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Persona Community Thread |OT2| Burn My Thread
- Thread starter Dantis
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TurnipFritters
Member
most of the major story scenes are characters literally talking to themselves about their opposing character traits. like, it's totes ok to like the characterization, but the persona series has always been pretty heavy handed.
idk a lot of the praise the persona series gets for its characters just goes to show how far behind video game storytelling still lags compared to, say, the average primetime teen drama
I disagree, but you're right to address the series a whole. Like u said, it's weird that P4 is continually singled out for this.
CrazyTank940
Member
I knew before even clicking this was gonna be JoJo's, pretty excited for it
brb harassing my cable provider over why the hell I don't have this channel
TurnipFritters
Member
yeah. i mean, persona 1 literally has maki's evil half wearing black and her good half wearing white. it's not subtle.
Right. The point is valid, but in light of the series as a whole. Ironically, the shadows came from P2.
TurnipFritters
Member
let met tell you about pandora
buddha0991
Member
penis with a maki face
Or MC's shadow
To be honest though, shadows weren't fully realized until P2:EP. P2:IS had some fantastic shadows (Lisa, Maya) but some of the others (Eikichi, Tatsuya) were underwhelming. P2:EP did a great job at fully establishing the concept.
This isn't saying a whole lot, but I found more depth in persona than I have in the average adult targeted prime-time TV show. Go watch the later seasons of Dexter and tell me that Persona games aren't better written. Hell, most games have better writing than the final seasons of Dexter.
There's so much bad writing in TV and Film. People complain about the writing in video games, but I often find it way better than most of the shlock out there. You'll just see far too many stories where they totally forgot to give motivations to a character, or the writing betrays the themes. There's definitely great stuff out there, but over 50% of the offerings are just poorly written. Of course, I don't think games have hit the true highs that either of those mediums have, but I can definitely say that I've enjoyed the writing in some games far more than I have in many movies and shows.
There's so much bad writing in TV and Film. People complain about the writing in video games, but I often find it way better than most of the shlock out there. You'll just see far too many stories where they totally forgot to give motivations to a character, or the writing betrays the themes. There's definitely great stuff out there, but over 50% of the offerings are just poorly written. Of course, I don't think games have hit the true highs that either of those mediums have, but I can definitely say that I've enjoyed the writing in some games far more than I have in many movies and shows.
Dexter used to be so good. Then the last few seasons, leading to dat finale...
Oooooooooooh, he's a lumberjack he's ok!
/hangself
But then I go back to watching Doctor Who, and smile. Nice seeing good TV exist as well as games, it's just they're not the norm.
Agreed.
In general when I hear criticism of games writing I feel like people are thinking of classic prose or something and that's not really fair. There's plenty of schlock that's out there in TV and film and a LOT of it is below games that are better written than people give them credit for.
But that's my point: game stories are often thrown in this weird ghetto "below" film and TV. It's true, stories in most games don't match say, The Godfather or Breaking Bad in terms of writing, but I've found that most games actually hit the baseline of what constitutes "a decent story", unlike so many other films and shows out there.
Actual footage of Persona 5's scriptwriting process.
I agree for videogames as a whole to a degree, but not specifically the Persona series. A lot of people's expectations when it comes to videogames are ridiculously low, I agree. For example: Heavy Rain is a story so terribly written that it would've been laughed out of any film festival were it a movie, but because most people pay no attention to the story or plot in a videogame--people were taken aback when the game forced it on them, and thought it had had actual depth to it.
However, something can be well written--but also have blatant heavy handed symbolism/metaphors/tropes or what have you. It's all about presentation, how the strengths of the specific medium are utilized.
Take LOST for example, it's a show that had a lot of excellent well rounded characters--but the overarching plot literally in the end was "light vs. Dark"--No really: It was a guy in white clothes vs. a guy in black clothes. That overarching plot was pretty silly--that does not however diminish the strengths of the writing as a whole however. A weak point? Of course, but that doesn't mean the show(or rather popular TV drama's) suddenly has less merit when compared to literature or movies. A medium isn't dragged down entirely cause of some of it's weaker elements represented. The heavy handedness you mention in present and permeates every medium, it's not really more emphasized in gaming really.
For the interactive medium, I believe Persona does an excellent job in presenting it's character's. The Social links and specifically how you get to know the characters is done in a way that is something that's really not possible in a completely linear form of storytelling like say film or literature. There's a good layer of depth to everyone, you can describe every character soley on their personality beyond the character trope aspects utilized in certain characters.
Presentation is key to every story, it really doesn't matter if something is cliche or retreads tried and true narrative hooks. No Country for Old Men's plot is literally: "A hitman chases a dude that found some money"(something that's been done a billion times), yet how the actual story and journey of the characters is told to the audience that makes it incredible.
Dexter used to be so good. Then the last few seasons, leading to dat finale...
Oooooooooooh, he's a lumberjack he's ok!
/hangself
But then I go back to watching Doctor Who, and smile. Nice seeing good TV exist as well as games, it's just they're not the norm.
Which has the better writing, Dexter or Final Fantasy XIII?
Moms are tough vs. lumber jack!
