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[Dantis]

They're not, Index is.

The games with S. Links are the most popular, best-selling games in the series, with the most merchandising and - after P4 - psudo franchise potential. S. Links and the calendar aren't going anywhere and don't need to. Growth and evolution == throwing out gameplay elements the team is consistently hailed for that generally work quite well. It means improving them.

I don't think it will even get as far as Index forcing them to do it. Hashino will be quite aware of how much people like S Links. Whenever Soejima and Hashino do interviews, friendship and bonds and all that are always a major part of it. Persona has become as much about the links between people as it has about concealing aspects of your personality.

S Links aren't going anywhere. The only possibility I can see is that they get re-jigged a little.

 

[Squire]

They're going to evolve, but they're not going away or being scaled back at all. They're arguably the series defining feature.

It's ironic too, because this discussion comes up often and it's framed as moving forward, but what people are usually talking about is going backwards to do something more akin to P1/2.

If you notice, they tried that when they remade IS/EP and they bombed. That style of game with relation to Persona is over.

 

[Sophia]

If you notice, they tried that when they remade IS/EP and they bombed. That style of game with relation to Persona is over.

Lets not rewrite history now. IS/EP bombed because they barely qualify as remakes, IS hosts a number of technical issues, and EP was poorly timed in general.

 

[Squire]

Lets not rewrite history now. IS/EP bombed because they barely qualify as remakes, IS hosts a number of technical issues, and EP was poorly timed in general.

I'm not denying that, but if that style of game was so desired they probably would've performed better despite all that.

 

[Jintor]

Wrapped up P3P tonight. I knew what was coming, I knew what would happen, but even then . . . all my feels. What a goddamn great game.

Now to figure out if I have time for Soul Hackers before SMT4 hits.

I enjoy having mods that will say 'all my feels' unironically.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I don't like the perception that a light tone = bad. If anything, I prefer games which are, for the most part, light in tone as it both makes playing them a more inviting experience as well as giving the dark sections more impact and weight as there's more of a juxtoposition between them and the rest of the game.

I believe it was Jim Sterling who said that games that are dark all the way through are more boring than those that show us the happy times first so that there's more to lose, and I agree with this sentiment. Darker does not equal better.

 

[Dantis]

I agree, though I think Golden took it too far in the direction of humour. Persona 3 and 4 were both fine.

 

[Squire]

I don't really care either way. I like both. Some of my favorite games and even more so films are pretty grim. I'm good with whatever tone they want to take as long as they stick to it and it's consistsnt, which I feel P4 is throughout.

And consistency doesn't mean staying in the same mood the whole way through, either. That game has some high highs and low lows to match and I think it balances out really well.

 

[buddha0991]

 

[Taruranto]

People don't like the "light tone" thing because Megaten (inb4 Personaisnotmegaten) used be a series of jrpg with certain themes and atmosphere, and P4 now looks like it could pass as a GUST product.

 

[buddha0991]

People don't like the "light tone" thing because Megaten (inb4 Personaisnotmegaten) used be a series of jrpg with certain themes and atmosphere, and P4 now looks like it could pass as a GUST product.

I've stated this before, and ill state it again, going a little overboard there...

Also Persona 4 has more of the traditional Persona themes than Persona 3 ever had.

 

[jello44]

Wrapped up P3P tonight. I knew what was coming, I knew what would happen, but even then . . . all my feels. What a goddamn great game.

Now to figure out if I have time for Soul Hackers before SMT4 hits.

Soul Hackers is about 20-30 hours depending on play style for the main story. You might be able to plow through it within the week.

 

[Goby]

I've stated this before, and ill state it again, going a little overboard there...

Also Persona 4 has more of the traditional Persona themes than Persona 3 ever had.

What? You're talking nonsense mate

 

[buddha0991]

What? You're talking nonsense mate

Prove me wrong

 

[Trigger]

What? You're talking nonsense mate

Naw, Buddha is on the money. The nature of the shadows, coming of age themes, and some of the character tropes in P4 are more reminiscent of P1/P2.

 

[ShmeebAlina]

I don't like the perception that a light tone = bad. If anything, I prefer games which are, for the most part, light in tone as it both makes playing them a more inviting experience as well as giving the dark sections more impact and weight as there's more of a juxtoposition between them and the rest of the game.

