BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Get that non sense outta here lol(probably sarcasm but still).
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Persona Community Thread |OT2| Burn My Thread
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Get that non sense outta here lol(probably sarcasm but still).
buddha0991
Member
Hey, I am not saying I wanted it in, im glad its not in SMTIV, but I am frankly surprised they didn't even make an attempt to add those kind of mechanics in there. They added them to DeSu 1 and 2 relatively painlessly...
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I'm glad they didn't do that, never play devil survivor but from what I have seen in the art I guess it should fit in. Don't want Atlus to be like Ubisoft when they put AC mechanics into every fucking thing they make(watchdogs is essentially a modern AC). Supposedly they are putting a bunch of FarCry3 stuff into AC4. I would hate if they made SMT about socializing and shit.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
SMT IV already has such a system tho! It's called the alignment system.
Eeehhh I wouldn't say it's the same thing(I'm assuming the alignment system is the same as strange journey and nocturne).
So if there's a big gap in time between the Japanese and English releases of P5. Will any of you be taking a leave from the community thread? Spoiler warning is in place of course, but you know newbie's will come in and disregard the rules.
We've discussed this before(as with everything) but I can't remember what everyone said.
We've discussed this before(as with everything) but I can't remember what everyone said.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Nah, I'm assuming most people won't import it anyway. How many people here would know Japanese and would import it?
It's pretty much the same system as Strange Journey, which is actually different than the one in Nocturne. >_>;
Also, I guess I need to work on my internet sarcasm!
I'll probably try and read all the spoiler info before the game is even release! >_>;
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
It's pretty much the same system as Strange Journey, which is actually different than the one in Nocturne. >_>;
Also, I guess I need to work on my internet sarcasm!
I'll probably try and read all the spoiler info before the game is even release! >_>;
There is only 3 in SMT IV right?
When people say they want better dungeons, what do they mean specifically? Aesthetically? Or like puzzles and whatnot?
Because playing Soul Hackers has made me decide that I don't want more complex dungeons in P5 in terms of puzzles. Running between floors finding keys for doors (Which I guess P4 had too - it was shit there as well) is not my idea of fun.
Because playing Soul Hackers has made me decide that I don't want more complex dungeons in P5 in terms of puzzles. Running between floors finding keys for doors (Which I guess P4 had too - it was shit there as well) is not my idea of fun.
buddha0991
Member
SMTIV's dungeon style is perfect for Persona
Lord Scrambles
Member
Haha I can understand that sentiment
Ai was also a character that they tried to portray as attractive, but always seemed kinda fuggly to me. She kinda always reminded me of a weird alien with her orange eyes and large forehead
Agreed. Those are the kind of dungeons I want to see. No excessive puzzles or key hunts, just a good dungeon romp across detailed environments of Tokyo.
Imagine people mean they want dungeon's to be more event like--sort of similar to a Zelda game maybe.
Persona dungeon's are all randomized so that'd be pretty difficult to make them a lot more grandiose. It'd be cool if they'd add some variety of some sort to them at least. In P3/4 you just run around till you find the stairs and move on.
buddha0991
Member
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Soul hackers is old, have you looked at any SMT IV gameplay? That's what I want. The dungeons designs in that game are amazing and you aren't running through a corridor all day(from what I can tell). They need to ditch randomly generated dungeons in order for that to happen though.
This is a really great explanation and now I know exactly what I asked for, thanks.
*cough*
I have not. What's it like?
Don't think so.
buddha0991
Member
Excuse me, I mean Saki Konishi.
And the dungeons of SMTIV arent just random huge ass mazes for the most part, but rather, feel like real world locations you explore.
Hard to explain them without showing. But basically Tokyo has this huge world map, with many of the districts being distinct dungeons. The dungeons aren't radical in design or randomly picked like Persona 3 or Persona 4, but are hand crafted to actually look like the area you're in. It's wonderful, and easily the best part of SMT IV. Which is saying something cuz the whole game is amazing.