Dantis, it's that time of the week, watch Perfect Blue. You've probably seen Black Swan; Perfect Blue is that but far better.
Holy shit, best post I've seen in ages.
Ooh, Wikipedia says that movie is Hitchcock-esque. Sounds awesome.
Black Swan is Aronofsky's top film.
I really need to get caught up on my Satoshi Kon backlog. Only thing I've seen by him is Tokyo Godfathers.
I liked The Wrestler more, but you can't go wrong with either one. (Fun fact: Black Swan and The Wrestler were originally going to be one movie.)
Honestly, considering Dexter made me feel like a sucker for watching it all the way, I'll go with that. That final episode was nothing but one curb stomp to fans after another, and then a nonsensical ending thrown in. I mean, I loved LOST until the finale which made me kind of never want to watch it again, but it wasn't the bad feelings of Dexter by any stretch.
Then again I had heard that one of the big writers left the show after season 4, explaining oh so damn much. :\
Dexter starts out good. Final Fantasy XIII starts out with "Moms are tough."
Enough said.
Figures this happens when I'm spending ALL MY MONEYS ON POKEYMANS.
Blick Winkel
Member
Yeah but at least XIII ends somewhat normally rather than Dexter being like "Hey guys I'm live like my beard"
Fake Edit: okay just remembered XIII-2 and 3 existed so I stand corrected
I will say, as an addendum to the previous discussion, that the actual plot writing in Persona 3 and 4 leave a lot to be desired. Character writing = great, plot writing = ehhhhhh.
I think that's where game writing falls apart the most, it's difficult to keep up an engaging plot so consistently over a long period of time.
I think that's where game writing falls apart the most, it's difficult to keep up an engaging plot so consistently over a long period of time.
They're perfect as companion pieces, which is what I thought they were. That makes sense.
Lollipop Dave
Member
Aww yes! I need to play through P2:IS again!
Ha.
though I like the start of FXIII
buddha0991
Member
I think that's why P2 gets so talked up, good story, great characters, consistent pacing. I hope P5 can rectify the plot and pacing issues. P4 was a step in the right direction pacing wise, but the plot left a bit to be desired.
Not talked up by me btw, I stay neutral about it.
Not talked up by me btw, I stay neutral about it.
Yes, Best Actress - Natalie Portman
Pfft. Sure. I'm just sayin' man:
P2 - shit ain't exactly Faulkner.
TurnipFritters
Member
not pugs don't care
Do the final seasons of Dexter involve him getting a magical crystal of truth that he can use to reveal the real serial killer mastermind?
buddha0991
Member
Mj pls
To a large extent, I agree with this.
The Social Links in Persona always remind me of Disney's Recess but for teenagers. Make of that what you will.
Correct! I love Aronofsky. The Fountain is probably my favourite film of all time.
Dexter ends with him killing his sister for no reason, driving a boat into a hurricane, and starting a new life as a lumberjack.
You're about as neutral on the matter as David Cage is neutral on metacritic scores.
buddha0991
Member
I was just teasen' buddha.
Would never bring up David Cage in any matter other than a Joke.
That reminds me--Dantis how on earth can you share than sentiment about Persona but also say you liked Heavy Rain?
Good cartoon.
buddha0991
Member
Indigo Prophecy is the best David Cage
Not sure how I'll feel when I do Social Links again. lol
I wouldn't say games really lag that far behind TV though. I find them close enough to compare.
I'm kind of surprised at this discussion since usually people talk about how far games are behind literature.
That's indisputable.
(really though, I'm sorry--That post I made sounded antagonistic)
Remember when he was was self-absorbed enough to put a digital version of himself in the games' tutorial?
David Cage is the comedic gift that never stops giving.
That reminds me--Dantis how on earth can you share than sentiment about Persona but also say you liked Heavy Rain?
Because I accept the lower bar. There are limitations placed on all media that are inherent to the way we digest it. Books, films and games.
Game narratives are incredibly hard to get right ('Right' being up to the same quality you'd see in a high end film), but I'm okay with that.
Great cartoon, actually. I'm sure it would do little for me now, but when I was, say 8 or 9, it blew my mind.
I make the comparison positively.
That really doesn't make any sense though, Heavy Rain is bad even for storytelling in gaming. It just shoves it's plot in your face the whole time, as Cage did actually wanted to tell that story--There was passion in the project, it still didn't produce anything good though. Whereas most games are written in a way to get you from point a to point b. (IE: most AAA shooters where they create excuses for you to go from one set piece to the next)
Jesus just thinking back to how the characters had literally no personality makes me laugh. David Cage is a father himself, but somehow the relationship and conversations between Ethan and his sons sounds like a bunch of robots talking to eachother.
The only thing I'd say was well done in that game was -some- of the QTE's.
Personally, I thought that was brilliant.
I really liked Indigo Prophecy right up to the part where it started being nonsense. Which is to say, for about... two hours.
I fucking love two cameras in a game though. Love it when a camera opens up and squeezes the other to the side. I don't remember what the technique is called but I only really remember it from Indigo Prophecy and Hitman: Blood Money
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