-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT3| Your thread title sucks, Yukiko.
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
- Status
I concur with this as well.
Lord Scrambles
Member
Oh jeez, the cast encompassing harems.
cj_iwakura
Member
It was still very tastefully handled, and Kaneko has gone on record as saying he believes that's Tatsuya's best match. (Personally I go for Maya, but Kaz thinks she's too 'bubble-headed'.)
That wasn't already canon?
What kind of lofty promises? Forgive me, I'm not too sharp with context.
Yeah like I said, i'm totally ok with them not following through on making Yosuke gay (or to be more accurate bisexual). The fact that they even considered it is extremely interesting to me at least, and it shows the potential of it being in the next game.
I won't deny that. It's nowhere near the same realm as Yu X Yosuke though, haha!
Don't worry, the Yosuke army is literally invincible. We have all of Japan on our side.
I agree with Kaneko, actually. Maya feels a bit too big sistery to me, and Lisa's affection always felt more like a phase she'd get over eventually.
Real talk: Eikichi>Junpei>Yosuke. But they're all pretty awesome. This series has the best bros.
I need to finish EP and P3. ;_;
Guys pls. We all know the entire Investigation Team is Yu's personal Harem of Honies. All of them. Every last one is Yusexual.
If the game had gone for gay/bi relationships, we ALL know that all we'd get would be never ending Investigation Team harem fanfiction and fanart. Then people would complain about how everything revolves around Narukami more than it already does.
Long story short, I don't think they could have handled it well enough. Narukami is already da man(not Da Man, but da man), giving him access to the male party members would just be the waifu power level equivalent of Aleph from SMT2 or the Demi Fiend from Nocturne. OP as all hell, and the writing would probably go to hell in a handbasket.
If the game had gone for gay/bi relationships, we ALL know that all we'd get would be never ending Investigation Team harem fanfiction and fanart. Then people would complain about how everything revolves around Narukami more than it already does.
Long story short, I don't think they could have handled it well enough. Narukami is already da man(not Da Man, but da man), giving him access to the male party members would just be the waifu power level equivalent of Aleph from SMT2 or the Demi Fiend from Nocturne. OP as all hell, and the writing would probably go to hell in a handbasket.
Sorry, that was a bit of miswording on my part. I just wasn't so much a fan of Atlus raising hard questions that a lot of teenagers honestly have to deal with, like, sexuality, and gender identity, with Kanji and Naoto, and the game's never really brave enough to actually answer them. It stops just short of the finish line, and even starts doubling back on some of those questions. It's just a bit unfortunate. It can even get a bit uncomfortable, and I'm mostly thinking of more than a few occasions in Naoto's romance social link and related events.
Look within yourself. You know it to be true.
EDIT: To elaborate...Narukami more or less brings life to the town, from the player's perspective. He's a catalyst that makes everything exciting. Literally all of Persona 4 ends up revolving around him except for the actual murder mystery, but it becomes about the Investigation Team(namely, him) by the end anyways. Narukami is Da Fucking Man in the context of P4, and all of the cast seem to know it. Yosuke's
praising you left and right, Chie readily looks up to you, Yukiko always defers to you for just about anything, Teddie worships you just short of literally, Kanji considers you the person who changed him, Rise fawns all over you, and Naoto more or less considers you to be the closest person to her of the Investigation Team. You help them through their issues for all of them and are more or less the best friend of all of the Investigation Team members save Yukiko/Chie.
We also get semi-awkward scenes with just about every male party member anyways. It's not exactly hard to imagine what it'd be like if you ended up being able to date the male cast.
<----straight male
We also get semi-awkward scenes with just about every male party member anyways. It's not exactly hard to imagine what it'd be like if you ended up being able to date the male cast.
<----straight male
Jokes aside, I think that out of the 7 investigation team members, Kanji is the only one who harbors no romantic feelings for Yu whatsoever. He seems to have a older brother-younger brother dynamic between him, which is ironic.
Yeah. I don't have much issue with Kanji's S.Link, but Naoto's was definitely kind of weird for that reason. Sort of uncomfortable, even.
I love Kanji's relationship with Yu. It's adorable.
TurnipFritters
Member
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Hopefully 5 won't have the problem of everybody fangasming over the MC.
tintin1029
Member
That's the same way I think of Junpei. I hated him at first, but I started to love him later on.
Believe it or not, that's not even the full extent of the scene's ho-hay. You can have Yu show Teddie exactly what he means by romance, or something along those lines. At one point, it looks like Yu is going to embrace Teddie
...only to get interrupted by Dojima, hah!