Here's a video from Kasumigaseki, which is about one third of the way into the game. Minor spoilers in the video of course. Mostly thanks to the commentator.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Well in persona(and a lot of other SMT games iirc but it's even worse in persona), you are essentially running through a maze the whole time. You explore the maze, find the stairs and move on. From what I have seen in SMT IV it isn't just a maze, but has beautifully detailed areas that you can explore. You don't run through a maze(the entire time) in that game.
Lord Scrambles
Member
I gotta agree with this, especially with the rather repetitive combat that persona has. Having to go two floors down at Naoto's dungeon damn near gave me a rage heart attack.
There's actually games that do randomized dungeon's a lot better than Persona. Diablo 2 was basically all randomized but the art direction made it feel fresh even after playing it for hundreds of hours.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
This is a big problem too
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I actually thought about bringing this up, I doubt they could pull it off though. Would love to be wrong.
Lord Scrambles
Member
Agreed
Yet another problem caused by the overly simplified version of the Press-Turn system they use in Persona 3/4. It makes it difficult to make random encounters challenging and have variety unless you take away all their weaknesses.
So it's just the aesthetics? No silly key finding or anything?
It was more of a focus there. Maybe with a bigger team (Which they now have), they'll be able to do a better job of it. I don't mind the random dungeons personally, and I am absolutely convinced that randomisation was the only way to go with a dungeon the size of Tartarus.
TurnipFritters
Member
Persona would absolutely benefit from Diablo-esque randomly generated dungeons (ie something that's a bit more than just "hallways and boxes").
I appreciate the way SMT4's dungeons were so interconnected. Like each "town" area has multiple exists that led back to different parts of the surface. It made exploring fun, because it's like, "hey, if I go through this ventilation shaft where will I end up? let's find out!"
This is, of course, ignoring the Domains, which were essentially Persona dungeons except even lamer.
I appreciate the way SMT4's dungeons were so interconnected. Like each "town" area has multiple exists that led back to different parts of the surface. It made exploring fun, because it's like, "hey, if I go through this ventilation shaft where will I end up? let's find out!"
This is, of course, ignoring the Domains, which were essentially Persona dungeons except even lamer.
buddha0991
Member
Pretty sure a dungeon or two has something like that, I know one of the final dungeons has shit like that.
I found it had "harder" random battles than most non SMT RPG's however. You could still get wiped on any monster, and battles were more a war of attrition, as in figuring out how to beat all the enemies as quickly as possible without wasting too much MP.
Is it perfect or very difficult? No. But I enjoyed it more than most other games, I guess. We'll see what happens in the next one.
I think what they need to do is just put in better difficulty settings for people like Sophia. I had no qualms with the difficulty of vanilla P4.
P4G was a complete joke though.
TurnipFritters
Member
Another thing Persona would benefit from how SMT4 does things from is the way enemy types are kind of displayed on the field map.
buddha0991
Member
Turnip, what did you think of SMTIV in the end anyways?
Persona 5 is more of an open-world exploration, with social link "factions" instead of just one person per link. Encounters cut to a traditional turn-based combat, but the rest is open world city/dungeon exploration.
Persona users use their cellphones to summon their personas and dungeons are shadowified/twisted versions of normal places in the game.
Persona users use their cellphones to summon their personas and dungeons are shadowified/twisted versions of normal places in the game.
Lord Scrambles
Member
You're right, my first experience with press-turn was with SMT4 and one of its biggest strengths is that there is never a dull battle, even the lowest level enemies have the ability to kick your ass if you get too lax with it
That being said I don't want them to institute press-turn to Persona just because I want Persona to develop into its own systems and what have you. I want them to scrap One More, but I also want them o think of something better and different.
They're harder only in the sense that they require you to exploit weaknesses. The One More system however doesn't require you to think of your actions too much beyond that. At least not for regular encounters. In contrast to Nocturne, DDS1/2 and IV where you actually have to consider what your fellow party members have for skills, and who is next in the turn order.
Persona 4 is admittedly better about this than Persona 3 was, but only because they took a good deal of Tartarus bosses and made them normal encounters in P4 right out of the gate.
