• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Persona Community Thread |OT2| Burn My Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Daimaou

Member
Levito said:
The reaction to GTA V's reviews has got me wondering, would you guys actually care if Persona 5 got "less than desirable scores" from popular outlets like IGN, Destructoid, Gamespot,etc?

Like say a reviewer who's schooling/background is not in any sort of game design(Most of them), who's opinion is basically worth exactly the same as your own in an objective sense when looking at games, gave the game a 6/10. Would it diminish your hype or anything like that? Would you care in the slightest?

Hell, even if all reviewers were well versed in game theory, would you honestly care one way or another? I'm continually baffled by people obsessed with review scores. I tend to only read reviews/impressions from certain outlets, but regardless if I respect a reviewer or not, I don't let it hamper my excitement or experience spent with whatever game.


This is of course barring that that game isn't broken in some way. I'd only be upset upon reading a review if they said it had a lot of technical/performance problems. Beyond that I really don't care.
Click to expand...

Depends on few different factors. Did I enjoy it personally? Is it reviewing poorly at a few select outlets, or is it universally panned?

I don't particularly care what reviews say when it comes to purchasing games. I know my tastes well enough, and know that they do not align with more mainstream gaming.

That said, I'd still feel badly if a game that I thought was good had a predominantly negative buzz around it, if only because I'd want the game to be successful.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
Levito said:
The reaction to GTA V's reviews has got me wondering, would you guys actually care if Persona 5 got "less than desirable scores" from popular outlets like IGN, Destructoid, Gamespot,etc?

Like say a reviewer who's schooling/background is not in any sort of game design(Most of them), who's opinion is basically worth exactly the same as your own in an objective sense when looking at games, gave the game a 6/10. Would it diminish your hype or anything like that? Would you care in the slightest?

Hell, even if all reviewers were well versed in game theory, would you honestly care one way or another? I'm continually baffled by people obsessed with review scores. I tend to only read reviews/impressions from certain outlets, but regardless if I respect a reviewer or not, I don't let it hamper my excitement or experience spent with whatever game.


This is of course barring that that game isn't broken in some way. I'd only be upset upon reading a review if they said it had a lot of technical/performance problems. Beyond that I really don't care.
Click to expand...

No, it's one person's opinion. Why should I care?

I do look at reviews, but for games I'm unsure of. And even then, I don't look at the score number, I read the actual content.
 
E

EMT0

Banned
Even if Persona 5 got flat 1s across the board, I'd have to buy it to see it for myself. Like an obligation to see it through to the end so that I can bury it's shallow grave and mourn, personally.
 
L

Levito

Banned
kewlmyc said:
No, it's one person's opinion. Why should I care?
Click to expand...

People are seethingly enraged at the 9/10 reviews for GTAV, it's fucking crazy. GTA truly has moved into the realm of something like Zelda where it has a batshit crazy fanbase.


I just don't get it, the game is out tomorrow and these people will love it. Why are these fucking numbers attached to reviews so highly valued? Like I gave Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs a 6/10 and people were saying I was too harsh.... Why does it fucking matter to you what I think of the game? I don't even like scores when I do my own reviews for Rely but my managing editor forces us to.
 
D

Daimaou

Member
Levito said:
People are seethingly enraged at the 9/10 reviews for GTAV, it's fucking crazy. GTA truly has moved into the realm of something like Zelda where it has a batshit crazy fanbase.


I just don't get it, the game is out tomorrow and these people will love it. Why are these fucking numbers attached to reviews so highly valued? Like I gave Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs a 6/10 and people were saying I was too harsh.... Why does it fucking matter to you what I think of the game? I don't even like scores when I do my own reviews for Rely but my managing editor forces us to.
Click to expand...

I find it strange that a person who writes reviews simultaneously thinks they don't matter.
 
C

Caladrius

Member
Levito said:
People are seethingly enraged at the 9/10 reviews for GTAV, it's fucking crazy. GTA truly has moved into the realm of something like Zelda where it has a batshit crazy fanbase.