And let's not forget the end of the quiz-game, where his "gift" to Yu is a smooch. (and he comically begins chasing Yu) I don't think Teddie fully understands the concept of sexuality, but I'm positive he'd go gay for sensei, heh.
tintin1029
Member
I can't handle this. This is amazing.
Jokes aside, I think that out of the 7 investigation team members, Kanji is the only one who harbors no romantic feelings for Yu whatsoever. He seems to have a older brother-younger brother dynamic between him, which is ironic.
If by closest, you mean closest to not harboring romantic feelings for Yu, then yep, I'd totally agree. But even Kanji has a scene...at some point. Can't really recall which or where it happens though
Oh, dang. Almost forgot about this stuff, haha. I can't really dispute you, then.
The January scene with Teddie was a fucking cocktease.
I see now. And I definitely agree. Kanji was a very big disappointment for me as a gay man.(Naoto's character arc still bugs me, but I accept that a lot of its intentions were lost in translation.) His story arc starts out promising but basically the moment that Persona pops up it has nowhere to go but down because they shift it out of focus and reduce it to mostly gag status (aside from the very sweet, if ambiguous, gesture he makes on the valentines day event, and that wasn't even in the original game!) All said I still love Kanji, but any time this whole shebang is mentioned it stings.
I feel like relegating the IT's character development to their respective social links ultimately hurt the game because once their shadows are out of the way, their character arcs get shoved aside by the main plot, and it doesn't really let the story make a substantive conclusion to their character arcs (except for Yosuke, admittedly. Even then a lot of that has to do with being Yu's #2.)
I hope they rectify that for Persona 5. Either by integrating the party member's social links into the plot like Teddie or just giving the party members more emphasis and screentime so it can have something resembling a legit ensemble cast.
I see now. And I definitely agree. Kanji was a very big disappointment for me as a gay man.(Naoto's character arc still bugs me, but I accept that a lot of its intentions were lost in translation.) His story arc starts out promising but basically the moment that Persona pops up it has nowhere to go but down because they shift it out of focus and reduce it to mostly gag status (aside from the very sweet, if ambiguous, gesture he makes on the valentines day event, and that wasn't even in the original game!) All said I still love Kanji, but any time this whole shebang is mentioned it stings.
I feel like relegating the IT's character development to their respective social links ultimately hurt the game because once their shadows are out of the way, their character arcs get shoved aside by the main plot, and it doesn't really let the story make a substantive conclusion to their character arcs (except for Yosuke, admittedly. Even then a lot of that has to do with being Yu's #2.)
I hope they rectify that for Persona 5. Either by integrating the party member's social links into the plot like Teddie or just giving the party members more emphasis and screentime so it can have something resembling a legit ensemble cast.
TurnipFritters
Member
These are just amazing.
tbqh mako's doesn't really fit very well, but the rest are dope
That's their design as characters. They are welcoming and are sometimes avatars for the player since the main character can't speak. But they are given flaws so that the audience doesn't fully associate with them. Then, over time as you become more connected to your character, you help them overcome those flaws, at least a little.
Goddamn, I love crossovers.
P4 doesn't have that problem, but it doesn't stop people from bullshitting that it does. I expect the same for P5.
I judged a few of the characters early on, but you spend enough time with them and you realize they're all pretty great with very few exceptions.
Definitely. It's why I have mixed feelings about the shadows in P4. It's cool thematically, but it's kind of lazy writing when you have a dude to just spout everything wrong about yourself at you so you can go ahead and fix it. Feel like the approach could use more subtlety.
TL;DR for the people who are catching up this page
1)The joke about all of the P4 characters being attracted to MC on some level might not be so far off.
2) Persona has fantastic women. The best in gaming, imo.
1)The joke about all of the P4 characters being attracted to MC on some level might not be so far off.
2) Persona has fantastic women. The best in gaming, imo.
yeah i'm aware that some of those are wrong, heh
Yukiko seems like an odd choice for that line, but I agree with the sentiment! I can think of other female characters I like as much as the Persona gals in gaming, but Persona has a much higher concentration of great female characters (and great characters in general, really).
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Yeah, I pretty sure you could comfortably finish the game without leveling any more.
Man, QF to the motherfucking T.
I love that post. I think I always knew that, but it really sunk in once I got up to Maya and Yukino in P2. Atlus is so great in that regard.
I actually feel not put "lover" option for the bros is giving more freedom to the writer to shaping their relationship, like PK mentioning there's big bro dynamic between Kanji.
Its will be better if they do the same for the girls too actually, giving most of them option (or in P3 you must) dating them all is very cheap, and limiting possibilities for many scenario that could happen.
Now that I think about it most of romance S.Link is pretty bad, its just not feel earnest..
If they giving bi-sex option but still designing romance S.link like that then welp.. Its just double the number of bad S.Link.