P4G's idea of "Very Hard" was total bullshit. It didn't actually make the game harder, it just made everything more grindy. :\
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I wonder what they will do about that in P5? I guess they could give the enemies the ability to use all out attacks as well. They could also let everyone be able to switch personas(as long as it's in their arcana) and make the shadows more unique and diverse(NO MORE PALETTE SWAPS).
I wouldn't say all aesthetics, it certainly makes the gameplay better.
Words couldn't describe how much this pissed me off.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
All this talk about combat makes want a devil summoner 3, if it happens I hope we'll see it next year(and not on 3DS).
Torchlight 2 was an even smaller team than Diablo 2--it was indie game, and it did random dungeon's even better than Diablo 2 in that regard. I'd love even little things like random doors and branching paths that went off to different(secret) areas. Give players room to explore.
Am I alone in thinking Tartarus and the dungeon's in Persona 4 were essentially the same thing? Persona 4's plot broke it up so it felt a vastly different dungeon each time, but the structure was basically the exact same: 10 levels(varies) of a certain art style--Move on.
It was the same. Just breaking it up and having more defined themes made it seem a little nicer.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
No you aren't they are literally the are objectively the same thing, there is no denying it.
The dungeons in Persona 4 actually have a completely different style of randomization than Tartarus. It wasn't better however. It just introduced new flaws (P4 dungeons are not self-sustaining like Tartarus was without excessive grinding)
Tartarus's floors are smaller, and condense everything much closer to each other. There's also more chests per floor, and more floors on average. Persona 4's dungeons in contrast cover more ground, and tend to have longer hallways. But the amount of items is lower on average than Tartarus.
Tartarus's floors are smaller, and condense everything much closer to each other. There's also more chests per floor, and more floors on average. Persona 4's dungeons in contrast cover more ground, and tend to have longer hallways. But the amount of items is lower on average than Tartarus.
Lord Scrambles
Member
Eh they were essentially the same thing, but the aesthetic, the story breaks, and the fact that P4 dungeons actually give you something to work for i.e. Rescue the dude at the end, made P4 much MUCH better imo
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Really? It felt the same to me. Just less grinding I guess.
SMT IV exploration would be cool in P5 but I don't know exactly how it'd work. In SMT IV there's an above ground "dangerous" area then the lower ground towns. Both are part of the same area and there are entrances/exits and shortcuts scattered throughout that lead to above and below ground. This works well because the areas comprise both outside and inside areas but Persona dungeons are all inside, are pure dungeons crawls, and are usually constrained (SMT IV's actual dungeon areas are like that) unlike the "fields" in SMT IV.
So they'd really have to change the structure. I don't know if in P5 they'll stick with the same dungeon gimmick as in P3/P4 or change it up ie. you enter some some hub (Tartarus or TV world) and then you go to different floors in P3 or different dungeons in P4, but everything's all in the same area/world unlike SMT IV where you're running around a world map to get to different areas.
So they'd really have to change the structure. I don't know if in P5 they'll stick with the same dungeon gimmick as in P3/P4 or change it up ie. you enter some some hub (Tartarus or TV world) and then you go to different floors in P3 or different dungeons in P4, but everything's all in the same area/world unlike SMT IV where you're running around a world map to get to different areas.
TurnipFritters
Member
I liked the gameplay but they really dropped the ball with the characters. The characters being slaves to the plot is pretty much the norm for SMT, but in previous games the characters all sort of had something that resembled a character arc where you can kind of see why they end up the way they do (ie Isamu constantly getting the shit beaten out of him made him want to be alone, Chaos Hero being the victim of bullying drives him to seek power, etc), but in SMT4 the characters... don't. When Extreme Alignment Stuff starts happening (extremely abruptly, I might add), (major endgame spoilers)
they fall in line even though nothing to that point would suggest they'd be even remotely ok with that kind of stuff.
I was a little bothered by who did and did not receive character portraits.
Nozomi, the Captured Samurai, the Red Knight (+ his other identity, who really should have made an appearance earlier on to really lend that subplot some weight)
K or Kaga
There were a lot of weird choices in the game.
buddha0991
Member
A ton of characters who got portraits almost feel like red herrings.
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