I just don't get it, the game is out tomorrow and these people will love it. Why are these fucking numbers attached to reviews so highly valued? Like I gave Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs a 6/10 and people were saying I was too harsh.... Why does it fucking matter to you what I think of the game? I don't even like scores when I do my own reviews for Rely but my managing editor forces us to.
Click to expand...

It's a "My shit is better than yours" kind of thing I think. There's prestige that comes with critical acclaim and there's a need to feel satisfied that their stuff is the very best. When somebody gets something they really like they start to identify themselves with it and criticism starts to become an affront to that "self". People get irate because they feel like it's degrading them and their taste, no matter whether or not that's the intention.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Persona is the kind of game where the team has proven itself to me in the past, so they've already cleared the hurdle of getting me to check it out, regardless of reviews.

The only case where I'd hold off would be if the game was getting utterly bad reviews across the board for extremely specific reasons, such as if it were unplayable due to gameplay issues.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Daimaou said:
I find it strange that a person who writes reviews simultaneously thinks they don't matter.
Click to expand...

I did not say reviews don't matter, far from it. What I'm getting at is I don't understand the mentality people seem to have that a reviewer's opinion should be objective and all encompassing of some sort of general consensus that probably hasn't even formed yet. The way games are reviewed are generally a sort of blog format, it's an opinion piece. Why get hot an bothered over what another person thinks about a game?

I do however think review scores don't fucking matter.

Perhaps what I should've said is: Why does it matter to people what abstract number is thrown in at the bottom of an opinion piece.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Levito said:
I did not say reviews don't matter, far from it. What I'm getting at is I don't understand the mentality people seem to have that a reviewer's opinion should be objective and all encompassing of some sort of general consensus that probably hasn't even formed yet. The way games are reviewed are generally a sort of blog format, it's an opinion piece. Why get hot an bothered over what another person thinks about a game?

I do however think review scores don't fucking matter.

Perhaps what I should've said is: Why does it matter to people what abstract number is thrown in at the bottom of an opinion piece.
Click to expand...

Scores themselves suck, and I hate them. Give me the deets, back up the score.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Lunar15 said:
Scores themselves suck, and I hate them. Give me the deets, back up the score.
Click to expand...

Exactly, especially when most game reviewers have no formal education when it comes to game design or theory. People get absolutely livid that reviewers with educational backgrounds similar to their own in that regard don't share the same opinion. It's fine that a lot of reviewers don't have that background, as experience itself also speaks wonders. Not to mention it's just fun to read another person's time with a game.

Basically, I don't get why someone is angry that another person that's just like them doesn't share the exact same feelings on a piece of media that they do. It's like "FUCK YOU WHATTA MEAN THIS TIM HORTON'S COFFEE ISN'T A 10/10?!?!" :p


I guess Persona is a bit different in that it's so niche to begin with that it's definitely just not going to click with some people as CJ said.
 
D

Daimaou

Member
Levito said:
I did not say reviews don't matter, far from it. What I'm getting at is I don't understand the mentality people seem to have that a reviewer's opinion should be objective and all encompassing of some sort of general consensus that probably hasn't even formed yet. The way games are reviewed are generally a sort of blog format, it's an opinion piece. Why get hot an bothered over what another person thinks about a game?

I do however think review scores don't fucking matter.

Perhaps what I should've said is: Why does it matter to people what abstract number is thrown in at the bottom of an opinion piece.
Click to expand...

The doublethink comes from saying reviews are (or should be) opinion pieces then going on to say that one person's opinion doesn't matter.

Scores are fine so long as they're not overly granular and match the tone of the review. They're good shorthand. Do some people invest too much in them? Sure, but that doesn't make the system terrible. It just means certain people suck.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
For reviews, the actual NUMBERS don't matter, it's the actual content that should matter. It kills me how many people right off a game because it's an 8.0 or under, but don't actually read the review to see that the reviewer actually liked the game, but couldn't give it a higher score due to some trivial bullshit. It's even worse when a good game gets one slightly negative review and the fans flip their shit over it. It's fucking stupid considering that those fans already have the game and are enjoying it.