Its will be better if they do the same for the girls too actually, giving most of them option (or in P3 you must) dating them all is very cheap, and limiting possibilities for many scenario that could happen.
Now that I think about it most of romance S.Link is pretty bad, its just not feel earnest..
If they giving bi-sex option but still designing romance S.link like that then welp.. Its just double the number of bad S.Link.
cj_iwakura
Member
Those are pretty much spot-on. And not just Persona, SMT in general has great female characters.
Wow, is this official?
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Sure, Whatever you say.
That was a little aggressive, sorry.
Look, if you can make a strong argument for that being the case, I would really love to hear it.
What we usually get is people who are (for whatever reason; usually a dislike of anime) just mad that the romance options are there. They either ignore the fact that they're options or they act like they're forced.
If you think P4 is a harem anime, that must be how you played it. (Not you specifically, of course.)
Word
We're honestly pretty luck in that regard. Most games struggle mightily with female characterization, but Persona/SMT manages to pull it off in stride. It's definitely not perfect, but I feel the sheer volume of fantastic & unique female characters (none of which fall into shitty tropes) really speaks to me. As a gamer, it's something that i've wanted in most games, so i'm glad that Atlus decided to step up to the plate and address that.
PS: I'm glad you got to experience the awesomeness that is Maya / Yukino first hand.
It's pretty much an immutable fact, but I don't consider it a bad thing. The game's very foundation lies on being "the center of attention" and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Nah, My problem is that you're the center of everyone's attention and the characters' world tended to revolve around you.
This is the reason I liked the fact that P3 characters were usually off doing their own thing.
If you played P3 first, yeah it's a little strange. With P4, you have social links with everyone (in P3 you didn't have it with a lot of the males until P3P) so the game feels like you are part of everyone's lives in an extremely close fashion. In P3, they had to develop the other characters outside of your influence because you couldn't S.Link with them.
Personally I really liked being able to have social links with my entire party, so for me it was worth that weird feeling of being such a central factor in everyone's lives. The MC is the window to the world. It's through him that I learned what made those characters tick. It takes a bit of suspension of belief, but in the end I think it leads to stronger individual writing for the characters.
Lord Scrambles
Member
Yeah out of the four girls in the party Yukiko felt like the one who threw herself at Yu most often or second most often (with Rise taking first place or close second.)
Also no Chie? c'mon
other than that its really fucking good lol
all joking aside I agree with this to a certain degree. Atlus puts so much time and effort to make these characters, these people that seem as real as can be, yet to a certain extent they throw it away by having Y(o)u be this nigh-inhuman figure who everyone's lives revolve around, for a game series that makes the most realistic human relationship stories this is a huge non-sequitor. Having the MC be a sexual-lord that literally everyone whom he meets gets the tinglies in their nether-regions and the achies in their hearts for him is THE MOST unrealistic part of the series (even more so than the whole fighting monsters with medieval weapons and other monsters that live inside of you part.) I like what they did with Kanji. I think that instead of having more people fall for the MC it should be less, what if a straight woman denied the MC's love? (scandalous I know.) Sure you can add homosexual relationships in there, but make all relationships realistic, and not over-accentuated wish-fulfillment.
Makoto is the best silent MC in the series because he's a watcher not a solver, he watches people's problems and sure, he helps them anyway he can, but more often than not they figure out what was wrong with their lives by themselves. He is also not as elevated as Yu when it comes to his relationships meaning when he does something wrong he gets realistic repercussions (although easily avoidable) for his immoral actions, and he is not as deified
wording intentional
/rant
... You're referencing me, aren't you?
I'm not mad about anything at all. It's just...everything about P4 really does seem to revolve around Narukami in contrast to P3, which has the characters more or less doing their own thing and Makoto is more or less one of many, up until the two thirds point anyways. And all the characters' worlds do seem to revolve around Yu. He is the miracle man that more or less solves everything(and I like that, because that seems to be what Atlus was going for). Romantically though, yes, Yu makes the sun rise and the birds chirp for the female cast. Like in Persona 3, Yu is more or less the only option for the female cast(outside of Kanji) and given male dating options, it'd probably be the same thing.
My post about the fanfiction and fanart wasn't entirely serious .-.
Then fair enough and I agree with PK's stance on the matter. The assertion that everyone in the game is in love with Yu grates on me. It's a garbage claim. But now I see what you meant.
... You're referencing me, aren't you?
Dude, if I'm referencing anyone specific they don't post in this thread anywhere near as often as you do. You're fine.
One thing that I'd like to see is other people hooking up. Like, what if two people in your party ended up in a relationship during the course of the game? I think even touches like that could add a lot to a more natural feel in the relationships. And I second people saying fewer, more considered relationships.
- Status