I believe it was Jim Sterling who said that games that are dark all the way through are more boring than those that show us the happy times first so that there's more to lose, and I agree with this sentiment. Darker does not equal better.

Couldn't agree more. A perfect example of this is a certain spoilery part near the end of P4, it's all happy and cheery and suddenly BAM, that phone call.

And who cares if it's not got the same tone as SMT, it's a spin-off not a replacement, they can play around with things while keeping similar themes.

 

[Omikaru]

What bothers me is when people say the lighter tone is less "mature". I can get preferring one over another, but I feel that Persona 4 is far more adult than Persona 3 in many respects, and P3 is by far the darker game.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I've stated this before, and ill state it again, going a little overboard there...

Also Persona 4 has more of the traditional Persona themes than Persona 3 ever had.

Naw, Buddha is on the money. The nature of the shadows, coming of age themes, and some of the character tropes in P4 are more reminiscent of P1/P2.

What bothers me is when people say the lighter tone is less "mature". I can get preferring one over another, but I feel that Persona 4 is far more adult than Persona 3 in many respects, and P3 is by far the darker game.

 

[kewlmyc]

I don't honestly see P3 as a dark game. Sure the last month was kinda depressing, and the overal theme is "remember, everyone dies", but other than that nothing was really that dark and brooding. Hard to be dark and brooding when you're constantly hanging out with friends.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I don't honestly see P3 as a dark game. Sure the last month was kinda depressing, and the overal theme is "remember, everyone dies", but other than that nothing was really that dark and brooding. Hard to be dark and brooding when you're constantly hanging out with friends.

I disagree. Constant themes of suicide, death, loss, betrayal and so on as well as the Social Links being generally more depressing make it undeniably a darker game in tone than Persona 4. That's not to mention the general aesthetic with elements such as a darker representing color or Evokers as a means of summoning.

Persona 2 and Persona 4 also have dark elements to their story. All of the games do, but all of the games also have moments of lightheartedness to them in-between the dramatic ones.

 

[Trigger]

Between the Dark Hour, the Apathy Syndrome victims, and the evokers, I thought P3 had quite a foreboding atmosphere which contributes to its image as a "dark" game. I quite liked that though. Few JRPGs have that vibe.

EDIT - Or what Flux said.

 

[Lunar15]

I just like that each game adheres to its themes. I was reading through the art books for P3 and P4, and Soejima wrote about what themes he was aiming to capture with each. I think he nailed it with both games.

This is why I don't really care what tone P5 tries to achieve. If it's lighthearted, that's fine. If it's dark, that's cool too. I just expect it to have a consistent theme because that's what the series has given me so far. I mean, look, we can say that P4 isn't all that dark compared to the rest of the series, but at the of the day it's still about investigating serial murders and finding out about people's darkest, innermost secrets. What the tone is isn't important. It's how the tone gives the plot weight that matters.

 

[kewlmyc]

I disagree. Constant themes of suicide, death, loss, betrayal and so on as well as the Social Links being generally more depressing make it undeniably a darker game in tone than Persona 4. That's not to mention the general aesthetic with elements such as a darker representing color or Evokers as a means of summoning.

Persona 2 and Persona 4 also have dark elements to their story. All of the games do, but all of the games also have moments of lightheartedness to them in-between the dramatic ones.

Of course it's darker in tone than P4. I never said it wasn't. I just don't see it as a dark game. Or at least not as grimdark as people make it out to be. It has its moments of dark, but to generalize it as a dark game seems too much.

 

[Meia]

Well, I wouldn't consider 3's tone light.


It's hard to remember what the actual tone of the game was, or how dark it was. After playing through it all the way, it's hard to see it as it was the first time through after all. Just knowing where it all goes has a tendency to paint a darker picture over everything, which makes sense as you notice the imagery and stuff in a new light.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Of course it's darker in tone than P4. I never said it wasn't. I just don't see it as a dark game. Or at least not as grimdark as people make it out to be. It has its moments of dark, but to generalize it as a dark game seems too much.

Then what's a dark game to you? Differentiating tone doesn't have to be black and white, but the game's main theme is death and that's not particularly light.

One could probably make the argument that The Last of Us is not a grim game for several reasons, for example, but I couldn't agree with that.

 

[Dantis]

Of course it's darker in tone than P4. I never said it wasn't. I just don't see it as a dark game. Or at least not as grimdark as people make it out to be. It has its moments of dark, but to generalize it as a dark game seems too much.