I blame Metacritic myself. One bad number score and it brings down the overall Metacritic score, which in turn enrages the fans. That's why the best reviewers don't actually give a number grade.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Daimaou said:
The doublethink comes from saying reviews are (or should be) opinion pieces then going on to say that one person's opinion doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Did not say people's opinion didn't matter(Or at least, not my intent if it comes across that way)--but why does a reviewer's opinion get held up as "wrong" when it doesn't match up with another person's? In the case of GTAV, people are screaming about 9/10 reviews of a game they haven't even played yet. (Which is even more ridiculous)

Say for example: If someone reviews Persona 4, says they didn't enjoy *X thing* about it and explains why. Then in the comments someone says "This is a review it's supposed to be objective why is your opinion inserted in here?!"--It's usually something entirely subjective, like say a reviewer didn't enjoy the combat or whatever. What's to get up in arms over? It's again, probably someone with just as much formal training as you sharing their opinion. Why does it matter to you what someone else thinks of a piece of media. That's what I'm saying, people are far too concerned about how well someone else's feeling match up with their own.


Using "you" universally btw. :p
 
S

ScraftyDevil

Banned
If I could, I'd do away with review scores altogether. I'm currently in-training to be a journalist and although I love the trade, I'm dreading how the so-called "unenlightened masses" will react to my pieces once I become part of a publication.

When I reviewed games for my old high school newspaper, I used a "Buy It/Rent It/Forget It" ratings system that I think worked much better because it forced people to actually read the review and see my train of thought rather than just complain about me not giving Halo 3 the best possible score.
 
C

cjkeats

Member
I generally only use reviews to figure out which system a game I don't want to play multiplayer(IE:Just about everything) plays better on, in terms of framerate, controls, etc.Outside of that I generally can tell what games I'll enjoy and which I won't.

Special cases are made for games that get critically hammered, like Duke Nukem Forever, Time and Eternity, etc. I just have to see these myself, but only for $1.95 out of the used bin.
 
D

Daimaou

Member
Levito said:
Did not say people's opinion didn't matter(Or at least, not my intent if it comes across that way)--but why does a reviewer's opinion get held up as "wrong" when it doesn't match up with another person's? In the case of GTAV, people are screaming about 9/10 reviews of a game they haven't even played yet. (Which is even more ridiculous)

Say for example: If someone reviews Persona 4, says they didn't enjoy *X thing* about it and explains why. Then in the comments someone says "This is a review it's supposed to be objective why is your opinion inserted in here?!"--It's usually something entirely subjective, like say a reviewer didn't enjoy the combat or whatever. What's to get up in arms over? It's again, probably someone with just as much formal training as you sharing their opinion. Why does it matter to you what someone else thinks of a piece of media. That's what I'm saying.


Using "you" universally btw. :p
Click to expand...

The reviewer's opinion matters because the format of reviews hinges on the fact that you value that reviewer's opinion. If reviews were truly only objective, you could boil them down to a technical binary which read "Is this game busted? y/n."

(Also, I agree that the outrage over GTAV is silly, for what it's worth.)

Edit: Typing the correct words where you mean to is hard.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
For me, I mostly look at reviews for games I normally wouldn't buy. Seeing them describe the content of the game and its issues is rather helpful. Rarely ever do I look at reviews of games I plan on getting.

Like others said though, the score doesn't matter much. It's the info that they use to describe the game that helps me most.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Daimaou said:
Edit: Typing the correct words where you mean to is hard.
Click to expand...

I had a bunch of typo's in there, hence all the edits. :p

Daimaou said:
The reviewer's opinion matters because the format of reviews hinges on the fact that you value that reviewer's opinion. If reviews were truly only objective, you could boil them down to a technical binary which read "Is this game busted? y/n."
Click to expand...

