expressed a bit of how I feel about Persona 3 and Persona 4. It always irks me when people say how "dark" Persona 3 is, but that just doesn't make sense for me at all. My opinion and thoughts, etc.
I agree. Plot versus story shouldn't be a semantic argument for anyone, either. Not if they're interested in actually understanding what constitutes quality for either.
For shame, buddha! I love P3, but the game doesn't have much of a plot beyond Go to school > Fight shadows > Fight big shadow > rinse and repeat. It only changes things up during the last quarter of the game. That said, i'll admit that it changes things up in a fairly big (I will always maintain the Persona 3's ending is one of the best endings in video gaming history out there).
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment definitely has the strongest story in the franchise, imo. Persona 2:IS story is flamboyant and all over the place, and while there's some really good stuff in there (Nyarlatotep, Masked Circle reunion) it's bogged down by nonsensical things like the Last Battalion(lol Hitler), Xibalba and other wacky stuff. Persona 2:EP is more focused and the ending sequence is absolutely perfect. The final stretch of the game is awesome (overly long dungeon excluded...) and the ending of Eternal Punishment is a slam dunk. I really wish they brought over the PSP version of EP, so that those of you who played through Innocent Sin could experience EPs story. The games go hand in hand with each other, like P2:IS doesn't conclude a damn thing.
If you include the Tatsuya Scenario (AKA, a game mode that was only available in the PSP version of eternal punishment documenting Tatsuya's point of view shortly before EP) then it isn't even a contest. P2:EP obliterates the other games on the story front.
Not really one thing I disagree with here. Persona 3 was a long ass game that was kind of hurt by it. They perfected that formula with 4.
I understand people being upset about the red herrings in the game, but if it weren't for those there'd be a two month window where the game would have been all "OMG WHERE'S THE KILLER?!" that would have matched the summer months of Persona 3, come to think of it.
I'd also agree in saying I liked IS's cast more than 3's, for the most part. Only thing that hurts IS is how short it was.(Persona 2: IS SPOILERS AHOY!)
Later Persona games, 4 especially really tuned me into the shadow concept, so when they show up in IS, I was all ready for shit to majorly go down. Then you meet Shadow Lisa, she mentions drug use, jaw drop....and then the game goes on it's merry way after you make the decision, racing to a conclusion. I so wanted more time in that game.
Only Persona 5 can save us.
Tuesday
buddha0991
Member
^that fucking guy......god damn it mr sun tan man, why you gotta have such a troll face
OH yea, EP and then P3, but that whole " but the game doesn't have much of a story beyond Go to school > Fight shadows > Fight big shadow > rinse and repeat." thing is exactly what I am talking about. P3 was way too long, they should have paced that thing better, man.
OH yea, EP and then P3, but that whole " but the game doesn't have much of a story beyond Go to school > Fight shadows > Fight big shadow > rinse and repeat." thing is exactly what I am talking about. P3 was way too long, they should have paced that thing better, man.
That will suck too.
Man, you've been making some great posts here lately. These are smart words.
I do see story and narrative as one and the same, personally, but it doesn't matter (They're just labels in this context anyway). I absolutely agree with what you're saying.
This time for real.
Prepare yourself.
People are still mixing up plot and story I see.
Steven King once said plot just get's in the way, it's about the journey of the characters and how the audience connects with them. It's why the overwhelming majority of videogames are insufferable from a writing standpoint, because plot is emphasized and utilized to push the player from one random environment the artists created to another.
Plot more often than not in writing is irrelevant to how emotionally invested you get within a story, especially when it comes to how much depth there are to characters and how well written they are.
I really need to play P2, I have a hard time believing a game with such atrocious voice acting and dialog is some sort of masterful piece of art like some make it out to be.
Haha yeah right then we'll just have to listen to how bad it is because "x reason wah wah"
Also, Fuck Firefly and fuck The Last Of us, FUCK EVERTHING!
Steven King once said plot just get's in the way, it's about the journey of the characters and how the audience connects with them. It's why the overwhelming majority of videogames are insufferable from a writing standpoint, because plot is emphasized and utilized to push the player from one random environment the artists created to another.
Plot more often than not in writing is irrelevant to how emotionally invested you get within a story, especially when it comes to how much depth there are to characters and how well written they are.
I really need to play P2, I have a hard time believing a game with such atrocious voice acting and dialog is some sort of masterful piece of art like some make it out to be.
Haha yeah right then we'll just have to listen to how bad it is because "x reason wah wah"
Also, Fuck Firefly and fuck The Last Of us, FUCK EVERTHING!
Seriously.
buddha0991
Member
I thought we were talking fables, tales and lore.
Please stop. You're demonstrating you don't understand his line of conversation. Plot =/= story/narrative. It's not a semantic argument.
buddha0991
Member
The word plot was used several times when really everyone meant narrative, ah yes. It's like when people throw the word story around when they're really talking about the plot. Right.
Plot and story are objectively 2 different things, that's not a semantic.
Also, fuck K-ON, fuck Joss Whedon, fuck Final Fantasy, fuck Dead or Alive, fuck Kayne West, fuck the NSA, fuck Mustard Tigers, fuck Apple, fuck etc.
buddha0991
Member
You didnt fuck the Knicks. Step it up Dwayne, you pleeb.
Well look at you, getting all brave like Indianapolis Jones
You guys!
And then you call me condescending.
Well I figured if you could fish it out you could take it! :b
You filming more episodes of Happy Days there Fonzie?
You guys!
And then you call me condescending.
I call you an onion ring sasquatch actually.
Make like a tree and fuck off.
I'll live.
But genuinely, story and narrative are interchangeable terms.
Look it up in a dictionary or some shit.
They're synonyms. We're talking about plot.
Whereas story is the journey of the characters.
This is the best conversation.
Textbook Internet discussion.
My dictionary has definitions.
Textbook Internet discussion.
My dictionary has definitions.
buddha0991
Member
What where you're objectively wrong and having a hard time dealing with it?
Kidding aside, plot and story are not interchangeable, look that up in the dictionary.
haha, I love how there's always someone who says to stop fighting when there's a debate.
You forgot this -
It's not really a debate one side is throwing not-so-subtle jabs at the other and acting extremely condescending in the process, and the other side is in ardent denial about ~something~.
And no offense Dantis, but come on. This is elementary stuff.
Y'all need to stop acting like butts!
Would it be to much to ask you guys to stop bickering...
All the insults I was throwing out like onion ring sasquatch, Fonzie and whatnot was actually just from a Canadian tv show. Keats and John being the only one's that recognized it.
Persona 5 isn't going to be announced next week, so at least we wont have to hear about how bad it is just yet.
- Status