I've usually described it as cold, rather than dark. I see it very much as a game about overcoming hopelessness.

In Persona 4, all the S Links are about people's personality quirks and inner fears, whereas in Persona 3, it's about people suffering through things you can't just 'get over'.

 

[kewlmyc]

Then what's a dark game to you? Differentiating tone doesn't have to be black and white, but the game's main theme is death and that's not particularly light.

One could probably make the argument that The Last of Us is not a grim game for several reasons, for example, but I couldn't agree with that.

A dark game to me is a game that I generally felt depressing to play. The depressing moments outweigh the fun moments. I've never felt this with Persona 3. The fun moments outweight the depressing moments for me. I guess I'm in the minority on this though. It's just people act as if P3 is the darkest thing ever made (not PersonaGAF, other people I talk to), which I can't understand.

 

[Venfayth]

Yeah but guns man

 

[PK Gaming]

Wrapped up P3P tonight. I knew what was coming, I knew what would happen, but even then . . . all my feels. What a goddamn great game.

Now to figure out if I have time for Soul Hackers before SMT4 hits.

Yup, we all went through that. P3's ending sequence is perfect.

 

[pariah164]

Late to the party as far as "Persona 3/4 is too light" debate, but here's my two cents:

Light, hmm, let's see...

- Murderers
- Demons
- Dealing with heavy subject matter (sexuality, gender identity, etc.)
- Struggles to find the truth
- Hell, death in general

Spoiler

(Sob, Nanako)

Yeah, Persona 4 is definitely light and doesn't fit AT ALL with SMT. [/sarcasm]

Whatever. P4G is my favorite Persona game.

As for P3... what? How can anyone consider that light? I like how it got me in the feels right at the end.

Spoiler

It builds up all the protagonist's relationships with people, and then, at the end when he/she dies, it leaves you feeling gutted.

That was more depressing to me than anything.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Whatever. P4G is my favorite Persona game.

Right on!

 

[Taruranto]

There is a thing called "presentation", that is a pretty big thing in these kind of things.

Yeah, there are murderers. A couple of characters no one cared about died, meanwhile rainbows flow out of the characters asses in Golden OP.

 

[buddha0991]

There is a thing called "presentation", that is a pretty big thing in these kind of things.

Yeah, there are murderers. A couple of characters no one cared about died, meanwhile rainbows flow out of the characters asses in Golden OP.

p4 golden =/= persona 4

it was agreed on by some that some of the presentation of p4 is sacrificed in that.

P4G does go a little too far in the lel randumb joke so kawaii territory

 

[Squire]

There is a thing called "presentation", that is a pretty big thing in these kind of things.

There is a thing called "overexagerration". Here, it's asinine quips like, "It could be a GUST production!" and "It looks like a Tales game!" that show your hand and kill your argument before you even start it.

 

[IHaveCandy]

They're not, Index is.

The games with S. Links are the most popular, best-selling games in the series, with the most merchandising and - after P4 - psudo franchise potential. S. Links and the calendar aren't going anywhere and don't need to. Growth and evolution =/= throwing out gameplay elements the team is consistently hailed for that generally work quite well. It means improving them.

So you read "We want to make a change as big as 2 was to 3" as "We are definitely going to keep the social mechanics of 3 and 4"?

 

[Squire]

So you read "We want to make a change as big as 2 was to 3" as "We are definitely going to keep the social mechanics of 3 and 4"?

Did you read it as, "We're going to throw out everything that works well for no good reason"? That's what you're arguing.

P3/4 aren't different from 1/2 for no reason. They came from different creative leads striving to create better games. It's not the same thing as what's happenning now, yet that's how you paint it.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Did you read it as, "We're going to throw out everything that works well for no good reason"? That's what you're arguing.

P3/4 aren't different from 1/2 for no reason. They came from different creative leads striving to create better games. It's not the same thing as what's happenning now, yet that's how you paint it.

I have no idea why you think that when this is what I said.

You don't agree that Persona games generally carry a dark tone? Persona 4 is the only one that carries such a light atmosphere. "Memento Mori" seems to be a big part of Persona's message throughout the games.





http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=526104


In the same interview, Hashino stated that the Persona Team wants to challenge more new things in Persona 5 similar to the changes they made from Persona 2 to Persona 3. He also stated that they had solidified Persona 5's themes.