Would have to disagree there, you can respect an opinion without agreeing with it. Jim Sterling's review of Vanquish for example I can respect, but I hardly share the same the opinion. The people livid about GTA because some reviewer's opinions don't match up with their own feelings on the game. Again--why get upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you? (That's what the GTA fans are currently doing)

Reviews really can't be purely objective, and they never should be.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Puppeteer continues to amaze me. Definitely going to be one of my favourite games this year. The art, writing and acting are some of the best I've seen in a game. I would describe it as 'wonderful'.

Had a neat idea for some fan art for it too.

You should all play it.
 
D

Daimaou

Member
Levito said:
Would have to disagree there, you can respect an opinion without agreeing with it. Jim Sterling's review of Vanquish for example I can respect, but I hardly share the same the opinion. The people livid about GTA because some reviewer's opinions don't match up with their own feelings on the game. Again--why get upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you? (That's what the GTA fans are currently doing)

Reviews really can't be purely objective, and they never should be.
Click to expand...

I think I understand what you're getting at now. I thought you meant dismissing an opinion altogether as opposed to just disagreeing with it. In that case, I don't think it has anything to do with the state of reviews. The problem stems from a portion of the populace being unable to handle reasonable discourse.


Edit: "I was thought," indeed.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Dantis said:
Puppeteer continues to amaze me. Definitely going to be one of my favourite games this year. The art, writing and acting are some of the best I've seen in a game. I would describe it as 'wonderful'.

Had a neat idea for some fan art for it too.

You should all play it.
Click to expand...



Life is all about timing, as they say.
 
N

Necrovex

Member
Dantis said:
Puppeteer continues to amaze me. Definitely going to be one of my favourite games this year. The art, writing and acting are some of the best I've seen in a game. I would describe it as 'wonderful'.

Had a neat idea for some fan art for it too.

You should all play it.
Click to expand...

How will I find the time!? GTA V, Beyond, and Pokemon (in Japanese) are about to come out.
 
D

Dantis

Member
kewlmyc said:
YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

You get used to it.
Click to expand...

It's mainly all the straps that I dislike. Looks really silly.

kewlmyc said:
Also, I would play Puppeteer but I got talked into buying GTAV. I hope it's not a disappointment like GTAIV was.
Click to expand...

This is a strange way of thinking. You bought a game you're not sure if you'll like on day 1?

cjkeats said:
Everything here is completely false.

Except the part aboutyou playing Xilla I suppose. BUT EVERYTHING ELSE!
Click to expand...

OR MAYBE I'VE PLAYED XILLIA AND THE WHOLE THING IS A LIE TO THROW YOU OFF BECAUSE I'M SUCH A BIG MIKU FAN.
 
L

Lollipop Dave

Member
Dantis said:
Puppeteer continues to amaze me. Definitely going to be one of my favourite games this year. The art, writing and acting are some of the best I've seen in a game. I would describe it as 'wonderful'.

Had a neat idea for some fan art for it too.

You should all play it.
Click to expand...

I love all these points about the game but I find the gameplay itself to be very boring..It really brings the enjoyment down..
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
Dantis said:
It's mainly all the straps that I dislike. Looks really silly.



This is a strange way of thinking. You bought a game you're not sure if you'll like on day 1?



OR MAYBE I'VE PLAYED XILLIA AND THE WHOLE THING IS A LIE TO THROW YOU OFF BECAUSE I'M SUCH A BIG MIKU FAN.
Click to expand...

Hype does that to you. Happens quite often with me, but it usually pays off. It's how I got into the Persona series and Platinum Games. Same with the Last of Us (was put off by UC3). Only time I can recall it backfiring was with Brink. Fuck that game.
 
C

cjkeats

Member
Future Rin is the best Vocaloid because she looks like Kirino. Meiko is second best
because of her giant rack.

As it stands PDF is my current personal game of the year. There are a lot of big ones I haven't played yet, but I can't see myself getting more joy out of them than I have PDF so far.
I haven't had so much fun with a rhythm game since the first time I played the original Rock Band.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
aifjlol.gif
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
So about GTAV...

I expected the typical outcry on sites gamefaqs, gamespot, etc but the response on neogaf was honestly just as shocking. I saw users who were trying to justify the removal of the 3.5/5 escapist review because it might affect sales and users who haven't even played the game being convinced that it's a 10/10 (and anyone who scores lower is an attention seeking troll)

By far the biggest issue I have is the dismissal / denial of any reviewer that claims that GTAV is misogynistic. The amount of vitriol directed to just about every review publication that brought up the topic was unprecedented. They didn't even give the game a bad score; Keza gave GTAV a 10 (lol), Carolyn Petit gave it a 9 and Chris Plante gave it a 9.5. Yet each and everyone of those reviewers were relentlessly shit on by fans.

I'm surprised that people are willingly blinding themselves to the truth to preserve some sort of perfect image for game. I'm not even trying to take the piss out of GTAV; I'm super hyped for GTAV, and pretty much it's just like any other GTA game when it comes to female characters. They're handled poorly.
 
N

Necrovex

Member
Dantis said:
Miku is gross.

Haven't played Xillia yet, but Milla has a terrible design.
Click to expand...

If only I had that one anime gif where the girl is being destroyed by a barrage of kickballs.

Dantis said:
It's mainly all the straps that I dislike. Looks really silly.

OR MAYBE I'VE PLAYED XILLIA AND THE WHOLE THING IS A LIE TO THROW YOU OFF BECAUSE I'M SUCH A BIG MIKU FAN.
Click to expand...

The straps are awesome. When I see a woman cosplay as Miku. Mmmmm.

If I was a mod, this would become your official tag. :)

Levito said:
I previewed that game at PAX, the controls are absolutely horrendous. Be wary when purchasing.
Click to expand...

Good thing that I am renting Beyond!!!! I survived Heavy Rain's controls, so I should be fine with this.

Daimaou said:
Seriously, everyone knows Luka is superior.
Click to expand...

You mean the vocaloid who is a combination of Tears (Tales of Abyss) and Lightning? Yeah, I can somewhat agree with you.
 
V

Viola of the Abyss

Member
Levito said:
The reaction to GTA V's reviews has got me wondering, would you guys actually care if Persona 5 got "less than desirable scores" from popular outlets like IGN, Destructoid, Gamespot,etc?

Like say a reviewer who's schooling/background is not in any sort of game design(Most of them), who's opinion is basically worth exactly the same as your own in an objective sense when looking at games, gave the game a 6/10. Would it diminish your hype or anything like that? Would you care in the slightest?

Hell, even if all reviewers were well versed in game theory, would you honestly care one way or another? I'm continually baffled by people obsessed with review scores. I tend to only read reviews/impressions from certain outlets, but regardless if I respect a reviewer or not, I don't let it hamper my excitement or experience spent with whatever game.


This is of course barring that that game isn't broken in some way. I'd only be upset upon reading a review if they said it had a lot of technical/performance problems. Beyond that I really don't care.
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't care. I would get the game, play it and judge by myself. It happened so many times already that reviewers gave 60 to a game that I consider to be 95 that I don't trust them anymore, latest cases being Nier and Deadly Premonition. But this happened a long time ago.
They are just other people playing games, and they might like it or not. There is no being experts in game theory since everyone of us is moved by different things. Nier is the perfect example for this, since it's a game with beautiful story and characters, a wonderful soundtrack, a fantastic atmosphere and setting, amazing art and varied and interesting overall design and gameplay ideas although not executed very well, that's an overall experience that I'd rate 95.

buddha0991 said:
Get Estoma from Cu Chulainn, it makes it so any mobs that are lower level than you do not spawn, so if you are higher level than all the enemies, no mobs spawn.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I thought it just decreased the encounter rate, therefore limiting the EXP I got from battles. I'll get it as soon as I get access to persona fusion, it doesn't look like I can do that already.