That reads to me that they are willing to make drastic changes and ditch S linking and calendar stuff for something else. It doesn't mean they certainly will, but they aren't going to make it a necessity.

 

[TurnipFritters]

they won't get rid of slinks because people really, really like dating cartoon characters.

in p5 one of the slinks will be every occupant of a robot hotsprings inn, because that what sells. despite each of the occupants being one dimensional stereotypes and their slink storylines going nowhere, p5 will be praised by fans as having realistic, down to earth characters, realer characters than any other game, movie, tv show or novel ever released.

edit:
arguing over "lightness" and "darkness" is so dumb y'all.

edit 2:

A dark game to me is a game that I generally felt depressing to play. The depressing moments outweigh the fun moments. I've never felt this with Persona 3. The fun moments outweight the depressing moments for me. I guess I'm in the minority on this though. It's just people act as if P3 is the darkest thing ever made (not PersonaGAF, other people I talk to), which I can't understand.

JRPG fans tend to be rather isolated when it comes to video games, and oftentimes it feels like they legit do not realize the type of content in the games that other companies are making.

 

[TurnipFritters]

honestly i'd consider Radiata Stories darker than any Persona game.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I really don't want Persona 5 to be another harem game. I'm fine with S. Linking and dating, but I don't want it to be set up as a harem experience. I don't want every girl to be oddly attracted to the MC just because he spends enough time with them. I want their affection to be difficult to gain and it to actually be meaningful to have a girlfriend within the game. As it is now, you just hop from girl to girl and as soon as you've got them as a girlfriend, you never talk to them again because that is just a waste of time.

 

[TurnipFritters]

I really don't want Persona 5 to be another harem game. I'm fine with S. Linking and dating, but I don't want it to be set up as a harem experience. I don't want every girl to be oddly attracted to the MC just because he spends enough time with them. I want their affection to be difficult to gain and it to actually be meaningful to have a girlfriend within the game. As it is now, you just hop from girl to girl and as soon as you've got them as a girlfriend, you never talk to them again because that is just a waste of time.

there are plenty of ways for the SLink system to be improved, I agree.

 

[Squire]

there are plenty of ways for the SLink system to be improved, I agree.

No one disagrees.

The assertion the system will be removed or constrained to any extent is what's ill-informed.

 

[IHaveCandy]

No one disagrees.

The assertion the system will be removed or constrained to any extent is what's ill-informed.

The assertion that it will certainly remain when they said they are looking to make big changes is what is mostly ill-informed. Nothing is saying it is certainly gone, but I don't understand this "It has to stay it is too popular to not go!" argument. They could very well find a new mechanic that would become even more popular.

 

[Taruranto]

There is a thing called "overexagerration". Here, it's asinine quips like, "It could be a GUST production!" and "It looks like a Tales game!" that show your hand and kill your argument before you even start it.

Now that i think about it, I never had sex with a robot in a Tales of game.

Maybe a Neptunia comparison is more adept?

 

[TurnipFritters]

have you ever had sex with a pharaoh?

the music of persona 5 will be done by kanye west, you will play as kanye west and all the slinks will be with kanye west.

 

[ForteanMan]

have you ever had sex with a pharaoh?

the music of persona 5 will be done by kanye west, you will play as kanye west and all the slinks will be with kanye west.

Hmmm this is relevant to my interests........


Kidding. Slightly. I guess personally I don't really care what P5 really contains so long as it finally comes out.

 

[Squire]

have you ever had sex with a pharaoh?

I put the **** in the sarcophagus!

Spoiler

I actually love Kanye.

 

[TurnipFritters]

I put the tarot in the sarcophagus!

Spoiler

I actually love Kanye.

the velvet room is a pyramid, confirmed

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Ryan Davis' death is affecting me, guys. I was just re-watching the episode of the Endurance Run he guest starred in last week :'(

No matter how many times you experience it, you just can't get used to death ;_;

 

[cjkeats]

I approve of a Kaye themed anything.

Ryan Davis' death is affecting me, guys. I was just re-watching the episode of the Endurance Run he guest starred in last week :'(

No matter how many times you experience it, you just can't get used to death ;_;

Me too scrafty. I've listened/read/watched him talk about dumb stuff almost daily for over a decade.