Levito said:
Luka is definitely superior to Miku.
Click to expand...

I also agree with this :p
 
J

jaxword

Member
Sophia said:
There are three of those team attacks. Chie and Yukiko, Yosuke and
Teddie
, and Naoto and Kanji. To perform them, you need to have both members in the party, and have one of them lead an all out attack. If the all out attack fails to finish off the enemy, there is a high chance they'll preform it.
Click to expand...

Is there a way to trigger the bike followups too?
 
S

Squire

Banned
PK Gaming said:
So about GTAV...

I expected the typical outcry on sites gamefaqs, gamespot, etc but the response on neogaf was honestly just as shocking. I saw users who were trying to justify the removal of the 3.5/5 escapist review because it might affect sales and users who haven't even played the game being convinced that it's a 10/10 (and anyone who scores lower is an attention seeking troll)

By far the biggest issue I have is the dismissal / denial of any reviewer that claims that GTAV is misogynistic. The amount of vitriol directed to just about every review publication that brought up the topic was unprecedented. They didn't even give the game a bad score; Keza gave GTAV a 10 (lol), Carolyn Petit gave it a 9 and Chris Plante gave it a 9.5. Yet each and everyone of those reviewers were relentlessly shit on by fans.

I'm surprised that people are willingly blinding themselves to the truth to preserve some sort of perfect image for game. I'm not even trying to take the piss out of GTAV; I'm super hyped for GTAV, and pretty much it's just like any other GTA game when it comes to female characters. They're handled poorly.
Click to expand...

It's GTA dude. Misogyny is okay. It should be expected. /sarcasm
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
Levito said:
The reaction to GTA V's reviews has got me wondering, would you guys actually care if Persona 5 got "less than desirable scores" from popular outlets like IGN, Destructoid, Gamespot,etc?

Like say a reviewer who's schooling/background is not in any sort of game design(Most of them), who's opinion is basically worth exactly the same as your own in an objective sense when looking at games, gave the game a 6/10. Would it diminish your hype or anything like that? Would you care in the slightest?

Hell, even if all reviewers were well versed in game theory, would you honestly care one way or another? I'm continually baffled by people obsessed with review scores. I tend to only read reviews/impressions from certain outlets, but regardless if I respect a reviewer or not, I don't let it hamper my excitement or experience spent with whatever game.


This is of course barring that that game isn't broken in some way. I'd only be upset upon reading a review if they said it had a lot of technical/performance problems. Beyond that I really don't care.
Click to expand...

The reviews industry tends to disincintize those who truly grok and can articulate that groking of deep mechanics, pacing, and lugoscababib discobiscuits, so it's more than a bit uncommon to have smaller games from ebbing genres get dismissive finicky excuses for reviews, as only the fans of said games care. I listen to few, really, and there are extinuationg circumstances with each one that can swing. I actually would worry if those few who are good and do understand JRPGs did give it a bad score with good reasoning that I trust them for.

Rhapsody said:
You guys are way off. Miku and Rin > every other CFM vocaloid.

As for Milla's design, her ToX1 design's pretty bad.
Click to expand...

Free DLC Stahn outfit go go go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Persona 5 The Phantom X Future Plans: Collaborations, Console Version and International Release
News
1
751
Hudo replied
Persona 3 Reload Fans Slam Expansion Pass as a 'Cash Grab'
News Drama 2
94
7K
SEGAvangelist replied
Persona 3 Reload Day One DLC Announced (Costumes, Personas, and Background Music)
News
27
3K
N30RYU replied
Atlus Fiscal Year Ended March 2024 Reports Strong Performance Despite Market Challenges
News Business
4
694
lh032 replied
Persona 3 Reload | Review Thread
Analysis Review Hype 2 3
107
10K
Grildon Tundy replied
Top Bottom